So, is this an actual rule now.. (Discussing parody threads)

Discussion in 'Communications' started by jp-30, Oct 2, 2008.

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  1. PRENNTACULAR VIP

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2005
    star 6
    I'll unlock Carmen's thread until we reach a decision.

    Concerning the spam thing I brought up, we've been getting complaints about the increasing level of spam threads, and the decreasing level of quality threads in the JCC, and from out point of view, unoriginal, spammy parody threads just don't help that, which is what starting the discussion of a possible rule change.

    Part of the discussion we're having is whether the rule change needs to be made at all, and I'm grateful for your guy's feedback on that, as it will give us more stuff to think about before we make our decision.
  2. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    You can't (or at least shouldn't) retroactively lock threads that were not against the rules at time of posting. So great that you're unlocking Carmen's thread, but you can't go and lock it again later if you make up a new rule that bans such threads.

    Besides if you did that you'd have to lock EVERY parody thread that's open in the JCC, wouldn't you?

    Can you link us to some, please?

    TJCCINAGAIUTB.

    It's not like mods have any control over some subjective label like 'quality'. Sure, some people post nothing but drivel, but users find a way to make even those threads interesting, most times. Though Andy-Bandy is missed hugely, he was a master of that.

    I agree they don't help. I think most people would say the same. But the current rules already deal with sprees. if you absolutely need to force a new rule, Roper's makes the most sense. One parody allowed, no parodies of parodies.
  3. PRENNTACULAR VIP

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2005
    star 6
    Can you link us to some, please?

    I'm not sure if there's threads or not, I thought I remembered discussing it with some users in Comms or the JCC, but I don't really want to dig up specific threads on it right now. Regardless, I've gotten PMs from some users about it, and I told those users that we'd discuss it in TJCC, so that's what we've been doing. The complaints came in about a month ago, but since then we've been looking at threads in the JCC, and discussing what we can do to bring down the spam stuff. Obviously, enforcing current rules is the place to start, and we're working on consistency in that regard as well.

    It's not like mods have any control over some subjective label like 'quality'. Sure, some people post nothing but drivel, but users find a way to make even those threads interesting, most times. Though Andy-Bandy is missed hugely, he was a master of that.

    Certainly. Everything we've been discussing has come as a result of user complaints we've gotten, or an overall feeling that the JCC has gotten more spammy of late. But you're absolutely correct, and we're trying right now to look at the current parody thread rules, deciding if they need to be changed, and if not what else we can do to encourage the posting of good threads that are conducive to the kind of discussion that makes the JCC the JCC, and discourage the bad ones. Regardless, there's not going to be a huge rule change either way, and it's not the result of us 5 mods getting together and deciding that the JCC doesn't live up to our standards of what we think it should be. If that's the impression we've given, I'm apologize.

    I agree they don't help. I think most people would say the same. But the current rules already deal with sprees. if you absolutely need to force a new rule, Roper's makes the most sense. One parody allowed, no parodies of parodies.

    Right, that's what we're discussing right now. Thanks for the feedback.
  4. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    I think the mods can help a lot regarding the quality of threads, but it takes some time and inclination. I'm not saying the current mod team isn't doing it, I see a lot of interaction in threads. And this is a good thing, as a mod that's one of the good things about the job, that you don't have to spend all your time editing and banning. You can direct conversation. In JCC it can sometimes make you want to *head desk*, but hopefully the good comes with the bad. Part of that may be deciding as a team (along with the community) what type threads you want to see on page 1 all the time and post in those and keep the interaction going in them when possible. It can be tough, especially on day when there IS more to do in the editing, locking, banning, but when it starts working it's a lot of fun to be around.

    As far as parodies, when we changed the rule, the intent was to keep the fun parodies. By that I mean those where there is a legitimate subject, not just something thrown in there..., but a good parody, could stay. If it went too far, or was just a spree of the same subject... it would be locked. A lot of that depends on the moderator's judgement, I've locked some that had their own subject but was just too silly or stupid to stay. So yeah, if it's a problem and too gray...worth looking into I guess.


  5. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    Sounds good PRENN. Just be aware that for every person that complains about a particular thread (or whatever), there are tens or hundreds of other people who are perfectly happy with the status quo.

    The silent majority oughtn't be ignored, if you know what I mean.
  6. MaidenLumpe VIP

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2000
    star 3
    Only marginally related, but can we get a definition of parody sprees? I really thought the spirit of the rule was multiple threads spawned from the same one, not just multiple parodies in general. Has that changed?

    On the current topic, my feedback would be to do something that leaves room for transparency - if it's up to the call of the mod, then that makes it significantly more difficult, so I really think that specifics are better than gray areas.

    And back only marginally off-topic, I mentioned this in PMs, but if you want to cut down on spammy threads, my vote would be for banning threads that are song lyrics.
  7. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    Only in TwiLekJedi's mind, it would seem.
  8. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    The concern with this is that it may prove to actually be counterproductive. Consider what jp's said--some people are having fun with these threads. Strictly speaking, however, a thread that's just a twist on an earlier thread (in the vein of "somebody did something outragous" and someone else posts "oh, that was me, sorry about that!") doesn't qualify as discussion, on the face of it.

    So we have two similar-ish threads--the rant threads, and the eggs/women threads. One ended up getting locked, one stayed open. Both of them were twists on the original, though the latter was superficially completely different but still relied on references to the earlier thread for the bulk of the humor.

    In my mind, the eggs/women thing would be a theoretical ideal parody--one that both stands on it's own but also derives lulz from the original. The rant thread didn't do that as far as I can tell (though I agree 100% that it was funny and well executed).

    So what I want to ask here--and this is me asking for feedback here--is what to do with the difference? The women thread involved interaction and had an extended joke, whereas the rant thread was a one-post thing which everyone thought was funny. They're pretty different, imo, but is the general consensus of the people posting in this thread that both sorts of "quality" should allow the thread to stay open?

    I'm not sure how transparent to make the process because if we're looking for how the community appreciates a thread, it'd be subjective every time. I don't see how we could really accomodate your rant thread in a hard and fast rule--I do, however, see where it could be put in a mod's discretion sort of system.

    Am I making any sense at all?
  9. MaidenLumpe VIP

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2000
    star 3
    The way that I could see the rant thread existing is in a "the first parody thread after that is okay, any thread after that gets locked" environment. If a thread is funny then it'll get replies, and if it's not funny, then there's only going to be one so you don't have to worry about the board getting completely spammed up.


    One locking that I really don't get is the locking of harpuah's Jello thread. How was that not a thread that could stand alone?
  10. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    Roper's rule would work fine.
  11. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    It would, at the cost of not allowing any other cleverer parodies afterwards if the first parody is dismal (as Carmen's said). So either way, we win some and lose some.
  12. MaidenLumpe VIP

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2000
    star 3
    If it's a really clever parody, then it can happen afterwards. I made "ITT we post MALE pictures" weeks after the original thread, and people still got it.

    Also, under the 'clever parodies' rule, why was the Jello thread locked?
  13. GIMER Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2000
    star 6
    You know, this place has been DEAD this past week.

    That parody spree was entertaining and didn't hurt anyone.
    In fact, it seemed to wake things up.


    If you have one person complaining about them, then.... well ... nevermind.

    I understand that it is against current policy, but with fewer people in general on the boards, something like that happening during a slow time is very enjoyable.


    The Forum Feud and the BB and the P&W forums have been more exciting than the JCC because there was a bit of chaos which stayed within the TOS.
    I think the JCC could use some more chaos.

    If you want orderly, then go to the senate.


    My petition for First of the Month Parody Free-For-All day starts here:

    1. GIMER
  14. Boba_Fett_2001 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2000
    star 8
    First of the Month Parody Free-For-All day

    1. GIMER
    2. BF2K+1
  15. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    And therein lies the problem--some people like parodies simply for the sake of parodies, others like them when they're well done, and some hate them outright. That's why the discretion thing is nice.

    We can take that LOST spamvertiser thing as an example of a junk thread that turned into a great one--while it is possible for some otherwise useless parodies to be saved, we won't be waiting for all of them to be fixed if there's a spree. We generally like to give threads a chance, but sometimes some threads get a chance when others don't--maybe it's a little unfair at times, but every thread can't be given a chance, I don't think.

    It's true, the JCC isn't as ordered as other boards--but a little tiny bit might help. As far as traffic goes, we hear you--making things interesting has its benefits. I like to balance my own sense of what's best with community feedback and with the rules themselves.

    All those things have to be kept in mind. I can't let myself be arbitrary, I can't let myself be pressured by the users, and I can't be tied to the rules. I have to work out and harmonize all three of those concerns. Sometimes that means one of those concerns go by the wayside--sometimes I have to do something I don't like, or the users don't like, or something that isn't strictly in the rules. All three of those things are bad, in isolation, but I don't think they're bad with all things being considered.
  16. MaidenLumpe VIP

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2000
    star 3
    Maybe we should have a parody board - a board where we can post all the parody threads that we want, so long as they don't use inappropriate words/have inappropriate topics.
  17. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    Well, that wouldn't be any fun, would it?

    Unless you mean reopening P&W for P&W style parody threads. That would be OK.

  18. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    You know, it's funny, but I almost considered suggesting just that. :p
  19. George_Roper Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2005
    star 7
    See I don't see why a parody like Carmen's should be locked because it's a 'twist' on the original thread and not having something to 'discuss'. Honestly, they're probably my favourite type of parody when done right. Effort was put into the thread and it's funny. People would have a laugh and it would probably get a reasonable amount of replies before sinking. It isn't going to clutter up the first page. The sprees on the other hand, are mainly drivel. There might be the odd good thread, but they're mainly just an excuse to post a thread without any effort.


    Maybe we could give out licenses to make parody threads...
  20. harpua Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 8
    So, I'd like to know what this was a parody of. :confused:

    I didn't make it as an intentional parody of anything... so I'm really not understanding why it was locked. It appears to have been ego related, and locked under the guise of parody.

    Again... I didn't create that thread to be a parody of anything... and I fail to see how it was classified as so.

    Anybody?

    Jello?
  21. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    Date Posted: 10/17 6:40pm Subject: the harpuah thread - Date Edited: 10/17 6:47pm (2 edits total) Edited By: GrandAdmiralJello

    Date Posted: 10/17 6:49pm Subject: The epic thread.... - Date Edited: 10/17 7:26pm (1 edits total) Edited By: GrandAdmiralJello

    Followed by:

    Date Posted: 10/17 7:33pm Subject: Jello is disgusting... - Date Edited: 10/17 8:57pm (2 edits total) Edited By: GrandAdmiralJello


    User appreciation, parody, parody spree, and baiting a moderator by defying a lock twice within the same hour. Generally, multiple offenses like that tend to result in a ban rather than just a hand spank.

    If you'd like to discuss this further in private, I'd be happy to.
  22. Everton Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2003
    star 10
    The allowance of parody threads is a grey area. It's a grey area that people supported opening up. Rightly so. Now the grey area is coming back for its revenge. It doesn't seem like it's easy to pin down a rule to cover all this - as Jello says - and so it must (IMO) be left at the disgression of the mod. I think if parody threads are going to be allowed we have to be comfortable with this grey area existing. If there are disagreements about its enforcement, or the mods get themselves into the occasional muddle over it (Carmen's thread), then I say so be it.

    Maybe it's a lesson that grey areas are bad and unsustainable, or maybe it's an example of how life can't always be made straightforward. If we had a rule, we'd only be losing something, somehow, and IMO we'd nly be back here in a few months complaining that the rule is too stifling.

    Mod disgression (without the silly error of Carmen's thread) FTW. We want parody threads, but we don't want a grey area. I'm not sure the goals are altogether compatible.
  23. George_Roper Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2005
    star 7
    No, the rule that was adopted caused the grey area. Not the allowance of parody threads themselves.
  24. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    I thought that was the point of the parody thread that we brought in when we outlawed parody threads. The point being you could have the comedy from amusing parody thread titles without spamming up the JCC with essentially one-up-manship.

    Why not return to using that more?
  25. harpua Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 8

    Wow Jello... you appear to be extremely frustrated with your "job."

    It was a Friday night, and those involved were just having fun... which is really what the place is intended for, isn't it?

    I don't know... I feel that when a moderator is aggro and bitter like you appear to have become in recent months, perhaps it's time to take a little break, or perhaps step down. I'm just not understanding the need to be so stiff lipped and bitter.

    Do you really view my threads as "baiting?" Really?

    I'm fine discussing this here... afterall, it's board related and relevant. There's no need to make it private. As far as I'm concerned, this isn't really all that serious.
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