ST Snoke completing Kylo's training

Snoke commented that he would complete Kylo Ren's training. After watching Kylo's powers and abilities and knowing he was trained by Luke prior to coming under Snoke's tutelage, it begs some questions:
1. If Kylo was not fully trained already, then why not?
2. What more training does Ren need for his training to be complete?
3. Is Snoke a Sith, or just a very powerful dark side user?
4. Was Kylo killing his father necessary to make the next step towards fully embracing the dark side in order for Snoke to complete his training?

Darth Sin!

 

1. Potentially to keep Kylo from being a threat to Snoke.
2. Plenty obviously. He couldn't beat a stormtrooper and a Jedi Initiate (Youngling). I understand that he was bleeding and emotionally compromised, but still.
3. I hope he's not a Sith.
4. I would imagine so. In the EU and in the current Star Wars canon there are people who are told to kill someone in cold blood to make their journey to the dark side complete.

 

How did Kylo even get off the base?

 

I don't think Snoke wanted to teach Kylo everything until he was certain he wouldn't go back to the light. But now he's passed the test of killing his father and proving he is definitely committed. So Kylo passed the test he thinks Vader failed.

 

Snoke tells his guy to get Kylo Ren and leave the base.

 

#4 answers #1 and #2. Only after he has fully embraced the Dark Side can his training be complete, similar to Anakin being ordered to wipe out the Separatists and then you see his eyes glow yellow.

As for #3, this is going to be a continuous debate that will drive people batty. There is the Snoke=Plagueis camp, the Snoke=resurrected Palpatine camp, and the Snoke=ancient Dark Side user camp. All have legitimate evidence to support their theory. My personal opinion is Snoke=ancient Dark Side user, severely injured by Luke years before TFA.

 

One thing I wonder about...

Kylo demonstrates a bunch of force powers that we've never seen in canon before. He can freeze blaster bolts in midair and paralyze people where they stand. He can knock someone unconscious with a gesture (and not like he beat her up with the force, more like he basically put her to sleep). He can invade other people's minds and pull out specific thoughts.

Where did he learn all this stuff? From Luke? From Snoke? Or was it self-taught, the way he seemingly taught himself how to make his saber?

 

In my opinion the storymakers are on a verge of completely destroying what Kylo could have been to this series. So I guess Kylo needed this "task" in order to maturate as a character and now he can complete his training. But like I said they have overplayed with this character...

Sent from my HTC One mini using Tapatalk

 

Seems to me like there's some "rite of passage" for Sith/Ren types ... for Kylo I guess that involved killing his father.

There's I think supposed to be some point of no return type thing where you do something so terrible you can't come back from it.

Also perhaps Snoke had reasons for purposely keeping Kylo weak (I'm sure he's aware that the last time the Emperor gave a Skywalker/Solo too much leeway it led to his undoing).

 

As far as 3 goes, my guess is he's not a Sith.

As for 4, in the novel Snoke and Kylo talk about sentimentality being Vader's one great weakness, and specifically that he didn't kill Luke when he had the chance being the reason that the Empire didn't prevail. I expect Snoke wanted proof that his own evil henchman was made of sterner dark side stuff.

 

For me, in some instances Kylo Ren seemed to show immense power and skill in using the dark side of the Force. Then on another hand he did not seem all that powerful when an ex-Stormtrooper holds his own with him to some degree (of course Finn as a Stormtrooper obviously had some level of fighting skills from his training, but not with a saber), and an untrained, obviously very powerful Force-sensitive person in that of Rey.

So for me at this early point in the saga, Kylo showed more power and skills than he should have for not being fully trained yet. I thought it interesting that Kylo was telling Rey when they fought that she needed someone to train her (speaking of himself, maybe believing he himself was fully trained), and he himself was not fully trained. Hmmmm....

Darth Sin!

 

Freezing the blaster bolt is similar to Galen Marek stopping missiles in the air. The blaster bolt was a one shot, not many, its doubtful he could stop multiple shots at once and he still has to take out whoever or whatever is firing them off. He stopped Rey's arm from lifting but he no where again does anything like that to either Finn or Rey later on. So the abilities are rather awkward and inconsistent.

 

We know from the previous entries in the Saga that Sith Lords hold sway over their apprentice by promising them more and more power. I saw Snoke's comment as more of a persuasive suggestion than an actual inference that Kylo Ren was not up to par, but I also got the sense that Kylo is not a particularly adept force-user, just insanely powerful due to his lineage, so it could be that he really does need more training in the dark side of the Force.

As for the question of whether or not Snoke is a Sith, I highly doubt they will ever bring back the concept of Sith as seen in the prequels so my guess is they will just continue down the path of their being 'light side' and 'dark side' Force-users. I personally love the Sith, so such a revelation would intrigue me, but I just cannot see them going that route based on what everyone has said in interviews.

I think Han being killed was necessary. I can't imagine more loving family than the Solo/Skywalker clan, and you can tell that the path Kylo had taken was really bothering Kylo. Killing his dad just erases one of the reasons to turn back to the light.

 

What will make Ben more powerful?

Will it be something that gets unlocked by his anger or even rage, like Palpatine said to Anakin 'I can feel your anger, it gives you focus, makes you stronger!". But the thing is, will Ben ever lose the conflict he has?

 

Forgiveness is not the way of the dark side. It is probably likely Kylo will get bolted by Snoke for his failure and learns the true nature of the Force and he attempts to replace him with Rey eventually or a clone of Anakin or Sidious. Ben becomes good again by the end. Most likely Luke and Rey will be Jinn and Kenobi/Anakin and Kenobi duo and they wipe out Ren's "knights".

 

Great point. I think Snoke may have a very different knowledge of the Force than the Sith. This difference could very well be reflected in some of the new things we see Ren do.

 

Step one: Don't punch open wounds..........

 

Yeah, I don't think Snoke is Sith either. I would guess that whatever the KOR's skill with the Force is, they are not lightsaber users, either. That would seem to remain a Jedi ( and so also Sith ) thing.

I'd guess that some of the new abilities, such as stopping the laser blast, come from Snoke's teachings. I get the impression that Snoke has mental abilities that we haven't seen in the saga so far.

 

Snoke was hesitant to train Kylo because he ran into some trouble with his last apprentice.

 

He was about to cross a field of hand mines when suddenly this old guy steps out of a blue box and- oh hang on...

 

I'm hoping it goes back to a Knights of Ren type deal. I.E. Another philosophy in the galaxy that uses the dark side, sort of like the night sisters, etc. My biggest gripe with the movie is starkiller base. There is no need to try to one up the OT with bigger threats. So, having said all that, I'm hoping that they don't try to make Snoke out to be > than Palpatine.

My 2 cents.

In Christ forever,
Mike
John 3:16

 

I see Kylo/Snoke story being a reversal of Luke/Yoda.

Luke was on the path to become a Jedi. He was partially trained by Ben, and then by Yoda. He's quick to want to know more, but his training is halted when he ran off to save his friends He promises to complete it one day. Yoda and Ben both wanted him to confront his father, as a test of resisting the darkside. Only then will he be a true Jedi.

Here we have the reverse of that.

Kylo is on the path of the darkside. He may have been partially trained by Luke in some capacity, but now he's being trained by Snoke. He's quick to want to know everything but he must prove his worth and devotion to the darkside. He tells us that he can feel the seduction of the light side, just as Luke once felt the darkside pulling at him. Once he confronts his own father, and kills him, his chosen path is set.

Kylo yearns for the darkside and wants to reestablish the Knights of Ren, in the same way that Luke wants to set up a new Jedi order. So I don't think we're seeing another redemption story here. We're not getting an opposite Anakin story, we're getting an opposite Luke story. And a story of two ideology's fighting each other and who's side wins in rebuilding a new order. (Perhaps one, perhaps both the dark and the light)

 

Snoke's true identity is yet to be revealed. That's for Episode 8:

 

You get the impression Snoke didn't want to teach Kylo Ren too much until he was forced to. Now he is forced to with the Rey and Luke situation.

Also why didn't any of the other Knights of Ren have lightsabers? Are they not force sensitives or did Snoke purposely only let Kylo Ren get a crystal to power one. Also that is strange that Kylo's lightsaber is a design from a few thousand years ago according to the VD I think. Why did Snoke (I am guessing it was his pushing Kylo to have that kind of lightsaber) want him to wield that ancient style lightsaber?

 

Makes sense. Light and Dark users rather than all these special users like Sith etc. That being said, I think Snoke has absolutely no force powers, but is a master manipulator that took advantage of the power vacuum in the wake of the Empire falling. He's just leading Ren on while Ren just bobbles around trying to figure things out for himself. Yeah, he may have some good powers, but he's a mess...much like Luke was after leaving Yoda in ESB.

Alas, this sophisticated plot/backstory may be too much for the new trilogy. They are going with 'on the nose' story telling and symbolism. Snoke is bad, no need to explain who or where he comes from. In fact, no need to explain anything. Kind of like a TV the director was involved with. Snoke=Smoke Monster!