TV Discussion So... a Darth Vader vs Ahsoka Tano throwdown... how would you actually want that to go?

Well, we know he isn't beyond hope, but Ahsoka doesn't, since she can't see the future. That's drama and tragedy right there.

 

That is true, SI. Yet, it will be sad if NO ONE bothers to believe he's still within before his son.

 

In the books, Ferus Olin certainly sees that Anakin is within Vader. But then, he had a great many bad experiences with Anakin when they were Padawans:

"Anakin is dead."
"So you've told me before. You killed him. Just like you killed Obi-Wan. And Padme. Erase all reminders of who you used to be, isn't that the plan? Any reminders of what you've done and how much it hurts?"
"You know nothing about pain. But it will be my pleasure to teach you."

"Your technique has gotten lazy."
"And you've gotten complacent. You think no-one can match you, right? Same old Anakin."
"Anakin is dead!"

"You move well for a fat old man."
"No older than you, Anakin."
"There is no Anakin."
"And yet here he is in front of me. The same cocky, deceitful, defiant, scared little boy you always were. You killed Obi-Wan because he saw the fear behind the mask. You killed Padme because she saw the monster. You can kill me, if you want. But you will never kill Anakin. I suspect someday, he'll kill you."
"Someday, perhaps. But unfortunately for you, that day is not today."

 

To be honest, it would be a lot more dramatically interesting/satisfying if Ahsoka was initially convinced he could be redeemed then have that belief destroyed rather having her just going in convinced he's a bad dude that needs killing. Actually seeing her realise that the main who taught her, and was a true friend in a way not all masters are to their padawans, has become this force of sheer evil would make for better drama than having it happen entirely off screen. That said, it would be interesting if perhaps 'Vader' has been hunting 'Fulcrum' for a while with neither realising the other's true identity...

 

I could see her trying to reach Anakin but I don't think we are going to see a crack in Vader's armor anytime soon, at least not at this point in the timeline. If anything, her attempts only ends up angering him even more, and then he does something so awful like killing a member of the ghost crew in front of her, that event could make her change her mind and so she decide she has to kill him to stop the horrors.

 

I don't want Ahsoka to find a bit of Anakins light it diminishes his story.
I agree Vader has some light in him but I don't want Ashoka helping.

 

In RotJ after Luke says “I know there is good in you.” Vader replies with “Obi-wan once thought as you do.”
Er, wait minute. When did Obi-wan ever think that? In fact he told Luke the exact opposite of that. And he didn’t seem to think to try to save Anakin in RotS.
So either 1) Obi-wan and Vader meet sometime between Ep. 3 & 4 and Obi-wan does think there is good in him or 2) Vader says Obi-wan because he was someone Luke knew and didn’t want to explain who he was really talking about (Ahsoka?). I find 1 to be unlikely since Obi-wan thought Vader was a lost cause back in RotS. So unless someone (Ahsoka?) changed his mind and they both went to confront Vader…. An Obi-wan/Ahsoka vs. Vader fight anyone? If Vader killed Ahsoka in front of Obi-wan that would reinforce Obi’s point of view that Vader is beyond hope.

 

The speech at the beginning says the opposite because After Anakin says your My Enemy Obi Wan says only a with deals in absolutes
Showing that Anakin thought of him as his enemy when he really was not.

 

It might be worth having more than one encounter / fight (hell, Dooku and Anakin fought a bajillion times, two or three Ahsoka-Vader fights are OK), allowing Ahsoka to give some post-fight exposition to her comrades, and thus indirectly to the viewer.

"I searched him high and low with the Force, looking for any weakness, any crack... what the old Jedi Order would have called a shatterpoint. I began to think he had none. But that is impossible, everyone has one. It's a matter of finding it. At length I discovered it, but when I did, I realized I would never be able to exploit it. There are only two alive today who could... and they are not yet ready to face him. Vader himself thinks them dead, he believes they died unborn with their mother. In fact he does not even know they are two, he still thinks there was only one child. They and they alone could exploit the shatterpoint in Vader. Now more than ever I know the importance of keeping them utterly hidden from him. Until the time is right."

 

I don't want her knowing about the Twins but other then that it works.

 

It's kinda hard for her not to know, since she's now one of Bail's lieutenants, and Bail is the guardian and adoptive father of one of said twins.

 

Yes but another thing thats bad about what you wrote is her saying Vader Has Twins would the crew find out who vader is.

 

A confrontation between these to definitely has to happen Master/Padawan duels are some of the best duels in the Star Wars series and this one has even better potential then most.
Firstly I don't think Ahsoka could ever fall to the Dark Side because it just doesn't fit with her character. However if she did I want her and Vader to team up and be all badass and take out Palpatine and be like The Galaxy: We Run This ****. But that probably won't happen.
Moving on...
I can see the duel going several ways depending on if Ahsoka is aware Vader is Anakin or not.
If she no's who he is I can see her staying behind on a mission to confront him and give the Ghost crew time to escape.
[Ahsoka stands with her back to the doorway lightsabers ready in her hands as the sound of Vader's breathing slowly draws closer, Vader Enters]
Ahsoka: Hello Master
(or she could call him Skyguy just to piss him off)
If she doesn't know who he is I can see her being all 'you killed my master' and Vader maybe taunting her by telling her that Anakin was weak and easy to kill and making her angry enough that she manages to injure him before he reveals himself to her.
In a heartbreaking scene Vader let's her know who he is by saying something like 'I taught you well' or calling her 'my young padawan'
(It would be even more heartwrenching if he called her Snips, but I don't see that happening because the thought of Vader saying Snips with his voice is kind of ridiculous)
I think Vader would definitely ask her to join him 'I could be your master again' 'There is still so much for me to teach you' and well I stated above that I don't believe Ahsoka would join the Dark Side I think just for a moment she would be seriously tempted.
[Ahsoka hesitates just for a moment staring at Vader's outstretched hand there is something like longing or wistfulness in her eyes, then her face hardens with determination]
Ahsoka: No, you chose your path long ago I can't walk it with you.
[Vader seems almost hurt for a moment before his cool impassiveness returns]
Vader: So be it (or: You disappoint me)
[The duel resumes]
As for Ahsoka trying to turn him back to the light I think she'll definitely make an attempt but only an obligatory one I see her as knowing it's futile but making the offer anyway because she has to try.
Finally I think Ahsoka's fate at the end should be ambiguous I see the duel taking place on some kind of high platform like most good lightsaber duels and Ahsoka going over the edge and vanishing leaving it up to the audience whether or not she survived.
[Vader approaches the edge and looks down seeing no sign of his former padawan for a moment he wonders if the fall has killed her or if she has escaped than decides it doesn't matter. As he stares over the edge he seems to give off an aura of regret but after a moment he returns to being the remorseless Sith Lord. Vader turns and walks away as The Imperial March plays.]
As to the issue of multiple confrontations I think they should avoid that as more than one confrontation takes away the emotional punch.

 

In regards to that, I wonder if Ahsoka and Leia have actually met.

But yes, I agree. I think that Ahsoka knows about the twins too. Though, if she and Vader did have a confrontation; she'd have to have some pretty strong blocks on her thoughts to prevent him from finding out.

 

I don’t think Ahsoka would know about the twins. Remember, the less people know of a secret the better chance the secret can be kept. Hera kept things from her crew just in case they were captured they couldn’t reveal anything. The same is likely true between Bail and Fulcrum. If Bail has been in contact with Obi-wan or Yoda (and I think they would talk from time to time), Bail may have been advised to not let Ahsoka and Leia meet. Since Ahsoka would probably sense something about Leia. Luke’s existence is likely completely unknown to her. If Bail knows that Vader is Anakin, he’d be very cautious about revealing any info about Anakin’s kid(s) to Ahsoka just in case she is captured. IMO.

 

Makes a lot of sense.

 

Depends more on how well Bail can keep his mind from being read by Ahsoka.

 

Why would Ahsoka read his mind? Doesn't seem like a Jedi thing to do that without good reason.

 

Ahsoka doesn't really seem the type to go prying into her allies/friends minds on a whim, unless she was absolutely convinced that he wasn't telling her something very important she'd let it go most likely. At best, she thinks 'that's weird, thought Mrs Bail couldn't have kids. Must've heard wrong' or at worst she knows full well Leia is adopted but unless the little cherub goes around levitating her rattle or whatever she'd not suspect Leia had force potential, much less be the Spawn Of Skywalker.
From the beginning of Episode IV it seemed Leia's rebel status was meant to be secret, she was trying to claim diplomatic immunity which wouldn't fly if she was all over the holonet as the Imperial Most Wanted. Obviously Vader didn't care anyway but she did make the attempt, so she's probably been kept out of the nitty-gritty of the Rebellion as much as possible.
Long story short: just because Ahsoka worked with/for Bail doesn't mean she has a clue about Leia, at all.

 

Yeah, did some searching.

http://theclonewars.altervista.org/240-2/

 

Well well well......it will be great to see Ahsoka fall to her former master.

 

I'm having doubts about Vader actually killing Ahsoka in the finale, he was told by the Emperor that Ahsoka can possibly lead him to Kenobi, and killing Kenobi was Vader's number 1 goal at the point.

In the end though, there's no option they could take that won't lead to outrage. Killing Ahsoka=Ahsoka fans get mad. Letting her live= more outcry at how childish Rebels is.

 

I say kill off the beasty guy or Kanan first. I hope Anakin can kill off Ahsoka and a ghost crew member!

 

None of the good guys are going to die in this season or even in the entire show. Filoni teased the fight so much, it has to be a bait and switch ad worst, it wasn't even subtle.

 

I would agree but you do raise a question do we know if parents and kids have similar force signatures? Lets be honest force sensing of other force sensitives has not been the most reliable skill.

I would expect Sidious v Maul & Savage to be the model for this fight. Although I think the fight will have more emotion