Discussion in 'Communications' started by toochilled, Oct 31, 2001.
Don't ya just hate logic.
Everyone would freak if Nathan was giving out passwords to edit profiles and word got out.
It seems pretty obvious that a major mistake was made. I would hope that action is taken to make sure such a mistake is not repeated.
Someone must have had the thought of whether his sig could be edited before all his posts were deleted. Someone must have known that it was possible for administrators to change members' profiles. Even if this could not have been done immediately, it would still not justify the action taken. Which is worse: giving a most likely insignificant number of people the opportunity to see private information that many others had already gotten access to, or deleting every post made by a great member of these forums? What was done hurts the JC as a whole and all of its members, not just one person.
Also, I think it would be a good idea for moderators to have the ability to edit members' profiles--at least the public part of their profiles. But that's an issue with Snowboards, and who knows if anything will ever get done there.
Again, technically, all he'd have to do is give you one password--his.
And again, I know that's not the point, but it is possible.
I editted my own post because in it I told Pyrus to change his signature. He refused to comply, and PMed a rude response to one of our mods when they asked him politely to remove it. Then, someone PMed me (I believe it was MaidenLumpÃ©, so feel free to ask her to verify this) and informed my that my post was drawing attention to Pyrus' sig, which still remained unchanged. I then used the "mod edit" to remove that line from my message.
Since it was obvious Pyrus was trying to cause trouble, we banned him and I removed all his posts. He acted like a troll, and got a troll's treatment. I was the one to delete all his posts, and I accept responsibility for doing so.
It was around 3:00pm (after the whole Pyrus business was over) that I looked at my Administrator options at Senator Dzrekpo Amegnran's prompting and realized that I could see another user's password. By this post you can see that I wasn't familiar enough with my controls at the time, and didn't have a clue how to log in as another user, though I knew that it was possible, somehow.
To be quite frank, the administative options have been rather intimidating to me from day one. I'm much more comfortable with them now, but I have been excercising extreme caution and only using them when absolutely necessary. I have no desire to do anything that could mess up the boards.
The deletion of Pyrus' posts was a regrettable action, but at the time, it was the only one I was comfortable doing.
I hope that clears everything up! If you have any further questions, PM me. Thanks!
One more thing...if any of you are still suspicious as to why we were so panicked about having "Mod Squad" breached, it was because it contains many troll-killing secrets and it was imperative that they remain secrets. As soon as trolls know some of the techniques we use to defeat them, they will start to find ways to circumvent them.
Sorry this post was so long. Thanks for making the time to read it all the way through!
EDIT: Thanks, MaidenLumpÃ©!
nathan edited the post because he'd pointed out pyrus' sig, and i PMed him telling him it was just drawing more attention to it.
edit: ya beat me to it!
Okay, then by that logic, by 20 minutes before discovering his ability to see users' passwords, Pyrus's posts still hadn't been removed. That 20 minute window is pretty tiny, so I find it hard to believe that all of this happened in those 20 minutes: Nathan edited his post that pointed out Pyrus's sig, the decision to nuke Pyrus's posts was made, they were all nuked, Nathan discovered his ability to see passwords, and typed up and posted that lengthy response in SDA's thread.
Still seems a bit fishy to me.
I would never feel comfortable with the option of removing all of Pyrus's posts, no matter what the circumstances. That is an extreme action that is only appropriate for a member who is an obvious troll and has done nothing but cause trouble, while contributing nothing of value to the forums. But it's too late to change things now...
I made the decision to delete Pyrus' post on my own, so no time went into prior discussion with the other mods. Like I said, I accept responsibility for that action.
I was being swamped by a lot of emergencies because of the security breach, so many of my actions have been way too hasty. I will readily admit that.
EDIT: Jeff, I know it's a drastic action. That's why Pyrus has been the only user I've ever used that option on.
If Pyrus hadn't acted as he did, I wouldn't have given him "troll treatment". He blatantly disobeyed our request and had to suffer the consequences. I am deeply sorry that this affected you guys, but like Jeff said, it's already been done and is irreversable.
So you still edited, deliberated, nuked, researched, discovered the ability to see passwords, and posted about it in those 20 minutes? (I assume the deliberation had to happen in the middle, because there would've been no reason to edit your post if you already knew you'd be nuking all of his shortly.) Wow, you're fast.
Also, if you were planning on researching the ability to see passwords, why didn't you wait the extra few minutes before taking such a drastic action and see if you could've handled it any other way?
Remind me never to vote you into a position of real power, Nathan.
Yes, I deleted Pyrus' posts even when I knew that it was physically possible for me to log in as him, though I had never logged in as anyone else beforehand. It was an unwise decision on my part and you have my apologies, once again. I did not consult the other moderators, so I am the only person to blame for the deletion of those posts.
Master_Hydeck, I don't blame you!
I must be the only one not bent out of shape about my posts.
Unless you've ever been in a situation like Nathan is now, perhaps you should give him a bit more leeway when these sort of things happen.
just like the leeway you gave Max Veers when he first became an admin?
What, over the wisdom of appointing someone then suspected of hacking Ezboards a moderator?
Well then, if he's going to become one of the 3 administrators here, he should know what he's doing from the start. NO DOUBLE STANDARDS FOR ONCE.
"YOU WILL KNEEL BEFORE MY GIGANTIC BUTTOCKS!"
That custom title right their shows why it was good to have him as an admin. SC admins use there power to make that place funny, and occasionally to keep the knobs out.
That was Kerry who did that custom title I believe.
And it was in bold.
I don't see why questions of "double standards" are being tossed around here. This hack attack brought out a lot of stuff that was meant to remain private, whether they were personal stuff, vents, or JC moderator discussions. Nathan did what he thought was appropriate under these difficult circumstances.
Well Someone is hacking in the Project Mayhem at the SC so really we are being hacked too
check your vert's thread in mod squad called OK, raise your hands...
and see how anti social we are and want to cause trouble :rolleyes
About a week ago, I complained about the fact that teenagers here were making the place inhospitable for the older members, and suggested that JCC be split into two forums, over 18 and under 18. Several of the old members showed up and seemed to think my idea was not bad. Throughout the thread, Vertical informed us that a change was on the way, and we "would not be disappointed".
The change included creating the "Senate Floor" for debating "serious topics", which basically just doubled the problems there were before. More importantly, NathanDahlin was made the Admin of the entire JC Forums. NathanDahlin is 15 friggin' years old, and last night he obliterated the record of Pyrus, one of the oldest members here.
It's a true thing of beauty. It seems clear that the general idea here is that the "New Golden Age" spoken of in that previous thread meant trying to turn this place into the Disney World of the web. In order to do that, first you have to sweep the bums off the street- and that means all these annoying old folks who don't walk around pooping in their diapers and saying "look at the pretty red button- I think I'll push it".
The "double standard" debates continues because there IS a double standard, there continues to be a double standard and nothing is being done about it. No matter what new forums you create, until you fix that problem there can be no "Golden Age."