PT So did the Jedi deserve what they got?

Another problem is that the clones want to fight, if told that they had the chance to escape from this all so would most of them still stay and fight.

In a way so are they the bright eyed young men of WWI who singing went to the meat grinder.

 

That's what being raised by Kaminoans from birth does to one.

 

or in early 20th century Europe.

 

Its not a crime to be raised to be ready to fight for your home, in the clones eyes, the Republic.
Does anyone remember Greger(I think his name was). He was a clone who had anmesia, so he did not know who he was. He had a good job, and all that, and yet when reminded of who he was, risked his life so that artoo and the rest of the D-Squad could escape. He chose to, and most of the other clones chose as well.
People who choose a way of life are not slaves, so please try to remember that.

 

Problem is - the Republic wasn't their home when the raising began. Their home was the planet Kamino, far beyond Republic space.

And the clones didn't choose their way of life - it was, very much, chosen for them - by Kaminoans seeking to make a profit from their sale.

 

But they chose to make the Republic their home. The japanease, chinease, philipino, and other people groups who now live in Canada consider it their home, even though they did not come from here origanaly. I consider them Canadian, and they consider themselves canadian as well.

 

But they chose to make the Republic their home. The japanease, chinease, philipino, and other people groups who now live in Canada consider it their home, even though they did not come from here origanaly. I consider them Canadian, and they consider themselves canadian as well.

 

sorry, my compurter is being slow today, so I acidentily pressed "post reply" twice

 

The clones didn't choose anything - they were handed over to the Republic by their creators and owners, the Kaminoans.

Mia Mesharad , Robimus , etc could probably go into better detail than I could.

 

No one deserves genocide.

 

Yeah, I would not compare the Jedi to the UN.

Also - Obi-Wan isn't exactly entirely morally sound. Despite all the "other" people.

 

On this thread and on that analogy, I would. They are a benign organization that promotes peace and cooperation. The Jedi are like the blue helmets, both have limited numbers and resources, and have limited jurisdiction.

 

Except the peacekeepers are not actively fighting a war, nor are they actually the UN.

 

Yeah, this thread has gone in all sorts of strange directions...

 

Yes, one is fiction the other isn't. And peacekeepers can be forced to fight so that peace can be restored.

 

Feel free to tag me in a nice conversation once in a while. Something with puppies or superheroes or pizza...not just genocide, slavery, and human rights issues. I do have other interests...

What the Jedi (as an institution consenting to participate in a corrupt system involved in the enslavement and theft-of-life of over several million sapient beings) deserved was a punch in the face. Metaphorically speaking. Something to wake them up and stear them off the wrong path they'd stumbled down. What the Jedi (as a collective of people, well-intentioned if short in sight, and comprised of individuals largely misled, through politics or dogma, into the position they found themselves in) actually got, on the other hand, was a bullet to the back. Often literally.

It's one thing to acknowledge fault and push for accountability, or even appropriate punishment. It's something else entirely to advocate the deserved death of approximately ten thousand people from the removed position of a safe-and-sound viewer, especially when many of the Jedi were already outliers, dissenters, and reluctant accomplices to the institional-level policies moving them down the problematic path in the first place.

Comparatively: it's right to acknowledge and call out systemic racism, and to fight to end the institutionalized oppression constructed by white society. It's considerably less right to slaughter all white people and call that just.

 

What constitutes "consent"? Or, to put it another way, what other choices do the Jedi have? They don't have a say in whether or not the clones will be used - the Senate decide that. They are, essentially, conscripted into the role they serve in the war. Their only option not to "consent" is to refuse to lead the clones....but the clones will still be utilised by the Republic, so how would the Jedi help the clones by that decision? They would also be seen as, perhaps, traitors - unless they advised that they will lead volunteer Republic soldiers. But that still doesn't stop the clones from being utilised.

 

If you watch Clone Wars,you do realize that most Jedis were not really Jedis,but fallen Jedis,
acting as a task force to Darth Sidious/Senator Palpatine.
What they have done,slowly put them on the dark side more and more.
Until some of them wanted to take power from Chancelor Palpatine.
And Chanchelor Palpatine,since it had the power,was afraid to loose it.
This is why he tries to kill every Jedi,because he is seeing a rival in every Jedi.
EDIT:
When Master Yoda talks to Qui Gon in Clone Wars cartoons,Qui Gon tells Master Yoda to not trust anyone,including the other Jedis.
Why?
Because even Master Kenobi is going astray,to save Dutchess Satine,cause he was loving the Dutchess,without the approval of the council.
And Darth Maul and his brother Savage Oppress are removed from power by Darth Sidious.
So Obi Wan is actually saved by Darth Sidious,from Darth Maul and Savage Oppress.

 

TCW

 

I'm to lazy to go back and read 40+ pages but I'm curious has anyone in this thread ever stated the jedi deserved what they got?

 

Yup:

 

That's a completely wrong description of what happens in the TV series.

 

Is not. Please watch last episodes from season 6.
Grandmaster Yoda is contacted by Qui Gon which already knew what is going to happen..
Qui Gon tells Grandmaster Yoda to go first,on the planet Dagobah and later,on another planet,where Grandmaster Yoda
is confronting his dark side and lets aside his dark side.
Qui Gon tells Grandmaster Yoda to not tell anyone what he is going to do,to not trust even closest Jedis.
After Grandmaster Yoda becomes a very light-side aligned Jedi,we are at the start of Revenge of the Sith.

Now,Grandmaster Yoda warns Mace Windu that if Mace Windu will try to remove by force Chancelor Palpatine, from office, "to a dark place " that will lead.
Mace Windu do not listen . See that when Mace Windu takes another 3 Jedis to arrest Chancelor Palpatine,
he is not consulting with Grandmaster Yoda.
And see that Mace Windu also put guards to survive Grandmaster Yoda,in last episodes from season 6,in "The Clone Wars" tv series.
So we have a multitude of people who want to take power:
Darth Maul,Anakin,Darth Tyrannus,Darth Sidious,Mace Windu .
Darth Maul is defeated by Darth Sidious and we do not know what happens next with him.
Darth Tyrannus is killed,so it remains Mace Windu,Darth Sidious and Anakin.
Mace tries to take power from Darth Sidious,but he fails since Anakin allies with Darth Sidious
and Anakin becomes 2nd in power,in the whole Universe.
This is what happens.

 

No, that's not what happens. Watch the movies and the episodes again, and pay attention to what actually happens and what's actually said.