Since the Pyrus topic is closed.....

Discussion in 'Communications' started by toochilled, Oct 31, 2001.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. AJA Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 1998
    star 4
    I wouldn't say intelligence so much as responsibility and good judgement.
  2. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    As far as I know, our past admins don't even come to this site anymore. darthcleo and Joanzia both cut themselves off from the JC citing real life reasons.
  3. Darth_Pumpkinhead Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2000
    Yes, Cleo and Joanzia somewhat jumped ship suddenly, so they couldn't train the new admins. It's a "let's see... what does this button do?" type of a thing. Snowboards doesn't have any sort of a FAQ for the moderator functions; I doubt that it would for the admin functinos.

    --Darth Pumpkinhead
  4. Spy_vs_Spy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2000
    star 1
    Could you cite specific examples of poor 'responsibility' or lack of 'good judgement' from all the current mods? I mean, making baseless claims isn't exactly convincing me, AJA.
  5. AJA Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 1998
    star 4
    The incident on which this thread is based is a pretty good example.
  6. Spy_vs_Spy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2000
    star 1
    Of *one* problem. You overwhelm me.
  7. AJA Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 1998
    star 4
    Alright, I'll spell it out. TF.N itself grew considerably with the release of the new films. My impression is that in the process, Scott Chitwood and Josh Griffin, who I think probably get more criticism from some fans and other webmasters than they deserve, delegated authority to some people who were a negative influence on the site, and specifically on the message boards. They gave a lot of power and authority to individuals who had/have little to no understanding of either the site's original loyal visitors, or even of Star Wars fans in general. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them weren't particularly Star Wars fans at all, but rather "dot-commers" who thought TF.N offered them some kind of opportunity. Thus, a lot of the true Star Wars fans who used to post here have been driven off to create splinter boards, and all that's left is a bunch of kids who wandered over from AOL.

    Then again I could be completely off-base, since I'm just a lowly member of the "unwashed masses" who stumbled onto this place a few years back because I was hyped up about a new Star Wars movie coming out.
  8. Lil Wookie Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 3
    But we all make mistakes and bad judgement calls.

    Hell, I drove another Mod completely insane once! Really! A Mod named Paul went absolutely nuts after a fight with me...and that fight was because I made a mistake and royally screwed up. I still consider myself a good admin, and have had several requests to come back, but I screwed up.

    I don't think the quality of the mods have gone down. I think the difficulty of their job has increased. This place is bigger...and yes, the crowd seems to be younger...so they have more to deal with.

    Seriously though, except for minor stuff I don't see myself doing anything differently. I might be more mellow but thats about it. I honestly think they are doing a good job.

    WHat I think the problem you are seeing, AJA, is that this board is changing. I don't mean its changing for the worse, or that its changing for the better, but it is changing...changing from what you are used to. However, this board would change no matter who the mods were. Thats just the nature of things.
  9. AJA Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 1998
    star 4
    The whole point is that when you recognize change coming, you have to decide how you're going to deal with it. I'm saying the expansion was handled poorly, which is not hard to understand given the circumstances. However, if you want to improve things, as they seem to have been saying they want to, then promoting a teenager to run the message boards and having him obliterate one of the oldest members several days later is a pretty poor way to start.
  10. Lil Wookie Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 3
    Forget about him being a teenager. Paradox was a teenager and he did an outstanding job. Did a better job than I ever did or Jasman ever did (NOT saying Jasman did a bad job...) Parasox kicked butt around here and I greatly respected him for it. Of all the Mods he was the most fair. So forget about him being a teenager, its not a big deal.

    AS for him erasing those posts...Nobody is denying it was a bad judgement call. Get over it. Because all of us have made bad judgement calls. Ok, so he has strike one against him, right? Give the guy a chance.

    Besides, this is all as much Pyrus's fault as it is Nathan's. Why was he so stupid as to have that freakin' link in his signature? Man, I might have over reacted to.

    And ya know, the mods here never really had control over this board. The board is as the board is and will do as it will. We always just went with the flow. We would stop flame wars, edit foul language and boot out the trolls, but other than that we just sat back and enjoyed the ride.
  11. AJA Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 1998
    star 4
    I'm saying it's just a symptom of a larger problem. I don't have my life invested in this place, so I try to be as respectful as possible when I post here, but I've spent enough time here to know that this place has taken a SEVERE turn for the worse, and the mods, whoever they happened to be at the time, sat idly by and watched it happen. If they really wanted to fix this place up, and make it what it was in the first place- a haven for serious Star Wars fans, I believe they could do it. Unfortunately, I think what they're primarily concerned with is getting hits.
  12. Lil Wookie Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 3
    Ok, AJA, whenever I hear statements like that, I always have one question. There is a lot of things the Mods could do? List them!

    Oh, and while I am at it, I just want to say the senate was a kick ass idea, I think the Mods did a great job in setting that up.
  13. AJA Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 1998
    star 4
    I said it several weeks ago, and I said it before in this thread, but I'll say it again- instead of what they did, which was to create one forum for "serious topics" and leave JCC as it is, they should have split JCC into two forums, one for those over 18 and one for those under 18. Creating the Senate forum does not address the real problem, which is a lot of high-schoolers driving off the older members- in fact, it makes things worse- it creates one forum where supposedly "mature" topics are discussed in a thoroughly antiseptic manner, and leaves JCC as an even more useless waste of time than it was before.

    People come for the Star Wars, they stay for the Community. What they did effectively removes the Community aspect from the forums.
  14. bright sith Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 1999
    star 5
    If what was done is irreversable, then that's that, as unfortunate as it is. What I question, however, is why the big fuss over a link? If I'm wrong, please correct me, but when does the JC have a rule to prohibit someone putting up a link that is to another board which isn't inappropriate in its nature? Heck, why does a board that most of us don't know come into play in the JC? From what I've heard, it was a private mod discussion forum. So Pyrus put up a link to it, can't you make it private? And oh, doesn't the JC have that kind of a forum right now, too? Quite simply, I don't understand, whether it being the SC or Refuge, how they take such an important role in the JC, and it doesn't matter if it is a board containing mods are not. It's off the JC, if one feels their privacy being invaded, deal with it off boards, and put on a tighter lock.
  15. jadesaber2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 2000
    star 5
    It's my understanding that the link in Pyrus's sig was to a site that was hosting hacked pages from the Mod Squad Forum here and several Refuge forums. Mod Squad Forum. JC. Private. Hacking into a private forum, copying pages, and putting them onto a public site is very inappropriate.
  16. PreacherBoy Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 1998
    star 5
    AJA, Lil Wookie, jasman, and Vertical: Thank you for this enlightening conversation.

    Missninfan: [face_mischief] [face_blush] [face_mischief]

    Okay let me get this thing started. I'll admit that I had a LOT of issues with ND at first. I'm honestly surprised that most of that info wasn't released in the leaks. It wasn't just his age, because like Lil Wookie mentioned, Paradox was a very special gift to this forum. He would be my first pick for the JC Admin position, if he was currently available for the post. The main reason that I had was one of a security aspect, and the past few days has shown that beyond a doubt, the JC needs a little more of that. The only active Mod/Manager that would fulfill my current requirements is Padme Bra. He and I got out to what you could call a "rough start" but agreements have been reached and at least I can sit at the same dinner table, without leaping at him with the salad fork.

    AJA, don't worry too much about ND. I've learned that while ND might have a few lessons not learned, he is a very quick learner, and has a very good heart. I hope he proves my initial worries to be delusional paranoia. I've decided to humor the current situation, to follow the leadership as I should, and hope for the best. You should too. Nothing will change if we just point out flaws instead of offering real solutions to problems or fill in the cracks with a little caulk.
  17. obi_wan_kanathan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2001
    star 4
    AJA. While I agree with you that there are more immature teenagers then adults, I don't beleve that spliting the board in two would solve any problems. There are many teenagers on this board, (including myself 8-} ) that are extreamly mature and post very intelligent topics. Second, there are many adults that are extreamly immature.

    It doesn't matter what you do to these boards, there will always be jerks, trolls, and immature people posting here. These people always find a way around things while mature posters will just find somewhere else to post their thoughts.

    I also don't know how you would enforce an age limit on these boards. Using credit cards wouldn't help. If this happened, I would just ask my dad to let me on with his credit card. No matter how secure something is, there is always a way around it. And sadely, the people that get around it are almost always looking for trouble.
  18. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    hmmm it was my understanding that Nathan could have a drivers license (atleast in certain parts of america) you can fly a plane if your 14 in germany for crying out loud!

    what does age have to do with it?

    And it is also my understanding that Pyrus's signature would have been attached to EVERY SINGLE POST HE EVER MADE!

    not that I think it was a good decision but I can certainly see why one would delete them in the hurry of the moment.

    also remember people this is an INTERNET board we come here for fun. nobody is getting paid for this (atleast the mods aren't!)

    People have admitted there mistakes now it's time to move on and forget.
  19. toochilled Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 2000
    star 5
    Hmm, I think, perhaps, this thread has run it's course.

    {hey, if I were a mod ;) then I could close it}

    To summarise: It was an accident, and a learning experience :)



    Since I'm feeling generous too........

    Nathan You can change the mod's passwords.
    To prevent future instances of weak password attacks I suggest the following.

    1) Get a password generator {generous tc has put one for you here
    {right click...save as...}
    2} Change the Mod and Admin passwords to randomly generated passwords.
    3} Remove email address' from the mod profile so that the 'forgot password' option cannot be used.
    4} Mail out the new passwords.
    5} Do not allow mods/ admins to change their passwords, upon threat of demotion.
    6} Rotate passwords quarterly.

    Now, if you want to put a couple of hacks into your software you can make things even easier, - but for the moment the above will / should keep you secure.
  20. epic Ex Mod / RSA

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 1999
    star 7
    AJA, your general hate of teenagers is quite apparent. What happened? Did a bunch of them throw eggs at your house last night of something?

    Don't grow up too fast.
  21. PreacherBoy Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 1998
    star 5
    toochilled- Thanks for the recommendation but there is a certain amount of security with *not* letting the general public how we handle password distribution and resets. ND has plenty of good Admins that can assist him on security issues, and if you don't mind we'd like to keep that in our little circle.
  22. toochilled Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 2000
    star 5
    No problem preacherboy, you know that's what microsoft said when they were informaed of a huge hole in IIS. They didn't remove / post a fix for an eternity and sites still get hacked because of it.

    Please excuse my ignorance Preacherboy*, but please explain to my how allowing the public to see what I have outlined above would impact upon such a policy if it were implemneted?

    Aditionally is it not preferential to be as open in these things as posible? As an example to support my argument I could easilly pick either the decss dvd coding or the recent sdms music watermarking situations..


    *Sorry everyone for my sarcastic tone but I specify system security for a living and do not apreciate such a curt and un-discursive response as given by preacherboy.
  23. PreacherBoy Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 1998
    star 5
    It was an honest and polite response. If you want me to discuss this with you further I recommend you chill out a bit.
  24. AJA Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 1998
    star 4
    epic, I don't think I'm alone in this feeling (See here). I don't hate teenagers, I just feel that the forums have been flooded with them, and older members have been driven off as a result. Like it or not, there is a wide difference in viewpoint between those who have graduated from HS and those who have not.

    EDIT- I know "campaigning" is heavily frowned upon, but I've been here so long I don't give a crap. I should be a mod.
  25. PreacherBoy Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 1998
    star 5
    Yeah, I think you should be too.

    One day we will both rise and destroy everyone, AJA.

    More pointless time wasting, indeed. [face_mischief]
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