TV Discussion So... a Darth Vader vs Ahsoka Tano throwdown... how would you actually want that to go?

I think it was actually introduced in the Jedi Power Battles game for Adi Gallia, before TCW or TFU.

Though the Anzati Dark Jedi Nikkos Tyris from the I, Jedi novel uses something vaguely similar.

 

Likely they were inspired by Zatoichi style. The American remake of the character was made with Rutger Hauer and the bad guy at the end dies in a way that would be used 1999's TPM, by falling and splitting in two. There is some advantages of fighting with the reverse grip, usually in flexibility and for close quarter fighting, but like everything, practice makes perfect or a lethal opponent.

 

thing is its a perfectly viable fighting tactic with a knife. Not so much with a sword.

 

Tano and Starkiller can and do switch to regular grip often in duels, as they're both expert professionals not novices. The backhand grip works well for onslaught style offensive/defensive slashing fighting and protection against blasters. The grip allowed the user to perform long sweeping strikes which would take down several enemies at a time, and was almost like throwing a punch. Lightsaber fighting would be different than real swords, plus very few things can withstand its blade. All of which was why Starkiller used his specialized Form V reverse Shien but his main weapon was the Force.

Tano was somewhere between Form IV and V, and her reverse grip was the style Starkiller used, the reverse Shien. Would be interesting as both were apprentices to Vader, Starkiller though so far Legends.

 

So I've been thinking about this for awhile and have come up with two scenarios I’d be happy with (or sad since the only way to finish/finalize Ahsoka’s story is for her to die).

Scenario 1)
Ahsoka teams up with the Ghost crew for a very important mission (Death Star Plans, anyone?). Vader shows up and Ahsoka chooses to stay behind so the other’s can escape. After an intense lightsaber battle, Vader defeats and captures Ahsoka. He tortures her for info on the Rebels, but Ahsoka wont talk. She could make some snippy comment about how her master taught her to resist torture. (I’m assuming at this point Ahsoka knows Vader is Anakin. Maybe they even fought prior to this and Ahsoka escaped.) Vader would say “This is your last chance: speak or die.” Ahsoka stays silent. Vader roughly grabs her chin and injects poison into her neck. After a few moments Ahsoka’s breathing becomes labored and she struggles to keep her eyes open. She looks at Vader and says “I’m so sorry, Anakin. I've fail you.” (This would be in reference to Ahsoka making it her personal mission to save Anakin from the monster he’s become. And she would’ve reveled this to Vader previously. Perhaps while he’s torturing her or during their lightsaber fight or a previous encounter.) Vader gently lifts her chin and replies “it wasn’t your fault, Ahsoka. It was mine start to finish.” (This line is a callback to a line Anakin said in Cargo of Doom.) Ahsoka “I love you, Skyguy.” Her head drops and she dies. Vader becomes angry, maybe even destroying some equipment and/or a Stormtrooper or two who are just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Vader hates himself more than he hates anything else. He hates himself for killing Padme even more than he hates Padme for betraying him. Now, since he killed Ahsoka, he has one more reason to hate himself.

Scenario 2)
Scenario 1 happens BUT instead of injecting Ahsoka with poison he injects her with a sedative/force-suppressant with the intention to take her to an execution chamber. Kanan and Ezra (who could be near by trying to rescue her) would sense her force signature instantly vanish and assume she is dead. Vader still gets angry. Remembering how much he hates himself for killing Padme and now is about to kill Ahsoka. So with Ahsoka dead to the galaxy, Vader takes her ‘body’ to the surface of whatever planet they happen to be around and gives her the antidote. He could leave before she wakes up or maybe stay and they have a heated talk. Either way Ahsoka realizes it’s not her place to save Anakin and that she is now more of a danger to the fledgling Rebellion than an asset. So she goes into self imposed exile. Fast forward a few years: Ahsoka hears of the Battle of Endor, the destruction of the second Death Star and the death of the emperor and Vader. So she goes and seeks out Luke. Fast forward to Ep. 7. Luke, like Obi-wan, dies protecting Leia/niece/nephew/some up and coming young Jedi. Luke’s dying words (or force ghost) are “you must complete your training. Go to such-and-such planet and find the one they call Fulcrum.” Fast forward again and Ahsoka is the Yoda of the sequel trilogy. Except I imagine her dying fighting the new bad guy. Similar to how Qui-gon was taken out.

If you've read this whole post: thank you.

Dave Filoni in know you have people read these things. So if you want to steal my idea, please steal it! I got a BA is script writing, so if you want me to write the script….
Yeah, yeah. I know, highly unlikely. But, hey, if you’re gunna dream, dream big!

 

These scenarios are unlikely, since they depend on Vader's resolve / hate weakening, which Filoni said pretty much would not happen in this time frame. As far as he (Vader) is concerned, so long as Ahsoka still draws breath, something of Anakin still lives on in her. And he can't have that. Every last vestige of the weak, pathetic Anakin must be destroyed, and that now extends to Ahsoka, by way of her embodiment of him.

 

Dunno, the idea that Vader hates himself so much was waaay overblown in the old EU. We've seen him as unrepentent evil in ANH and TESB. He loves his job and does it with a lot of energy, he has all the cool toys to play with and he grows stronger and stronger under Palpatine's tutlage. He lives a hollow life without real friends and family, but he is not aware that he could have it better. And I doubt he blames himself for Ahsoka leaving the order, since nothing of that was really his fault. So, I really don't want to see a scene in which he actually tells Ahsoka that he failed her or something.

 

I see what you are saying. And I agree that Vader does want to completely wipe out Anakin. To clarify I thought these scenarios would actually increase Vader’s hate (especially of himself) not weaken it. I just thought that his self-hatred would be so overwhelming at this point it would over shadow his hated of Anakin (by proxy of Ahsoka). And in the end he gets what he wants: Ahsoka out of the picture via her death (scenario 1) or self-imposed exile (scenario 2). Perhaps in scenario 2 Vader could even blackmail/ guilt-trip Ahsoka to make sure she leaves the Rebellion for good.

 

I almost don't want to see Vader hate himself I want him to hate anything that has to do with Anakin.

 

Full cheers from me for Scenario 2

 

I can see Ahsoka trying to reach Anakin and persisting in calling Vader by that name (or Master, or heck even Skyguy) throughout their hypothetical encounter, not realising that she's actually making things worse for herself. Vader at this point is in full on villain mode for me, he's over whatever guilt he had and no Luke to reawaken his paternal instincts so he's got no limitations and no compunctions. Ahsoka's attempts to reach his 'good' side just make him angrier...

 

I think the moment he sees her she is on his kill list right up there with Kenobi and will do anything to find her.

 

jakobitis89 I'd actually prefer a different variation on that, where Ahsoka does not continually, earnestly try to reach his good side, emotionally pleading with him to turn, all through the encounter / fight, in a repeat of Padme's pathetic behavior from ROTS. Instead, she realizes early on that there is no turning him, and from then on starts openly taunting him, mocking him, calling him all kinds of pathetic, failure, useless, slave etc. Cutting. Condescending. Derisory. With some pity certainly, but bitter ironic pity, not pathetic mewling pity.

Of course this works him more and more into a humongous towering rage, which Ahsoka knows of course, but she doesn't give a ****. Maybe she even seeks to take advantage of it, winding him into a blind fury that actually makes him uncoordinated and easier to fight against.

 

That would just inhance his use of the dark side not damper it.

 

Ahsoka taunting Vader on his situation and fueling his hatred so that he can show no mercy, I can see that.

 

Could work, Darth Valkyrus. But it does seem out of character for Ahsoka to give up on her old Master like that to be honest, I know she's had a pretty rough time and probably the intervening years haven't been a barrel of laughs... but he was her friend as well as her teacher, they were pretty tight. Perhaps (assuming she makes it through round one) she takes that tack for further throw downs, but unless she's got a whole lot grimmer than we've been shown so far I just can't see Ahsoka quitting on helping Anakin, even though we know she will fail. Perhaps she will see him do something particularly heinous to damage her faith in him, otherwise... I don't see it. Not straight off the bat anyway.

 

Only up to a point.

Unless the Force is like the Incredible Hulk, where the angrier he gets, the stronger he gets, ad infinitum. But I don't think it's ever really been implied that way.

Up to a point, increasing anger can give you focus. But beyond a certain threshold of absolute, blind, seething, boiling rage, it clouds a person's judgement, makes them clumsy, lashing out furiously but without control. This makes them less effective in combat, not more.

 

jakobitis89 We don't know what happened to her between the moment she left the Jedi order and Rebels apart of a concept art where we can see her on Mandalore, maybe she has grown more cynical during that time.

 

Since both Vader and Maul survived due to their hatred, the Dark Side can make you pretty ****ing strong.

As the Sith spend their entire lifetime to bend rage and aggression into icy, unending hatred, I don't think they lose their cool quickly. Vader fights more robotic and less emotional than many Jedi.

Ahsoka is probably the one who is in danger of losing her cool more than Vader is.

 

darklighter99 Yeah, we don't know what happened to Ahsoka but based on the thirty whole seconds we've seen of her thus far in Rebels there is nothing to suggest she's gone ultragrimdark yet - the fact she's siding with the Rebels at all suggests she's got at least some of her idealism still hanging in there. She would have to have gone through one heck of a bad deal before I would buy her giving up on Vader without any attempt to redeem him. If she only tries once, then gives up, I could see it; but just accepting he's a Sith, what the hell, let's get to fighting? Doesn't seem like the old Ahsoka and we've seen nothing to suggest she's changed so severely, not yet.

 

Totally agreed.

I honestly can't see her slinging witty insults at Vader either. Just not her thing. Ventress is the one with the sharp tongue, not Ahsoka.

 

A lot would depend on who Ahsoka is now. I think it’s safe to assume she is not the same person we saw walk way from the temple. Filoni said she’s not Jedi and not Sith. So what is she? Neutral in the Force? If so, what does that mean exactly? Or is she some kind of light-side-but-not-Jedi force users?
I don’t see her giving up on Anakin like Obi-wan did. I see her having the same kind of conviction as Luke would. “I know there is good in you. The emperor hasn‘t driving it from you fully.” So that would beg the question: why does Ahsoka fail where Luke succeeds?
I could see something along the lines of Ahsoka paving the way for Luke. Ahsoka puts a crack in Vader’s dark side armor but Luke is the one to completely wipe it out.

Guess the only way to know is to wait for Season 2. (Does anyone know when Season 2 will air on Disney? Not all of us can make it to Anaheim.)

 

The thing is: Will she feel conflict in Vader? Will she feel light, like Luke did?

I'm not sure she is powerful enough in the force to do that. Luke is a prodigy of the force, which she never was. Aditionally, at this point in time, Vader follows the path of the Sith unquestioningly. He believes that it is his and his master's destiny to rule and that the galaxy will be better for it. Peace through superior might.

We only see doubts in TESB, when the whole galaxy is in the process of erupting into chaos. It is only then that he starts to doubt his master and the grand plan, even though he still wants to rule as a Sith.

So, is it in the cards for Ahsoka to find that tiny, elusive speck of light? I don't think so. I think she will run against the wall and then Vader will do something so utterly horrific, that she realizes her master is lost forever. And that's when the real battle begins.

 

That would not surprise me in the least but since this meeting is all but assured I hope you''re wrong. I don't think anyone in SW is beyond hope.

 

I agree. I think that Vader will in the end, kill her without remorse. I mean, for all we know Ahsoka already knows who Vader is, or rather was; and won't even bother to try and turn him back to the light. She might be just as angry as him. I hope that their confrontation is done well though, and I'm sure it will be.

I can see where your coming from. But I think that Luke is the one who can really bring out the good that's left in Vader. And well, we do end up seeing that in Return of the Jedi.