Skywalkers' Mirror Test

When we fans learned that their would be a pt, one thing many of us were interested in, was the way of the Jedi. After the tpm, we became interested in what it took to become a Jedi, in The Trials.

From watching the cwc we know that there is a trial of physical well being, a trial of the flesh, and the mirror. So far the only test we have seen in the media is the mirror, and we have seen both Skywalkers, father and son take this test. Now lets look at the reults, and see what it says about them.

I will start with Anakin. He has mirror test when 'mother' gives him the visions in the cave. Here we see ghost hand save his people from a monster, using his terrific abilities. Unfortunately these abilities lead the hero to killing all those around him. After having this vision, Anakin passes out. Upon waking up, Anakin comes accross the evil experiments being conducted by the Techno Union, and saves the Nevlaan warriors.

Luke has his mirror test on Dagobah during his tests w/ Yoda. We all know that against the advice of Yoda he brings his lightsaber w/ him. There he comes accross an image of Vader, whom Luke decapitates. The worse is about to befall Luke however, when Vader's helmet explodes, to reveal the head inside is his.

Now there is alot of talk as to whether or not Anakin failed his test, while most summarily say that Luke failed his. However did Luke really fail his?

After faltering in the cave, Luke is able to talk to Yoda about the vision he had. He understands what his fate could be, but that he could still shape it. Anakin initially comes out of mirror test and saves the Nevlaan warriors. However he is unable to talk to Obi-Wan about his vission, and in doing so secures his fate.

So what are your opinions on how the two Skywalkers faired in their mirror tests?

 

However did Luke really fail his?

Yoda thinks so.

YODA: The cave. Remember your failure at the cave.

Both father and son failed the tests, but ultimately both pulled out of darkness. It took Anakin 25 years of failure to pull out though.

 

I don't believe that Luke really failed the mirror test because after he defeated Vader, he looks at both his own robotic hand and his father's which allowed him to realise that he was about to go down the same path his father went which is why he threw his saber away. Yoda only said that Luke failed because 1) he didn't want Luke to know that he passed the test out of fear that he'll be as egocentric and arrogant as Anakin was and 2) he was trying to stop Luke from going to Bespin to save Han and Leia.

As for Anakin's mirror test, I don't think he understood that the visions were trying to tell him that he's going down the same path as the village hero because after he freed the Nevellan warriors, he still force-crushed Wat Tambor(?)'s neck and knowing what happens in Episode 3, he will never understand.

 

I think you could say that because Luke failed his trail he learned from it. Now with Anakin I even wonder if he realises that the guy with the werd hand is him, even if he understands i doubt he'll take it seriously. Anakin probably thinks that his trail was freeing the warriors from the Techno Union , not the vision on the wall.

 

Hmm...In my humble opinion, it's always been what the Jedi does *after* they take the test that marks whether they truly pass or fail. Luke failed at the cave, but he succeeded when it came to Vader and the emperor, so in mnay ways he did pass - he learned from his errors and looked inside himself, saw what was dark and reconciled himself with it. Anakin failed to do that he. He not only failed the test (didn't even take the official one, unfortunately), but he was then consumed by the darkness he refused to see within.

It's really a shame to think what could have happened had Anakin taken the mirror test Master Rancisis was so insistent upon in the CW cartoon. If he had been forced to face himself rather than slide by, alot of lives could have been saved if they'd managed to see the problem and help him earlier on.

 

Sounds to me that a padawan CANNOT pass the mirror trial. Maybe the whole test is set up so the padawan fails, and then learns from the mistake. Luke fails his, learns from his mistake, and goes on to become a great Jedi. I think when you are dealing with individuals as powerful as future Jedi Knights, then it is good in the long run to knock them down a peg. Maybe one good reality check is all some padawans need to follow the right path. If a Jedi doesn't learn from his or her mirror trial then the council can take the proper steps to, either, fix the problem or remove them from the "program," kinda like how a potential Navy Seal can "wash out."

 

Sounds to me that a padawan CANNOT pass the mirror trial. Maybe the whole test is set up so the padawan fails, and then learns from the mistake. Luke fails his, learns from his mistake, and goes on to become a great Jedi. I think when you are dealing with individuals as powerful as future Jedi Knights, then it is good in the long run to knock them down a peg. Maybe one good reality check is all some padawans need to follow the right path. If a Jedi doesn't learn from his or her mirror trial then the council can take the proper steps to, either, fix the problem or remove them from the "program," kinda like how a potential Navy Seal can "wash out."

Star Trek Reference: Kobiyashi Maru Test. No Win Situation.

 

Ah, excellent idea jangoisadrunk. Prior to taking the trials, padawans don't know about them, right? It's not something Jedi are encouraged to speak about because it's something one has to do on one's own. It makes sense to me, the idea that you can learn the most by failing and recovering...

Let me back up a bit and say what I was going to, though. I haven't watched the latest CW series because I've heard there are some spoilers and I don't want to know. I am not a big EU reader, so the only knowledge I have of this 'mirror' test is hearsay. However, I have to say in this case I do like the EU's interpretation. It is in line with what I had previously envisioned the trials to be, in all three of those parts. It obviously helps that we get an idea of what the Jedi consider to be proper training/rites from Luke's journey in the OT, though obviously that's a bit unorthodox.

I was also going to say something along the lines of what jango did, that just because you fail initially doesn't mean you've failed and just because you think you've succeded completely doesn't mean you have. Very in line with Jedi thinking. But the idea that the test is actually *designed* to be failed a first time is a step beyond what I'd thought. It's an intriguing idea, though. Let's discuss it some more

But in the meantime, I am unable to resist the opportunity to bring a certain Kenobi into the discussion It's just that Obi-Wan's knighting brings up the question of what about when there is no formal trial. Obviously there was no way to justify not knighting Obi-Wan as he'd killed a Sith. But what about the other parts of the trial? I guess I wonder if these things like the mirror can really be induced by the Council anyway, or if they simply follow the time-table of the Force. In that case, where is the mirror for those who, like Obi-Wan, don't go through the normal trials?

I think a big portion of the trial has to be facing the potential for the Dark Side in yourself and consciously choosing to go the other direction. Obi-Wan faces the Dark Side when he fights Maul, but I don't think we really see him face his failure in TPM. Because he did fail, in my opinion. He killed Maul, but he did it in anger. Even after regaining his wits some, the vestigates of it are written all over his face when he brutally slices Maul in half. And yet he goes on, he's knighted, and we don't hear about it.

The way I see it, the Force doesn't let you get by that easily. For one thing, the Dark Side is strong and once you start down that path... you know. I imagine that when one has an encounter with the Dark Side as Obi-Wan does in TPM, it doesn't just go away. I think you have to make a conscious effort to relinquish it, as Luke does when he throws away his lightsabre in RotJ. But for Obi-Wan, flawed though he is, a stalwart of the lightside, we don't see his throwing away the lightsabre moment in conjunction with his trial, as it were. Personally I think it's needed to confirm that someone is ready to be on their own as a knight, especially if they're training someone else, too.

I thought about this and wrote about it, actually, in a directly post-TPM fic of mine. I don't mean to promote or anything, it's just that I do a lot of my thinking about characters through writing. Basically, it involved some confrontation with the taint of the Dark Side that Obi-Wan hasn't dealt with. That was through some conflict, personal and physical, with a master Obi-Wan doesn't particularly like and with some visions and ultimately the outright acknowledgement of the slip and turning away from that possibility. Ok, you all probably don't care, but I happen to like that story I needed closure on that plotline in my mind and, for my part, I have my vision now. Why can't I write the canon, dangit?

...I think I ended up talking about OW more than the Skywalkers But hey, it was on-topic. Ghost, you brought this on yourself

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

well when darth maul killed quigon obiwan was helpless behind that shield thing(no idea what it is) and he had to watch his master fall.Being around him so long quigon was most likely like a father to obiwan and he is to anakin and after quigon fell obiwan felt enraged that he had killed his fatherly figure and attacked maul with that anger.

But for luke in ESB he failed because he didnt understand the nature of the task at that time,he feared vader at that time and had no clue he was gonna fight himself. This again relates to obiwan and maul in theed like solojones said.

I think that this fight was obiwans trial and he failed miseribly but they over looked this flaw and knighted him anyway.

 

Could we possibly say that Luke's mirror test was going up against Vader? I know that the cave seems like the obvious answer and for good reason. In the cave he had to face himself, just like a mirror. But if fighting Maul was Obi-Wan's mirror test, isn't fighting Vader Luke's mirror test? It is his brush with the dark side. That is why after "defeating" Vader Luke just looks at Palpatine and says "I am a Jedi..." Could that then be Luke's mirror test?

 

hmmm thats possible. he almost killed vader(after he got his hand cut off again for like the 3/4th time) he might have thought that he passed his trial,because if he whoulda killed vader he whoulda failed and turned to the darkside.But what if the whole fight on there was his trial? from the moment palpetine tempts him to the end?

 

I belive that luke passed his because he went on to revive the order and help the New republic out and stuff like that

while anakin some what passed at the start he passed but when he went to the darkside thats when I belive he failed his test

 

Rachel, I was reading your post, and I was thinking maybe Obi-QWan's test came while he was hanging from the ledge. It was here that he had a moment of clarity. It was here that he looked deep inside of himself, found the resolve and defeated the darkside (maul).

 

That's how I wrote it, too, ghost, with reflection and centering there to an extent Amazing thinking alike there. But at the same time, he still has anger written on his face when he kills Maul. I just like to think there was a bit more to deal with than that. Especially because Obi-Wan grew up in a time when a Jedi never expected to have such an experience, encountering a Sith. But Luke has had his task in mind since he saw Vader kill Ben.

I think Luke's mirror test started with his failure in the cave, but continued quite a while. I'm not actually sure if it's passed until he tosses his lightsabre aside in RotJ.

-sj loves kevin spacey