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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Slavery = OK....?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Phantom Menace' started by gezvader28, Oct 20, 2003.

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  1. Loco_for_Lucas

    Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    ANAKIN: "Padme, what did the doctor say?"
    PADME: "He said I'm pregnant."
    ANAKIN: "That's great! It'll be wonderful, we'll be one big happy f-- hold on a second...how can you be pregnant? I was away fighting in the Clone Wars for two years."
    PADME: "Uh...this is an...umm...immaculate conception...yeah...that's it...immaculate conception. It's the will of the Force, the Midichlorians, they are the ones responsible."
    ANAKIN: "Oh please, Qui-gon told me he was pulling my leg about that whole Midichlorian thing."
    MACE: "Hey, baby, what'd the doctor sa...oh crap."
     
  2. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    "And maybe Padme not having time to do that sort of thing explains Anakin's fall to the dark side."

    Two words: NO FOREPLAY [face_laugh]
     
  3. AdamBertocci

    AdamBertocci Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2002
    ... which would explain why she was "beautiful, kind... but sad".


    Rick McCallum loves you!
     
  4. Lord_of_the_Bling

    Lord_of_the_Bling Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 6, 2003
    "That's rich. Nice parting shot. Careful not to soil yourself by posting in such irrelevant threads."

    Smooth. I may be a newbie, but I've seen your name around here in other forums MeBe and I've come to expect more from you than this. If I believed the thread was irrelevant, I would have never posted in it. Nevertheless, I still think you have very valid things to say. I'll say no more than that.

    As far as the original thread creator is concerned, this thread was created in the form of a Question. It is a question for which the creator does not seek more than the answer that he/she has already settled upon. I've only stated my opinion on the subject.

    Next time, instead of:
    "Has he inadverdantly put across the idea that slavery aint so bad?"(Question)
    State:
    "He has inadverdantly put across the idea that slavery aint so bad."(Statement)

    That way, individuals will know that you are not asking their opinions, but that you are attempting impose your own beliefs on them. My opinion is still that Shmi's slavery was a backdrop, or plot device, that furthered the story. For me, that's what it is, that's what it will be. I really have enjoyed my time in this thread, but at this point, it's become just a downer.

    Have a good day/week/month/year. :)
     
  5. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    LordoftheBling-
    As far as the original thread creator is concerned, this thread was created in the form of a Question. It is a question for which the creator does not seek more than the answer that he/she has already settled upon.


    I have been both amazed and entertained by a lot of the posts on this thread ? not something which would would happen if I was only seeking my own answer.
    I have been discussing the topic and issues raised, you continue to pop in with unfounded attacks on the thread?s validity . Clearly it is you who does not want the debate. Hmm?.wonder why?.

    I've only stated my opinion on the subject.

    And I am entitled to disagree with your opinion. This is a public forum.

    Next time, instead of:
    "Has he inadverdantly put across the idea that slavery aint so bad?"(Question)
    State:
    "He has inadverdantly put across the idea that slavery aint so bad."(Statement)

    That way, individuals will know that you are not asking their opinions, but that you are attempting impose your own beliefs on them.


    Excuse me ? who?s ?imposing their own beliefs? ?
    Let?s see ? I have posted my opinions, responded to others? opinions, asked them to clarify when I?m uncertain of what they?re saying, disagreed , given my reasons.

    You, on the other hand announce that I?m not looking for anything but my own answers and tell me that I should re-phrase my thread title so that I sound like the blinkered bully you want to paint me as.
    And you?re saying that I am imposing my beliefs on others ?!?
    The words ?irony ? and ?hypocrisy? spring to mind.

    My opinion is still that Shmi's slavery was a backdrop, or plot device, that furthered the story. For me, that's what it is, that's what it will be.

    Yes, you have said that, several days ago, and I have disagreed and given my reasons, and I have asked you to clarify why you think that and whether you think Padme would see it the same way.
    You haven?t answered. That?s okay, you?re under no obligation to. However I can?t help noting that since then you have instead chosen to - attack the validity of the thread, made stupid remarks about my sanity as a SW fan , made veiled insults about bashers, and accused me of imposing my beliefs on others.
    And you have the gall to accuse me of not wanting a debate!

    Have a good day/week/month/year.

    Can I suggest that if you pop in to say goodbye again that you stick to discussing the topic/issues raised.

    I have responded to your off-topic remarks this time because I felt I should defend myself, but if you continue this I will refer it to a Mod, I'm not going to be baited into derailing my own thread.

    g
     
  6. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000
    Loco for Lucas-

    "Seeing as how the planet full of people owe their lives to her son, you'd figure that they wouldn't mind. I doubt they'd be THAT selfish.

    "Her son may have saved us from the Trade Federation, but our needs come first, so screw her." "

    But nobody on Naboo (besides Padme and Jar Jar) knows who Anakin and Shmi are. They've never seen them or met them so they could careless about their problems and for all they know, the only person that saved them was their beloved Queen.

    "Not only that, but when will she get the time to concieve Luke and Leia?"

    Probably when Anakin gets time off from fighting in the Clone Wars.


    Gezvader28-

    "?[face_plain] It's established in the films that Tatooine is relatively close to Naboo, she goes there twice, remember?"

    Only because in TPM, she made a quick detour there due to her ship being damaged by the attack from the Trade Federation while in AOTC, she was fearful for Anakin's safety because she doesn't know what will happen to him while he's trying to save his mom which is why she wanted to go with him.

    "Why do you keep trying to categorise this as a personal matter?"

    Because her job is to be the Queen of Naboo, not a private crusader roaming around the galaxy freeing slaves. That's what I mean by it being a personal matter because while Padme is busy trying to free Shmi, Naboo is overrun with anarchy and chaos since there is no Queen around to maintain peace and order since noone knows where she is which is the consequences of Padme's attempt to free Shmi....an out-of control planet with no leader just so one slave can be free.

    Look what's happening to Iraq now that Saddam Hussein has a missle shoved up his ass.

    "Not 1 scene eh? Okay well let's see:

    Goes to lakeside with Anakin has a chat, some kissing.
    Goes on a picnic, frolics in the grass.
    Has dinner with Anakin, conversation etc.
    Has an intimite fireside chat with potential boyfriend.
    Cut scenes- returns to visit and have dinner with family."

    ""She had nothing better to do"? I thought you said she was constantly on duty looking after Naboo? Make up your mind."

    Once Palpatine gave her the executive order to leave Coruscant, Padme has nothing better to do but to spend her "personal time" with Anakin and as Lord Hydronium pointed out, the scenes you mentioned only happened prior to her being ordered to go back to Naboo so she never really had any time to herself until then.


    "What a ridiculous notion - helping Shmi would mean she suddenly abandons the people of Naboo. Those extreme scenarios are absurd."

    Oh sure, the thought of a leaderless, anarchy-infested planet seems absurd to you but to me, it as serious as you can ever imagine. No leader can ever go anywhere for a second without letting his people know where he is going.

    Mebejedi-

    " "Consequences"? How specific of you [face_laugh] Why on Earth would taking a day or two to free Shmi interfere with the rest of Padme's duties?"

    Read above.

    "Agreed, but then again, being a Senator (like Padme) and then being a Chancellor of the Republic, how on Earth is he able to find time to be Sidious as well.
    By your own belief, such a feat is impossible, because Senators and presumably Chancellors as well, have no time to do anything other than be Senators and Chancellors, right? By your reasoning, we would never be Sidious, because that would require him to....*drumroll please*... not be Palpatine!"

    Possibly, but somehow he's found a way to be both Palpatine and Darth Sidious at the same time just as Clark Kent found a way to be Superman and work at the Daily Planet as Clark Kent without letting anyone know that he's Superman.

    "Since you honestly and truly believe this to be a reasonable scenario, I fail to see what the point would be. ?[face_plain]"

    In real life, everyone us who has a job would have to ask our bosses permission to take time off from work and the Senators in the GFFA would be the same way.

    "If Padme has no personal time to herself, how does she get married?"

    By doing it in secret because
     
  7. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    "They've never seen them or met them so they could careless about their problems and for all they know, the only person that saved them was their beloved Queen. "

    No one knows of the boys who singlehandedly stopped the droid invasion force? ?[face_plain]

    No one say him at the celebration at the end of TPM?

    Did you see him? I did! [face_laugh]

    "Not only that, but when will she get the time to concieve Luke and Leia?"

    "Probably when Anakin gets time off from fighting in the Clone Wars."


    This is ridiculous! Are you saying Anakin had the children all by himself? In case you weren't aware, it takes two people to have a baby! Maybe a warrior is given some "personal time" in the middle of a war, but you've stated matter of factly, over and over, that Padme has no personal time as a Senator, much less being personally highly involved in the middle of an ongoing war. When does Padme have the time to marry and conceive childen, if you truly believe that she cannot have any personal time? ?[face_plain] ?[face_plain] ?[face_plain]

    "Only because in TPM, she made a quick detour there due to her ship being damaged by the attack from the Trade Federation while in AOTC, she was fearful for Anakin's safety because she doesn't know what will happen to him while he's trying to save his mom which is why she wanted to go with him."

    So, she can make personal time when she so chooses to?

    "Because her job is to be the Queen of Naboo, not a private crusader roaming around the galaxy freeing slaves."

    Quit overgeneralizing. It took a few days to free Anakin, with no ill effects. It wouldn't take much longer to do the same for Shmi. We are not talking about every slave on Tatooine, much as you'd like to believe this to suit your own argument.

    "Once Palpatine gave her the executive order to leave Coruscant, Padme has nothing better to do but to spend her "personal time" with Anakin and as Lord Hydronium pointed out, the scenes you mentioned only happened prior to her being ordered to go back to Naboo so she never really had any time to herself until then."

    She was ordered to Coruscant to be safe. Going to Geonosis was not "safe". She did that on her own personal time.

    "Possibly, but somehow he's found a way to be both Palpatine and Darth Sidious at the same time just as Clark Kent found a way to be Superman and work at the Daily Planet as Clark Kent without letting anyone know that he's Superman. "

    Same goes for Padme. She did have handmaidens, remember? ;)

    "In real life, everyone us who has a job would have to ask our bosses permission to take time off from work and the Senators in the GFFA would be the same way."

    So, now she can have free time? Good answer.

    "She won't give up on the Republic....not until Palpidious changes it into the galactic Empire we know from the OT."

    So, taking some personal time to marry and have kids doesn't prevent her from doing her job, then neither would freeing Shmi.
     
  8. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    BTW, I would assume that Padme would work even harder when the Republic becomes the Empire, but that's just me. :)
     
  9. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000
    "No one knows of the boys who singlehandedly stopped the droid invasion force? ?[face_plain]"

    We never saw anyone congradulating Anakin during the celebration nor did they even greet the kid so how are they suppose to know that he was the one that blew up the Droid Control Ship?

    "This is ridiculous! Are you saying that Anakin had the children all by himself? In case you weren't aware, it takes two people to have a baby!"

    You're misinterpreting me.

    I said when Anakin gets time off from fighting in the Clone Wars, he will go to Padme, get her in the sack, start that love machine, and BOOM....Luke and Leia are concieved.

    "When does Padme have time to get marry and concieve children, if you truly believe that she cannot have any personal time? ?[face_plain] ?[face_plain] ?[face_plain]"

    That question was answered at the end of AOTC because Anakin and Padme were getting married in secret while the Clone Wars is getting started. Neither the Jedi or the Senate knows of their marriage because if they did, there would be hell to pay and there would be a much bigger firestorm if they knew that Padme is bearing Anakin's children.

    "So, she can make personal time when she so chooses to?"

    Both events happened in secret because the Republic doesn't know that:

    -the Trade Federation is invading Naboo.
    -Valorum sent Qui-Gon and Obi-wan to Naboo to settle the conflict.
    -The 2 Jedi took Padme to Tatooine due to her ship being damaged.
    -They freed Anakin, a slave.

    nor that
    -Anakin is disobeying his mandate to protect Padme just so he can save his mom.

    Padme wouldn't have done all of this if it were public knowledge.

    "Quit overgeneralising. It took a few days to free Anakin, with no ill will effects."

    When Padme first met Anakin, she had no intentions of freeing him and neither did Qui-Gon until he sensed that Anakin is strong in the Force and has a midichlorian count bigger than Yoda's. Anakin's occupation on Tatooine wasn't even known by the Jedi, the Republic, or to the people of Naboo so they had no way of knowing that Ani's mom was a slave too.

    "She was ordered to Coruscant to be safe. Going to Geonosis was "not" safe. She did that on her own personal time."

    She also did it in secret since nobody knew that she was on the planet until the Jedi arrived.

    "Same goes for Padme. She did have handmaidens, remember? ;)"

    Yeah, but after TPM nobody is going to be fooled by the decoy trick, except for Zam Wessell but she wasn't around when the events of TPM took place.

    "So, now she can have free time? Good answer."

    Only if the Supreme Chancellor allowed it.

    "So, taking some personal time to marry and have kids doesn't pervent her from doing her job, then neither would freeing Shmi."

    Both Padme's marriage and kids are a secret so neither the Jedi or the Republic knows about either just as they don't know that Ani's mom is a slave so Padme can't do anything about Shmi since the Republic doesn't know what she did on Tatooine in TPM.
     
  10. Loco_for_Lucas

    Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    We never saw anyone congradulating Anakin during the celebration nor did they even greet the kid so how are they suppose to know that he was the one that blew up the Droid Control Ship?


    Palpatine walks up to Anakin and says "So, this is Young Skywalker. We will watch your career with much interest." So obviously people know what he did, unless it was just Palpatine who knew and it was the Dark Side that told him and not his publicist.

    You're misinterpreting me.

    I said when Anakin gets time off from fighting in the Clone Wars, he will go to Padme, get her in the sack, start that love machine, and BOOM....Luke and Leia are concieved.


    And where will Padme get the time to do that? I thought she had no personal time.

    That question was answered at the end of AOTC because Anakin and Padme were getting married in secret while the Clone Wars is getting started. Neither the Jedi or the Senate knows of their marriage because if they did, there would be hell to pay and there would be a much bigger firestorm if they knew that Padme is bearing Anakin's children.


    So she has time to take off from the Senate, go to Naboo, find their cozy little hideaway, find a minister, and get married? Even if it was in secret, if she was so important, wouldn't anyone notice she was gone?

    Both events happened in secret because the Republic doesn't know that:

    -the Trade Federation is invading Naboo.
    -Valorum sent Qui-Gon and Obi-wan to Naboo to settle the conflict.
    -The 2 Jedi took Padme to Tatooine due to her ship being damaged.
    -They freed Anakin, a slave.

    nor that
    -Anakin is disobeying his mandate to protect Padme just so he can save his mom.

    Padme wouldn't have done all of this if it were public knowledge.


    But they still happened. That doesn't mean she can't help Shmi in secret, it doesn't seem any of these characters mind doing stuff in secret without the Republic knowing about it.

    "Quit overgeneralising. It took a few days to free Anakin, with no ill will effects."

    When Padme first met Anakin, she had no intentions of freeing him and neither did Qui-Gon until he sensed that Anakin is strong in the Force and has a midichlorian count bigger than Yoda's. Anakin's occupation on Tatooine wasn't even known by the Jedi, the Republic, or to the people of Naboo so they had no way of knowing that Ani's mom was a slave too.


    That still doesn't explain why they can't help Shmi. The fact no one knows about her should actually make the transaction easier, since it wouldn't have a big hoop-la around it.

    She also did it in secret since nobody knew that she was on the planet until the Jedi arrived.


    But it was still possible, so she was able to take the time.

    Yeah, but after TPM nobody is going to be fooled by the decoy trick, except for Zam Wessell but she wasn't around when the events of TPM took place.


    Why not? Why wouldn't it work? It's worked before. We saw it work in AOTC. Was Zam Wessell really stupid or something and everyone else can tell?

    Only if the Supreme Chancellor allowed it.


    I guess the Supreme Chancellor allowed her and Anakin to concieve kids. "Okay, only if I can have a copy."

    Both Padme's marriage and kids are a secret so neither the Jedi or the Republic knows about either just as they don't know that Ani's mom is a slave so Padme can't do anything about Shmi since the Republic doesn't know what she did on Tatooine in TPM.


    You're still avoiding the issue, whether it was in secret or not doesn't matter. She was still able to run off and do what she does without any effect on her role as Senator.
     
  11. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    "That question was answered at the end of AOTC because Anakin and Padme were getting married in secret while the Clone Wars is getting started."

    Therefore, Padme could have freed Shmi in secret. Appreciate that. :)

    "Padme wouldn't have done all of this if it were public knowledge."

    So again, she would do it in secret. Excellent answer.

    "When Padme first met Anakin, she had no intentions of freeing him and neither did Qui-Gon"

    Meaning it had nothing to do with her plans. Nonetheless, Anakin was freed, and Padme was still able to accomplish her goals. Perfect.

    "She also did it in secret since nobody knew that she was on the planet until the Jedi arrived."

    So many things she's able to do in secrect. Guess we'll just add freeing Shmi to that growing list. ;)

    "Yeah, but after TPM nobody is going to be fooled by the decoy trick, except for Zam Wessell but she wasn't around when the events of TPM took place."

    Contradictory and ridiculous. Don't forget that Sidious ordered the hit, and he was around in TPM. Zam Wessell was acting under orders, not of her own accord.

    "Only if the Supreme Chancellor allowed it."

    Did he allow her stopever in Tatooine or Coruscant. Did he allow her wedding?

    Nope! She did it.........* drumroll *......in secret.

    "Both Padme's marriage and kids are a secret so neither the Jedi or the Republic knows about either just as they don't know that Ani's mom is a slave so Padme can't do anything about Shmi since the Republic doesn't know what she did on Tatooine in TPM."

    Can you write that in English?

    "Palpatine walks up to Anakin and says "So, this is Young Skywalker. We will watch your career with much interest." So obviously people know what he did, unless it was just Palpatine who knew and it was the Dark Side that told him and not his publicist."

    Bravo! [face_laugh]

    "The fact no one knows about her should actually make the transaction easier, since it wouldn't have a big hoop-la around it."

    Agreed.

    "Yeah, but after TPM nobody is going to be fooled by the decoy trick, except for Zam Wessell but she wasn't around when the events of TPM took place."

    "Why not? Why wouldn't it work? It's worked before. We saw it work in AOTC."


    Actually, she's not stopped using it in the ten years between TPM and AOTC. ;)
     
  12. Loco_for_Lucas

    Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    Actually, she's not stopped using it in the ten years between TPM and AOTC.


    Yep, she's been using it for ten years...in secret. ;)
     
  13. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000
    Loco for Lucas-
    "Palpatine walks up to Anakin and says, "So this is Young Skywalker. We will watch your career with much interest." So obviously people know what he did, unless it was just Palpatine who knew and it was the Dark Side that told him and not his publicist."

    The latter seems most likely.

    "And where will Padme get the time to do that? I thought she had not personal time."

    Only George Lucas knows the answer.

    "So she has time off from the Senate, go to Naboo, find their cozy little hideaway, find a minister, and get married? Even if it was a secret, wouldn't anyone notice that she's gone?"

    You could ask the same question about Palpatine since he's running around the galaxy plotting schemes as Darth Sidious. Besides, Padme is not in the Senate due to the fact that she's still under protective custody by the Jedi so its easy for her to do what she did with Anakin at the end of AOTC.

    "But they still happened. That doesn't mean she can't help Shmi in secret, it doesn't seem any of these characters mind doing stuff in secret without the Republic knowing about it."

    "That still doesn't explain why they can't help Shmi. The fact no one knows about her should make the transaction easier, since it wouldn't have a big hoop-la around it."

    Even if it was a secret, Padme still has nothing to offer in exchange for Shmi because the currency she has is worthless, neither the Republic or the Naboo government would allow her to sell their ships to some slave owner on a backwater planet even if she was the Queen, and she doesn't know where to find the kind of money that Watto considers "more real". The only reason that she, Obi-wan, and Qui-Gon did the things they did is because the crisis they're in was getting out of control and the Republic was too slow to act.

    Plus, her hands are tied from helping Naboo repair damages from the Trade Federation crisis and continuing her 2 terms as Queen so there's no way she can help Shmi even if she wanted to.

    "But it was still possible, so she was able to take the time."

    Only because noone was looking, she believed that they wouldn't get to Obi-wan in time, and the fact that things were out of hand.

    "Why not? Why wouldn't it work? It's worked before. We saw it work in AOTC. Was Zam Wessell really stupid or something and everyone else can tell?"

    Zam wasn't around when Padme revealed herself as Queen Amidala to the Gungans or when Nute Gunray mistaken her for a decoy when Sabe arrived and apprehended him. Had Gunray told Zam about the decoy trick, she would have succeeded in assassinating Padme.

    "I guess the Supreme Chancellor allowed her and Anakin to concieve kids. "Okay, only if I have a copy." "

    No, he wouldn't.

    If Palpidious had forseen that their offspring, namely Luke Skywalker, would one day destroy him, then he would have done everything in his power to prevent Anakin and Padme from consumating their relationship.

    "Your still avoiding the issue, whether it was in secret or not doesn't really matter. She was still able to run off and do what she does without any effect on her role as Senator."

    Padme did the things she did because she was put in these crisis situations and was forced to withheld information from the Republic due to their failure to act quickly.

    If they had known beforehand, she would not be as resourceful like she is right now.

    Mebejedi-

    "Therefore, Padme could have freed Shmi in secret. Appreciate that. :)"

    Except Padme doesn't like to make secrets.

    She even said so to Anakin when he suggested that they keep their relationship a secret:

    "We'd be living a lie, one we couldn't keep even if we wanted to. I couldn't live like that."

    The only reason that she does things in secret because she sees no other way around it due to quick brushes with death and the Republic's ineffectiveness.

    "Meaning it had nothing to do with her plans. Nonetheless, Anakin was freed, and Padme was able to accomplish her goals. Perfect."

    It's not that pefect nor was it that simple.

    "So many things she's able
     
  14. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    "The latter seems most likely."

    If only for the purpose of protecting the sanctity of your argument.

    "I thought she had not personal time."

    "Only George Lucas knows the answer."


    [face_laugh] Then what the heck have you been doing here all this time? This is like answering "It's all part of God's plan", which only means you have no clue how to explain it.

    Clearly, your theory doesn't take everything into account, as obvious contradictions can be easily drawn from it. That says a lot about your theory. ;)

    "You could ask the same question about Palpatine since he's running around the galaxy plotting schemes as Darth Sidious. Besides, Padme is not in the Senate due to the fact that she's still under protective custody by the Jedi so its easy for her to do what she did with Anakin at the end of AOTC."

    Actually, we need not ask that about Palps, because unlike you, we are aware that Senators, both in this world and AGFFA, do have personal time. Not only that, but the "protective custody" of the Jedi amounted to little more than Anakin following her around, so she was still able to go wherever she wanted.

    BTW, even if we wanted to pretend that Jedi protection was an obvious sticking point, it didn't happen until AOTC. I'm not going to grant your argument this unseen "protection" between the films anymore than you were willing to grant that Senators have unseen free time between the films. So much for that argument.

    Lastly, don't you think Palps has some sort of "protection" as Senator and especially Chancellor of the Senate.Have you seen those dudes in blue uniforms standing around him? He still runs around in his Sidious underoos besides that, so neither Senatorial nor Jedi protection is any great thing to talk about - if it were, Palpatine wouldn't have brought the idea up to the Jedi in the first place, would he? :D :D :D

    Padme was doing a better job with her handmaidens. ;)

    "Even if it was a secret, Padme still has nothing to offer in exchange for Shmi because the currency she has is worthless"

    Why are you falling back on an argument that has already been explained? Did you not forget that she and Anakin went back to Tatooine despite your assertion that they have no possible way of getting local funds? What, then, did they intend to do?

    Again, your theory cannot account for known events in the films.

    "neither the Republic or the Naboo government would allow her to sell their ships to some slave owner on a backwater planet even if she was the Queen"

    You have no idea if that is true or not, and to assume a queen has no power to do that at all is as ridiculous and self-serving as your "no personal time" rationale. Utterly baseless.

    "she doesn't know where to find the kind of money that Watto considers "more real".

    Having been there before, she knows far more about it than you do.

    "The only reason that she, Obi-wan, and Qui-Gon did the things they did is because the crisis they're in was getting out of control and the Republic was too slow to act."

    So they were only able to free Anakin because it was a crisis? ?[face_plain] That makes no sense. In fact, since the immediate "crisis" is over in TPM, Padme has plenty of personal time over the next 10 years to figure out a way for free Shmi.

    "Plus, her hands are tied from helping Naboo repair damages from the Trade Federation crisis and continuing her 2 terms as Queen so there's no way she can help Shmi even if she wanted to."

    Bull****. Show me the scene in TPM with all this "battle damage" that Naboo apparently suffered, that required 10 years of rebuilding.

    Are you saying Padme went in there with a hammer and did it herself? For 10 years!?! [face_laugh]

    Considering what little latitude you are willing to give for off-screen events, the fact that you would presume this scenario to support your argument is laughable.

    "Only because noone was looking, she believed that they wouldn't get to Ob
     
  15. Loco_for_Lucas

    Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    Loco for Lucas-
    "Palpatine walks up to Anakin and says, "So this is Young Skywalker. We will watch your career with much interest." So obviously people know what he did, unless it was just Palpatine who knew and it was the Dark Side that told him and not his publicist."

    The latter seems most likely.


    So, he pretty much let everyone know he uses the Dark Side of the Force? Since he says something he's not supposed to know, and couldn't otherwise, that would be a pretty dumb mistake for someone as "cunning" as Palpy.
     
  16. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    PMT99-
    Only because in TPM, she made a quick detour there due to her ship being damaged by the attack from the Trade Federation while in AOTC, she was fearful for Anakin's safety because she doesn't know what will happen to him while he's trying to save his mom which is why she wanted to go with him.

    And how exactly does this prove your idea that Tatooine is beyond her reach??

    Because her job is to be the Queen of Naboo, not a private crusader roaming around the galaxy freeing slaves. That's what I mean by it being a personal matter because while Padme is busy trying to free Shmi, Naboo is overrun with anarchy and chaos since there is no Queen around to maintain peace and order since noone knows where she is which is the consequences of Padme's attempt to free Shmi....an out-of control planet with no leader just so one slave can be free.

    "roaming around the galaxy freeing slaves"? What are you talking about?
    So if Padme tries to organise Shmi's freedom you belive that Naboo would immediately fall into anarchy and chaos - ??
    What sort of society do you think Naboo is?
    It's presented as quite an advanced culture, peaceful, civilized etc. and yet you seem to think that it's on the verge of anarchy.
    And that Amidala is the only one maintaining law and order - ?[face_plain]
    Do you think that if Tony Blair left the UK for a summit meeting or for a holiday that the country would fall into immediate anarchy??
    A civilised society has various levels of management, it's not all down to one individual.
    Please - let's have some sort of realistic thinking.

    Oh sure, the thought of a leaderless, anarchy-infested planet seems absurd to you but to me, it as serious as you can ever imagine.

    Hysterical nonsense.

    No leader can ever go anywhere for a second without letting his people know where he is going.

    And then you immediately contradict yourself by saying how Palpy has a Clark Kent routine! [face_laugh]

    Once Palpatine gave her the executive order to leave Coruscant, Padme has nothing better to do but to spend her "personal time" with Anakin and as Lord Hydronium pointed out, the scenes you mentioned only happened prior to her being ordered to go back to Naboo so she never really had any time to herself until then.

    So I'll ask again - are you saying that for 10 years Padme was prevented from helping Shmi because she was constantly busy on more important matters 24/7, but that as soon as Palpy ordered her to return to Naboo she suddenly found she had nothing to do?
    It just isn't anywhere near reality or likelihood.
    Plus - she ignores Palpy's executive order!

    In real life, everyone us who has a job would have to ask our bosses permission to take time off from work and the Senators in the GFFA would be the same way.

    real life, good. Let me ask you - in real life can you think of any Senators who don't have personal time?

    Both Padme's marriage and kids are a secret so neither the Jedi or the Republic knows about either just as they don't know that Ani's mom is a slave so Padme can't do anything about Shmi since the Republic doesn't know what she did on Tatooine in TPM.

    What? I didn't understand that paragraph at all.

    Even if it was a secret, Padme still has nothing to offer in exchange for Shmi because the currency she has is worthless, neither the Republic or the Naboo government would allow her to sell their ships to some slave owner on a backwater planet even if she was the Queen, and she doesn't know where to find the kind of money that Watto considers "more real".

    Goods = money. Padme would have to be a complete moron not to understand this basic concept of economics. and since (according to you) she's running the planet single-handedly I'd assume she aint that dumb.
    Take some goods that are highly valued to Tatooine, sell them, then you have Tatooine currency. She doesn't even have to do it herself.



    Your scenarios are so extreme they bear no relation to reality, nor to the world presented in the movies.
     
  17. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    "What? I didn't understand that paragraph at all."

    * whew * Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that! [face_laugh]

    "you're just ruining much of the rest of the story in the attempt."

    * whew * Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that, too! [face_laugh] [face_laugh]
     
  18. Loco_for_Lucas

    Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    Interesting, if freeing Shmi would cause Naboo to plunge into anarchy and civil disorder, then they should have had a beheading instead of a celebration at the end of TPM, seeing as how she was a party to freeing Anakin. As we all know, the people of Naboo don't like slaves and think they should remain slaves, as they can't bear the thought of having them freed by their queen...
     
  19. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    Ahhh, but loco, you're missing the obvious.... ;)

    Nobody but Palpatine paid any attention to Anakin - the hero of the film who saved Naboo. All the pilots who saw him in the battle were nowhere to be seen in the celebration, so there's no way they could have told anyone else that Anakin was responsible for blowing up the big ship that controlled every single piece of military hardware on the ground, thus ending the battle less than 10 minutes after it started, resulting in minimal visible loss of structures and life, which would explain why everybody was so happy at the end of TPM.

    Hell, for all we know, one of those pilots probably took all the credit for himself, since there's obviously no way to contradict his story, right? [face_mischief]

    Wow, this is fun! [face_laugh]
     
  20. Loco_for_Lucas

    Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    Exactly, because Anakin destroyed the Federation Control Ship...in secret. ;)
     
  21. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh]

    BTW, did you notice that Anakin defied a direct order from Qui-gon in the process. What the hell was he thinking, destroying that battleship in his own free time during a war without permission!?! :p
     
  22. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000
    This is pointless!

    If you guys want to continue believing that Padme would've found a way to free Shmi, go right ahead but I'm not going to waste another minute explaining reasons why Padme couldn't free Shmi just so you would put words in my mouth, make faces to show that you're making fun of me, and dismissing my reasons by calling them trivial, absurd, etc.

    I'm through arguing with you!
     
  23. Onizuka

    Onizuka Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2003
    I think Qui-Gon already says it himself in the movie that Tatooine has nothing to do with the republic (even the republic's money won't work), so they can't control this issue.
     
  24. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    You mean, like freeing Anakin? ?[face_plain]
     
  25. openmind

    openmind Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2003
    "Round and round it goes, no don't you know" 8-} - Spandau Ballet in case you are wondering.

    The interesting thing about Qui Gon Jin freeing Anakin was that he gambled and Watto was so sure that Anakin could not win. Anakin's freedom wasn't supposed to be as far as Watto was concerned. Yet, as it turned out, Watto lost everything. He couldn't therefore benefit by losing Anakin.

    Padme on the other hand, IMO would have to gamble as well (which I think would be asking too much of her) or free Shmi paying for her, but then Watto would then realize having a slave would again be a benefit to him.

    I would think that since Padme is shocked about slavery still existing may then feel accountable for the continued business of slavery. That I feel she would not fair well with a Republic that she supports that deosn't allow slavery. Regardless whether Tattoine escapes the Republic's jurisdiction.

    Meanwhile Cliegg freeing Shmi is a much better way of showing the freedom of Shmi, because he loved her. At the same time, Cliegg is just a honest farmer, trying to make a living in Tattoine, much like his son Owen "who doesn't get involved" with the ruling power in the Galaxy.

    Personally I think this works well for the Saga.
     
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