PT Sith Exposed: Evacuation of the Jedi Temple/Warning to the Jedi

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Charlie512, Apr 24, 2013.

Moderators: heels1785, Seagoat
  1. Charlie512 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 1
    Once, the Jedi knew that the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic who had absolute control over a clone army was an evil Sith Lord...

    Why didn't they take cautionary measures to save themselves from the very great threat the Sith and the Clone Army presented to them?

    The Jedi knew that that Palpatine (being a Sith) could and would go after them at any moment and would most likely use the clones to do this. So why didn't the Jedi (a) evacuate the Temple (b) warn the Jedi Generals (c) anything other than what they did (such as call all Jedi back, lockdown the temple, and form a defense strategy)?

    Is it not pretty much standard procedure to lockdown/evacuate/ensure the safety of any parties when there's a direct threat to them from any source. Seems pretty basic.
    kubricklynch likes this.
  2. mes520 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    In the ROTS book, the temple was being placed on lockdown, as Anakin was trying to leave to go to the Palpatine's office
  3. Lumiyas_Head Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2007
    star 2
    Jedi ignorance.

    They had no idea how far Palpatine's reach had spread. Who could have imagined that the Clones could have been turned en masse against them in a single stroke? And yes, the Temple was placed on lockdown but since no one knew of Anakin's turn he killed the Gatekeeper and pretty much sauntered in for playtime with the rest of the 501st.
  4. Vthuil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 5
    I think the films make it pretty clear that the PT Jedi were... rather overconfident.
  5. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    Palpatine was in control of the Republic Army and they knew he would strike back against the Jedi and they did put the temple on lockdown. However it is true the smart thing would have been for the Council to also warn the other Jedi spread across the galaxy to watch their own backs as their clone units may turn against them. I guess Windu was simply arrogant in assuming that he and the other Masters would deal with Palpatine and there would be no need to disrupt the other Jedi on the front lines.
  6. Darth Dominikkus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2013
    star 3
    Their overconfidence was their weakness, to quote Luke in ROTJ. Windu was an arrogant and narrow-minded Jedi, he should have brought more with him to arrest Palpatine more successfully. I also think that an evacuation of the Jedi temple as well as a lock down would have been very very helpful. The idea of notifying Jedi in foreign territory would have been smart as well. But hey, who needs all of those precautions when you can just take four Jedi to arrest the champion of evil?
  7. Ringo_DeathStarr Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2011
    To be honest I completely agree with Dredalus but just to play devils advocate - it had been a long long time since Jedi had to deal with Sith. So Windu may not have realised what a big deal it actually was?
    Jarren_Lee-Saber and Lady_Misty like this.
  8. Darth Dominikkus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2013
    star 3
    That's very true. It was over a millennium since they last dealt with the Sith, so their vision was plagued by this new presence and their attitudes toward it were probably more on the confident side.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  9. MRCynical Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2008
    star 1
    I think they thought that the clone units in the field would stick with their commanders, and that the only immediate threat posed by the clones was from the Coruscant garrison that reported to Palpatine personally.
  10. ILNP Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2011
    star 1
    You're premise is based on hindsight and as such is flawed. Mace and the other 3 Jedi Masters did not believe that they would fail and as such did not believe the other Jedi were in danger. Also, the Jedi did place the Temple on lockdown (I know this fact is from the EU and some people on here don't like the EU but it doesn't contradict anything from the movies so i'm gonna use it). A) Where are they suppose to evacuate too? If all they do is leave the Temple then their still on a hostile planet with a Sith Lord and the huge army he commands. If they leave the planet they will have to face the fleet protecting Coruscant (which presumately is pretty big given that they've just beat back a major enemy invasion). B) Every second spent trying to reach every Jedi General is a second in which Palpatine/Sidious could potentially make an escape or prepare a trap or ambush for any Jedi sent after him. If the Jedi succeed (which again they truly believe they will) then failing to inform all the Jedi Generals right away will have no consequences. C) How is recalling all the Jedi suppose to help them? They're scattered across the galaxy. It would obviously take some time for them to make their way back to the Temple right? If they had recalled all the Jedi and the arrest attempt (or assassination) had succeeded it's not unlikely that some military confusion/disaster/reverses would have resulted from the complete loss of the Grand Armies leadership. Such confusion/disaster/reverses would have inevitably resulted in needless deaths should the arrest attempt (or assassination) had succeeded.
  11. Charlie512 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 1
    They had fought a Sith just a bit less than 15 years ago.

    But anyways, let's leave the Sith part out then as I don't think it was what allowed Palpatine to destroy the Jedi.

    Let's say Chancellor Palpatine isn't a Sith per say however he is still a very evil person who wants to destroy the Jedi.
    Given his position of power he could still exterminate the Jedi since he has ultimate authority over the Clones.

    If by some chance, he was able to evade capture by the Jedi he would still be a very dangerous threat.

    And that's what ends up happening. Palpatine destoying the Jedi had more to do with him being Chancellor than being a Sith.

    So it seems like you're arguing that the Jedi didn't know how to deal with evil people in power (Sith or no Sith). Is that right?
    Last edited by Charlie512, Apr 25, 2013
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  12. Sitara Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 3
    TBH It wouldn't have mattered if Mace had taken 100 Jedi Masters and Knights with him, they would still have been unsuccessful. The reason for that is the OT. Sidious appears in EP 5 and 6, where he is killed by Vader.

    If the OT did not exist and the movies were made sequentially, Jar Jar could have potentially killed Sidious. (actually it would probably have been either Obi Wan or Yoda)
  13. Darth Dominikkus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2013
    star 3
    Well first, the scene in TPM when Qui Gon and Obi-wan are talking to the council about Qui Gon's encounter with Maul, they say that the sith have been extinct for over a millennium. That's why I said that. And I guess you could say that. I mean, that's what the movies portray. They had no clue that an evil person in power wanted to destroy them, and it ended up happening.
  14. Darth Dominikkus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2013
    star 3
    Well yeah. The story forces Lucas to have the Jedi wiped out, and he did just that.
  15. Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    "Then our worst fears have been realized."

    It sounds like he thinks it's a big deal.

    Poor Dooku, gets no love... :_|
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Apr 26, 2013
  16. SweetZombieJesus Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 2
    The Jedi didn't know any of this because they were idiots. They did not plan for contingencies. They basically wasted all their time from TPM being unprepared idiots.
    TOSCHESTATION and Lady_Misty like this.
  17. SweetZombieJesus Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 2
    Not only should he have brought more Jedi with him to arrest Palpatine it should have been done in public and included a presentation of evidence to the Senate. They didn't even bother to think about appearances and public opinion.
    Last edited by SweetZombieJesus, Apr 28, 2013
  18. SlashMan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 4
    Yeah, I guess it was a miscalculation on Mace's part; he didn't want to waste a minute more than he needed to. Then again, he did bring three very skilled Jedi with him (by all previous accounts, at least). Mace was able to conduct himself well, but he would have never anticipated Anakin would return to betray him. So in essence, Mace's plan MAY have worked had it not been for Anakin.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber and ILNP like this.
  19. Minez01 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2005
    star 1
    Well really it kinda did - when Anakin interfered he had Palpatine on the ground and was ready to cut him in two. Whether he succeeded, well who knows. But it did seem as though he likely would have won from that point, so you're right.

    But yeah I also agree that the Jedi were completely unprepared and foolish. The first thing they should have done is send an urgent message to the entire senate, or something similar. And then confront Palpatine with the equivalent of a head-mounted webcam and every Jedi and republic soldier available.

    Also, come to think of it, does anyone know if any of the clone contingency orders included one that overrode Palpatine's orders if he turned out to be acting on his own interests or something like that? But yeah whole thing was pretty poorly handled. Or failing all of the above, just imprison Palpatine in the short term so Anakin doesn't do anything, and then kill him later when Padme has her kids.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  20. ILNP Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2011
    star 1
    Order 65
  21. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    The wording of Order 65:

    Order 65: In the event of either (i) a majority in the Senate declaring the Supreme Commander (Chancellor) to be unfit to issue orders, or (ii) the Security Council declaring him to be unfit to issue orders, and an authenticated order being received by the GAR, commanders shall be authorized to detain the Supreme Commander, with lethal force if necessary, and command of the GAR shall fall to the acting Chancellor until a successor is appointed or alternative authority identified as outlined in Section 6 (iv).
    Jarren_Lee-Saber and ILNP like this.
  22. Charlie512 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 1
    What bothers me is that this step seems to be pretty basic.

    The Jedi knew that Palpatine had control of the clones
    The Jedi knew that Palpatine was an evil Sith Lord
    Mace sensed that there was "a plot to destroy the Jedi".

    Ergo, Palpatine wants to destroy the Jedi.

    Warn the Jedi across the galaxy who are at risk at being backstabbed.
    And evacuate the Temple.

    They did nothing (except go give Palpatine an excuse to murder all of the Jedi).

    Why did Lucas have to make the Jedi lack any common sense.
    TOSCHESTATION likes this.
  23. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    They didn't know that Palpatine's "control of the clones" was such that he could order them to kill their Jedi commanders, and they would all (or at least, virtually all) obey.
  24. Charlie512 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 1
    Didn't they ever read the Orders programmed in the clones? Shouldn't that been info available to the Jedi?

    And in any case he is the Supreme Chancellor the Clones are under his control.
  25. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    In some sources they're not "programmed in" but a set of contingency orders, written at an unknown date (possibly the start of the war). Still strange as to why the Jedi didn't figure out what it was for- but it was buried amongst several other very similar ones.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
Moderators: heels1785, Seagoat