ST Snoke's Backstory - Theories and Speculation

I'd have to freeze frame a bunch of stuff. Hand gestures, head movement, and dialogue.

 

I get a kind of "This guy is the real menace" vibe from Snoke; like he's been lurking in the shadows from the very beginning, pulling a few strings and waiting things out.
I've never gotten the impression that he is Palpatine. He seems distinctly different.

 

He's not Plagueis? Or Vader? Or Bane? Or Jar Jar.

Hey! Maybe what DP in the novel thought was the Force creating Anakin as a response to DP meddling with midichlorians was actually what Palpatine would think the was source of the dark side--Snoke.

 

I'm not keen on him being established as always being the threat behind the scenes. I don't want Palpatine to turn into the Loki to Snoke's Thanos or something like that.

I'm hoping he's something new. Him being this Rax guy would be fine to me, though it would have to be explained where his power came from, and that's where my interest lays. Palpatine was trained by Plagueis and Plagueis was trained by a Sith master, and so on, going back over a thousand years.

Snoke - if he's Rax - is some kid found on Jakku, who becomes a military leader. How he becomes a presumably Force-powerful individual is unknown.

Though there still is the possibility that he's a master manipulator and still may be more of a Wizard of Oz esque character.

He has Force ability, insofar as he can sense an Awakening, but other than that, I don't recall any demonstration of Force ability, nor any dialogue suggesting he is powerful in the Force.

Kylo does not refer to him as Master, nor does Snoke refer to him as apprentice.

Snoke says Kylo is Master of the Knights of Ren, not himself.

Snoke finds out the droid is with Han Solo via information provided by a gang leader, but when telling Kylo, that scene plays out as though he sensed it.

Han says Snoke is using Kylo for his power. If Leia had indeed met Snoke/Operator/Rax, then it's possible she and Han know he's really not what he appears.





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I hope this isn't the case as I'm not a fan of "man behind the curtain" twist villains.

 

I don't want Snoke to be the main villain at all. It's just rehashing Palpatine and Vader then.

We heard of Palpatine in ANH, saw him briefly as a hologram in ESB giving orders to Vader, then saw him in the flesh in ROTJ, in which his whole role was basically just Satan. The corruptor of Anakin's soul, and the one that sought to corrupt Luke's.

Luke resisted and Anakin redeemed his soul in Act 3.

In TFA, Act 1 of the new trilogy, Snoke has already gotten Kylo Ren to resist redemption and commit patricide.

The climax of the OT is the confrontation between Luke and Vader and the battle to break away from the Dark Side. Vader breaks away by refusing to let Palpatine kill his son. Whereas Kylo kills his father right in the first act.

Abrams described Kylo as a work in progress in TFA, compared to Vader from the OT. I'd like to see him finish that process. Vader couldn't bring himself to kill wife or child, Kylo has killed his father, he has sunk deeper than Vader.

I have zero interest in seeing Kylo stay subordinate to Snoke across three films. Vader wanted to usurp Palpatine but never did. I hope Kylo usurps Snoke.

Star Wars is a family drama. I think it better to have Luke and Rey against Kylo than keep Kylo subordinate to Snoke.

If Kylo is already so powerful as a work in progress, I hope we see him as a "finished" piece that takes over.

I think a rather weak con artist would be a nice alternative to Palpatine who was powerful in his own right.

Rax is a clever guy. He says they need to turn to the Dark Side and find it. Problem is, I think Palpatine is mistaken about the source of his power and I think finding the source of the Dark Side is a fool's errand and red herring.

With how unpopular midichlorians were (yet they didn't contradict anything), I can't imagine them canonizing the Dark Side as originating from beyond known space, not when the Force is said to be created by all living things, with the living Force giving rise to the cosmic Force (as per Qui-Gon, who became one with it).

Rax could change strategies and instead turn to Luke's nephew as the Dark Side power they need and create a persona to deceive, manipulate and turn him.

Let's say Palpatine told Anakin he could help save Padme, but that Anakin would have to become stronger in the Dark Side. Anakin goes off and attacks the Jedi Temple, murders kids, kills the Separatist leaders, then returns to Palpatine only to find out Palpatine can't use the Force at all and is just an ambitious politician that manipulated Anakin to eliminate his enemies. What's Anakin do? Can't go back to the Jedi. Has nothing to gain by serving Palpatine.

I'm guessing he'd kill Palpatine in a fury and try to claim power for himself to protect himself.

That's what I think would be cool to see.

Where the heroes confront Kylo in the climax and he's not just some guy under the thumb of some corruptor like Vader was, but he himself is the big bad guy running the show by that point.

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"I think Palpatine is mistaken about the source of his power and I think finding the source of the Dark Side is a fool's errand and red herring".

Small reminder: there is a source: the well of the Dark Side on Mortis and the Son "was" its embodiment! Don't forget the Clone Wars is canon and Dave Feloni said in an interview that what happened on Mortis still has a huge part to play in the Star Wars lore. Hope Disney considers this....!!! anyway, I hope the Son is still out there some where. There is no bigger threath. The Father said his children could rip the very fabric of the universe if their full powers would be unleashed. That's why he kept them on Mortis in the first place, to controll them. The Son wasn't stabbed by the dagger of Mortis but by Anakin's saber so maybe he survived somehow... The Father and daugher are dead though. Maybe Rey is the new chosen one and the Force is unbalanced cause the son still lives....just ideas...

 

I'm now wondering if by end of episode 9 both Kylo and Rey end up sent back in time with Rey left pregnant and amnesia ridden becoming Shmi Skywalker and Kylo stuck far back in time ends up in stasis inside a Sith Shrine that is hidden beneath the Jedi Temple on Coruscant.
Palpatine kept him prisoner until his death at Endor resulting in "Snoke" being smuggled out of the Core Worlds eventually leveraging his position by establishing control over his younger self trying to be better prepared next time... Kylo kills Snoke ends up sending himself and Rey back in time within a sealed time loop...

 

So it would basically be Looper.

 

Note that as soon as the Father vanishes they get swirled up and wake up...

Aboard their ship which is already en route back to where they came from with no memory of taking off. Which is the very thing The Son wanted.

If Mortis was the conduit of the force then it could have been the Son who made it possible for Sidious to have the power of the dark side.

After all Daughter says "We are The Ones WHO GAURD THE POWER."

I think that Snoke is the Son, who was feeding off the conflict of the clone wars and the galactic civil war, and Rey is the chosen one returned from the force who came to stop him. She just doesn't know it yet.

 

Mortis itself was a conduit for the Force, as said by Qui-Gon. The cave on Dagobah was particularly occupied by the Dark Side, but it doesn't mean it's the source.

Both the finale arc of TCW and ANH state that the Force is an energy field created by all living things. In the finale arc, Qui-Gon explains that the living Force is the energy created by everything that lives or has ever lived. Anakin states that when things die, they merge into the cosmic Force and lose all sense of identity, and that it is the cosmic Force that binds the Galaxy together and through which Jedi can feel the Force through the midichlorians..

The source was said to be life itself. Dark Side and Light Side are aspects of the Force. Yoda describes emotions such as fear, anger and aggression being of the Dark Side. If the Force originates from life, I'm not sure how the Dark Side originates beyond the borders of the known Galaxy or what Rax would have thought he was going to do with it once he found it. Palpatine may have sensed something out there, and there may in fact be a powerful individual or presence out there, and it may have been Snoke that he was sensing (if Rax is not Snoke), but I don't think at this point that they are going to establish that the Dark Side comes from the Unknown Regions or Wild Space.

I know with the Bendu being introduced in Season 3 of Rebels, it was mentioned by either Filoni or Freddie that he represents a view that there is merely the Force and that it reflects whatever the user brings to it. Such that the Dark Side is merely a reflection of the hate, fear and anger the user brings to the table.

Characters are fallible and their beliefs can be wrong, but I can't imagine they are going to establish Palpatine as being correct and overwriting what was said on screen. Palpatine probably sensed something as a catalyst for him having those beliefs, but I doubt his beliefs will turn out to be correct.

 

Excellent! Well said--or written. Maybe th source is historical. The Rakata left behind the most powerful dark side concentration. Palpatine sought its power and knowledge.

 

Rakata aren't canon.

 

I thought that Disney reintroduced Rakata in a game and/or map. If so, it's canon. Doesn't mean the species exists, but it's posssibe. And even if Snoke isn't Rakata, he could be Rakara-like: of an ancient, powerful in the dark side of the force race from the Unknown Regions.

 

There was an official map with Rakata Prime, I believe.

I was reading an article from /Film regarding when the "awakening" in TFA actually occurs, and he starts going over evidence and theories, and he cites a passage by Pablo from the visual dictionary (I think) in which it said something to the effect of the cosmic Force having gone silent since Luke's apprentices were killed and his Temple destroyed. But that Kylo Ren and his "mysterious" master now sense that something has awoken.

In the finale arc of TCW, Yoda makes contact with Qui-Gon and initially believes it to be impossible for one to make contact with the dead. He then speaks to Anakin who had previously spoken with Qui-Gon on Mortis, and Anakin says that he and Obi-Wan suspect that it wasn't really Qui-Gon, because everything they know about the Force states that when one dies, they merge with the cosmic Force and lose all sense of individuality. And then Qui-Gon later tells Yoda that it is through the cosmic Force that Jedi become aware of the Force via the midi-chlorians (paraphrased).

If the cosmic Force is silent, then it suggests to me that new Force users are not being born. Which is curious, since "Children of the Force" were being born throughout the Imperial period despite the Jedi being all but extinct.

But when Kylo Ren destroyed Luke's temple, apparently the cosmic Force has gone silent, until "awakening" in TFA, which seems to coincide with the manifestation of a particularly powerful new Force user (Rey).

I guess my question would be why did the Cosmic Force go silent following Kylo Ren destroying the Jedi Temple?

The cosmic Force is born of the living Force, and it appears to be the opinion of many that Snoke looks like he should be dead. And even in the script, there is mention that he seems to die for a moment, though IMO, this moment doesn't translate to anything obvious on screen, but it is there in the script.

I don't remember which book it is stated in, but there's also mention of how ancient Sith could siphon Force from captives to sustain their own lives for hundreds of years. We also see Talzin try to siphon Force energy from prison, sacrificing them to restore her own power.

If Snoke has somehow achieved a much greater version of this ability, siphoning the living Force to keep himself alive, and preventing it from merging into the cosmic Force, he could essentially be a soul stealer. Choking off the cosmic Force by sustaining himself by stealing the living Force from dead Jedi.

Sources regarding Snoke seem to play up the fact that he appears vulnerable, but also that he's mysterious.

When the Plagueis theory was big, Pablo seemed quick to start discrediting it, with Snoke being described as "just Snoke." Yet articles persist questioning who is Snoke REALLY? As though he has some alter ego we just don't know, ranging from Palpatine or Vader, to Bane.

And yet rather than just describing the awakening being sensed by Kylo and Snoke, Pablo adds that Snoke is "mysterious."
Even if Snoke turns out to be Rax, again that means Snoke isn't merely Snoke, but an Imperial named Gallius Rax.

The one big reason I can't see Rax being Snoke is because it's establishing an unknown character with a different unknown character. Snoke is an unknown character that people suspect has an alter ego, but said alter ego would just be
another unknown character.

Rax may be tied to Snoke, he might be who awakens Snoke, he might find a Rakatan mind trap and be possessed by Snoke, etc.

But I doubt he is Snoke as is.

Snoke is Snoke, allegedly.

And with how his "vulnerability" is pointed out, I'm curious if he's actually that strong. Wise, knowledgeable in the Force, maybe, but he seems to struggle to stand. I'm wondering if he's a Force leech that is dependent on Kylo Ren. A very wise individual who can share his knowledge with Kylo Ren, but who needs Kylo Ren to kill the Jedi for him, and that in the absence of Jedi, he can feed off the living Force, keeping the cosmic Force choked off. It could be that when Kylo Ren killed Han, Han did not become one with the Force due to Snoke.

If Snoke had such ability, it might make Luke's situation more dire. Dire enough to seemingly walk away, knowing that if he fails, there will be nobody else who can stop Snoke, since the cosmic Force is silent.

That there was an Awakening in TFA, might be because Yoda and Obi-Wan are part of the living Force and helped pierce the veil that Snoke had created to create one last hope for Luke. Or maybe Luke went to the First Jedi Temple and found some secret to awakening the Force, creating an opportunity for Rey to become Force sensitive.

I think there may be a link between her and Luke, given that when Kylo probed her mind, he did see an island, which is where Luke was.



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Maybe that is the hint as to who Snoke is that we have been waiting for. Maybe he is Revan! Which would explain how he could so easily switch from being a female to a male character.

 

It was apparently a map from Empire Magazine that Pablo said was originally made for the visual dictionary. Jakku is the closest planet to Rakata Prime on that map, and Rakata Prime is the only planet on the map that hasn't been canonically mentioned or shown on screen.

 

Hopefully he is like nothing that we have seen before, no Vader or emperor so he will be his own kind of character. Compare it to a leader for some sort of authoritarian organization that is having their inspiration in Hitler of Mussolini and that becomes a huge threat to democracy so it i up to the democracy to fight against a growing fascism.

Maybe he could be a leader of a cult that is looking up to the empire? I hope that they will make that organization into something new so it won't be a copy of the emperor and so on.

 

I haven't finished Life Debt yet, but I don't think Rax is going to be Snoke. I really like the character Gallius Rax, but I think he's part of the trajectory that somehow leads us to Snoke. I'm not sure how yet, though.

 

I'm in the same place. I haven't finished, but the more we know about him the less he seems like Snoke.

 

Hey guys, please watch her video and waht she has to say, this is very interesting! She thinks Snoke is General Hux's father...

 

I think Snoke is...whatever's underground at that excavation site on Jakku.

 

Excellent.