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Lit Sith lore question - Ruin’s Holocron

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Sinrebirth, Jun 12, 2018.

  1. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    Ruin apparently had a Sith Holocron which presumably was involved in his fall...

    ... but which Sith in history before him could turn a vain man into a solipsistic monster?

    I’m unsure. It could be Vitiate, but it’s pretty unclear.


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  2. Landb

    Landb Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Mar 7, 2017
    I think it could be pretty much any Sith. They could have been supplying bog-standard Sith philosophy, which simply got him thinking and philosophizing on his own re:the implications if one took such ideas to their fullest possible extent. The solipsism aspect could have come entirely from his own ideas, a 'truth no prior Sith managed to fully grasp', though some may have come closer than others.
     
  3. Darth Caliban

    Darth Caliban Jedi Knight star 4

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    Aug 17, 2015
    I'm not sure about this, but i believe that the Sith artifacts in Ommin's possession might have been at least partially responsible for his state in body and mind.
     
  4. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I was under the impression that Ruin became solipsistic, turned to the dark side, and then seeked out holocrons.

    The fact that Ruin's fall is considered a "Great Schism" suggests that he fell independently and not under a holocron's influence.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
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  5. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    I imagine it was his own holocron. I think his fall was specifically tied to his solipsism-he was killed by his own followers who returned to sith orthodoxy so my suspicion is he was probably mentally unstable if not outright insane and his solipsism was a consequence of that.

    But I always interpreted Ruin as being unique in the sheer degree of megalomania and self worship enough that his own followers apparently felt he wasn't orthodox in his sith doctrine.
     
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  6. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer Force Ghost star 6

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    Mar 26, 2013
    How much information do we have on Ruin?
     
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  7. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Here's his creed.

    "There is no passion…there is solely obsession.
    There is no knowledge. There is solely conviction.
    There is no purpose. There is solely will.
    There is nothing…
    Only me.
    "

    Basically solipsism and egotism taken to an extraordinary degree.

    He was an Umbaran Jedi master(one of the Lost) whose fascination with solipsist ideas was disturbing to the jedi council-this led him to leaving the order(perhaps with some followers) and finding remnant sith groups and leading them. He was killed by his own followers for his unorthodox ideas-and they perpetrated a thousand year war after that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  8. kalzeth

    kalzeth Jedi Knight star 2

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    Aug 26, 2017
    Man I wish we had gotten books or comics about him


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  9. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    Ruin was also the first of the Lost Twenty, of which Dooku was the last, and he triggered the Fourth Great Schism, leading fifty Jedi to leave.

    His rise also coincides with when the Ones secluded themselves in Mortis.


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  10. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Hence I believe that Phanius was a Chosen One candidate, but at some point Father rejected him for being too power-hungry, and his anger at being denied the Mortis throne lead to him instigating the Fourth Great Schism in hopes of taking the Mortis throne by force (undecided as to if the pun is intended).
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
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  11. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 22, 2005
    Ruin wasn't the first of the lost Twenty, just one of the First.

    Now that Legends is closed, I think we should change the Lost Twenty from Masters who left the Order to the only 20 councilors who ever left the Order. This didn't fit at first because Dooku was said not to be on the Council, but TCW material later said he was. Thus, Anakin can properly consider himself the Lost 21st in Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader since he was on the Council.
     
  12. Darth Caliban

    Darth Caliban Jedi Knight star 4

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    Aug 17, 2015
    The problem with Anakin being the Lost 21st is that he never was awarded the title of Master and only was allowed to be on council sessions because of Palpatine.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  13. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 22, 2005
    That's why my retcon of the Lost only being Councilors works. Who cares if they were appointed by Chancellors?
     
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  14. jSarek

    jSarek VIP star 4 VIP

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    Feb 18, 2005
    I don't think any retcon is necessary. It's clear that Anakin thinks himself worthy of the rank of Master from his tantrum in RotS. There's no longer a Jedi Council to tell him that he's not, because they're all dead or in hiding. Many Masters are dead by Vader's own hands, and thus clearly (to his mind) inferior in their mastery of the Force to him. Seems perfectly reasonable to me that Vader would see Anakin as a Jedi Master.
     
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