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Since every team plays at a different pace, this is one of the few ways to balance them all out...

Discussion in 'Archive: The Arena' started by Armenian_Jedi, Dec 14, 2006.

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  1. Armenian_Jedi

    Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 14, 2003
    to see who's really the best, offensively and defensively.

    PPS.

    Points Per Shot. How many points your team scores for every shot they take and how many points they allow for every shot the other team makes. Here it is for every team. OFF=Offense DEF=Defense DIFF=Differential

    that's for like... MASTERPRENN and a few others. :p

    EASTERN CONFERENCE


    Atlantic

    New Jersey OFF: 1.28 DEF: 1.22 DIFF: 0.06
    Boston OFF: 1.28 DEF: 1.27 DIFF: 0.01
    New York OFF: 1.25 DEF: 1.26 DIFF: -0.01
    Toronto OFF: 1.18 DEF: 1.22 DIFF: -0.04
    Philadelphia OFF: 1.21 DEF: 1.29 DIFF: -0.08


    Central

    Detroit OFF: 1.23 DEF: 1.21 DIFF: 0.02
    Cleveland OFF: 1.21 DEF: 1.20 DIFF: 0.01
    Chicago OFF: 1.23 DEF: 1.28 DIFF: -0.05
    Indiana OFF: 1.20 DEF: 1.24 DIFF: -0.04
    Milwaukee OFF: 1.24 DEF: 1.30 DIFF: -0.06


    Southeast

    Orlando OFF: 1.26 DEF: 1.23 DIFF: 0.03
    Washington OFF: 1.26 DEF: 1.27 DIFF: -0.01
    Miami OFF: 1.19 DEF: 1.22 DIFF: -0.03
    Atlanta OFF: 1.21 DEF: 1.25 DIFF: -0.04
    Charlotte OFF: 1.15 DEF: 1.22 DIFF: -0.07



    WESTERN CONFERENCE


    Northwest

    Utah OFF: 1.28 DEF: 1.30 DIFF: -0.02
    Denver OFF: 1.26 DEF: 1.24 DIFF: 0.02
    Minnesota OFF: 1.21 DEF: 1.17 DIFF: 0.04
    Seattle OFF: 1.23 DEF: 1.29 DIFF: -0.06
    Portland OFF: 1.25 DEF: 1.28 DIFF: -0.03


    Pacific

    Phoenix OFF: 1.34 DEF: 1.20 DIFF: 0.14
    LA Lakers OFF: 1.32 DEF: 1.25 DIFF: 0.07
    Golden State OFF: 1.27 DEF: 1.25 DIFF: 0.02
    LA Clippers OFF: 1.21 DEF: 1.22 DIFF: -0.01
    Sacramento OFF: 1.24 DEF: 1.26 DIFF: -0.02


    Southwest

    San Antonio OFF: 1.27 DEF: 1.15 DIFF: 0.12
    Dallas OFF: 1.27 DEF: 1.23 DIFF: 0.04
    Houston OFF: 1.23 DEF: 1.14 DIFF: 0.09
    NO/Oklahoma City OFF: 1.14 DEF: 1.21 DIFF: -0.07
    Memphis OFF: 1.21 DEF: 1.27 DIFF: -0.06



    So according to this the teams that give up the fewest points for every shot the other team takes are:

    Houston: 1.14
    San Antonio: 1.15
    Minnesota: 1.17
    Phoenix: 1.20
    Cleveland: 1.20
    NO/Oklahoma City: 1.21
    Detroit: 1.21



    And the teams that score the most points for every shot they take are:


    Phoenix: 1.34
    LA Lakers: 1.32
    New Jersey: 1.28
    Boston: 1.28
    Utah: 1.28
    Golden State: 1.27
    San Antonio: 1.27
    Dallas: 1.27


    Phoenix and Cleveland aren't really known for defense but there they are taking up the number 4 spot on that list. Denver is the second highest scoring team in the NBA but aren't in the top 8 for points per shot, which surprised me.

    The only team that's top 5 in offense and defense is Phoenix. :)
     
  2. Baron-Soontir-Fel

    Baron-Soontir-Fel Jedi Knight star 5

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    Jan 15, 2005
    Hmm, while that is interesting, you cannot discount turnovers on offense: that explains why New Jersey is so high on the offensive list but in reality is an above-average scoring team known for cold droughts when they can't make shots and turn the ball over.

    This just looks like stat-fishing to stroke your Suns.
     
  3. Armenian_Jedi

    Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 14, 2003
    Yeah I was looking for points per possession but couldn't find it anywhere. the only site I know that gives me that stat only updates at season's end.

    So I had to settle for when team's actually shoot the ball.



    EDIT: And just for the record, I was tired of people saying Phoenix's defense is horrible when all they point out is the total amount of points per game they give up. And none of those people take into account the inflation of possessions and shots the Suns and their opponents take. I had to balance it out somehow and PPS and points per possession is the only way. :p
     
  4. New_York_Jedi

    New_York_Jedi Force Ghost star 6

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    Mar 16, 2002
    There is a stat like that Hollinger uses, that takes in account turnovers. It's offensive efficiency, which is points per 100 possessions, and defensive efficiency, which is points allowed per 100 possessions. Since it is based on possessions, not shots, turn overs count against you.

    Top five offensive efficiencys:
    Phx: 110.4
    Utah: 107.5
    Det: 107.3
    SA: 106.7
    GS: 106.6

    Top five Defensive:
    Houston: 95.2
    SA : 96.9
    Chicago: 98.3
    Minnesota: 99.3
    Cleveland: 100.0


    The lists are similiar with AJ's, though Detroit and Phx drop out of the top defensive teams (Detroit actually falls all the way to 23!).


    Oh, and Jersery is number 11th based on offensive efficiency.
     
  5. Baron-Soontir-Fel

    Baron-Soontir-Fel Jedi Knight star 5

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    Jan 15, 2005
    Heh, I was spot-on with my description of them as above-average. :p
     
  6. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jan 12, 2000
    PPS is a good stat, but Offensive/Defensive Efficiency is better because it factors in the TOs.

    Of course, most stats can be twisted to say absolutely anything.
     
  7. Armenian_Jedi

    Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 14, 2003
    yup, that's the stat I use. basketball-reference.com doesn't have this years stats up though, so I didn't know where to get it, so I had to settle for PPS.

    Where do you get yours from?
     
  8. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral JCC Baseball Draft/SWC Draft Commish star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

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    Jul 13, 2005
    Points Per Shot seems to give an advantage to teams that allow a lot of offensive rebounds, too. If a team misses three shots, grabs three offensive boards, and then makes their fourth shot, the PPS is pretty good, but I would argue that's not a very good defensive stretch. Offensive/Defensive Efficiency is a little better, but still not perfect.

    Stats, in general, are pretty meaningless without game film to accompany them, to put them in proper context.
     
  9. New_York_Jedi

    New_York_Jedi Force Ghost star 6

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    Insider section of ESPN, John Hollinger has an area where he does tons of statistical analysis. Its from his area.
     
  10. Armenian_Jedi

    Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 14, 2003
    don't you have to pay for that crap? [face_plain]


    and where are the Suns currently in defensive efficiency? Cuz I know the last two seasons they've been 17th and 16th which makes them middle of the road, but I've been looking everywhere for this season and can't find it. :(
     
  11. New_York_Jedi

    New_York_Jedi Force Ghost star 6

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    Mar 16, 2002
    eh, yeah, you either have to pay for it or subscribe to ESPN the magazine- you get access to those sections with the subrsciption.

    And the Suns are 16th this season.
     
  12. Armenian_Jedi

    Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 14, 2003
    good. That way I can stick to my argument that a worse defense has won it all in this decade.

    The 2001 Lakers were ranked 21st in the league in defensive efficiency. :p
     
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