Slavery = OK....?

Shmi could have found work, she had some skills. She wouldn't have just 'been freed with no home and no job.'

Form the start she would have. I don't like using RL in SW. But for this I will. When the blacks were freed form slavery the 1st thing that should have been doen was to help them find a hom and get jobs so they coudl have money.

That was never done. For Shmi after she is free the 1st thing that must be done is to make sure she has a place to live and is able to find a job. Other wise there is not much hope for her to be able to live on Tatoonie.

 

"You are aware that Mos Espa is the only location on Tatooine to practice slavery, right?"

"PPOR"

" In the time of the Republic, slavery persisted in Mos Espa, though the despicable trade was outlawed elsewhere." - OS: Mos Espa

I always back up my statements. You, more than anyone, should know that.

"there's obviously some sort of economy there."

"You think ever last person in the stands was rich."

"having an economy" <> "being rich", it simply means that people do have credits. Cliegg bought Shmi, didn't he?

Straw-man arguments aren't going to cut it here.

" So just set her free with no place to live and no money."

So just leave her a slave? And Qui-gon did give her money!

"Watto: No pod is worth tow slaves. "

Agreed, but Shmi is obviously worth something, otherwise she would never have ben sold, would she?

Can you simply not understand the possibility of Padme finding SOMETHING OF VALUE on Naboo to give Watto? Watto loves hard merchandise. Was Cliegg's purchase an oversight on Lucas' part?

"I mean that's all they have in R2 units when they got to Tatooine."

Sure, but then, of course, you are completely ignoring the possibility of Padme going back to Tatooine, aren't you?

"Your missing the one thing I have been saying. Watto alredy lost one slave. HE WILL NOT give up Shmi. Not for Republic credits. They are no good out there."

OPEN YOUR EYES!!!! Shmi was sold, therefore it's possible! Qui-gon did get Tatooine credits! Padme can bring other items to sell/barter/trade! Both of these scenarios happened in the movie! The fact that you refuse to acknowledge the possibility of these scenarios happening again is mind-boggling!

"Which all they have any ways are Republic credits. So there goes that idea out the window."

There are clearly ways to get Tatooine credits, or barter technology, so your entire stance goes out the window.

"For Shmi after she is free the 1st thing that must be done is to make sure she has a place to live and is able to find a job. Other wise there is not much hope for her to be able to live on Tatoonie."

Actually, the first thing that "must be done" is freeing her. Your belief that she would not be able to live on Tatooine is short-sighted, considering the thousands of other people who are clearly doing exactly that in the PT and the OT. Your belief is also self-serving, since it ignores obvious facts presented in the films to make your points.

If you don't want Shmi freed, so be it. Nonethless, the means for doing so exist in the films.

 

" In the time of the Republic, slavery persisted in Mos Espa, though the despicable trade was outlawed elsewhere."

I wonder why. Oh the hutts have control over the whole planet maybe. Mos Espa is not the only place that has slaves on Tatooine.

If you don't want Shmi freed, so be it. Nonethless, the means for doing so exist in the films.

Where did I say that? Where did I even post that. Your saying I said things that I never did.

I'm not even going to say anything to the rest of your post. I found must of it to be rether rude.

 

" I wonder why. Oh the hutts have control over the whole planet maybe. Mos Espa is not the only place that has slaves on Tatooine." ?

So now the OS is wrong? PPOR.

"If you don't want Shmi freed, so be it. Nonethless, the means for doing so exist in the films."

"Where did I say that? Where did I even post that. Your saying I said things that I never did."

"When the blacks were freed form slavery the 1st thing that should have been doen was to help them find a hom and get jobs so they coudl have money.

That was never done. "

Does that mean the blacks should never have been freed?

"I found must of it to be rether rude."

..and I find your need to misconstrue my scenarios in the worst light possible, as well as completely ignoring earlier points in your responses, remarkable.

For example...

"You mean sell of R2 well if you say so I mean that's all they have in R2 units when they got to Tatooine."

"Which all they have any ways are Republic credits. So there goes that idea out the window."

You agreed to one means of getting Tatooine credits, and then turn around and say they can't get Tatooine credits. It's like arguing with a revolving door.

 

Does that mean the blacks should never have been freed?

Your putting words in my month. I'm done here. Goo-bye.

You agreed to one means of getting Tatooine credits, and then turn around and say they can't get Tatooine credits. It's like arguing with a revolving door.

I never agreed to what you said.

 

"Your putting words in my month. I'm done here. Goo-bye."

I AM NOT! I am asking you to explain how your example pertains to Star Wars. YOU brought it up in the first place!

The real problem is, you now see the inherent problem with your argument, just as you did in the thread concerning the slaughter of the Tuskens. Point being, I never said that you believed in your statement personally, simply that it is not a defendable argument in and of itself. There is a difference.

BTW, now you don't believe that Padme could have sold her droids for Tatooine credits? Would you mind explaining or proving yet another one of your "impossible hurdles"?

 

ON 2nd thought I don't want to get into this.

 

Tell you what....let me try to make my point with someone's argument - openmind

He claims that since Padme couldn't free all the slaves, there's no reason for her to bother with one (not that we see this attitude displayed in any other situation in the films, but let's just play along for the moment.)

According to him, this is a universal truth. Now, allow me to apply this "truth" to another scenario, in order to demonstrate several inherent weaknesses in his logic...

The Underground Railroad:

Individuals and small handfuls of slaves were taken out of the American South by small bends of people dedicated and determined to freeing blacks and ending slavery. Despite this, openmind's "truth" runs counter to everything the Underground Railroad stood for....

Hmmm. I think whatever Shmi has done, you have to think about all the other slaves who equally need to be freed. ALL slaves deserve to be freed regardless.

1) As previously stated, individuals and small handfuls of slaves were rescued at any given time. Since not all slaves were rescued, such an effort could be construed as pointless and a waste of time by said reasoning.

2) Were the members of the Underground Railroad to attempt to free all the slaves at the same time, the mass exodus of blacks traveling North would be easily seen and easily thwarted, and all whites involved would have been locked up or killed. In fact, following openmind's reasoning would have been the worst possible thing to do for all parties involved (except, of course, the slave owners.)

3) Not only did the Underground Railroad not eliminate slavery, but arguably made conditions worse for those slaves who stayed behind (who would likely have been punished for not turning in the deserter, or would suffer even harsher sercurity measures after such an escape.)

4) Even if the slave made it to the North, there were laws established that required Northerners to return any runaways they found. In addition to this, many blacks were "accused" of being runaways, and taken South without any evidence or even a fair hearing (See: Dred Scott). So, just being in the North, either as a runaway or a free black, didn't necessarily make one's life better.

5) Blacks in the North were still subject to discrimination, and often faced worse conditions than they would in the South. One key point of contention was free blacks taking jobs away from whites.

These five points, when taken into consideration with openmind's reasoning, scream at the fact that the Underground Railroad was inherently faulty, counter-productive, and doomed to fail, which means it should never have been allowed to happen in the first place.

Which, of course, is a morally indefensible argument.

Now, this is not to say that openmind supports the position that the Underground Railroad was a complete failure in the fight against slavery. My point is simply that, despite his personal opinion, his "reasonable" argument does support this ordinarily "unreasonable" conclusion.

Now, let's look at your statement...

"When the blacks were freed form slavery the 1st thing that should have been doen was to help them find a hom and get jobs so they coudl have money. That was never done."

And apply this in context to the thread title Slavery = OK....?

Slavery is not okay, unless weighed against the scenario of freeing a slave without a means of finding employment or shelter.

Please tell me if I am overlooking something here. Again, I am not saying that you are promoting slavery, but your argument does, even if in this limited example. Of course, it still ignores the fact that Qui-gon was able to acquire Tatooine credits (which he gave to Shmi), and a general disregard for the very real possibility of Shmi finding gainful employment and shelter elsewhe

 

Oops.

 

Again, I am not saying that you are promoting slavery, but your argument does, even if in this limited example.

No it does not.

Of course, it still ignores the fact that Qui-gon was able to acquire Tatooine credits (which he gave to Shmi),

Anakin: What about Mom? Is she free too?
Qui-gon: I tried to free your mother, Annie, but Watto wouldn't have it.
Anakin: But the money from selling...
Qui-gon: It's not nearly enough.

Hell, there's really nothing keeping her from becoming Watto's employee, rather than his slave. Clearly, she has some skills, otherwise Watto would never have bought her several years before Anakin showed any real value of his own.

Watto never bought Shmi never in the movie did it say he bought her.

Anakin: My Mom and I were sold to Gardulla the Hutt, but she lost us betting on the Podraces to Watto, who's a lot better master then Gardulla, I think.

Also:

Padme: These junk dealers must have a weakness of some kind.
Shmi: Gambling. Everthing here revolves around betting on those awful races.

So yes Watto has a weakness. His weakness his only weakness is Gambling. The only reason he had to after a long while sell Shmi was because he need money.

there are no impossible hurdles to prevent Padme from coming back and freeing her.

Padme was running a whole planet. No that's not the same as running a whole contury. Her planet was taken over. After that she had to work on getting things back in order. Then there was the fact of working on get the Gunguns and the people of Naboo closer together. Also she could never have called Anakin. He was away with Obi-wan learning how to be a Jedi.

Then you go back to Tatooine. Not long after maybe a year or so after Anakin had left Watto needs money really bad. Meaning that she was free for nine years until she wsa kidnapped. Watto even said he had sold her years ago. Cliegg comes a long buys and frees and marrys Shmi.

Watto get's the money he needs. But it still does not help him and he falls into hard times. You go into AOTC the Watto that is shown it not the same Watto as before.

So there's the whole argument no where is it promoting slavery.

 

"Of course, it still ignores the fact that Qui-gon was able to acquire Tatooine credits (which he gave to Shmi),"

Anakin: What about Mom? Is she free too?
Qui-gon: I tried to free your mother, Annie, but Watto wouldn't have it.
Anakin: But the money from selling...
Qui-gon: It's not nearly enough.

Thank you for illustrating my point that it's possible to obtain Tatooine credits. Not sure why you are arguing my side, though. ?

"Watto never bought Shmi never in the movie did it say he bought her."

My apologies. Nonetheless, Shmi had some value long before Anakin showed any, so my point still stands - Shmi has something to offer, which she can apply towards a job on Tatooine.

"The only reason he had to after a long while sell Shmi was because he need money."

Which, again, is clearly obtainable, as shown by your earlier post. Problem solved.

"Padme was running a whole planet."

Not when she stepped down from being a queen. Problem solved.

"Her planet was taken over."...and subsequently saved by the end of TPM. Problem solved.

"After that she had to work on getting things back in order. Then there was the fact of working on get the Gunguns and the people of Naboo closer together."

And you believe this took 10 years? She did everything all by her little self? Baseless.

"Also she could never have called Anakin. He was away with Obi-wan learning how to be a Jedi."

Jedi code of non-attachment. Not to mention the fact that Lord only knows where Anakin would be at any given moment. Shmi isn't going anywhere, and Tatooine is along the way between Naboo and Coruscant. (I'm presuming you don't think she spent all 10 years on one planet or the other - especially considering the fact that TPM ends on Naboo and AOTC begins flying to Coruscant). Problem solved.

"So there's the whole argument no where is it promoting slavery."

Agreed. Much better. Nonetheless, there are no insurmountable obstacles.

 

Thank you for illustrating my point that it's possible to obtain Tatooine credits. Not sure why you are arguing my side, though.

If that's the way you want to feel fine.

Not when she stepped down from being a queen. Problem solved.

To bad Shmi had been freed before then.

and subsequently saved by the end of TPM. Problem solved.

She then had to work to get things back in order.


"So there's the whole argument no where is it promoting slavery."

Agreed. Much better.

I never was promoting slavery. To being with. No matter how mush you want to say it. Which if you even say it again I will be going to a mod with it.

 

I think you'll find this interesting:

Quote
BELLAMY STATEMENT ON SLAVERY IN SUDAN

GENEVA/NEW YORK (March 12, 1999) ? Sudan's civil war, which has killed two million people in more than 16 years of fighting and displaced four million more, employs a range of grotesque practices, including slavery. The majority of cases have involved the abduction and subsequent exploitation of children and women from the area of Bahr El Gazal in southern Sudan. While most of the abductions have clearly been the work of armed militia based in northern parts of the country, there have also been violations perpetrated by tribal militia operating in southern Sudan.

In response to these numerous atrocities, a number of privately funded groups are engaging in a well-intentioned effort to purchase the freedom of individual slaves. Certainly, efforts to end the slave trade (defined in the 1926 Slavery Convention as including Ïall acts involved in the capture, acquisition or disposal of a person with intent to reduce him to slaveryÓ) must be pursued until the abhorrent practice is eradicated. While UNICEF understands the humanitarian instincts of school children in the United States and others to purchase the freedom of slaves, the sobering truth is that these efforts will not end the enslavement of human beings. The Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC) obligates governments to prevent the abduction, sale or traffic in children for any purpose, and in any form, and calls on UNICEF to support governments in these efforts. As a matter of principle, UNICEF does not engage in or encourage the buying and selling of human beings.

Clearly, the practice of paying for the retrieval of enslaved children and women does not address the underlying causes of slavery in Sudan: the on-going civil war and its by-products of criminality. Until these root problems are addressed, there can be no lasting solution. To roll back and eventually bring a halt to slavery in Sudan, UNICEF believes the main effort should be directed at enlisting the support of the warring parties in ending the armed conflict and all its practices.

UNICEF is encouraged that the Advisory Council for Human Rights of the Republic of The Sudan has recently asked for our assistance in addressing the slavery problem. While UNICEF once again welcomes the declared willingness of the Government of Sudan to face squarely the issue of slavery within that country, it must be noted that a number of former initiatives in this regard have been unsuccessful. Now that there is irrefutable evidence of an established and on-going slave trade in Sudan, UNICEF hopes to cooperate effectively with the Government of Sudan, and other interested members of the international community Ã’ in particular the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) which has been actively concerned about and engaged in the issue Ã’ in order quickly to achieve the following specific objectives:

- A firm commitment, from all those directly and indirectly responsible, to end the slave trade in Sudan;

- Freedom of movement for international verifiers;

- Full support for retrieval, tracing and reunification programmes; and

- A specific plan and provision of free access to document all phases of a full-scale effort to bring the slave trade to an end, to free its victims and to restore them to their rightful communities and families.

During the 1990s, we have witnessed the rise of civil conflicts in which there appears to be no limit to the degradation inflicted on innocent parties, children and women in particular. Whether it is the use of slavery as a weapon of war in Sudan, large-scale mutilations in Sierra Leone or organized rape and mayhem in Kosovo, human conflict in the late 20th century poses unprecedented challenges to all humanitarian efforts to create a peaceable, equitable and fair world. In virtually all instances, contemporary armed conflicts have their roots in deeply intertwined political and economic issues which humanitarian organizations are neither equipped nor manda

 

MeBe, anidan, step away from this thread for 24 hours. You're rapidly approaching an area that doesn't bode well for either of you.

I'm getting PMs and they aren't making me happy.

 

She then had to work to get things back in order.

Thing is, she was never working 24/7. In AOTC, she was on the run for her life from assassins, but was still able to find the time to have a picnic and frolic in fields. The Great Senator hard at work, aye?

I'll wait for the 24 hour thing to pass.

 

"So there I was saying how some posters seem determined to trivialized and minimalise the slavery aspect of TPM in order to cover over the question of why Padme didn't free Shmi."

And there are some posters who wish to ignore the obvious reasons why Padme couldn't free Shmi by calling them "trivial" and "minimal" so they can continue on believing that Padme has many opportunities to free slaves.

"wouldn't Shmi be considered as "others"?"

She is but she's way too far out of Padme's reach.

"When did Shmi become "EVERYONE"?"

Since you are making it sound like Padme's responsibility of freeing Shmi is more important than any other crisis that is happening in the galaxy but that situation is too personal and I just told you in my earlier post that personal matters shouldn't get in the way of duty or else, there would be consequences.

Mebejedi-

"Fair enough, but that doesn't mean it's been happening for 10 years."

You don't know that.

For all we know, it probably has been happening for 10 years, especially considering that Dooku left the Jedi Order as soon as he heard of Qui-Gon's death as well as recieving information about Darth Sidious from Nute Gunray prior to his departure.

"OK. You are totally missing the "cause and effect" here. All the dialogue about the "Seperatists" refers them to them simply leaving the Republic, up until the point where Obi-wan discovers the droids! Therefore, to state that the Republic was aware of an upcoming and outright war for 10 years makes no sense."

Excuse me, but there is some dialogue that mentions the possibility of a war happening due to the Seperatist movement which I will post below:

Palpatine: I don't know how much longer I can hold off the vote, my friends. More and more star systems are pledging their alliegeance to Count Dooku.

Mace Windu: If they do break away...

Palpatine: I will not let the Republic, which has stood for a thousand years be split in two. My negotiations will not fail!

Mace Windu: If they do break away, you must realise that there aren't enough Jedi to protect the Republic. We're keepers of the peace, not soldiers.

Palpatine: Master Yoda, do you really think it will come to war?

Yoda: The Dark Side clouds everything! Impossible to see, the future is.

Sio Bibble: There hasn't been a full-scale war since the formation of the Republic.(There's more during the Queen Jamilla scenes, only I don't remember much of it.)

They do indeed know that a war is about to happen, it's just that they don't know when.

"Again, the Council and Senate didn't believe that Dooku would resort to assassination. If they knew that war was coming and Dooku is leading the Seperatists, then why would they be surprised at an assassination attempt?"

Because they didn't believe that it was in Dooku's character to commit murder.

Ki-Adi Mundi: He's a political idealist, not a murderer.

There's also the problem of them being "too sure of themselves" about Dooku since they knew that he used to be a Jedi.

"Show me where a Senator in AGFFA means that a person has no personal life or time to themselves. Were this the case, how do you explain Palpatine running around as Sidious?"

Sidious is using his "Palpatine" persona to GET INTO POLITICS so he can achieve ultimate power. He wouldn't have accomplished everything we've seen in the saga so far if he wasn't in politics.

"In fact, you contradict yourself again, since your post started with...

You're contradicting yourself too.

If every senator does have personal lives, then prove it. Otherwise, don't waste my time with this nonsense.

"As a matter of fact, I don't believe that, but you continually state or imply that very scenario to explain why Padme couldn't get a couple of days to herself to ffree Shmi, much less do anything for herself.

Not to mention the fact that you've not only not proven that Padme doesn't do anything for herself, but the fact that she falls in love with Anakin pretty much puts an end to your reasoning."

 

A planet full of people living on your home planet vs. one slave on another planet.

You do the math.

There's so much she could do for others, she has to face the fact that there are certain things that will slip through her fingers.

Seeing as how the planet full of people owe their lives to her son, you'd figure they wouldn't mind. I doubt they'd be THAT selfish.

"Her son may have saved us from the Trade Federation, but our needs come first, so screw her."

 

gezvader-

"Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?"

When you attempt to make a point, make your point. Don't undermine your own ideals with silly commentary. I think it's time to do a 180 on the whole thread creator = non-basher theory. Like the mod said, walk away...just...just walk away.

It's hard to believe people spent their whole weekends debating something so minute. The idea of slavery itself(going back to original post) is not trivial, but I don't think it was supposed to be that big of a deal for movie watchers. This is only my opinion and is the last thing I'll post in this thread. I have no desire to force my ideals/opinions on someone else. Everyone enjoy their week and try to be happy.

 

PMT99-
She is but she's way too far out of Padme's reach.

? It?s established in the films that Tatooine is relatively close to Naboo, she goes there twice, remember.

Since you are making it sound like Padme's responsibility of freeing Shmi is more important than any other crisis that is happening in the galaxy but that situation is too personal and I just told you in my earlier post that personal matters shouldn't get in the way of duty or else, there would be consequences

Why do you keep trying to categorise this as a personal matter? Shmi helped her in a time of great crisis, risked everything to help her, and yet you believe that Padme decided to leave her in slavery because to help her would be a ?personal matter?? I think the citizens of Naboo would disagree with you, they would be rather pleased that Shmi gave food and shelter to their Queen and then risked everything to help her thus giving Amidala the chance to go on and free her people.
?Personal matter? - ?? good grief!
It?s a matter of human decency.


If every senator does have personal lives, then prove it. Otherwise, don't waste my time with this nonsense.

If you watch both TPM and AOTC, there is not 1 scene where Padme has any personal time to herself and you on the other hand, haven't shown any proof that she does.

Not 1 scene eh? Okay well let?s see :
Goes to lakeside with Anakin has a chat, some kissing.
Goes on a picnic, frolics in the grass.
Has dinner with Anakin, conversation etc.
Has an intimate fireside chat with potential boyfriend.
Cut scenes ? returns to visit and have dinner with family.

Of course she has personal time, even senators have personal time. It seems to me - you?re just desperate to imagine she doesn?t because you?ve put Shmi?s plight into a ?Personal Matter? category and now you?ve got to eliminate ?personal time? from Padme?s life. You?re arguing for a portrayal of Padme which is not only unbelievable but is also contradicted by the films.

The only reason she fell in love with Anakin is because she has nothing better to do considering that Palpatine gave her an executive order to leave Coruscant and that Anakin's been flaunting his feelings for her left and right.

She had ?nothing better to do?? I thought you said she was constantly on duty looking after Naboo? Make up your mind.
So for the 10 years between TPM and AOTC there was always something more important than helping Shmi, but then 20 minutes into AOTC she suddenly has nothing better to do than go on picnics etc.?

A planet full of people living on your home planet vs. one slave on another planet.
You do the math.

What a ridiculous notion - helping Shmi would mean she suddenly abandons the people of Naboo. These extreme scenarios are absurd.



Me: "Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?"
Lordofthebling-

When you attempt to make a point, make your point. Don't undermine your own ideals with silly commentary.

I thought that quote made my point rather well, unfortunately you don?t seem to have understood it, see below*

I think it's time to do a 180 on the whole thread creator = non-basher theory.

And by categorising me as a ?basher? makes what point?.?
And would there be something wrong in being a ?basher??
(Actually this isn?t the first time I?ve come across this type of thinking recently)

Like the mod said, walk away...just...just walk away.

Are you talking to me or yourself?

It's hard to believe people spent their whole weekends debating something so minute.

*Is it any harder to believe that - someone who thinks the debate is so trivial would spend their time posting on it?
If you have something pertinent to the debate then give it, otherwise ? don?t spam the thread with remarks about how ?minute? you think it is. This is the second time you?ve done so, I think it?s rather rude to those of us who do think it worth debating.


anidanami-
Then you go back to T

 

Tatooine is NOT a part fo the Republic. They have no jurisdiction there, so if the Hutts want slavery, that's what they get.

 

ObiWan and only-
Tatooine is NOT a part fo the Republic. They have no jurisdiction there, so if the Hutts want slavery, that's what they get.

Okay. Well I think everyone here is aware of that.
Perhaps you could elaborate on what point you're trying to make, for instance - are you disagreeing with a point made?

g

 

She had ?nothing better to do?? I thought you said she was constantly on duty looking after Naboo? Make up your mind.

Not to become embroiled in this, but what I believe he's saying is that she has no personal time and is constantly on duty until Palpatine gives her the executive order to leave Coruscant, at which point all of your examples of her free time take place. So in other words, she has no free time until that order is given.

I'm most assuredly not getting into this argument, simply clarifying a point that was made.

 

Considering openmind's post.

1) First of all, it looks very familiar.

2) Considering Padme's obvious surprise of slavery being practiced at all, what makes you think she would subsequently be aware of the possible political effects of freeing a slave. She can't be aware of something she didn't even know existed, right?

3) "While UNICEF understands the humanitarian instincts of school children in the United States and others to purchase the freedom of slaves, the sobering truth is that these efforts will not end the enslavement of human beings." - seems clear to me they aren't stating the freeing of slaves to be a bad practice, simply that it doesn't affect slavery as a whole. You've managed to replicate my Underground Railroad scenario perfectly: Since not all slaves were freed, nor the institution of slavery affected, the Underground Railroad was a bad idea, by your own reasoning. I gave you the benefit of the doubt to say that you truly didn't believe this. Please tell me I was correct in that assumption.

4) If freeing a slave automatically led to a war scenario (with the Hutts), then where is the "war" after Qui-gon frees Anakin? Where is the "war" after Cliegg frees Shmi?

5) Even if we were to accept the fact that Padme was obligated to free all slaves as well as Shmi...

a) Does that mean she must free all the slaves all at the same time? After freeing Shmi, is it unreasonable to expect Padme to continue such anti-slave efforts in the Senate? Your own post states "The entire international community should be prepared to assist in achieving peace in Sudan and in addressing the reconstruction and development needs of communities affected by slavery." This was a valid concern raised by anidanami124.

b) As has been stated before, slavery will always exist in some form or another (see the excellent previously stated Roman example.) Since this will always be the case, do you argue that no effort should ever been made to free any slaves in any situation, since doing so will never truly prevent it being practiced somewhere else in the galaxy? Do you honestly support the assertion that if one can't free all the slaves, then one shouldn't free any slaves?

" Since you are making it sound like Padme's responsibility of freeing Shmi is more important than any other crisis that is happening in the galaxy but that situation is too personal and I just told you in my earlier post that personal matters shouldn't get in the way of duty or else, there would be consequences."

"Consequences"? How specific of you. Why on Earth would taking a day or two to free Shmi interfere with the rest of Padme's duties?

"Fair enough, but that doesn't mean it's been happening for 10 years."

"You don't know that."

And neither do you. That being the case, it's not proof either way, thus it's a moot point.

"Sidious is using his "Palpatine" persona to GET INTO POLITICS so he can achieve ultimate power. He wouldn't have accomplished everything we've seen in the saga so far if he wasn't in politics."

Agreed, but then again, being a Senator (like Padme) and then being Chancellor of the Republic, how on Earth is he able to find time to be Sidious as well. By your own belief, such a feat is impossible, because Senators, and presumably Chancellors as well, have no time to do anything other than be Senators and Chancellors, right? By your reasoning, we would never see Sidious, because that would require him to......* drumroll please *.....not be Palpatine!

"If every senator does have personal lives, then prove it. Otherwise, don't waste my time with this nonsense."

Since you honestly and truly believe this to be a reasonable scenario, I fail to see what the point would be. ?

"If you watch both TPM and AOTC, there is not 1 scene where Padme has any personal time to herself and you on the other hand, haven't shown a

 

Therefore, such events don't exist? We don't see the characters go to the bathroom, either. Is it equally reasonable to conclude that no one in AGFFA defecates?

*pictures Yoda defecating*

...

*falls out of chair laughing*

BTW, if Padme has no personal time to herself, how does she get married?

Not only that, when would she get the time to concieve Luke and Leia?

 

Not only that, when would she get the time to concieve Luke and Leia?

Shmi proved that it doesn't take that long if you're on a busy schedule.

And maybe Padme not having time to do that sort of thing explains Anakin's fall to the dark side.



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