So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace?

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by sdj, May 18, 2003.

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  1. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    While the term "sister" may have been popular in the 30's (although I don't recall any old time movie stars saying anything like 'Not this ship, sister!") it was still very much a product of the 70's. I think it was just one of those things that Ford slipped in to make the dialogue sound more "natural," although he miscalculated by using lingo that would definitely date the film.

    As for 3P0's AOTC humor, it still gets a smile out of me and I really don't see what the big deal is. To my ears, it's no worse than 3P0 nattering on during ESB's carbon freezing and subsequent escape scene.
  2. Clonetrooper1000 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 3
    DrEvazan: "shoddy editing"

    Actually, there is very little wrong with the editing in the film. Some of the opening scenes of ESB have some poorly edited shots. Likewise, AOTC may have a stutter or two, but does that make the shoddy editing. The more creative (rather than technical) side of the editing was again overseen by Lucas and the editing on all 5 films are very good.

    "the insipid nature of the "comedy" in the prequels is just one of many many problems i have with the films."

    Thanks for the correction, as you did actually say "i think think only the PT has lame comedy, so i am not a fan of the PT" which indicates your hatred of the prequels is based either mainly or solely on the comedy factor.
  3. winter_chili Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2002
    star 5
    the comedy in AOTC was great, the chessy one liners

    but tpm wasnt even for like 12 year olds, when i went to see it when i was 10 none of us found jar jar very funny, though i will put out the audience laughed, thats one thing i really remembered, the audience laughed at alot of jarjars antics, i looked around expecting to see 8 year olds but it turned out the people laughing were like 40 year old moms
  4. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
  5. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    winter chili what made you become a Star Wars fan?

    Special Editions? Just curious. You would be one of the "new recruits" if that's the case.

  6. winter_chili Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2002
    star 5
    star wars a new hope was the first movie i ever saw and retained, i saw it for the first time when i was 4, ive been a fan ever since
  7. Darth_Insidious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2002
    star 4
    Clonetrooper, I'm completely sick of our sequel-success argument, so I'm going to end it right here: everything you said was 100% right and everything I said was 100% wrong. My sincerest apologies for taking up your time with my obviously ludicrous claims.

    You win. Give yourself a well-deserved pat on the back. :D

    As for humor, that of the PT is simply cliched, annoying, and groan-inducing.

    Threepio: Oh, this is such a drag.

    Threepio: I'm quite beside myself.


    Ahahahaha! It's funny because he's actually being dragged. And because he's actually beside himself. Oh the hilarity! George, you are a true comic genius.
  8. winter_chili Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2002
    star 5

    As for humor, that of the PT is simply cliched, annoying, and groan-inducing.



    you are vastly underestimate how stupid people are, at both my aotc showing everyone laughed at those jokes, and the worse part was that it took everyone l;ike 3 seconds to even understand them, i wonder how long it took for them to understand that they sucked
  9. Clonetrooper1000 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 3
    Darth_Insidious: "Clonetrooper, I'm completely sick of our sequel-success argument, so I'm going to end it right here: everything you said was 100% right and everything I said was 100% wrong. My sincerest apologies for taking up your time with my obviously ludicrous claims."

    Very well then. I let it go this time. ;)

    Darth_Insidious: "As for humor, that of the PT is simply cliched, annoying, and groan-inducing."

    I don't seem to remember anyone criticising it or being annoyed by it. Its not meant to be a focal line of dialogue. Its merely secondary fun.

    Darth_Insidious: "Ahahahaha! It's funny because he's actually being dragged. And because he's actually beside himself. Oh the hilarity! George, you are a true comic genius."

    I think most humans can appreciate what a pun is and accept as just that. You obviously have problems with that.

    Its really just a criticism you now here from a few fans to display how bad they think the humour is. The truth is that they are the only puns in the two prequel films. Therefore they are not reflective of the overall prequel humour anyway. I think most people would find the humour fine anyway.

    Here is how I think this criticism probably starts.

    Basher #1: "What can we criticise the prequels for now?"

    Basher #2: "Well what is there that is in these films that is not in the original trilogy and we haven't complained about yet? Come on we don't want to run out of stuff to complain about. Think!"

    Basher #1: "Puns! Remeber those two puns by C-3PO in the arena. I mean those 10 seconds were just ruined man! Let's complain about them."

    There is nothing wrong with those lines. If two small puns bother you then you have severe issues. ;)
  10. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    At least 3P0 wasn't calling somebody a "stuck-up scruffy looking nerf herder."
  11. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "I don't seem to remember anyone criticising it or being annoyed by it."

    Just a few posts up...

    *Jogs CT1K's memory* :D

    "Its not meant to be a focal line of dialogue."

    Hence the problem. Were this not the case, why have so many cut-scenes to focal...uh, focus on it? ;)

    "I think most humans can appreciate what a pun is and accept as just that. You obviously have problems with that."

    Because I'm not human? ?[face_plain]

    Basher #1: "What can we criticise the original trilogy for now?"

    "At least 3P0 wasn't calling somebody a "stuck-up scruffy looking nerf herder."

    "it's no worse than 3P0 nattering on during ESB's carbon freezing and subsequent escape scene."

    "There is nothing wrong with those lines. If two small puns bother you then you have severe issues."


    Ironic, isn't it? :)
  12. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    But those lines DON'T bother us. That's the point. Durwood compared the ESB nattering to a moment that gets a smile out of him.

    I find Threepio's antics in the arena hilarious, and I also chuckle at the carbon chamber nattering and the nerf-herder line.

    (This goes back to my earlier point: DROID ABUSE IS FUNNY. And has ALWAYS been funny.)

    My theater was laughing at all of Threepio's misadventures, including the puns. (Admittedly, the puns got some groans too. I almost think that's part of the fun of it -- BECAUSE it's Threepio, who is a character with no sense of humor, irony, double meanings, what have you, he wouldn't realize that what he's saying is a pun. See "My parts are showing" sexual reference in TPM.)

    I think the "such a drag" line would have been funnier if it had been quieter. For some reason sometimes things are funnier if said by a character in the distance.

    Actually, while we're on the subject, the scruffy-looking nerf herder is an excellent line to use as a sort of yardstick of SW's humor in terms of tone.

    I bet an 'ordinary' movie would have had Leia respond with a quiet, biting "You are SO lame." Followed by rolled eyes. COMEDY GOLD! [face_plain]

    If ESB was being made in Hollywood today you can bet that line would be changed. Can't have cheesy lines like that for 'actresses' of the 'caliber' of Sarah Michelle Gellar, or Jennifer Lopez, or Britney Spears (I wonder if she'll ever try and star in a movie again...)! No, gotta have 'edge', gotta be 'cool', gotta have 'attitude'.



    Rick McCallum loves you!
  13. Clonetrooper1000 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 3
    MeBeJedi: "Ironic, isn't it?"

    Not really. I am sure Durwood is not at all bothered by those jokes from ESB. It is merely a comparison to those prequel pun examples that do bother certain people.

    MeBeJedi: "Just a few posts up..."

    In reference to the initial audience reaction and reviews. The humour was never really subject to much criticism at all.

    MeBeJedi: "why have so many cut-scenes to focal...uh, focus on it?"

    Well firstly. "Focal" relates to "focus" in describing terms. What we call an adjective. I could have said "a line of dialogue of focus", but that's would not be good english, would it? ;)

    If I am not mistaken, last time you questioned my English, you were wrong. It was then that you realised that some English words are spelt differently in the USA than in the UK. And are you not a teacher of this subject? Ironic, isn't it? [face_laugh]

    Anyway, you were always so good for veering the topic off the point, as you have so proved again. More to the point of your comment, I believe the cut scenes were not for the dialogue but for watching what was happening with the droids. Thank goodness because R2 kind of got lost a little between the factory and the arena scenarios.

    Out of curiosity, is there anything you do like about Episodes I and II?
  14. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Me: "At least 3P0 wasn't calling somebody a "stuck-up scruffy looking nerf herder."

    Me: "it's no worse than 3P0 nattering on during ESB's carbon freezing and subsequent escape scene."

    Somebody: "There is nothing wrong with those lines [in
    Attack Of The Clones]. If two small puns bother you then you have severe issues."

    MeBeJedi: Ironic, isn't it?


    Not in the least, because those examples I provided from ESB don't bother me, nor do the humorous puns in Clones. No, the irony is that "bashers" are willing to condemn the prequels for exhibiting the exact same playfulness evident in the original films.

    Edit: ...or Britney Spears (I wonder if she'll ever try and star in a movie again...)!

    If she promises to do a scene in the nude I'll be there opening night! :p
  15. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "In reference to the initial audience reaction and reviews. The humour was never really subject to much criticism at all." ?[face_plain]

    That's meaningless. Everything is subject to criticism as well as praise. Once again, you presume too much to support your position.

    "but that's would not be good english, would it? ;) "

    Well, as with the rest of my post, you clearly missed the intended humor of my post, not that it's "really subject to much criticism at all", right? Had it been a true mistake, the "...uh, focus" would not have been there, right? ;)

    Maybe it's just too early for humor. :(

    "Anyway, you were always so good for veering the topic off the point, as you have so proved again."

    Well, I'll let someone else explain the point of my post to you. I'm still having too much fun to waste it on you.

    "Out of curiosity, is there anything you do like about Episodes I and II?"

    The ending. :p

    (Ahh, stop it, MBJ! [face_laugh] )

    "Not in the least, because those examples I provided from ESB don't bother me"

    So the examples you brought up to illustrate your opinion, don't?

    Okay, I'm convinced. ?[face_plain]
  16. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    No, you're just confused. Re-read my posts again. It makes perfect sense.
  17. Clonetrooper1000 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 3
    MeBeJedi: "Everything is subject to criticism as well as praise."

    I kind of meant that the humour (and the puns in particular) did not recieve much criticism from the reviews I have read.

    MBJ: "you clearly missed the intended humor of my post"

    My apologies.

    MBJ: "Maybe it's just too early for humor."

    I can't use that excuse. It's 5.25pm over here.

    Durwood: "Not in the least, because those examples I provided from ESB don't bother me, nor do the humorous puns in Clones. No, the irony is that "bashers" are willing to condemn the prequels for exhibiting the exact same playfulness evident in the original films."

    Exactly what I was saying. Good point Durwood.



  18. Darth_Insidious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2002
    star 4
    But you see, "scruffy looking nerf-herder" is also a bad line. So is "laser-brain". I wouldn't argue that they're comic gold; quite the opposite, they stick out to me every time I'm watching ESB.

    I don't think the OT is perfect. I just don't need to bring it down by taking minor problems and exaggerating them in order to make it seem as if the PT is just as good.

    The OT would have bad/badly-delivered lines peppered throughout, ROTJ more than the other two. The PT has bad/badly delivered lines in almost every single scene. That's the difference.
  19. Clonetrooper1000 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 3
    Darth_Insidious: "I just don't need to bring it down by taking minor problems and exaggerating them in order to make it seem as if the PT is just as good."

    Nobody is saying that. However, on a particular topic it is interesting to note that those particular aspects that are so despised by certain users like yourself are sometime equally inherent in the original trilogy.
  20. Darth_Insidious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2002
    star 4
    I'd change "sometimes" to "rarely". The PT takes the errors of the OT and magnafies them many times over.

    And Donnie Darko isn't the greatest debut by a director since Citizen Kane, The Shawshank Redemption is. :p
  21. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    "No, the irony is that "bashers" are willing to condemn the prequels for exhibiting the exact same playfulness evident in the original films."

    As much as you'd like to make it sound as if "bashers' have some sort of unfair double standard or blind allegiance to the OT, I'd like to say that I think some people here just aren't watching the OT close enough to really appreciate it.

    The difference between the C3PO in the original trilogy and the C3PO in the prequels isn't just the jokes, but in how the character is portrayed. In two prequel films already, C3PO is relegated to lame puns and slapstick humor. He's, do I dare say, absolutely useless in these movies, other than for decoration and fanboy recognition. C3PO is two-dimensional and his antics could've been traded with any other CG character. There was nothing that C3PO did in AOTC that was unique to his character. We learn nothing new about what he's like or how he acts. Unfortunately, when the saga is finished, we'll be introduced to a goofy C3PO in the PT who suddenly becomes a more intelligent, loyal protocal droid in ANH and ESB. It doesn't match. It doesn't fit. It's not consistent. Which is why, in my opinion, the prequels have done a poor job of properly introducing many of the main SW characters. I find the introduction of Obi-Wan, R2, Yoda, and C3PO more endearing in Episode 4 and 5, rather than Episode I. R2's intro wasn't too bad in TPM, though.

    Compare the dialogue of C3PO between both trilogies and it's evident which one better defines the character and which one is there just for comic relief.

    And I'd say there are at least three times the goofy antics/jokes in the PT than in ANH and ESB put together.






  22. Clonetrooper1000 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 3
    Darth_Insidious: "And Donnie Darko isn't the greatest debut by a director since Citizen Kane, The Shawshank Redemption is."

    Good shout. There are a few good contenders in my book (particularly more recent films from the mid 70's onward). I just stuck that up cause I am on a buzz with that film at the moment. I am watching the DVD all the time. Perfectly shot; perfectly edited; perfect soundtrack and score; perfect performances; perfectly clever, funny, scary and sad altogether; perfectly ignored on its original release; perfectly misunderstood by Roger Ebert (Shock!) Simply flawless cinema in my book.

    Hey what about Piranha 2 by James Cameron? [face_laugh] [face_plain]
  23. Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2001
    star 4
    Great points JWILLIAMS. C3PO is yet another dissapointment of the PT.

    But here's some good news PT fans...I have found some great PT scenes! Yes. Drama, tension and quality PT entertainment. It's "Knights of The Old Republic"! I watched the introduction to the game and the opening stages at a friend's house and I have to say the entire production value and scenes rival anything TPM or AOTC offer. And I never even played it, just watched. I highly recommend!
  24. Darth_Insidious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2002
    star 4
    NEVER bring up Piranha 2. :mad: Jim rules.

    Chicago's also one of the best directorial debuts.
  25. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    "I kind of meant that the humour (and the puns in particular) did not recieve much criticism from the reviews I have read"

    have you forgotten all about Jar-Jar?

    and i have no problem with "scruffy looking nerf-herder". it fits within the Star Wars universe, is unique to the Star Wars series, is appropriate to the character who says the line, and is ORIGINAL, unlike "this is a drag" "this party's over" "that's gotta hurt" and "i'm beside myself".
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