So Mace Windu isn't Dead when he gets pushed out of the window...

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by Darksithlord99, May 4, 2005.

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  1. TheCRZA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 4
    Maybe Mace, like Padme, died of a broken heart.

    You don't actually see Palpatine die, yet not one contests
    that he died at the end of ROTJ.
    What if all that force cloud stuff was just smoke and mirrors
    to pretend he had died.

    Mace isn't dead when he gets pushed out the window.
    That much is clear because he's shouting like a wee girl
    as he goes flying out into the Coruscant night.

    Anakin was focused and at one with the force when he fell.
    Mace was wore down from the battle, fried by a close up dose
    of lighting (the same kind that put Yoda on his ass for a minute)
    and was minus one arm.
    I don't think he was in much condition to do anything other
    than land.

    Like they say... It's no the fall that's gonna kill you...
  2. Darth_BamBam Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2005
    star 1
    Of course the other thing to keep in mind is the "Force" is only as strong as the author's intentions. As much as I hate to be the realist here, we see examples of the force being used to it's maximum capability at some times - Obi-Wan tossing Greivous like a rag doll - then other times when the Jedi barely use it - Jedi fighting General Greivous with a lightsaber, instead of force smashing him all over the place.

    That being said I believe we could argue indefinately, both sides of this providing documented proof of either side being correct depending on the situation we are pulling the proof from. However to answer this thread, I believe Mace was still crying when he was flying out the window, thus making him not dead...yet.
  3. JediCouncilMaster Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2005
    star 6
    It's possible he would land on his feet and leave unscathes but common sense tells us that he died. He was defenestrated and electricuted, so he dies. 20 stories down is total WHOA!
  4. DARK__SITH__LORD Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2006
    star 1
    Yeah...he isn't dead! he came to our Earth when he gets pushed out of the window!!!...hehehe...:D [face_laugh] :D
  5. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    There's a difference between Anakin and Mace. For one thing, Anakin was in a controlled fall. For another, he timed it so that he would grab on to Zam's speeder. Also Anakin didn't fall 1/2 a kilometer. He fell maybe fifty to a hundred feet. Mace, on the other hand, had no chance of surviving his fall for a bunch of reasons. The first is that he was severly tested by the duel with Palpatine. The second is that he was in shock, both from Anakin cutting off his hand and from Palpatine lighting him up. The third is that is that when Mace went out the window, he was given a VERY hard Force push and was well away from the side of the building when he actually began to fall. As for Mace colliding with somebody's speeder, go and watch any of the scenes in Palpatine's office in either Ep.II or III. The speeder traffic is way in the background. This is probably done intentionally to keep someone from parking out side the Chancellor's office with a missile launcher. Sorry, BamBam but you're trying to compare apples and oranges. Mace is a smear on the duracrete. Accept it.
  6. Bossk_Boy Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2005
    In the novelization, I beleive it says that Mace was dead when he flew out the window- the lightning killed him.

    Accept it- regardless on whether or not the novelization is correct ol' Mace is as dead as a doornail. RIP man.
  7. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    I don't recall that.Still if the Force lightening didn't get him, the fall did so either way, Mace is dead.
  8. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    There's a difference. Anakin made an intentional and calculated jump out of an air speeder. Mace was blasted with Lightning and sent hurtling out of a window, down twenty stories according to the ROTS novelization. As the script describes it, Mace's body is lifeless. The Sith Lightning is lethal and within another minute, Luke would've been dead had Vader not acted. Luke was beginning to black out as the ROTJ novelization describes.
  9. Rossa83 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2005
    star 4
    The scene doesn't explicitly say if Mace is dead or not. However, why would he choose not to reappear if he was still alive? Let's say he was. Don't you think he would have tried to rally with Yoda and OBW. Together they would be one hell of a strike-team. I doubt if Sideous and Vader could take those three down so easily. There just wouldn't be any reason why Mace should decide not to show himself to Yoda or OBW. And, what killed him in the meantime? In ROTJ Yoda says that Luke is the last Jedi....
  10. TheCRZA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 4
    I think there's also the symbolism that Mace reflected the
    parts of the old Jedi Order which would not change.
    Thus he couldn't survive.
    Obi Wan and Yoda survive and are able to adapt, barely,
    in time for Luke. Mace was inflexible.
    The rigid tree is snapped by the wind...
  11. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    The CRZA
    posted:


    "Like they say... It's no the fall that's gonna kill you..."



    ...it's the LANDING!!


    ***

    Question: What happens when an Organic "MEATBAG" falls from forty stories? [face_beatup] />
  12. MystikalMaceWindu Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2005
    star 3
    Actually, Mace dies because a certain traitor by the name of Anakin betrays the Jedi order, placing him, his fears, Padme, etc. over the Jedi order, so much so that he knowingly/willingly chooses Palpatine over the Jedi Order. Sure, ultimately, decisions that some Jedi made did contribue to Anakin's fall, but he is the one who made the choice to betray the Jedi, and to help kill a senior member of the Jedi.
    Let's not blame the Jedi now.
    Over the past year or more, I've found it interesting in a strange way that so many people are defending the likes of Palpatine and Anakin, both traitors, over the Jedi. You'll never find me defending the evil Palpatine and Anakin. Both are oppressors, tyrants, and evil.
  13. Wolfguard Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2005
    star 1
    I think you misinterpreted the point of that post. How was it a defense of Anakin or the Emperor? It mearly entertains the possibility of symbolism linked to the situation and the individuals mentioned. Sure the Jedi were the good guys, however being "good" does not equal being perfect, nor making decisions which are 100% correct each and every time they are made. I think the theory is pretty spot on, especially when one considers Yoda's discussion between Obi-Wan and Mace in Ep II in regards to many Jedi being "arrogant," including the ones who were supposed to know better.
  14. Mandalorian-Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 3
    [image=http://www.cinemascope.gr/starwars/encyclopedia/images/lars_cliegg.jpg]

    "Your Mace is dead son, accept it."
  15. MystikalMaceWindu Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2005
    star 3
    OK, if that's the case, then I stand corrected.
    But your post was rather brief and blunt. You said the rigid tree is snapped by the wind. Almost sounds as if you're saying the Jedi got what they had coming to them. the reason why I responded how I did is because there's a group of people who do indeed blame the Jedi (namely Mace) for Anakin's fall. They sympathize and side with Anakin and even Palpatine, while pointing fingers at the Jedi. I still blame Anakin. Anakin made such choices. He knew exactly what he was doing.
    I've also said that yes, some of the Jedi's actions did contribute to Anakin's behavior, but that doesn't absolve Anakin of any blame, and doesn't change the fact that he betrayed the Jedi, and chose to do so. And doesn't change that he oppressed and slaughtered millions.
    Yes, the Jedi didn't change. Yoda laments that, more so in the ROTS novel, saying he didn't change the Jedi to adapt with the times. But I don't blame Mace for that. The Jedi as a whole did indeed fail to change. I don't see Mace as being symbolic of that. I don't single out Mace as many others do.
    I look more at Obi-Wan's words to Padme. That they were ALL deceived by a LIE. And I blame the likes of Palpatine and Anakin. I don't blame the victim... the Jedi.
    Mace was doing the right thing. It was a last-second desperate act.... what else were they to do? It's for the same reason why Yoda and Obi-Wan confront Palpatine and Anakin. There's no time to sit back and assemble....
  16. Wolfguard Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2005
    star 1
    Well first of all, it was not I who was the author. I (like you) have interpreted the post in a manner which may or may not be the author's intent. 2nd, I'm simply contending your interpretation, which is not to say it's wrong, but only something I disagree with. That said...

    Well if you consider how the Jedi were, they followed strict rules/patterns and essentially
    did not waver or wavered very little. I think that is the correllation between them and the "rigid tree" which was broken by "the wind." The wind is = to the winds of change. In nature, life must find a way to adapt to change or it dies out, as what happened to the Jedi. That is not a statement which is for or against life changing nor whether it is deserving of survival or not; it's simply a reality and a fact of life.

    See, I don't agree with that at all. There was no reason to trust Anakin based on his past actions. Moreover, HE is the one that chose the Dark Side. He could just as easily have chosen to reject it. He chose it for selfish reasons, i.e. his inability to let go of emotional and physical ties. Mace didn't cut off his own hand - Anakin did. Mace didn't make Anakin impatient, Anakin lacked self-dicipline. Mace didn't marry Padme and try to keep it a secret, Anakin did. I could go on, but I'm sure you understand and in fact may agree.

    Exactly. Two words: personal responsability.

    Yes. While, as you say, some of the Jedi's actions may have contributed to Anakin's poor choices, the key words are "Anakin's...choices." Not the Jedi's, not Palpatine's, not the Sand People's - Anakin's. You can't control what other people choose to do, you can only control yourself and your own choices.

    I disagree. Mace, being part of the Jedi, is as culpable of that inability to adapt as any other Jedi. He is symbolic in the sense that not only were his actions single minded at that crucial point, but he was Anakin's "sacrificial lamb" in regards to rejecting the ideology and lives of the Jedi.

    Then do you think that Anakin would have done to Obi-wan what he did to Mace, had his Master been the one who had fought Palpatine?

    I agree.
  17. kyoshiro-kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2003
    Alas, Mace is definitely dead. He died of a combination of gravity-poisoning and lightningitis, worst case seen in these parts in a long time,,,,,,,,a long time.
  18. Palps Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2003
    star 1

    LOL!!! [face_laugh]



    I'm pretty sure that Mace is a goner.
  19. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    http://chunkpicard.ytmnd.com/

    Yeah, too bad Mace couldn't deflect the lightning like this kid repelled bullets!
  20. MystikalMaceWindu Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2005
    star 3
    Glad to see someone agree with me on most of my points. AGain, most people just sit back and blame Mace, and Mace alone. They find Mace more guilty than they do Anakin. If Mace is guilty of trying to save the galaxy, then that's fine with me. Better than being guilty of betraying the Jedi, and oppressing the galaxy, as Anakin is.

    And, as for the question of whether Anakin would also attack
  21. jedipadawanjoe14 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2005
    star 3
    i dont see why there is stll an arguement going on here....for one thing, all i hear is "well anakin survived a fall in AOTC and mace fell a long way in AOTC in the arena also" humungous difference here.......in AOTC they both were completely conscious and did not fall that much, in ROTS, mace had just been strugling with a sith lord, and his hand cut off....but then i hear the old "well luke only had one hand in ESB and he survived"....well luke also wasnt being electricuted on the way down....but then i hear the "well he was electricuted in ROTJ and so was anakin in AOTC and so was yoda in ROTS"....first off, the emporer was about to kill luke, and there is reason to believe he just wanted luke to slowly suffer, and he also wasnt falling down quite a long way.....in AOTC anakin got about 2 seconds of lightning, and tok a minute or so to even get up , same with yoda in ROTS, and they werent even falling hundreds of feet after getting a hand cut off, mace wouldnt be able to control the fall

    but then i hear" well i have confidence that mace will come back in the tv show and challenge the emporere again or vader"...for one, GL says there is no main characters in the upcoming tv show, and for 2, what point is there in mace coming back to just die again???

    and yet the biggest peice of evidnce, is GL ans SLJ talking of maces DEATH scene...the key word in that statement being DEATH....hes dead
  22. emporergerner Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2005
    star 4
    Very well, put.=D=

    I agree he's dead people just need to get over that.




    Emporer Gerner Dark lord of the Sith
  23. TheCRZA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 4
    We all knew Mace was going to die way before ROTS.
    SLJ admitted it openly in interviews by AOTC.

    So:
    We know Mace dies in ROTS.
    +
    Mace suffers a serious attack by Palpatine and Anakin.
    +
    Mace is never seen again.
    =
    Mace is dead.
  24. MystikalMaceWindu Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2005
    star 3
    The reason why the "argument" is still going is because people are not moving this thread forward. They keep on posting the same exact thing over and over and over again.
    simply offering such posts, "oh, well, he's dead and people need to get over that" isn't much of a post, doesn't offer much in terms of thought and comes off as rather snotty and dismissive.
    People also need to stop anointing themselves "experts" on Star Wars, especially when it is work of fiction, and GL can change anything he wants to, at any time, and he often has taken strict right or left turns, throwing in events and things that few people could have foreseen.
    There aren't really facts in a work of fiction, and only GL and those closely connected to the creation of the Star Wars world can throw down official conclusions about Star Wars.
    Mace could be resurrected at any point.
    Even after someone else's post, one that could move this thread forward at least a tiny bit (the question about whether Anakin would have done the same to Obi-Wan as he did Mace), yet, again, we get the whole glut of "Mace is dead, get over it," posts.
    Imagine if we all just spoke that way to each other. "Vanilla ice cream sucks, get over it."
    "So, your favorite show ended, get over it."
    "So, there's going to be no more Star Wars movies, get over it."
    that's a major reason why this thread is still here. If people would move beyond such dismissive attitudes, people wouldn't have to tread the same water....
  25. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Mace is dead. Lucas doesn't resurrect the dead. The eu will not resurrect him. Lucas just made more pronouncments and Lucas Books is adhering to them. The man is dead. Leave him rest in peace. The tv series will not have any film Jedi. Just original creations and minor players.
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