PT "Sith" Happens-- 10 Years After Its Release, How Does ROTS Hold Up?

Another in Yahoo.com's daily prequel-bashing article's by "writer's " i've never heard of.

 

The movie holds up exceptionally well. It still makes me cry.

Anakin was too young at age 9 to make such a decision. Luke was 19 . . . and probably too emotional at the time to make a similar decision.

 

You're welcome.

That said, just thought I’ll include this ROTS event that hopefully supports GL and how it all fits in inclusively with the OT and keeps ROTS fresh and pertinent for SW enthusiasts.

Anakin is looking down at Sidious has he unleashed the force lightning at Mace but the lightsaber absorbs and also bounces of the lightning onto Palpatine (Sidious) face. Seeing Anakin’s concerned face and the glare and light of the crossfire mix on him. It is his “father” figure getting pummeled and suffering the deflection of the lightning. Must add Hayden does a marvelous job in the scene.


Sidious shouts out “no no you will die” . This subsequently leads to Anakin cutting of Mace arm when he was about the strike the lethal blow to end the life of the Sidious the Sith Mastermind (and end of the Sith). Anakin thus feels he has failed “what have I done” It was this moment I recollected with startling realization ….




in ROTJ, Vader’s mask shows the glare of the lightning, being unleashed on his Son, who is getting pummeled by this onslaught with much pain and suffering. We can’t see Vader’s (Anakin’s) face but can only guess what’s going through his mind and only guess his countenance, then the Emperor (Sidious/Palpatine), before the third wave of lightning, says “now young Skywalker… you will die”. It is quite possible Anakin inside the mask has the countenance that is exemplified in the ROTS Anakin. But Anakin this time succeeds, signalling the end of the Sith.

I believe SW and it’s legacy and ROTS itself shall survive another 10 years.

MJ

 

i didn't take the two scene's that way. Anakin says "I Need Him ". I don't think he was really acting out of concern for Palpatine, but for Padme there.

 

That's confirmed by the novelization, Anakin intended to off Palpatine after he got the information to save Padme.

 

No, but Palpatine is a surrogate for Padme. The key to her life. The scenes are very similar.

 

Great posts -- especially Samnz and Cryogenic! Cryo -- you should really compile a best of Cryo posts and put them together in a book!

I just have a few thoughts to add.

Yahoo is a company that is desperate to remain relevant. Unlike Google or facebook, it is a dying company fearing it will go the way of AOL. In fact, most of these film fan sites aren't making any money either. The sole purpose of their content is to get views. They don't care how truthful or accurate that content is. If it will appeal to Internet geek hate culture or get a view even from someone who will totally disagree with what it says, then they'll write that article because views equal ad revenue. And a cursory overview of these sites suggests slamming films is an easy way to get views. Just look at the how the Internet has turned on TDKR, MoS, and now AoU is starting to get the hate. Yahoo is especially biased when it comes to Star Wars because Yahoo has an informal partnership with Disney/ABC, so they're even more likely to gravitate towards articles that echo the Disney company line.

I actually find it fun to deconstruct the logical inconsistencies of articles like this. Really, by the 3rd sentence, it's already already starting to fall apart. The author asserts that fans were greatly disappointed with the 1st 2 prequels, yet funnily enough, these greatly disappointed fans choose to dress up like Darth Maul and Anakin, characters from the PT? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

I particularly like to analyze the effects of audience expectations on the film-going experience, and her comment that people wanted to love the PT falls right into that territory. Instead of going into an indepth analysis of how those expectations might affect our viewing experience once again, a topic that can get pretty complicated, let's simply look at the audience that didn't have such pent-up expectations -- namely, kids. Well, most of the kids I knew when the PT was released thought the films were great, and the kids I know who are experiencing the PT for the first time today have the same reaction. Since Lucas's target audience for all the Star Wars films was 12-year-old boys (in fact, he feared ROTS would be the odd man out because of its dark tone), the reception of kids to the PT is not insignificant, and the kids who grew up with the PT, especially ROTS, have retained much of their affection for it, just as kids who grew up with the OT have. (Virtually every OT fanatic today was 20 or under when the OT came out.) Further, while the OT is great, there is dialogue, moments, and even full plot-lines that would have adults rolling their eyes if they were watching it for the first time. (The Imperials have the opportunity to shoot Han and co. at point blank range 3 times in ROTJ, and they choose not to; once, for some reason, they try to capture Han and Leia in mid-battle!) Stuff like that would be nitpicked to death by today's media geek Internet culture, but it has to be taken for what it is -- it was just meant to be fun. Star Wars has always been tonally "inconsistent" in that way. The serious and dramatic part was supposed to be Luke, Vader, and Palpatine on the DS2. Endor was supposed to be fun for kids. Vader's storming of the Tantive IV was supposed to be intimidating; 3PO, Artoo, the Jawas minutes later was meant to be silly. The first 2 PT films share the same tonal "inconsistencies" that most of the OT has. Nitpicking segments meant to appeal to kids is just silly. (Another much smaller example of expectations altering one's viewing experience: the author complains about Vader's "No-o-o!" However, the "No" in the original release of ROTS has been replaced by a shorter version on blu-ray. Perhaps an example of one's initial reaction biasing that person against what they expected to see.)

There's another thread going right now suggesting Anakin's fall was too fast, which seems to be an opinion this critic takes. I don't see that, and I think this author's article misses the point. She wants to watch ROTS as a stand-alone film, but Anakin's fall spreads the length of three films. He's taken from his mother, the person he's most attached to in the world, and when he returns to her 10 years later, he witnesses her die. Enraged, he slaughters an entire community of sand people. (It's so strange that people, like this critic, think Anakin's killing of the younglings is going too far; he already killed women and children in the last film and he wasn't even a Sith then!).

Then, when it comes to Anakin's fall in ROTS, a lot of people don't seem to get what's really going on. Sure, one way to do a storyline like this is to have events conspire to push a good man further and further down an immoral path. (BTW, where is the complex depiction of Michael Corleone as a good man in The Godfather? -- he was in the army, he doesn't want to be in the mafia, and his girlfriend seems nice -- not really indisputable evidence that Michael is a good man at his core, if you think about it.) Anakin's character arc is simply not the same as Michael's. Though having some similar elements, Anakin's arc in ROTS is not simply a slow descent. Rather, at the beginning of the ROTS, Anakin is already conflicted and ambivalent. He's certainly not evil, but he's not totally pure either. (Actually that sort of sounds like a 3-dimensional character, right?) He makes courageous and selfless decisions. Rejecting Obi-Wan's suggestion, Anakin saves him from the buzz droids on the way to Grievous's ship. Later, he disobeys Palpatine's order and takes Obi-Wan with them as they try to escape the ship. At the same time, after the prodding and then a command from Palpatine, who after all is pretty much the president of the universe and a father-figure to Anakin, Anakin does kill Dooku, and I think his reaction is an ambivalent and complex one. He knows he shouldn't have killed Dooku, and he feels some shame, but at the same time, he's not overwhelmed by the guilt, leaving Anakin confused at the same time, and perhaps a little ashamed that doesn't feel as guilty as he feels he should. At the same time, this is also another step towards the dark side, as Palpatine strokes his ego for acting as he did, and reminds him that this is in-keeping with his past behavior, specifically his slaughter of the sand people. At this point, Anakin is a mixture of positive and negative characteristics. He is angry, prideful, ambitious, arrogant, but also selfless, courageous, loving, and loyal, and many of these qualities are in conflict with one another, so it's not simply an arc that takes him from a good person to bad person. Rather, it is a character arc of someone who has conflicting impulses, and we see which of these impulses will win out. Perhaps many people came in with the expectation of the simple concept of a good man slowly becoming bad and they don't recognize what's really going on, but for me, Anakin's arc is a really interesting one -- with its competition of good and bad impulses going against one another. This critic clearly misses this aspect of Anakin's character arc.

To return to my original point, Anakin's fall also is far from too quick in my view. After killing Dooku, Anakin still displays admirable qualities -- risking his life for Obi-Wan. Then, when he learns of Padme's pregnancy, Anakin again shows conflict within him. At first he appears concerned, knowing that their children will ultimately reveal their secret relationship, but then he thinks of Padme and idea of being a father, and becomes more accepting. Quite soon after, dreams of Padme's death revives Anakin's issues with attachment, which were stoked by the loss of his mother in ATOC, and from Anakin's perspective, Yoda's advice is of no help. Then, Anakin's trust of the Jedi comes into question. After Palpatine asks Anakin to keep him informed about what the Jedi are up to (and should they really be plotting against an elected official?), the Jedi then ask Anakin to spy on Palpatine, which does seem like a treasonous request. Later, during the Opera scene, when Palpatine reveals he knows about Anakin's secret spy mission, Palpatine doesn't seem to intend to retaliate in any way -- again not the behavior of an evil man. Rather, he uses what he knows as a lesson for Anakin: the Jedi are really no better than the Sith. At this point, Anakin has no reason to show any greater allegiance to the Jedi than to Palpatine. In his mind, they are equivalent. This realization doesn't directly push Anakin more towards the dark side, but by making the Jedi appear power-hungry, Anakin's allegiance to the Jedi is weakened, making a group that has good intentions seem less attractive. (BTW, people often complain why Anakin doesn't figure out by this point that Palpatine is a Sith; the first thing on his mind is his wife, and by now, he doesn't particularly care who is the top Sith; the Sith don't seem much worse than the Jedi; in fact, the Sith might be able to save his wife's life.)

With Anakin's trust in the Jedi shaken, Palpatine then uses his ace in the hole. He reveals that the Sith have the power to cheat death. In addition to reinforcing the idea that the Jedi are keeping secrets from Anakin, the possibility of learning this power taps into Anakin's most primal ambition -- saving his wife's life -- again, a pretty sympathetic goal. Then, almost immediately after the Opera scene, Anakin all but admits his attraction to the dark side. He tells Padme: "I'm not the Jedi I should be. I want more." Anakin recognizes he's not living up to his ideals -- he's power-hungry, he won't distance himself from his attachment to Padme, and he's willing to embrace a dark side power to save her. Finally, when Palpatine reveals himself as a Sith, Palpatine hardly acts how an evil guy typically would. Anakin tells Palpatine that he's going to turn him into the Jedi, and Palpatine agrees that that's the best course of action. In fact, he's so confident that Anakin will ultimately find the Jedi less attractive than the Sith that Palpatine encourages Anakin to reveal to them that he's a Sith (with a final reminder that the Sith can prevent his wife's death). Another great ploy that most people overlook in this scene: Palpatine never asks Anakin to convert to the dark side. He simply advises Anakin to learn both sides of the Force, as if he can keep what he likes from the light side while still embracing the dark side as well. Then, after being excluded by Mace and left alone to contemplate the impending loss of his wife, Anakin returns to find Mace fulfilling exactly what Palpatine predicted -- a seemingly traitorous (or actually traitorous) Mace holding his lightsaber at the neck of the unarmed Chancellor of the galaxy before, moments later, deciding to murder this helpless and disfigured old man, who just might be able to save the life of Anakin's wife.

Jeez, I mean, really, what more do the critics want? After Palpatine reveals that he is indeed a Sith, I would have been fine if Anakin had decided there and then: "Oh, that's good that you're a Sith. The Jedi don't trust me. They won't share all they know. They want me to spy on you and are considering overthrowing you and taking control of the Senate. Besides, you might be able to help me save my wife, while they don't even care if she dies. Just tell me how to become a Sith and give me one of those cool Darth titles. I'm in!" Of course, the way it goes down in the film is far more dramatic, plus it makes Anakin more sympathetic as it appears he must act or lose his one chance to save his wife, and it's even better how slimy and manipulative it is that Palpatine has orchestrated this entire showdown to make Mace appear treasonous and then feigns weakness to play on Anakin's sympathies, but for me, Palpatine's confrontation with Mace only seals the deal that for Anakin, with his character flaws and from his perspective, embracing the dark side appears to be the most advantageous path. In fact, Anakin can't really go back if he wanted to. He's killed a member of the council; by acting in Palpatine's defense, Anakin would certainly be judged by the Jedi as a traitor to their order. So, when the article's author claims ROTS "robs us of that journey" of Anakin's descent to the dark side, my response is I don't know what film she saw, as I just wrote paragraphs about the subtle complex progression of a man torn by noble, selfish, and prideful impulses, who incrementally moves to a place, mostly through the manipulations of Palpatine, where joining the Sith becomes his only option.

My final criticism of this Yahoo review of ROTS is it focuses on the film's protagonist at the total exclusion of the film's antagonist. A hero is only as good as the villain he opposes, and perhaps that's why some of the best films have the most memorable villains -- The Dark Knight, the OT, Silence of the Lambs, Die Hard, etc. Consider how many times I have mentioned the name Palatine, while the above review mentions the name Palpatine only 3 times, once in this sentence: "When Chancellor Palpatine reveals he's evil...the story clicks." I'm not even sure what moment the critic is referring to here actually. From the point of view of the audience, it's pretty obvious what Palpatine is up to in the Opera scene, or when he's stroking Anakin's ego, or even when he gives Dooku that little smile before Anakin slices his head off, but most likely, the author is speaking about the literal moment when Palpatine directly tells Anakin that he's a Sith, and that suggests to me that the article's author strangely has very little interest in mostly every action Palpatine takes, who is after all Anakin's evil counterpart in the film. Her put down of The Dark Knight only reinforces that impression. It was the Joker, not Batman, who made that film what it is, and in many ways, ROTS is Palpatine's time to shine. For someone whom I suppose thinks of herself as film reviewer, her attitude towards the villain, as well as villains in general, is an odd one, as Palpatine's actions are absolutely integral to the story. Still, she only seems able to appreciate Palpatine when he's swinging a light saber, speaking in a sinister voice, and tossing around Senate pods, because this is virtually all that Palpatine does after he reveals he's evil. Such a superficial response to the film's antagonist and her complete exclusion of Palpatine's subtle manipulation of Anakin, the Jedi, and Dooku earlier in the film, not to mention McDiarmid's performance, makes what she wrote a review of, at best, only half the film -- Anakin's side of the film, not Palpatine's. Further, since Palpatine's actions are so intertwined with Anakin's character arc, it appears she also doesn't really get what's going on in Anakin's story either, but I guess this fact was established when all the different elements of Anakin's descent totally went over her head.

One thing she seems to have learned from re-watching ROTS is that Ep. 7 should be fun. That may be true, but that's not the lesson she should expect to gain from ROTS. ROTS was never meant to be fun. It was meant to have fun moments, but by its end, the film was meant to be a tragedy. People don't have to like tragedies. They don't have to like Hamlet or Antigone, but ROTS is the space opera version of a Shakespearean or Greek tragedy. I think Anakin's slow descent to the dark side effectively reaches tragic proportions, and by the time he is imprisoned in his mechanical suit with no other option but to be a slave to a man he hates and knows deceived him, we are able to feel pity for Vader despite all the horrific acts he will perform. There are many ways that Lucas could've done ROTS. It could've been an action film with Vader chopping up Jedi and Obi-Wan making a last minute escape. Instead, Lucas decided to tell a modern tragedy with his final film of the series. I applaud Lucas for his choice. With so many blockbuster films today telling the same story in virtually the same way, I find it audacious that Lucas chose to make a blockbuster film that's a true tragedy. For that alone I respect Lucas, and am glad to feel he was so successful in his goal, and by the same token, for GL's sake, I'm glad that general audience and critics alike mostly share my positive opinion of his final film.

 

I don't know -- but thanks!!!

You're right. People have a habit of overlooking political and commercial interests; which are vast in our world.

I don't think the originals would hold up in today's media-driven, Twitter-pated, instant-picture-meme world, either. People would be all over those flaws in a heartbeat in a geek world riven by dark entertainments like Batman, LOTR, "Game Of Thrones", and n-number of "Terminator" re-makes. The diverting fun of Star Wars, pushed up against immensities of darkness, is somewhat unique.

The villains are a bit of a soft-touch toward the heroes. That is very much in-keeping with where Star Wars comes from; what it is self-consciously modelled after. And cutesy elements keep the series varied and interesting. Yet it's really the carefully-interwoven themes that make the series click and whir with life.

Somehow, people accuse the PT of being childish, whilst (ironically) playing a game of, "Hey, kids! Look at the pink elephant!" Or they then moan and sputter and ask (only half-sincerely; or so it seems to me), "How can anyone say these are for kids with murder, betrayal, and boring senate scenes?" It's like throwing mud and hoping something sticks.

What I continue to like about the series is its multi-hued tapestry. That darkness and light are cleverly co-mingled. But, at the same time, the films are really capable, also, of concentrated bursts of dark or light, making them all the more purposeful and yet stranger.

The real way to appreciate the saga, in my view, is to look at it like an epic poem. It has a similar construction -- only, instead of being written or spoken, it has moved into the full sensation of kinematics: sound and colour. Perhaps the first of its kind.

And anything that's the "first" of anything tends to be misunderstood.

Yes. There are conflicting torrents within Anakin. He's a mixture of traits and an ambivalent creation: a Frankenstein's monster, almost. The Vader birthing scene merely clarifies the earlier conflict raging within Anakin; as if he has externalized what was previously held within. His tragedy began when he left his mother and only accelerated after that. There were chances to heal him, but they weren't taken, and everyone suffered through their greed, their vanity, their apathy, and their neglect. ROTS makes the PT the galactic tragedy it is. My reading, anyway.

And I already said this in the other thread, but cogent character analysis!

Picking up one of your nestled-in points, it's interesting that villains tend to be more appealing than heroes (even tragic heroes). The Joker and Palpatine, in particular, are very strong "trickster" characters, and I agree that TDK and ROTS are their films to shine within. Perhaps society is so repressed -- sexually, economically, morally, and philosophically -- that we cant help but experience exultant glee when watching the schemes of a strong and memorable villain. This has to be it, I think. There's something very Jungian about it all.

What I think the reviewer likes about the final stretch of the movie (trying to give them their due) is that it's very bold and focused. There's a great sense of showmanship to it, a clear psychological reversal with the Jedi now in a very vulnerable position (numerically and ontologically) next to the Sith, and ruminative fog that has been swept away to allow for a final set of reckonings -- a grand showdown (and grandly staged).

This also encapsulates, perhaps, what the reviewer means by "fun". As dark as the second half of ROTS is, it still finds space for some visually arresting heroism, as well as moments as delicious and sublime as Palpatine's line to Yoda, "I have waited a long time for this moment my little green friend..." It's hard not to get off on Palpatine's awesome malevolence just a little bit.

There's something slightly libidinous about darkness!

Adding to my thoughts above, I think this is something unique to SW. As dark and as dour as ROTS might be, it remains a blast to watch in a giddy sense, even as it pulls you into its relentlessly tragic story arc. Other films are full of forced darkness. But ROTS isn't so grimly obsessed with itself that it forgets how to deliver a sense of exhilaration; even in some of its darkness moments (though not all). Of course, it's all subjective.

But yes, I think Lucas should be applauded, too. Because ROTS is both fun and hauntingly beautiful. It has an extremely assured operatic power and aches with a wordless poetry of pure sensation. In other words, it has to be experienced to be believed. Swooping camera angles, roaring plumes of lava, a pregnant glance, a sullen tear -- these things are hard to convey outside of the experience of the film itself.

It's grand entertainment. And it makes a lot of other blockbuster films look junky and anodyne in comparison. IMO, anyway.

 

Honestly, I just don't have the heart to read the critical retrospectives anymore. Revenge of the Sith is among the very few blockbusters of the past decade to resonate with me; I genuinely believe it's a minor masterpiece, one I would eagerly place alongside Star Wars and Empire. Yet if one were to peruse any number of respectable sites, it's dismissed as a failure and its director/writer portrayed as the Wicked Witch of the East, happily crushed under the weight of the House of Disney. (Even The Dissolve, one of the very best sites for genre film appreciation, commemorated the 10-year anniversary with a shoddy evisceration, and received a bewildering consensus from otherwise engaging posters.)

I do hope the upcoming trilogy turns out well (the electrifying Rian Johnson, if left to his own devices, will undoubtedly work wonders), but it kinda hurts to see Lucas's last hurrah rejected so fiercely. It's as if a large swath of the fan community won't even attempt détente with an already-retired adversary. (Would it really pain folks to concede there's some well-crafted passages in this film?)

 

I like ROTS just fine. I liked it better when I first saw it in 2005. However, I still think a lot of it. I'm not fond of some of the dialogue, but it's the best of the prequels by far. I like the performances of Ian McDiarmid, Hayden, and McGregor.

 

Yes. It's a very artfully crafted movie. It fulfils its remit to entertain and goes beyond that and offers a penetrating sense of spectacle, whilst also filling the viewer with the sense that they are witness to something truly tragic and grandiose. For me, it is artistic and enrapturing in a way that few films are, and the manner in which the artist wove disparate threads together to create both a fitting climax for this trilogy, and a bridge to the original, is something that should not be underestimated. People can be far too casual about how difficult it is to pull off films of this calibre. And ROTS, in my opinion, is high calibre, indeed.

 

As the years go by, Revenge of the Sith's flaws become more and more readily apparent to me. The romance dialogue is as grating as ever, Palpatine is sometimes a little too over the top, the Anakin/Obi-Wan fight goes on for so long that it loses some of its intensity, the Jedi going in to arrest Palpatine is really poorly choreographed, Yoda bouncing around while lightsaber fighting looks as ridiculous as ever, etc. etc. That said, there is so much to like that it becomes easy to forgive, or at the vey least try to forget the things that frustrate me. Some such highlights:

"You were my brother, Anakin... I loved you!" has succeeded in making me tear up without fail the innumerable amount of times I've seen it in the past decade, every time. The opening tracking shot is fantastic, and the entire 30-minute opening sequence is very fun, giving us our best look at what Obi-Wan meant in Star Wars when he said, "... And he was a good friend." The opera scene is also really great, adding a nice piece of lore to the Star Wars mythos. When Windu is about to arrest Palpatine, and Anakin and Padme feel each other's anxiety and dread, and that haunting music plays... fantastic. And then you have the Order 66 montage, which is one of the best sequences in the entire saga. It's just so good, so well done, and even though you know it's coming, know it must come, it still manages to be shocking in how it portrays the evisceration of the Jedi Order in one fell swoop.

 

I don't know. The film, in my opinion, is permeated or pockmarked by a stylistic extremes, but that seems very fitting for this being the last of the Lucasian entries, in my view. I don't mean to sound like a spoil sport, but expect blander offerings from this point forth.

- Love dialogue: Strained in places, but also knowingly old-fashioned, sometimes teasing; and even absurd. I like that it often portrays the characters as lost in their own world. Like Padme's admonition set against a beautiful cityscape cast in fading sunlight: "Hold me like you did by the lake on Naboo..." They speak as if unaware that anyone is watching them; and there is a slightly arch quality to the dialogue fitting of the era. Paradoxically, many of their exchanges are naturally unnaturalistic.

- Palpatine: This is not a particularly subtle character. And I think there is something rather magnificent about seeing him erupt in all his glory in the second half of the picture. Thrilling, in my opinion, to see him drunk on his own power, and literally half-mad. Though I also appreciate the subtler and more "priestly" moments woven in; they help accentuate the fact that the Emperor is a schemer and a shrewd manipulator to the very end. "Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor" is a warning with renewed meaning in light of these extremes within the character in ROTS, and what the character achieves in the PT, in my view.

- Anakin/Obi-Wan fight: Yes, it's rather "over-the-top", but that seems to be the point. Their clash is depicted as a very involved and symbolic dance. It doesn't merely represent their own struggles, but reverberates out to suggest a wider galactic calamity. The setting makes it potent. One thing I said back in 2005 is that the environment plays a more notable part than usual; interfering with their fight at the mid-way point. This can be read as a relatively profound statement about the mania of their engagement. Each has become quite intransigent and scarcely distinguishable from the other (which I think the extreme wide shot of them jostling about on the arm as it finally tips over and impacts the lava stream nicely communicates).

- The Jedi's arrest of Palpatine: We do have some rather awkward choreography in this sequence, but I find it's quite beautifully awkward -- strained and gnarled -- if that makes any sense. I feel that the music also does a lot to carry it, bringing a great deal of excitement and elevating the saber-thwacking a decent notch. There is something a little messy and frayed about this particular duel that I like. In fact, it might be described as a duel that never gets going, since Palpatine makes light work of Mace's companions, leaving Palpatine with one obstacle -- just the turn-key he needs, in fact -- not four. And then, when it's just Palpatine and Mace, I like how treacherous Palpatine looks; as if he's just toying with Mace the whole time. I also find some enjoyment in the fact that the staging of their fight occurs in the same space that Anakin and Palpatine only recently perambulated serenely within. Something unusual in that; lightsaber duels otherwise take place in relatively unique, untrammelled environments. It's short and to-the-point (the point of Sidious' vicious blade!) and quite tense with an appropriate strain: a satire, of sorts, of the entire relationship between the Jedi and Palpatine in these movies. I digs it.

- Yoda's "bouncing": Maybe there's some comedy in it, but I feel Lucas largely exhausted the comedy aspect of it in AOTC; which was probably the intended effect. Yoda is fighting for his life, fighting for the Republic, and fighting for all his downed children, and I think the poignancy of that -- combined with the wonderful staging and music -- overrides the goof factor. Taking on Dooku was almost a game, but this fight has serious ramifications; even if Yoda, just in throwing it, has already lost, from a certain point-of-view. What I'm saying, I think, is that the somewhat eccentric nature of Yoda's fighting style is situated within a much wider tapestry, and that the engagement feels appropriately precipitous and weighty. The more challenging, comic book-y, fourth-wall-breaking aspects of the fight are well-navigated, basically, and the clash brilliantly feeds into a broader sense of fate and doom cultivated across the PT and brought to an operatic peak in the last half-hour of ROTS. That's my opinion, anyway.

All those moments are, perhaps, much more smouldering and portentous in nature. Cleft of silliness or excess, they resound with an authentic sense of sadness and horror. I think they do help lift ROTS into a higher tier of artistic expression; infusing the movie with a greater sense of meaning and purpose. On the other hand, if every scene in the movie were like that, the picture would arguably sink under its own pretentiousness, if you will, and fail to elicit the right balance of awe and amusement. Star Wars is, after all, a set of B-movie outings done with "A-movie" production values, and still requires its share of light-heartedness -- yes, even ridiculousness -- in order to reach its full effect. That there is such poetry within ROTS, and within the saga generally, I think, is testament to a fruitful balance being struck: we're entertained, moved, and in a way... changed by watching and partaking of the art.

In short, Star Wars is some sort of modern gesamtkunstwerk: a digitally-layered theatre of the absurd. On some level, it dramatizes drama itself, and mocks itself, with a bewildering array of technical flourishes and artistic digressions that create, well, less of a story, more the impression and experience of a story. Suffice it to say, I think this gives the films a peculiar richness, and makes it so that they can't really be pinned down in any definitive sense. Any box you try to put Star Wars in, it tries to get out of, and will pretty much always succeed at escaping from.

Of course, none of what I've said should be construed as a dismissal of your personal opinions. I'm just -- once again -- trying to appreciate and deify the fabric of the series on its own terms; refracted through the prism of my own proclivities and biases. ROTS fuses many disparate strands together. To me, it is in the best tradition of the entire saga, and more or less brings the entire work to catastrophic fulfilment. Without this movie, Star Wars has a gaping hole at its centre; with it, it attains a sense of grandeur that is its own gift of completeness. My fanboy take, anyway.

 

Just offering my little perspective.

I've been a SW fan since I first saw the films in the early 90s, but I didn't become a big fan until after AOTC. In that sense ROTS was unique for me because it is the only time I have been disappointed with a SW film on the first viewing (more like 5 first viewings). I've been making this point before, but this "lucky" circumstance is what made me realize that it was my expectations that ruined the film for me.

Now however I've learned to enjoy it for what it is, not what I think it should be. And it's a great film, one of my favorites. These days that is always my advice to people who were disappointed with the prequels: keep watching them, and watch them with an open mind. Unlearn what you have learned

 

Revenge of the Sith remains my favorite movie of all time 10 years later

 

He even says that in ROTS-he tells Padme on Mustafar, "...I can overthrow him!"


That being said, ROTS remains my all time favorite movie, since 2005. Time has only made me enjoy it more-the pacing is great, and when you don't see it for half a year and then revisit it, it brings back some of that exhilarating enjoyment I first felt in the theater...

As far as Anakin's turn, I think it was done great. I feel his turn was more of basically sort of making a deal with the devil kind of thing, and once everything blew up in his face, he finally gave in to the hate he'd been fighting back for so long. "I sense great FEAR in you, Skywalker. You have hate, you have anger, but you don't use them!" I feel that if Sidious didn't use his fear of losing Padme to entice him to the Darkside, he would likely have still turned at some point, considering how emotionally vulnerable he was anyway.

So seeing Sidious capitalize on Padme's possible death to convince Anakin to turn made sense to me...

 

ROTS as everybody probably knows by now is my favorite movie theater experience and the most nostalgic star wars film as well. The film does have its problems, but it remains to me at least a good film and best of the prequel trilogy. It also has my favorite star wars soundtrack next to ESB.

 

Still holds up for me. In fact, it's now my second favorite, after ANH (mostly because I've become disappointed with some story aspects of Empire - talk about the most overrated sequels of all times).

Sure, some scenes might have been improved upon but it never fails to entertain me and strike emotional chord with me.

By the way, where I come from, the OT was never widely released so a lot of people saw the prequels first. I saw some responses that indicated that Anakin's fall and the general mayhem in ROTS was more genuinely shocking to the uninitiated than anything in the OT. In fact, I'm now a proponent of a chronological order of viewing the episodes for the first time viewers. A lot of people already know about Vader being Luke's father anyway while the events in the prequels are more obscure.

 

Here's the thing to me. ROTS is the greatest Star Wars movie now or probably there ever will be but not only because of the movie standing alone by itself.

By itself it is an amazing achievement in the history of cinema but what makes it great it is it is the culmination of the build from the previous two films of the trilogy and how it pulls backwards and forwards in time all of the elements that make the OT great.

Each of the movies makes the whole better but ROTS makes the whole that much better than any of the others.

Now the deck is stacked in it's favour of course as more happens in this one movie than any of the others.

That did not mean that it had to work as spectacularly as it did though.

It's hardly romance. They are a married couple.

It's the best day of his life. He is in total control of EVERYTHING!

Too short really. Only last mere minutes.

Nothing at all ridiculous about Yoda there. Now on Luke's backpack? OUCH!!

We forgive all kinds of things about ANH, TESB, ROTJ, TPM and AOTC as well That is fandom,

 

I just have to give some HUGE props to all my SW Saga fans(guys and gals) on the PT boards that I converse with on a daily basis. You guys really have you fingers on the pulse of the SW universe. It is a treat to read all of your comments everyday.

PS I know this seems random to do this on this post, but I felt it needs to be said and why not?

 

Another perspective.

After all that talk about practical FX I gave TPM a spin last night as a start to a big day re-watch run up, and reconsideration of all this practical versus CGI nonsense.

Putting all that aside for a moment something really took me by surprise. I had always liked Jake Loyd's Anakin - yip -liked it unconditionally , but this time round I found myself getting quite emotional. Like when Qui-gon says "we'll look after him" to Shmi, and when he's cold in the queens ship, his awkwardness in the temple - free but suddenly in a foreign new world. There is an amazing edit when Obi-wan asks Qui-gon what does it mean that Anakin's count is so high. As Qui-gon say he doesn't know, the soundtrack turns to the choir intoning the menace of Darth Maul's arrival, before it has wiped to show his ship on it's way - answering his question, and just as it wipes to that external space shot it cuts to Shmi looking concerned at Qui-gon. A moment of worry. Of course we know by now what everything all means, but hearing that in retrospect is spine tingling.

It is a different film now that you know what happens, ROTS seeps backwards to remove some of the innocence that TPM once had. The boy is dangerous, Qui-gon the old hippie was too concerned with his mystic trip etc.

At the time everyone complained, they still do, about the start of the trilogy, and Anakin as a kid, and wanted badass vader straight away, but Lucas tried to say - this is just the start - be patient. I was, and I think it works really well now all the pieces are in place - due to the intense crescendo that is ROTS.
George knew exactly what he was doing. TPM is exquisite as a prelude, and ROTS works all the better for the patient but deeply considered previous acts to this grand finale.

What's the point in trying to review it if you hate the other parts? It's like saying you can just about enjoy the power of the music to Seigfrieds funeral in Gotterdammarung , while complaining that the previous acts in The Ring were just a bunch of portly women shouting in German. If you hate Wagner, why waste you time trying to salvage the good bits of the finale for a review? All it does is exposes your inability to get the whole work.

 

You kill me!

 

Just rewatched it a couple weeks ago. It's still my favorite PT movie and overall, I think it's about as good as Jedi. It still have the same problems IMO.... Anakin--Padme scenes still feel forced and artificial. Yoda still meets Chewbacca. The Mustafar fight is still too long, over-the-top, and choreographed feeling. Its strengths are still its strengths. Really enjoy the Palaptine scenes. Love the opening sequence (even though some stuff deosn't make any sense). Enjoy (maybe not ENJOY, but you know what I mena) the sense of the collapse of the Republic and the birth of the Empire.

 

I recently rewatched it myself and got more out of it than I ever did before, although it does get so damn heart-breaking as Anakin turns on Padme and we see the beautiful-souled kid of The Phantom Menace corrupted and broken as a hopeless young man it's actually really hard to watch the last half hour or so. Anakin's turn is still far too fast to swallow, but everything around that - especially Christensen's performance - is pretty damn on point.

For the most part I'm in agreement with what Strongbow says in the next post up.

 

It's a flawed masterpiece. I can't think of another major motion picture franchise other than The Godfather that takes the protagonist and transforms him into the antagonist. Completely operatic.