ST Snoke possessing Luke in 8

I like the thinking behind this--it helps to explain the question of "What Snoke is really up to" (there's a thread about this, but I don't quite remember the name of it).

The idea that he simply wants...

...for its own sake would definitely work because it makes complete sense. It's tried and true. It's safe.

But I think The Story Group® isn't going to go that route because they want their accomplishments to be the product of an environment that cultivates creativity, and at least some of them would be unenthusiastic about this direction. If the agenda of The Bad Guy® serves only to achieve ultimate power and seize control over the galaxy for him, I would wager that most of them wouldn't feel as inspired when brainstorming about the various avenues the antagonist(s) will take to reach this goal. Understanding this, I think it was likely established early on that they would need to be more creative when determining The Ultimate Nefarious Goal®.*

However, I'm with Thrawn082 in that Luke being bested in Force-acuity to that degree (possession/mind control) would be inconsistent with the overall narrative established thus far--Luke shouldn't be susceptible to such an overwhelming drubbing.

Still, Snoke needs to be especially threatening, eventually. He's afraid of Luke and he wants to kill Luke because he's threatened by Luke. But by having the antagonist come across as an underdog of sorts, the story group has deliberately (and bravely) waded into extremely uncertain and choppy waters. To be clear, though, it's a breath of fresh air. To me, they've done the impossible so far--I never would have thought it could be done effectively (especially in Star Wars). [Additionally, this is one of a few reasons why I think they've decided that they will not be content with a conventional and predictable end-goal for Snoke.]

To steer more toward the point: I don't think "dark side possession" would be a satisfying objective either, frankly. It's the stuff of 40s and 50s pulp horror and sci-fi tropes. As Dra--- pointed out in the other thread, those behind the production of these movies are aiming higher in terms of plot (postmodern narrative structure, upending expectations, etc.). When Indiana Jones was subject to that sort of thing in Temple of Doom, it worked because that's the type of nostalgic atmosphere and "feel" Lucasberg wanted to embrace. You can say "but Lucas always blah blah Flash Gordon blah serials blah blah matinee blah, and blah blah" all you want--at this point it's nonsense. "Been there, done that" in several ways. To fall back on this flimsy justification for telling a ho-hum story would be to risk curtailing intrigue for a portion of their audience. The sole reason they've assembled a group of intellectual windbags to focus on just developing the continued saga's story is because they know so much is at stake and all of the decisions that will have to be made to maximize the probability for a lasting narrative require very careful contemplation and lots of focused thought.

So, where is all of this heading?

There's only one way to maximize the tension and suspense between VIII and IX.

Snoke--the antagonist--will have to reach the precipice from which he (and the viewer) can clearly see victory over the good guys.

There's only one way for the story to play out.

This may be tough for many to swallow, but...

Spoiler: DO NOT OPEN if your nickname is @nightangle or @Starocean90

...Luke is going to die at the end of Episode VIII. POSSIBLY in the first act of Episode IX, but my money is on VIII's climax. The fate of the Republic *has* to be in the hands of the new trio of heroes. Outside of materializing from the ether and parroting the encouraging words of Obi-Wan or participating in the occasional Force Ghost Pep Club rally, Luke can't have any direct contribution to the achievement of the heroes. Otherwise, there was no point in having brought them into the narrative in the first place.

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* - Note that Kevin J. Anderson, for instance, is not a member of this story group.
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MotherNature's SilverSeed yes you warned me, but I could not resist. I would agree with you in case we had the normal route and a beginning with Luke + his Jedi order and then hell breaks lose. But we have a different approach this time and Luke was gone a long time before TFA even starts with his whole life work desroyed. Now after 1 movie and him buiding up as the most imporant figure, I cannot imagine the writers are so bad to kill Luke off before he is able to give a lasting legacy. Vader/Anakin made a lasting legacy (a bad one) and his son should leave a lasting legacy (a good one) as well. Even Leia has a better legacy right now as Luke with her leading at least the resistance (ok the writers could also destroy this in the next one ). I just don't want to give any thought that they would ruin Luke in such a way and leave him as a complete failure.

 

I don't think he'd be "a complete failure." If he trains Rey and gives her everything she needs to become a true badass (which he surely will...?) and Rey is ultimately victorious in putting an end to Snoke/Kylo/Hux's evilness, then he essentially saved the galaxy...again. I mean the guy already has a "legacy"; he's the most heroic Jedi in GFFA history.

But if both of us look at my insistence that this will happen objectively, we should see that my comments are nothing more than one person's $0.02. In other words, don't worry. I could certainly be way off (though I stand firmly by my prediction), and if I'm not, you should rest assured that the story group and Rian will leave you more than satisfied with Luke's swan song.

 

Nope, his legacy was destroyed before TFA starts and training only the new hope is nothing else than an OT rehash. If this is everything, we get the same story as the OT. And Luke would be remembered for nothing, since it would be Rey (and in case she is not Luke's daughter we have armageddon ) who restores the Jedi order finally. Sorry, but I will not be satisfied if it plays out like this. This would be simply lazy writing from people who cannot come up with an original idea. And I stand by this, it has to be Luke who restores the Jedi order after his first failure.

 

Alright, alright. Easy. C'mon now, let's try to keep it together. Chin up.

But...and don't kill me for this...I don't think he can. I mean, he will certainly at least lay the groundwork, but...if you want to see Luke training a handful of Force-sensitive students in the newly constructed Ki-Adi Mundi Training Facility at Force State University ("Okay guys, give me three more and then we'll break for space-lunch and pick it up af--FINN! What the hell are you doing now? Christ, how did Yoda do it..."), I think you should probably prepare yourself.for disappointment.

 

ok, then tell me difference between the OT and the ST? We had in the OT 2 dead mentors (Obi-Wan and Yoda) and at the end one new hope Jedi Luke. So what will we get now? 2 dead mentors (Han and Luke) and a new new hope Jedi Rey.
Sorry if I want to watch this, I can watch the OT movies again. I want something new. Please Rian save us from desaster, TFA was rehash enough.

 

So... would that be Snoke's power? To "possess" people? Would they have to call in a Jedi priest to exorcise him? "The power of Yoda compells you!" No, thanks.



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Luke's legacy wasn't destroyed before TFA starts. Luke was a fundamental part of destroying the Sith and the Empire, which led to thirty years of galactic peace. That's a legacy already.

And if he trains Rey in a new "Luke" way, perhaps with a greater emphasis on compassion, and Rey sets up the new Order, that will be an even greater legacy. In that case he would essentially be the equivalent of space Jesus, and Rey would be the founder of the first Christian church. Who is remembered more in history?

Your interpretation of "legacy" is far too narrow. And bound to lead to disappointment.

 

Yes I see it, I will be disappointed with this trilogy. And no, only training Rey is not enough, we had this before (complete OT rehash). The Jedi returned in ROTJ.....oh wait, no they didn't return there.....they return now 30 years later with new hope Rey, since flop Luke screwed it in his 30 years time that he had (or better said the writers screwed Luke). The worse is that Luke cannot even redeem himself for his failure. Please Rian save us from this.

 

Luke's only set back is the destruction of his school engineered (it seems) by Snoke. Snoke is obsessed with destroying the Jedi and also his focus seems to be also on destroying the Skywalker family.

Luke lost nothing of the legacy he built in the OT. This is a new challenge, as happens.

No way Snoke will further destroy the Skywalkers by possession. Of anyone. It is abundantly obvious in VII, he needs to continue training Kylo, wants Rey brought to him, and if complete possession was possible or desired, he would have done that on the younger ones having Force powers. As of this point it is influence and education and turning that are his tools.

 

Again, if Luke comes up with a new ethic for the Jedi, and trains Rey to carry that on, it's a huge legacy for him (and not a rehash of Yoda's legacy). Plus, Luke was also responsible for the destruction of the Sith. Neither Yoda nor Obi-wan were able to do that. A huge legacy from the OT (which was, of course, Luke's trilogy).

Luke's place in galactic history is already massive. Destroyer of the Sith. If he gets to train the next Jedi, even if just one of them, that's an added bonus, not a failure.

 

Again, if Luke comes up with a new ethic for the Jedi, and trains Rey to carry that on, it's a huge legacy for him (and not a rehash of Yoda's legacy). Plus, Luke was also responsible for the destruction of the Sith. Neither Yoda nor Obi-wan were able to do that. A huge legacy from the OT (which was, of course, Luke's trilogy).

Luke's place in galactic history is already massive. Destroyer of the Sith. If he gets to train the next Jedi, even if just one of them, that's an added bonus, not a failure.[/quote]

The old Jedi order lasted a thousand years and Luke's new order not even 20-30 years? Nope, the point is a Skywalker destroyed everything and a Skywalker should restore it. Ok, if Rey is Luke's daughter, the task could go over to her. If she is not.....then no idea what to think about all of this and the worse if Luke already dies in VIII.....but this is really worst case scenario and I don't want to think about it yet, at least not until we get valid rumors of such a butchering of Luke's character.

 

The old Jedi order lasted a thousand years and Luke's new order not even 20-30 years? Nope, the point is a Skywalker destroyed everything and a Skywalker should restore it. Ok, if Rey is Luke's daughter, the task could go over to her. If she is not.....then no idea what to think about all of this and the worse if Luke already dies in VIII.....but this is really worst case scenario and I don't want to think about it yet, at least not until we get valid rumors of such a butchering of Luke's character. [/quote]

You need to get over to Ireland and start spying again. The sedentary life doesn't suit you.

 

I need a new TV player, it just broke today and doesn't start anymore. Great for Easter.

 

The old Jedi order lasted a thousand years and Luke's new order not even 20-30 years? Nope, the point is a Skywalker destroyed everything and a Skywalker should restore it. Ok, if Rey is Luke's daughter, the task could go over to her. If she is not.....then no idea what to think about all of this and the worse if Luke already dies in VIII.....but this is really worst case scenario and I don't want to think about it yet, at least not until we get valid rumors of such a butchering of Luke's character. [/quote]

I actually quite like the fact that, for all their heroics and their good intentions...Luke failed. Han failed. Leia failed.

Their brave new world, their futures crumbled in their hands. Han and Leia's marriage imploded. Their child turned to darkness. Luke's dreams of a new Jedi order went down in blood and flames. And they all went back to what they knew be it smuggling, fighting as part of the resistance/rebels or simply fleeing to remove yourself from the action.

What do they do with that failure? Is the new generation simply doomed to repeat it? Or will we see Luke and Leia use the weight of their history, their own misery and the tragedy of their own stolen happy endings FINALLY put things right by simply surviving to let their own experiences change the course of this future?

History gets told by the winners, even as their present selves have lost everything.

 

I actually quite like the fact that, for all their heroics and their good intentions...Luke failed. Han failed. Leia failed.

Their brave new world, their futures crumbled in their hands. Han and Leia's marriage imploded. Their child turned to darkness. Luke's dreams of a new Jedi order went down in blood and flames. And they all went back to what they knew be it smuggling, fighting as part of the resistance/rebels or simply fleeing to remove yourself from the action.

What do they do with that failure? Is the new generation simply doomed to repeat it? Or will we see Luke and Leia use the weight of their history, their own misery and the tragedy of their own stolen happy endings FINALLY put things right by simply surviving to let their own experiences change the course of this future?

History gets told by the winners, even as their present selves have lost everything.[/quote]

Agreed. But FYI, the way you quoted the posts above misattributes my words to nightangel, and nightangel's words to me. Just want to clear that up, as though nightangel is one of my favorite contributors to this forum, we have very different opinions on this matter.

 

Agreed. But FYI, the way you quoted the posts above misattributes my words to nightangel, and nightangel's words to me. Just want to clear that up, as though nightangel is one of my favorite contributors to this forum, we have very different opinions on this matter. [/quote]

Whoops ,sorry Jabba: I have precisely zero idea how I managed that...

 

Ohh and I thought you are tired of me and having a different opinion. In some cases we have at least similar ideas, but when it comes to Luke's legacy our opinions just differ a lot. For me it is just that I heard for many years how cool Han is and Luke did nothing important. Only in recent years people acknowledged more what Luke achieved in the OT. I just fear this will start again when we have a complete failure for him (no Jedi order and no personal legacy).

By the way, worked an hour to get a laptop tv solution running for Easter holidays. I hate it when devices break on holidays.

 

With a heavy Swedish accent, of course. Or, they could go the route of the Swedish book shop scene in Top Secret, and all action and dialogue will be played in reverse. Luke's force powers will be practical effects when he's giving a tour of the temple to Rey, placing relics and books back onto their shelves. Daisy just needs to study the vocal work of The Man From Another Place for her line delivery.

 

it works too given that Hamill is of Swedish descant through his mother, as well as the actress for Shmi also being Swedish.

 

didn't know this, so he is European.

 

Well, if the TV's broke, I guess you'll just have to talk to the family!

 

Snoke is scared to death of Luke, if he could possess Luke he'd not be half as frightened.

 

I would like to see Luke and Leia survive. It would be a much better ending for this trilogy if Rey was not alone setting up a new academy on her own but with another by her side to help her.

Finn does not strike me as a Jedi. He will become a general in the new republic army or die in my opinion. So that leaves Luke and/or Maz to set up the academy with Rey.

 

This is so well put.