So, just how offensive is the name "Redskins"?

Maybe we should change it to the Washington Negroes.

 

I think it's so stupid that teams have been forced to drop their names due to American Indians being offended.

If anything, it's kind of flattering that they're being remembered in the regionas they are from.

Why is Vlad Guerrero and the dude from the Indians backwards in their pix on this banner?

 

I'm sorry... how is it flattering to use a derogatory term and offensive, stereotyped image of an entire people as a mascot for a sports team (a position generally reserved for animals)?

 

It was not a position generally reserved for animals.

"A mascot ? originally a term for any person, animal, or object thought to bring luck"

"The word mascot has been traced back to a dialectic use in Provence and Gascony, where it was used to describe anything which brought luck to a household."

"Often the choice of mascot reflects a desired quality; a common example of this is the fighting spirit, in which a competitive nature is personified by warriors or predatory animals. Mascots may also symbolize a local or regional trait, such as the Dallas Cowboys, which refers to the Texan ranching tradition, or the Nebraska Cornhuskers, whose mascot is Herbie Husker (a man wearing overalls and a cowboy hat with corn husks coming out one pocket)."

"Many individuals who support the use of Native American mascots state that they are meant to be respect and to pay homage to Native American people. The argument is made that Native American mascots focus on bravery, courage and fighting skills rather than anything derogatory. Karl Swanson, vice-president of the Washington Redskins professional football team, declared in the magazine Sports Illustrated that his team's name "symbolizes courage, dignity, and leadership," and that the "Redskins symbolize the greatness and strength of a grand people."[5]

Others claim Native American mascots help promote the culture to those who might be unaware of its significance. Chief Illiniwek, the mascot for the University of Illinois, has been another figure who has come under scrutiny. However, in 1990 the Board of Trustees of the University of Illinois called the mascot a ?dignified? symbol: ?His ceremonial dance is done with grace and beauty. The Chief keeps the memory of the people of a great Native American tribe alive for thousands of Illinoisans who otherwise would know little or nothing of them.?[2] However, the tribal dance and costume was not of the Illini confederacy, but that of the Lakota tribe."

These quotes are from wikipedia on Mascots and Native American mascot controvery articles.

 

While I am in general in favor of keeping names like "Indians", "Chiefs", "Braves" and the such, and especially in favor of ones like "Illini" and "Seminoles", I must say I'm very opposed to the name Redskins.

 

No matter the origins of the term, the vast, vast, hugely vast majority of team mascots are animals. That is why I meant by "a position generally reserved for animals" as the language itself might suggest, since I said nothing about the origins or etymology of the word.

And although I'm impressed by your deftness with Wikipedia, the issue I raised is not that Native Americans are being used as emblems for a sports team, but that the team is called the Washington Redskins. I defy anyone around here to use the word "redskin" to refer to Native Americans in everyday language and come out of it unscathed.

 

I quoted that second part because it specifically talked about the Redskins issue.

"Many individuals who support the use of Native American mascots state that they are meant to be respect and to pay homage to Native American people. The argument is made that Native American mascots focus on bravery, courage and fighting skills rather than anything derogatory. Karl Swanson, vice-president of the Washington Redskins professional football team, declared in the magazine Sports Illustrated that his team's name "symbolizes courage, dignity, and leadership," and that the "Redskins symbolize the greatness and strength of a grand people."[5]

 

How does the VICE PRESIDENT of the team defending the team name prove anything? Would he be expected to do anything else?

 

I agree completely with Inty on this. Redskins is a name I am also opposed to.

 

Yeah, I also agree with Inty. Names like the Seminoles are fine.

 

The Fighting Irish don't complain, and that stereotypes all Irish as having short tempers.

I see the Redskins as not beign derogatory because it's a generalization of all Indians, not making fun of any group.

There's a local high school named the Palmer Terrors that used to have an Indian as their mascot. Now they are the Palmer Eagles...pretty stupid. I think thta the Terrors shoudl have remained but just changed their mascot.

I personally think that mascots should be viewed at as simply that, a mascot. it's not like we're calling a team the Clinton's or the Obama's.

Didn't the Seminoles have to stop using their mascot, the Seminole on the horse? That's stupid, in my opinion. If it's regional, keep it.

They tried getting the U. of Utah to drop the nickname Utes. How dumb would that have been? The Ute Indians are locals in that region...it's a way of paying tribute to the people that were there first.

 

Ahh...my argument is wrong because this statment is wrong. The Washington Redskins don't have a mascot, like I assumed from the statement above, so Redskins is used as a name, and not as a mascot for the team.

I back down.

 

The Fighting Irish would only be analogous if Notre Dame were known as the "Fighting Micks"
Which they are not.

All of your other analogies also fail on this point.

 

I don't really have a problem with any of them, but I'll agree with Inty (and co.) in that Redskins is definitely far worse than Seminoles/Illini or the Braves/Chiefs/Indians type of nicknames.

 

Isn't Indian not a PC term though? Why should that one be allowed?

 

Ahh, the PC Gestapo strikes again.

Maybe there shouldn't be ANY team names, we can just go with Team 1, 2... wait that wouldn't work because everyone would want to be team 1.. Team A, B, C... then. That way no one gets offended.

Wait we shouldn't even have sports because if people lose their self-esteem might be damaged..

Things like this are beyond ludicrous.

 

We could use suggestions from PETA and have nicknames/mascots such as the Pet Rocks* or Gym Socks*

*seriously proposed by PETA, did not make this up.

 

You don't hear the NAACP complain about the All-Blacks. It's descriptive. Indians were known as Redskins due to their skins tint. I dont' think it takes a brain surgeon to agree that it's descriptive, not deregatory.

It's not like they are the Cannibals and their mascot is an indian or whatever.

 

Agreed. Far worse things going on in the world than sports team names.

They should change the name of the NY Giants. It might offend tall people, you know?

 

Uh, Rohniss, objecting to "Redskins" is hardly a slippery slope.

The are far worse things in the world going on than kidnapping, rape, and murder too, does that mean we can only object to the single worst thing?

"Giants" isn't a derogatory term. "Redskins" is.

 

Sure it is. They prefer "big people."

 

Can you find me a source on that? An organization of people suffering from gigantism who are offended by the word "giants"?

 

ASO, exactly WHY do you think the term Redskins is offensive? I"m not trying to be a jerk, but instead of people saying why it isn't, back up your thoughts and prove to us why we should believe your way. You just can't say something is offensive and expect people to agree that it is.

 

Until last week, I didn't really find anything offensive about the Redskins. But Jason Campbell finally woke up and had a good game, so that might be changing which is good news for Redskins fans.

 

Exactly, What if being called "White" offended me? Could I demand to be referred to as "pigmently-challenged" or "Caucasian-American"? This whole debate is ridiculous.

Also, ASO people who have "dwarfism" take great offense to being called "dwarfs" or "midgets" they prefer "little people" or just people (you know what we all are). People are far to hung up on skin-color and perceived racism or intolerance. Mostly, because they sense they can make a quick buck out of it.