So Endor has a gas giant!

I found this on the first page of Bounty Hunters: Aurra Sing.

The second moon of the planet Endor. Also called the "forest moon". Sometimes even Endor. When it's called anything.

Just an insignificant green rock, orbiting a lifeless vapourous giant. Lost . . . small . . . a child circling a dead parent.

So . . . where was this Endor gas giant in Return of the Jedi? Why was it left out? Funny, not a single novel has mentioned a gas giant . . .

Also, was this gas giant mentioned in the Essential Guide to Planets and Moons?

 

The gas giant is said to be destroyed, lost or whatever happened to it:
At the feathered edge of the galaxy, the Death Star
floated in stationary orbit above the green moon Endor - a
moon whose mother planet had long since died of unknown
cataclysm and disappeared into unknown realms.
ROTJ novel.

That's the stuff

 

Yeah, I remember that from the old ROTJ book. But if "lost or destroyed", wouldn't that contradict what my first post said, from the Aurra Sing Bounty Hunter issue?

 

So why would that be? I was under the impression the tale of Aurra Sing happened wa-ay before ROTJ...

This means Endor (the giant) vanished in the time between Aurra's tale (I set it apart, because the Tales are told in different eras) and the time of ROTJ.

So what happened? So how did Palpatine know his new Death Star was fully functional, without any tests? No one knows where has Endor gone.

Remember that Centerpoint thing, that could move planets? Perhaps someone did that with Endor while exploring Centerpoint in the pre-ROTJ time. $)

 

I think it - mistakenly - turned up in the Jedi Academy Trilogy as well.

 

The Endor gas giant drops in and out of continuity like a planet-sized yo-yo...

But the "Sanctuary Moon" was originally concieved of as a wildlife preserve containing the transplanted life of the Imperial city-world capital...

Go figure...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

But the "Sanctuary Moon" was originally concieved of as a wildlife preserve containing the transplanted life of the Imperial city-world capital...

Was that in that ROTJ script, where they had Luke and Vader meet the Emperor in the palace, and they had Death Stars on the orbit of the Imperial center?

Oh god that script did rule! It had Coruscant...

 

That was just an(other) error in the novel.
Endor (the gas giant) is still there. It was just off-screen in RotJ.

You can clearly see the gas giant in the Ewok-movies and in SW Galaxies.


Kam

 

This topic is already discussed here.

"endor's primary has been the source of some continuity hiccups over the years. endor is a moon, but its planet does not appear on-screen in Return of the Jedi. This omission prompted novelist James Kahn to suggest that the planet had "long since died of an unknown cataclysm and disappeared into unknown realms." Colorful, yes, but ultimately inaccurate.

If you own From Star Wars to Indiana Jones, turn to page 84 and take a good look at the storyboards for the opening sequence of Return of the Jedi. Among the elements artists at ILM identified for these are "endor (moon)" and "Planet endor." It's possible they may have mididentified the big green orb as the planet and the small grayish speck in the background as a moon, but the point is endor was not supposed to be alone in space.

The Ewok telivision movies and animated seres depict endor's planet--also named endor--as visible from the moon's surface; a big silvery gas-giant globe in the endor sky. We just have to accept that it was lurking off-screen in Return of the Jedi.

At least one guide from the old Star Wars roleplaying, the Dark Force rising sourcebook, followed the novelization's erronious lead and claimed that endor had no primary. When that book was reprinted as part of the The Thrawn Trilogy Sourcebook, all refrences to a vanishing planet were removed. Current continuity stands that endor circles a gas giant, and we can forget the "unknown realms" scenario...What makes endor a moon is that it orbits a primary body."

-Insider

"Funny, not a single novel has mentioned a gas giant . . ."

Incorrect.

Truce at Bakura mentions the gas giant.

Dark Apprentice mentions the gas giant.

Thrawn Trilogy Sourcebook mentions the gas giant.

Illustrated Star Wars universe talks about and shows the gas giant.

Ewok movies show the Gas Giant. Ewok Cartoon shows the gas giant.

etc.

 

Valiento
How uncool... Them's revisionist... they are defying the canon.. can't be.
The movie shows no moon. The novel says it vanished.
The movie and the novel are canon. Other sources (novels, and etc.) are not.
So old roleplaying guides and books take precedence over the movie and it's novel companion - the things LUCAS was involved in?
I can only call this a horrid revision by the EU makers. They should not do such things.

As for whether Endor was supposed to be alone or not, that is of NO importance.
"Return of the Jedi" was supposed to be called "Revenge of the Jedi", yet it was not.

Scripts, storyboards and other materials are subject to change, and they do change. But it is clear that no Endor is present in the movie.

And if, as Cerasi claims, the novel authors work closely with Lucas, it would be a horrid mistake to let that into the novel, isn't it?

 

Actually its Lucas himself that changed his mind, when he added in the gas giant into his Ewok spin-off movies, and cartoons, which occur much to close to ROTJ to be, "Long since died".

It's similar to how Derek Klivian died in ESB novel, but didn't in the movie, so he survived to make it into the x-wing novels, because Lucas changed his mind.

Though the "death" scene has sense been incorporated as klivian only thinking he died, but Veers was actually injured badly, and it doesn't exactly happen when it does in the novel.

...or how Lucas changing his mind and Obi-Wan is no longer Owen Lars' genetic brother.

"Other sources (novels, and etc.) are not."

Most certainly incorrect, according to LFL's current policy everything else is "C-canon".

"as Cerasi claims"

Well, actually according to the currently employed VIPs (Cerasi hasn't worked for LFL in a year or two), authors usually get early drafts, or just checklists.

The ROTJ author was working with an earlier draft which may have said that the Planet was gone, where as the final draft added in the "moon endor", apparently, but effects people forgot to put it in, or left it off screen.

However Insider is correct if there was no planet, then scientifically it couldn't be a moon, by definition of moon. It would be a planet itself.

 

Valiento,
that means there is a blooper. It can't be explained in any rational way.
Too bad.
(C-canon - that is most certainly for LFL, but there's the G canon, which is George's.
That means there is a contradiction in G canon, isn't it (if the Ewok movies are canon?).

Ah, with Klivian - it's too bad, too. If LFL thinks there is an error in the novel, fine.
But after time they decided Veers should be injured. Now they make the silliest compromise ever - it is NOT according to the novel (since Hobby hit Veers in the novel), but Hobby survives.
What's the point of injuring Veers? They still fail to meet the novel version?

As for "scientifically" a moon - if the planet vanished, but people knew of it's existence - why in could not be called a moon?

 

No, because in the final draft, and the fx related storyboards, the planet is mentioned. Though it didn't show up in the FX shots for some reason.

Where as earlier drafts the one that ROTJ author worked with it was missing, one possible explanation is it was intended to be behind the camera.

So its a matter of the author not having the latest draft.

 

Though it didn't show up in the FX shots for some reason.
The novel also mentions Sullust, which is not in the movie. The FX of ROTJ seem to have some lame spots.
one possible explanation is it was intended to be behind the camera
Could it be behing the Star Destroyer in the shots of Vader's arrival, then?

 

Valiento,
that means there is a blooper. It can't be explained in any rational way.
Too bad.

Just think of the planet as being below and behind the camera. That allows it to be offscreen.

Also the Ewok movies by George Lucas should be considered pure canon as they come directly from the creator. Not a second party like James Khan. In that case they would override the RotJ novel.

 

Yeah, Ewok movies should override the novel, I suppose.
But there are problems with that "off-camera" thing... there were a lot of views both from Endor and from space, and none captured the giant.
How far could it possibly be from Endor?

 

As for Klivian, he actually mentions he survived a crash on Hoth in the x-wing novels, and liking bacta a lot. So he actually survived injuries he thought were fatal as his thoughts show in the ESB novel.

Think of it similar to MAS use of characters thinking they have a fatal injuries and are going to die only to be just fine chapters or books later.

Where as Veers had spinal injuries instead, and lost the use of his legs.

"But there are problems with that "off-camera" thing... there were a lot of views both from Endor and from space, and none captured the giant.
How far could it possibly be from Endor?"

If it was on the other side of the planet during that particular revolution/rotation of the moon of endor, then it wouldn't be seen in the sky, from the particular point on the surface that they were located.

"for "scientifically" a moon - if the planet vanished, but people knew of it's existence - why in could not be called a moon?"

Scientifically speaking it our moon somehow got free of our earth, it would no longer be a moon, if it had no orbit it would be upgraded to "rogue planet", or if it found a new orbit around the sun, it would become a planet itself. It would probably be called "Planet Luna" after its latin scientific name.

 

Valiento,
Now I get it. But it kinda seemed to me (although X-wing novels have his recallings), that it was not the crash from the novel. Because the explosion of a snowspeeder in the AT-AT's head is much unsurvivable. Veers could have ran away, albeit unlikely. But not Hobby.

As for being not visible from Endor moon - that is O.K.
But as I said, a whole lot of shots in outer space. How far could Endor be from the moon, huh? I guess the shot where the Rebel fleet comes out of hyperspace makes it pretty clear there is no Endor around.

 

It's surmised that Hobbie, and his co-pilot ejected at the last minute, and therefore didn't get the whole blunt of the explosion from the crash but still enough injuries to have to have bacta treatments.

Veers on the other hand jumped into the neck of the At-AT just before it hit, but his legs and lower spine still got the blunt of the trama.

"As for being not visible from Endor moon - that is O.K.
But as I said, a whole lot of shots in outer space. How far could Endor be from the moon, huh? I guess the shot where the Rebel fleet comes out of hyperspace makes it pretty clear there is no Endor around."

That shot doesn't show every angle from up or down, left or right actually.

Every other shot in the movie doesn't show every single angle.

So there are angles still left open for the planet to hide in. But I couldn't tell you which angle exactly. Its not known.

However if any fx shots were added to the ROTJ dvd I wouldn't mind the planet being inserted into a viewable angle.

If its any entertainment value to you, there has been fan speculation that the Empire was testing some kind of experimental super cloaking device on the Gas-Giant which is why it was invisible, when the death star exploded it damaged the equipment bringing it back into view for TAB...

 

Valiento,
The snowspeeder dose have ejection? Why did Luke not use it?
I do know what happened to Veers in the EU, but it (and many other things) seem really strange to me. Uh, nevermind.
Different shots show space around Endor from different angles, so the planet is either nowhere, or is spinning so fast..
And as for the coming-out from hyperspace - how far would you suggest they are from the moon, that they see no planet? And how far can be Endor? That is the problem - the distance.

I would not mind neither Endor nor Sullust inserted into ROTJ DVD on-screen. That speculation about the cloaking device is, actually, quite reasonable.
P.S. What I would mind inserted is Hayden's head in ROTJ end..

 

"The snowspeeder dose have ejection? Why did Luke not use it?"

Remember the Alliances use of mishmash designs and special customized versions. Its possible that while luke's didn't have ejection system(or it had been damaged), that Klivian installed it in his own, or he just manually ejected(I.E. pop the window and jump out under your own power).

Interesting enough the empire has a similar practice while most tie fighters have no ejection systems, a few tie fighters actually do have ejection systems(interesting enough one can even be seen in one shot of ESB in the asteroid field).

"And as for the coming-out from hyperspace - how far would you suggest they are from the moon, that they see no planet? And how far can be Endor? That is the problem - the distance."

Actually not every angle is shown.

However it doesn't have to be a matter of being far away. If the camera was closer to the hyperspace fleet than planet endor, then the camera would not pick up angles above or below or all the side angles.

Essentially think of your eyes as a camera you have a desk infront of you. The closer you are to that desk the fewer things you will see beside it behind, it or around it. But the farther you hold the desk more you see. Say you had a desk beside you. If you walked forward just a little to look at the desk in front of you, you will not see that desk that was orignally beside you, its all a matter of POV, and how much the eyes/camera can pick up at any given angle or distance from something.

"P.S. What I would mind inserted is Hayden's head in ROTJ end.."

Ugh horrible and disrespectful to the original actor. Not to mention something that destroys the movie's original artistic value.

 

Remember the Alliances use of mishmash designs and special customized versions.
Yes, that's a point. He could have installed that.
Interesting enough the empire has a similar practice while most tie fighters have no ejection systems, a few tie fighters actually do have ejection systems
So why is that "few"? In X-wing comics, as well as in Marvel prints, they pretty had ejector seats.
(interesting enough one can even be seen in one shot of ESB in the asteroid field).
Nop. That pilot is not ejected, IMHO. His body is thrown out from the cockip window by the explosion.
His body is already burning, and no ejector seat is there. It's flying like it's pushed by the explosion, not by a ejector seat.

And the ejector systems in Marvel and X-wing are pretty much different from that outbreak of the pilot body in ESB.

If the camera was closer to the hyperspace fleet than planet endor, then the camera would not pick up angles above or below or all the side angles.
True...

Ugh horrible and disrespectful to the original actor. Not to mention something that destroys the movie's original artistic value.
Yes.. I hope Lucas is not really that fond of re-editing his classics. And it's actually a lame idea to try to tie the classics to the new prequel movies in that way. He would get better with a gungan cameo somewhere on the backplane.

 

"So why is that "few"? In X-wing comics, as well as in Marvel prints, they pretty had ejector seats."

Exactly some do have ejector seats, just not most at least according to the EU. You have to remember Marvel was considered close to appocryphal, and even AU for a very long time. Its only recently that its been made C-canon, and at least S-canon in parts, and is being incorporated.

It was the Bantam/WEG/Del Rey era EU that said that the Empire created most Tie fighters without ejection systems, in order to cut costs. This has been incorporated into modern era sourcebooks as well.

"Nop. That pilot is not ejected, IMHO. His body is thrown out from the cockip window by the explosion.
His body is already burning, and no ejector seat is there. It's flying like it's pushed by the explosion, not by a ejector seat."

Canonically speaking its been listed as "Ejector system". So despite what kind of damage he is suffering outside of his ejection, his ejection was due to an ejection system. A good source for that info off the top of my head is the CCG.

 

Valiento, Marvel definetely sucks and that's why it was considered apocrypha for such a long time.. (and I think it still should be there where it belongs)..

But the DH X-wing Rogue Squadron? They are no apocrypha for sure!
[image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/comics/xwing/eject1.jpg]

Canonically speaking its been listed as "Ejector system".
is the CCG
Just say which set, I'll go look that out... That is important stuff.

Curtis Saxton's opinion on TIE ejection systems:
There is a prejudice in the folklore of rebel pilots, a belief that Imperial TIE pilots are treated as expendable and that their craft lack safety features. This is demonstrably false. TIE pilots flying in space missions wear a comfortable, insulated and fully air-tight spacesuit enabling them to survive in vacuum. TIEs are equipped with automatic ejection seats, which have been seen in action in the asteroid field in The Empire Strikes Back and in many old and new comics. [Wedge Antilles does not realise this capability, eg. X-Wing: Wraith Squadron p.162., but this may be just rebel pilot folklore.] The ejection seat seems to optionally launch through either the forward viewport or the top of the cockpit ball. The appropriate section of the cockpit is blown away by explosive bolts firing a split second prior to the seat's launch.

 

"Valiento, Marvel definetely sucks and that's why it was considered apocrypha for such a long time.. (and I think it still should be there where it belongs).."

I'd have to disagree, IMO many of the marvel stories are better than TTT, IMHO. I thought they did well for the limited amounts of pages they had to work with. Sure the art may not be up to todays standards, but I think it does well enough to convey events as best it can, to me its the stories that matter more than the art anyways.

X-wing comics, I never said were appocrypha, however they don't show the majority of the tie fighters in the universe, most are said to lack ejection systems because the empire was trying to cut costs.

As for the CCG try looking in the sets that deal with the Hoth battle.

It might also be interesting to note that not all Tie Fighters are created equally, some have hyperdrives, but different kinds. At least two types of hyperdrives,

1. a huge external part sticking out as seen in Kenner, and an X-wing comic.

2. an experimental mini-hyperdrive that fits within the ball, as seen in marvel and confirmed in Planet Hoppers.

There has been at least 3 ways of getting inside of a Tie Fighter, from the back in some models, or from the bottom or top in other models.

At least 2 types of ejection systems apparently.

As you pointed out Saxton's opinion is only his opinion, his website is a fanmade website rather than anything official. Its not owned or endorsed by LFL.

Where as Saxton has been forced to work within the restraints of LFL's policies so far, with regards to the official books he's worked on or with.