CT So are the stormtroopers clones or what ??

The Clonetroopers were never not nice in AOTC and ROTS. So Filoni didn't screw up. They were never mustache twirling villains giving knowing looks prior to Order 66. Lucas wrote them as soldiers that the Jedi befriended and gave names to. All Filoni did was give a reason why they would turn on them, if they were friends. Something Lucas not only wrote originally, but he then later approved of.

Considering all "The Lost One" did was clear up the timeline so that we know that Dooku is the one who killed Sifo-Dyas and then assumed his identity in order to place the order for the army, I don't see how that is a contradiction. If it wasn't so clear, then people wouldn't keep asking who did what.

And according to Lucas, the show was canon under his watch and that you don't have to be completely married to canon.

Precisely. He could have made it easier by having Morrison re-record all the Stormtrooper lines in the OT and save a lot of headache and grief over it. But he didn't. He hadn't completely made up his mind yet. He was never 100% satisfied with his own decision. It happens.

 

Post-The Lost One reference works (the Databank, Ultimate Star Wars, etc) are stating that Dooku manipulated Sifo-Dyas into placing the order, and then murdered him and carried on the project from there.

 

Either way, it isn't a contradiction since it was always a Sith project.

 

Wasn't originally Sidious who was pretending to be Syfo in the early drafts?

 

I would say the clones murdering the Jedi isn't being nice. Post 66 the clones were seen detaining people and just being nasty. Plus they try to kill Obi-Wan and Yoda again at the Jedi temple besides trying to kill Organa. Order 66 is when we finally see who the clones really are, nasty thugs who are only loyal to Palpatine, not the Jedi. In the films it turns out the clones were not the Jedis' friends and it was a fatal mistake to have trusted them. The films already gave the clones a reason, they were engineered to obey any order including 66 through genetic manipulation to make them docile. Filoni retconned it to being a overriding mind control chip instead of genetic manipulation became Filoni expressed he wanted to make Palpatine ' s plans fragile which is nonsensical. Supposedly even Lucas disliked the chip retcon. Remember Lucas also originally wrote the clones were obeying orders as they are made to obey orders without question because of their genetic manipulation, not chips which were never expressed in the films, Filoni was fixing a non problem here. Lucas has a long history of being passive with spinoff material including TCW.

The films suggest the clone army was entirely the Sith ' s idea while TCW and EU suggests the clone army was Sifo-Dyas idea that the Sith stole.

Again canon doesn't mean the series overrides the live action films like some have suggested. The series deviates from the films on several points because of adaptation decay. Lucas was always passive with spinoff material and TCW was no different. But you seem to use both are canon to mean the films are incorrect and the cartoon series are the true correct versions of Star Wars, that would be fallacious.

Yes Lucas didn't change the voices to Morrison, but then he didn't had to have Jango bump his head to explain how all the stormtroopers have that trait by inheriting it from Jango either, but Lucas did. Also if Lucas wanted stormtroopers to be mostly recruits, why change them to sound more similar than before which indicates more towards clones instead of against. Kind of like repainting most of the white trim on a blue house, blue. Then saying the house is less blue now when it is more blue.

I read a little awhile ago that Lucas dislikes giving interviews and only does so when necessary for promotional reasons. If that is true then he may rush to get it over with.

Ironlord, both Filoni and Hildago, stated there are no more clones despite what the films say and what other new eu material says, so the new canon is already in disagreement with itself, that is just sad. If one man could not decide, a group of people will only have a much more difficult time deciding as groups are notorious for indecision.

Funny thing is ten years ago Hildago himself helped settled this by confirming that Stormtroopers are clones.

 

I tend to the view that published media trumps interviews - mostly because you have to pay for published media.

Minor disagreements are bound to happen, regardless of how careful the story group are.

 

yes.

 

No. In the shooting script, Obi-wan is told that Sido-Dyas ordered the Clone Army.

LAMA SU: "Please tell your Master Sido-Dyas that we have every confidence his order will be met on time and in full. He is well, I hope?"

OBI-WAN: "I’m sorry Master – ?"

LAMA SU: "Jedi Master Sido-Dyas. He’s still a leading member of the Jedi Council, is he not?"

OBI-WAN: "Oh, yes. Sido-Dyas."


OBI-WAN: "I’ve never heard of a Jedi called Sido-Dyas, have you, Master?"

MACE: "No. Whoever placed that order was not a Jedi, I can assure you."

OBI-WAN: "I have a strong feeling that this bounty hunter is the assassin we’re looking for."

YODA: "Who he is working for… discover that, you must."

OBI-WAN: "I will, Master, and I will also find out more about this clone army… May The Force…"

MACE: "A Clone Army! Ordered by someone in the Senate perhaps… Someone’s out to start a war."

YODA: "Inform the Chancellor of this, we must."

MACE: "Who do you think this impostor, Sido-Dyas could be?"


Sido-Dyas was Sidious, but his name was butchered by the Kamonians. Or at least by Palpatine. Lucas changed this to what it is now, a Jedi Master who was used by the Sith. Most likely to make it not so obvious who created the Clone Army.

That's not being nasty. That's being military efficient. The Clonetroopers were hunting for Yoda and Obi-wan who had gotten away. They point their blasters at Bail because they didn't want him interfering in their business and shot at him because he saw Zett be killed.

Lucas has a history of being passive with his own films. As to Filoni, he wasn't fixing a problem. He was explaining what the genetic manipulation was.

The films never said whose idea it was, nor who was involved in what. All TCW did was clarify it as Sifo-Dyas saw the need for an army, Dooku manipulated him and then killed him later. Simple. Nothing is ruined.

No, I'm saying that both work together. If TCW adds new details that weren't covered in the films, then that is fine. If as far as Lucas was concerned, it was a biochip and Maul survived his injuries, then that was fine.

Because Lucas accepted that there was flaws in his thinking and amended his ideas, so that there was a nice mix of both clones and non clones.

Not with a rushed detail like he gives.

Yeah and Lucas said there would be no Episodes VII-IX and then two years before selling his company, decided that he would start writing those films. A lot can change in a short period of time.

 

If There is anything to know about Lucas its that he changed his mind a lot.

 

If the clones were real friends with the Jedi, they would not have been so quick and efficent, it is a pretty common scf-fi theme that clones often lack empathy ala Blade Runner. Zett sprung out and attacked the troopers right then because they were going to shoot Organa in the back. Zett saved Organa from being murdered by the clones.

Filoni has made several statements he fixed what he thought were F ups (in his words) that Lucas made in the PT. One of these issues Filoni had was he disliked Palp's plan being a unstopable machine and wanted to make it fragile instead which I think is rather stupid idea. Palps was a master planner who had backup plans and could easily course correct his plans. The films already explained the clones are made docile to obey any order without question. Filoni says it is mind control chips instead of genetic manipulation as chips are not a form of genetic manipulation. But I agree with you Filoni wasn't fixing a problem, though he believed he was doing so. I disagree that he was explaining, he was retconing what the films state and show, we are told they obey any order and how, and then we are shown they obey any order, then TCW says something different. TCW strays from the films quite a bit and there are some things that can't be explained in universe, we just have to accept this.

Except there weren't any flaws, even Hidago at one time believed all Stormtroopers are clones and that the few mildly differing voices was simply the limitations of the 70s and fan nitpicking, basically the flaw is with the nitpicking fans rather than with the films or story or Lucas thinking. ANH has several overlapping dubing tracks running though it, I believe 6 tracks which may have caused technical issues with redubing , plus the mono track version of ANH features different dub actors and even lines! With the tractor beam control scene with Obi-Wan, all 3 speaking troopers in that scene have identical voices which even Kevin Murphy picked up on. Plus nobody complains about imperals and rebels having identical voices at times, this shows ANH has haphazard ADR (dubing). Nobody has yet expained to me why some fans have this intense desire for stormtroopers to be recruits as I see nothing nice about it, just diminishment of the Empire's evil and power to be more egalitarian and sympathetic which it should not be. If the Empire uses disposable craft why should it not use disposable troops too?

Sometimes they don't work together and contradict each other when TCW tries to add detail, such as with Maul he clearly died without question in TPM. The chips also conflicts with the in film stated genetic manipulation to be docile to obey orders without question. I don't view TCW as wrong but it does follow a different path at times and I just personnally prefer going by the films. Some of this stems from Lucas changing his mind as Filoni complained about it. As I said before, Lucas wasn't ok with the chips but didn't want to interfere with Filoni's story as he gave the writers a large reign.

That is true, but if he says Sith only use pink lightsabers when they are clearly red in the films, what then? This is why canon doesn't always work well with Star Wars.

 

Well then they were pink.

Yes I agree that Canon does not always work, but most of the time it does.

 

Clones can have empathy depending on who is writing them. See Superboy/Kon-El and Scarlet Spider/Spider-Man/Ben Riley. The Clonetroopers themselves have empathy even without the bio chip. They are quick and efficient with the Jedi because they were genetically modified and trained to kill the Jedi without hesitation. All the bio chip did was re-enforce that.

Except that the films showed that Palpatine's plans were subject to unexpected flaws. Such as Maul being taken out, Anakin not leaving Obi-wan behind, so I don't know where this comes from. Do you have these quotes?

It can be explained. Everything can be explained. And as I've said, the bio chips weren't fixing. They explained what the genetic modification was.

Hidago only goes by what he is told. So if Lucas changes his mind, then that is the new official story. As to using recruits, mainly because Lucas never really spelled it out in the films. There are people who don't give a damn about quotes and anything outside the films. So when Lucas never writes, "Man these clones are ugly as sin", in ANH, then people think that they are recruits. It also shows that people can be fanatically loyal to the Empire and even in the films, we see Imperials who aren't clones running around. Which just added fuel to the fire. And the fact is, you can amass a larger number of human Stormtroopers faster than you can a clone Stormtrooper, which takes five years to make. And when the creator himself said so in a later interview, then that's that. What he said goes and now it's what Kennedy says goes.

Do you have a quote where Lucas said that he disliked the bio chip? Please post it. And Lucas himself said, "I want Darth Maul to reappear in the show". So is he wrong? I think your issue is with Lucas, not Filoni.

Considering that they look pink half the time anymore, it isn't an issue.

 

I got Filoni's statement from Mike in the PT forum thread about order 66, http://boards.theforce.net/threads/order-66-was-just-mind-control.50023032/page-14

His response is spot on on the whole matter of the film explanation vs TCW.

My view is the chips are a stop gap, a very poor one to explain away why TCW clones are nicer and more indivalized than their film counter parts.

Except they weren't flaws, they were unforseeable setbacks. One of the courses I took in college was about leadership and management. One of the most basic facets of plan making is thet there are always unforseable environmental factors that will knock your plans off course and so a good planner expect things to go wrong and to be ready to alter their plans to course correct them to reach their goal. The films show Palps is very good at course correcting like any good planner should be. However Filoni disliked this aspect of the PT and wanted to "fix" it.

Sadly this is incorrect, I wish it was correct. The bio chips are very much a retcon as Mike's post above explains. Genetic modification is altering the clones at a DNA level, bio chips are a implant of some kind, not modification of their DNA like the films state. If you prefer how TCW explained things over how the films did that is fine. But this is an area where the films and the series don't jive.

In ROTS we also see Republic officers on the SD bridge who are not clones, we also see CIS personal who aren't droids which doersn't change that the majority of the CIS's grunts were droids. The fact is droids can be amassed even faster than recruits who take months to train while battle droids only take a few hours to construct and are battle readly the second they are off the factory line. As I posted many times before, a disposable army of manufactured troops has several advantages as fighting for the subjects so they don't have to fight and die, making your government even more popular. THe fact we recruits is time and resources must be spent to weed out the rejects from the recruits, while with clones there would be few rejects.

Another poster on this forum stated Lucas didn't like the biochips but I have not found the exact quote online. However, Lucas did say back in 99 he killed off Maul in a way so there was no wy he could be brought back like Boba Fett. He also did say if he knew Boba was going to be so popular he never would have killed him off. Lasty Lucas has stated "continuity is for wimps." Lucas created the mess with Maul while Filoni created the mess with the chip retcon. TCW series has alot of continuity issues with the films but it seems Lucas was unconcerned with that.

Still looks red to me.

 

Sorry for the double post but the edit feature timed out.

We don't have just ANH saying they are clones or Lucas's statements. We also have the PT too as it is a 6 film sega, no matter if you dislike some of the parts or not. Even the Rifftrax guys who are full blown PT haters and make money off sprewing PT hate understood the stormtrooper connection with the PT. Even the stormtrooper's very design and the fact we never see a ST's face in the OT hints more torwards clones. If Lucas wanted them to be recruits he could have had some take their helmets off to showcase this, or have Han talk about his old TIE pilot days, but Lucas didn't have it happen.

People misunderstand alot of elements in Star Wars. Alot of people believe that Yoda was indeed crazy and why he acted so obnoxious to Luke when they first met but Obi-Wan restored his sanity. While it really was just Yoda testing Luke to judge his anger, but alot of people don't believe this and I lost count how many times I had to explain this online.

As for faster massing of an army, then that is what the Republic could have done instead of using clones to fight the CIS as it could replace its troops at a faster rate than the Republic could, even with recruits or drafting. Many PT haters complain they would much rather had the Jedi, along with an army of recruited stormtroopers fight invading clones than what Lucas made. That the clones were false good guys and were really bad guys all along waiting for the time to strike and show their true colors.

 

They were already individualized in the film and there's nothing about them that isn't nice. All TCW did was give more screen time to them. That said, nothing in that passage says that everything ran smooth for Palpatine. Even Lucas said as much regarding Maul getting killed and Ian saying that he didn't anticipate things going the way they did.

"Palpatine rather hoped that Anakin was going to leave Obi-Wan during the kidnapping, but Anakin is an honorable man and Obi-Wan is his greatest friend, so Anakin insists that he bring him along."

--Ian McDiarmid, Star Wars Insider #82.

"But throughout Revenge of the Sith, it is really Palpatine's plot right from the beginning, from the kidnap that he himself arranged. Palpatine has ARRANGED PRACTICALLY EVERYTHING IN THE FILM except, I suppose, the final duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan."

--Ian McDiarmid SW INSIDER #82

"After Darth Sidious' first apprentice is killed, he has to come up with a new apprentice, and rather than coming up with some baby that he trains from birth, which is what he should have done--well, he shouldn't have gotten himself in a position of getting his apprentice killed anyways--he's decided to make his move, so he needs somebody that was already trained. "

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

"Anakin, as Skywalker, as a human being, was going to be extremely powerful, but he ended up losing his arms and a leg and became partly a robot. So a lot of his ability to use the Force, a lot of his powers, are curbed at this point, because, as a living form, there’s not that much of him left. So his ability to be twice as good as the Emperor disappeared, and now he’s maybe 20 percent less than the Emperor. So that isn’t what the Emperor had in mind. He wanted this really super guy, but that got derailed by Obi-Wan. So he finds that, with Luke, he can get a more primo version if he can turn Luke to the dark side."

--George Lucas, “Star Wars: The Last Battle,” Vanity Fair, 2005

"And when he finds out Luke is his son, his first impulse is to figure out a way of getting him to join him to kill the Emperor. That's what Siths do! He tries it with anybody he thinks might be more powerful, which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor -- he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that."

--George Lucas, Rolling Stones Interview, 2005.

"The Emperor wants Luke to kill Vader so that he will have a new young Jedi. Lets face it Vader is half mechanical and he is not half as good as he could be. He is not nearly as good as he was hoping Anakin would become because Anakin ends up in the suit. He is hoping he gets a new better apprentice in Luke."

--George Lucas, ROTJ DVD Commentary.

What Filoni said was that "...It seems if you watch it from the movie side that he had his machine and it just ran perfectly." Seeming is not the same as reality. Palpatine's plan nearly being discovered doesn't contradict things. After all, Palpatine didn't anticipate the Jedi getting off Naboo with Padme. That Anakin would be found and would destroy the control ship. Etc.

He didn't fix anything. He showed that the plans could be disrupted, but not severely. By the end of the arc, the Jedi are still in the dark about the bio chip and by the end of the show, the Jedi know that Dooku killed Sifo-Dyas, but they still go through with fighting in the war and even cover up what they've learned. So, in reality, nothing was changed.

Implanting the chips in their brains, which forces them to kill the Jedi and hiding it as a benign tumor that is part of their DNA, is genetic modification.

Except that as shown, the droids cannot think critically.

OBI-WAN: "Well, if droids can think, there'd be none of us here, would there?"

That's why Palpatine used organic troops, because they're capable of thinking far more than droids. And as pointed out, people will still support the government and find it to be popular, if they're recruits. Look at the real world.

Well, until it is posted again, I'd say it isn't worth mentioning.

Right and that means that there was wiggle room for Lucas to say it was a mixture of both as he did.

 

Either way, a sense of individuality doesn't override genetics. I agree not everything ran smooth for Palps and not sure how Filoni came to his opinon, maybe he watched a different version of the PT? However in the films the clones worked flawlessly.

That sets up a plothole, they know Dooku killed SD and ordered the clone army so it would be ready in time to defend against the CIS droid army he was stirring up, picking a thug to clone, and also knowing his was a Sith then the Jedi would have known the war was being orchestrated with all these red flags. It is better before TCW muddled things up by having the Jedi not knowing it was Dooku who ordered the clone army and picked Jango to clone. Lots of things were changed for the worse.

Except in the episode itself they state the chip is inserted at stage 3 while any DNA modification must take place at stage 1. Also chips and even tumors are not genetic modifications, tumors are cell mutations. The fact is the movies state clones are pretty much programmed from before birth to obey all orders, TCW says no, that they have mind control chips that overrides their thought processes instead. There is no way to solve this contradiction in universe. What happened was Filoni wanted to portray the clones differently from the films, and then explain why which was a big mistake.

True, but droids can be replaced so much more easily and much more quickly than either with cloning or recruiting. That is why the Jedi needed the clones, they were hopelessly outnumbered without them dispite being much higher quality than droids.

A government needs to be popular to attract recruits, and the OT showed the Empire's popularity was waining. All those celebrations at the end of ROTJ, even on its capital showed the Empire was widely disliked. As in the real world, recruits have overriding loyalites to family and friends which is an issue real governments are concerned with such as lose lips sink ships during WW2. Clones who are programed to be loyal lack this issue.

 

I think what Filoni was saying was that we didn't see Palpatine's point of view when something went wrong. We didn't have the scene where Sidious expresses his anger towards Dooku for failing to account for everything regarding Sifo-Dyas. In TPM, he's upset that Padme escaped, but he doesn't seem to be bothered by it. You don't get the sense that the whole operation could fall apart and so he put that in TCW with the Sifo-Dyas episode.

Uh, the Jedi didn't know anything in AOTC. They don't know who created the Clone Army, or that Dooku killed Sifo-Dyas. "The Lost One" ends with the Jedi knowing that Dooku killed Sifo-Dyas and pretended to be him. Did you even watch the episode and read the transcript that I posted. Lucas even admitted that he worried that he was giving away too much.

"I was always worried in Episode II that I was giving away too much in terms of people asking questions about where did the clones really come from. If you go back they mention the fact that Lord Tyranus and Count Dooku are the same person and that Darth Tyranus is the one that started the clones so if your paying attention its very easy to figure out what’s going to happen to the clones, if they will be the ones that will betray everybody. Tough to put in things like that without giving everything away."

--George Lucas, ROTS DVD Commentary.

So all Filoni did was clear it up for those who weren't clear and there were those who weren't clear.

Cell mutations that result in benign tumors would require DNA modification, which would be stage one.

But the droids have flaws which is why organic troops were needed. You think smart, not economically. Once the war is over, then you can make the switch over.

At the end. In the years leading to ANH, is a far different matter. And as the ST shows, the things are much different.

 

I think Palps was more leveled headed than Vader and kept his cool better. Even in ROTJ when he failed to turn Luke, he was only a little angry, he didn't throw fits of anger like Vader does when he or one of his henchmen fails. Anakin was a unstable Jedi, so it makes sense Vader was unstabe even by Sith standards. As I said before, a good planer expects and accepts that things will go wrong with even the best laid out plans, that there is always going to be a need to alter plans to course correct torwards the goal, which Sids did a good job.

Yes the Jedi didn't know anything in AOTC, what they did know was that it was unlikely Sifo ordered the clones since the timeframe of his death doesn't fit, and that a man named Tyranus recruited Jango to be the clone host and that Jango never heard of Sifo, indicating Tyranus ordered the clones using Sifo's name, but they didn't know Tyranus is a Sith surname of Dooku which is how it should stay. In TCW, they find out Tyranus is Dooku who was involved with the clone order and recruiting Jango, they also find out it was Dooku who had paid for Sifo's ship to be shot down so they know he was somehow involved in Sifo's death. Plus the fact they saw Dooku silent Silman also points to his involvement in Sifo's death and the clone order since he wants to hide something. At this point the Jedi would know enough to figure out that Dooku who is a known Sith, is orchestrating the war by creating armies for both sides which would sent up lots of red flags to the Jedi and creates a major plothole. At this point the Jedi would know too much for order 66 to be as efficetive as it was in ROTS as they would know something is up with the clones. While in the PT without TCW, the Jedi would not know about Dooku's involvement with the clones and thus have little to be suspicious about in regards to the clones.

So if Filoni was trying to clear things up, he did it poorly and ended causing more and worse problems than the non problems he was fixing. First time I saw AOTC I understood at the end that Dooku really ordered the clones using Sifo's name as a cover. I also predicted the clones would be used against the Jedi in the next film, it was easy to see that coming.

Except the chip and tumor are inserted at stage 3, and that the tumor is just a cover for the chip itself. Filoni decided to be different from the films since they state modifications at the DNA level to make them docile, not override mind control chips.

 

And that doesn't change by having Dooku be choked by Palpatine for his failure. But Palpatine does get angry very hard in the PT. First in ROTS, when Mace says that the Senate will decide his fate and he says, "I am the Senate." Which Lucas wrote as being an angry outburst. And you can see he is very angry when Luke tells him to **** off.



I can even recall my brother once saying that he looked really ticked off.

The Council doesn't know about the chips, so they don't know about Order 66. They believe that whatever the Sith want of the Clone Army, that they can neutralize it once they win the war before the Sith can make their move. Only the Council and Anakin knew about the Sith's involvement and the Council consider the Clonetroopers to be loyal and mere pawns. They still trust the clones despite knowing what they know.

You could, others could not. That's the difference you overlook.

According to the analysis droid, the tumor was made from organic cells and most likely those of the clone. And it doesn't matter if it is stage one or stage three, they are still embryos and can still be modified. They're making modification to the DNA in order to implant the chips.

 

I never said he didn't get angry, but he didn't go into as huge of a rage as Vader does. In fact in the films he never punishes or kills his underlings for failure like Vader does. Palps did get irked when Vader left the SSD to go back to DS2 to see him but didn't choke or zap him over it. Choking and killing underlings personally was Vader's thing to show how ruthless and pathetic he is, Palps had others do the dirty work for him most of the time except for Luke. He only bumped off underlings in the films when they became a liability such as the CIS leaders when it was time for the clone wars to end. The only people he seemed to personally attack and kill in the films were his direct enemies such as the Jedi like Mace and Luke. So TCW having him choke Dooku was out of character for him, that is more of a Vader trait. Yes Vader said that Palps isn't as forgiving as him, but Jerjerrod isn't punished or disiplined onscreen for the lack of progress.


Another difference between Vader and Palps is Palps seems to enjoy killing while Vader seems not to enjoy killing.

Even without knowing the chips, the Jedi in TCW would know the war was set up by the Sith and that they are involved in both sides. They would have figured out there was more to the clones that mere pawns for them. Why would your worst emeny set up a army for you? Only answer, it is a setup for a trap and the clones are a part of that trap, especially when they witness one going beserk Jedi killing mode (which doesn't fit with how the clones acted during 66 in the films, they were quite calm and in their right minds). The PT version is better with the Jedi not knowing before 66 that the war was a setup, Filoni wote himself into a corner there.

See that is the problem, in the films they are genetically modified to be docile, they are blueprinted before inception to be docile to obey any order. TCW says instead an implant is installed after inception so they obey orders, clearly the films and the series disagree here.

I found this interesting blog article about stormtroopers and how they express less emotions than droids in the films. It also talks about how the clones also express little emotions and that even battle droids acted more human than the clones do. https://starwarsanon.wordpress.com/2014/03/13/lack-of-human-in-stormtroopers/

 

Yes. GL even said it in 1978, and 1981 interviews.

 

That's because Vader put Jerjerrod back on schedule. If he hadn't, then Palpatine would have made an example out of him. Also, Lucas originally wrote Palpatine choking Dofine in TPM. He only opted out because he didn't want him to do it from that far away.

Sure doesn't look like it.

The Jedi already know that the Sith started the war when Dooku was revealed to be a Sith. And Dooku already told them that Darth Sidious controls the Senate, which though they are hesitant to believe, they still opt to keep an eye on it. Which is then why Anakin is sent to spy on Palpatine, to see if he is in league with the Sith or operating on his own. Tup going crazy was the result of the chip malfunctioning, as he was trying to follow orders while disobeying them. The Jedi believe that Tup and Fives were infected with a virus. Only Rex realized that there was something more going on which is why he was able to convince only Wolffe and Gregor to go check it out. The Council doesn't think that there is a trap with the Clonetroopers and so they think that they can stop whatever they've got in mind, because of their loyalty and if they end the war early.

Uh, no. Lama Su said nothing about being blueprinted before inception. He said, "We modified their genetic structure to make them less independent than the original host." He never indicated when the modifications take place. You must also remember that he's not being entirely honest with Obi-wan since Order 66 was meant to be kept a secret from the Council, much less any Jedi sent on Sifo-Dyas' behalf.

DOOKU: "You must remember the chip is a safeguard against betrayal from rogue Jedi. Master Syfo-Dias was the only Jedi who knew of this. But with his passing, we alone know of this secret, and you must keep it that way."

Which is the wiggle room needed.

True and later on, he also said it was a mix of clones and recruits. He is allowed to change his mind.

 

Not sure if picked wrong screencap or something, be he seems to be REALLY happy about going at it with Yoda. In fact, that entire fight, he seemed to be drunk with power.

 

I picked the right cap. Palpatine is looking forward to not only beating and breaking Yoda, but killing him as well.

 

I disagree, Palps was enjoying the fight with Yoda and he was manic during it, sure seemed like he enjoyed himself. When he was zapping Luke he was smiling sadistic, clearly enjoying killing Jedi.

I also disagree that a inserted implant counts as genetic manipulation, altering DNA is blue printing the life form. Genetic manipulation is just that, manipulating DNA. Inserting chips isn't DNA altering. TCW sometimes did it's own thing apart from the films.