So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace?

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by sdj, May 18, 2003.

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  1. Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2001
    star 4
  2. Cometgreen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2002
    star 4
    "Inded, the only reason why I would watch 'Revolutions' is to see what finally ahppens to Agent Smith, I really' don't give a damn about the heroes."

    That's the only reason I want to see Reloaded. Smith is one of the best villians on the screen, after Palpatine.

    "Mr. Anderson." Ah, classic.

    Cometgreen
  3. stewart-18 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2003
    star 1
    "Mr. Anderson." Ah, classic."

    I see we finally agree on something.

    I saw the film last wed night. The mod edited out my spoiler about the end.

  4. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    I think Reloaded has been much better recieved than TPM. The reviews are also a lot better and even the bad ones are not as scathing as the negative TPM reviews. Sorry, but this thread is a pointless attempt to "rub it in" to the fans disspointed by Reloaded. Pretty lame sdj.
  5. DarthSil Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2003
    star 4
    No more lamer than posts that bash TPM. ;)
    darklordoftech likes this.
  6. Lurking_Around Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 6
    No more lamer than posts that bash TPM

    Good point. Why would a post bashing 'Reloaded' be lame while a post bashing TPM is not? Let's have some equality and freedom to express opinions here. Then again, I am speaking as someone who bashes both TPM and 'Reloaded', so it is rather amusing to see TPM bashers suddenly defending 'Reloaded', just like the TPM defenders! [face_laugh]
    darklordoftech likes this.
  7. sdj Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    Hawk I really disagree. I have yet to read a truly good review, granted I haven't read them all. Yes some are more positive than others but none say it's an all around good movie. Many reviews are apologetic saying things like "well you can't expect it to be as good as the original" or "at least it's lowered our expectations for the next one".

    Plus many other fans are in shock about how it turned out. Saying things like I don't like the twists, the CG is overused, and they better make it up to us in the next one.

    If you don't see the similarites to this and TPM then we must've been on two different worlds in 99.

    The whole idea interests me so I've been researching it. It really tells you alot about different people's perceptions.
  8. DarthSil Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2003
    star 4
    I've listed several bad reviews of Matrix Reloaded and the reason being these reviews were from dedicted fans of the original Matrix, which of course, makes them a million times more relevant.

    And by the way, none of their reviews were posted on Rotten Tomatoes.
  9. sdj Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    You know something else that is crazy that some of the reviews that rottentomatoes considered as good had quotes like theses

    "Once the action gets started ? and unfortunately that takes a while ? Reloaded is nearly as invigorating as the original."

    "At times, the action here seems a little too choreographed for its own good. But admittedly, that's a minor thing, considering how stunning some of it is."

    "'Wait a minute, he's who? And they need to do what? That doesn't make any... Aw forget it, here comes some kung-fu!'"

    "By itself, The Matrix Reloaded is deeply flawed, but ultimately entertaining."

    "While I enjoyed it immensely, Reloaded didn't upgrade my system like the first one did."

    "This picture never accumulates the sense of shared adventure that the first one did, and though the special effects are even better than before, they cannot be new twice."

    "Plug in. Again. But be prepared for some glitches in the software."


    "The effects here are dazzling, there is no other word for it. . . but when it comes to serious food for thought, this is just an appetizer compared to the first film"


    "So magnificently punch-drunk on its own sense of the operatic and messianic that it's possible to appreciate this great, sloppy, bloated beast as something of a masterpiece of high camp."

    "A ping-pong battle between slowly-spoken philosophical mumbo-jumbo and some truly explosive action cinema."

    "Reloaded is far from bad. It's not great either. The visuals alone make it worth seeing but most everything else falls way short of expectations."

    "Is it as good as The Matrix? No, but it does offer hope that the final installment will be a knockout."


    ". I watched The Matrix to freshen up on all that coolness the night before seeing Reloaded. I would still watch it again over this. ."

    "The action is fun to watch but it doesn't get the old heart pumping which pretty much sums up The Matrix Reloaded."

    "No, it's not great. No, it's not a disaster."

    "The Wachowski brothers likely wanted to provide their film with that greater 'meaning', but did they have to make great stretches of it boring as well?"

    "The Matrix Reloaded may have it's problems, but it certainly isn't a bad film. It suffers from many of the same problems of other 'great' film sequels"

    "While it's exhilarating fun, as an overall piece of storytelling, this reboot never really hits the heights of the ultra-cool The Matrix, which re-invented the rules for sci-fi epics in 1999."

    "Plug in. Again. But be prepared for some glitches in the software."

    "This picture never accumulates the sense of shared adventure that the first one did, and though the special effects are even better than before, they cannot be new twice."

    "Either do it right and deepen an already rich storyline, or give in and make an unabashed action movie. Fortunately, even with its many flaws, The Matrix Reloaded succeeds admirably as the latter."

    "Reloaded piles on much more fighting and firepower but lacks the impact of the original."

    "Be prepared to feel let down whenever the action lets up."



    AND THESE ARE THE GOOD REVIEWS! You don't even want to see the bad ones!
  10. DarthSil Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2003
    star 4
  11. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    "Reloaded was amazing, and it's a shame that some people don't give it the respect it deserves."

    Well I tried, but the theatre manager wouldn't let me up into the projection booth to wipe my ass with the print.

    Some people.


    I would compare Reloaded more to AotC, both aren't really movies but just a collection of scenes strung together, without any real narrative, and full of huge amounts of time when nothing happens.
  12. sdj Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    It really does show how peoples perceptions are. Some are fans of a series and are going to find the good in the films no matter what. I don't think any filmaker actively sets out to make a bad film. I can't see the good in Matrix 2 and I can't see the bad in TPM or AotC but maybe I have blinders on. Really who cares? If I enjoy it I enjoy it. It is an interesting study in human behavior though and I'd hate to say it but all comes down to choice. *LOL* I sat through TMR thinking how could anyone possibly like this. But people do. I don't think the majority will, but it's personal taste. Gives me some insight into the PT detractors side of things and hopefully will give the Matrix 2 enthusiasts insight into the TPM lovers side.

  13. sdj Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    Another thing that strikes me as funny is how the TMR defenders are saying "you can't judge it until you see Revolutions." Sound familiar?

    I'm laughing at myself too btw.
  14. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    even if a movie is part of a saga, each chapter must be judge individually.

    What happens to people who like TPM and the matrix, but hate AotC and RELOADED?

    The brothers and Lucas must really have dropped the ball because middle chapters are ususally my favorite.
  15. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace?

    and thats a burden I wouldn't wish on anyone.
    darklordoftech likes this.
  16. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    My main problem with both matirix movies is that they didn't follow their own rules, which makes it difficult to take the movies seriously. However matrix1 was tightly put together, much like (but not as good as) ANH.

    My main problem with SW PT is that GL is so obsessed with doing what he couldn't on the OT that he's lost sight of everything he did do.
  17. sdj Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    I guess what you loved about the OT is different than what I loved about the OT Scumb. I think the things that carried over from the OT to PT must be the things I like and unfortuneately some of the things you liked from the OT were lost. I'll admit that much between the OT and PT are different. In my opinion thats not a bad thing but I can see how to others it would be.

    What I liked about the original Matrix was that it moved along well, was paced perfectly, the backdrop of the Matrix was a great setting for a smart fx driven action film. Now the Matrix seems to have become a practice in "how much can we trip you out" instead of being a story that you can follow and take moment to moment.
  18. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    "Reloaded was amazing, and it's a shame that some people don't give it the respect it deserves."

    Well I tried, but the theatre manager wouldn't let me up into the projection booth to wipe my ass with the print.


    [face_laugh]
  19. Darth Sin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 1999
    star 5
    I am die-hard Star Wars fan, but I am also a realist. I don't think that Reloaded is the TPM for the Matrix.

    I compare it with ESB of the Star Wars series. The film was evry entertaining and went about developing the characters we knew from the first film, and then introducing new characters that would play a role in the last.

    We must take into account that Reloaded is the middle act of the trilogy, and so it is not in any way a stand alone film.

    I was completely satisfied with what occurred on film. I will say that yes, it was pretty slow in the beginning and I thought the dance/celebration scene was unnecessary, but the others scenes in Zion were important in that they are given to prepare for the last film.

    Reloaded is much better than TPM in many ways, of which some have already voiced.

    I think the truth is, many Star Wars need to stop comparing other films to Star Wars films, just because we want it to be #1 of all films.

    I think this will just give you unnecesary headaches and pain to do this. We have to appreciate Star Wars for what it is and what Lucas has done. In my opinion, if there had never been a George Lucas and the Star Wars films, there would be no Matrix or Lord of the Rings.

    Thanks to Lucas, we can appreciate these other films, and let them have their place in society. :)

    Darth Sin! :cool:
  20. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Rebel Scumb
    "My main problem with both matirix movies is that they didn't follow their own rules, which makes it difficult to take the movies seriously."

    Excellent point RS. Good to see you back btw. :)
    The Wachowskis give you one too many paradoxes, until you just give up and accept anything can happen, which diminishes the drama and danger we could feel for these characters.
    They apparently thought one big twist wasn't enough, but had to throw everything in to the point of exhausting the audience.

    They could've left the "deep" sh** to the subtext of the film instead of on the surface.

    Keep It Simple Stupid. ;)

    sdj
    "Another thing that strikes me as funny is how the TMR defenders are saying "you can't judge it until you see Revolutions." Sound familiar."

    [face_laugh]

    I know, it really is telling how people have an almost "mine is better than yours" attitude. It really is silly.

    IMO, The Matrix was a fine film with a great, classic science fiction story at its heart.
    Reloaded is a film with some great action, slow spots, bland dialogue, and no heart. There's not enough there to really care.

    It does sound familiar. And most of the reviews I've read have pointed out the great action sequences surrounded by weak narrative and bland dialogue.

    They said many of the same things about TPM curiously.

    It took Lucas 23 years and 4 films to mess up the SW saga.
    It took the Wachowskis 2 films and 4 years. IMO.
  21. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    My main problem with both matirix movies is that they didn't follow their own rules, which makes it difficult to take the movies seriously.

    The biggest contradiction I've been trying to figure out, if Neo is the key to fixing the matrix, why did they spend the entire first film trying to kill him?
  22. General_Crix_Madine Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2001
    star 2
    They are just movies.....





    have fun....

  23. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    Durwood:

    The agents may or may not have been in on the full extent of their role, but knowingly or not, they were following the Architect's design. Neo's "death" in the first film may well have been necessary to draw out his full power.
  24. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    Durwood: The biggest contradiction I've been trying to figure out, if Neo is the key to fixing the matrix, why did they spend the entire first film trying to kill him?

    I thought you said you completely understood these movies Durwood, and you scoffed at the idea of people going 3 or 4 times to see Reloaded to try to "figure it out" when you got it all in one sitting.

    These are the things that people are enjoying discussing right now. I liked the "mumbo-jumbo" parts.
  25. sdj Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    So maybe Durwood didn't understand it all but is that what made him have a bad experience? I think not.

    It's actually like the whole chosen one thing in SW. It's destiny and part of a plan that comes from a higher power. Think of the agents like the Seperatists...they have different goals than Palpatine but they ultimately serve his purpose.

    Think about those that didn't understand the whole clone army thing and do not like the film? Is that the reason they don't like the film? Probably not. I think the primary reason people didn't like TMR is because it was slow and after all that waiting it just led up to a boring speech.
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