So, Palpatine Created Anakin?

I just read Rolling Stone mag. and GL said that this was left up to the audience. So I'm sure there is an answer to this question.

 

where did you get that Anakin was stronger than the emperor at this point? I know in Episode III he thinks he is, he wants to rule the galaxy with Padme and get rid of the Emperor but we are not sure he can do this. Maybe he might think he is but do we really know? It's speculation at this point. Maybe he was stronger but the Emperor has the expirience, knowledge, and skill.

 

But Vader was defeated by Luke Skywalker. He couldn't have mouch power if he got defeated by Luke, the Eperor almost killed Luke, so his powers were mouch greater. Besides that, Vader never used the sithpower flashing out of his hands, therefore, was he realy a sith? In the final scen on Endor in ep.6, Luke looks realy evil, like he is hiding something. Maybe a little twist IF George Lucas, or an aprentice of his, wants to make sequals. Maybe Luke turned to the dark side by killing his father, turning him godd made Luke evil?

 

Vader never learned force lightning because Sidious kept many secrets of the force from him to prevent DV from overthrowing him. Anakin was stronger than anyone with the force but his rage blinded him to it and he never learned how to effectively control it as Luke did. Sidious would never allow Vader to become tooo powerful and continued to manipiulate him until the day they died

 

i thought he couldnt use force lightning cause he was essentially a machine..thats what the visual dictionary said im pretty sure.

 

It was all a lie to entice Ani toward the Darkside

 

No, it wasn't a lie - but it wasn't Palpatine's doing, either. Remember, Palpatine didn't have that power - it was Plagueis who did it. Palpatine just took advantage of it after he killed him.

 

O.k. let's get something straight, Luke NEVER turned to the dark side. ( In fact, he doesn't do this till much, much later and its for learning purposes only and he leaves it ). He was as emotional as his father but with Padme's restraint, that means he kept a level head about him even when he didn't look like it he did. Secondly, Luke never really defeated his father, Vader's power was drained by Luke because he could not hate him! He was his only surviving relative, the son of he and Padme he could have never killed Luke but he would have let Luke kill him. He knew he would because he could not have fought him with hate like a true Sith and so that made him weakened by Luke. He never really defeated his father, his father just choose because of his love for his son and daughter to let down the walls of hatred surrounding him and came back to the light side of the force.

 

Exactly, Palpy is not stupid. Its one thing to teach Dooku the force lightning but Anakin? Not if he wanted to die quickly. Anakin was way to powerful and would have boiled his bunny to early on. Palpy knew how powerful Anakin was, he's not that crazy.

 

Exactly, Palpy is not stupid. Its one thing to teach Dooku the force lightning but Anakin? Not if he wanted to die quickly. Anakin was way to powerful and would have boiled his bunny to early on. Palpy knew how powerful Anakin was, he's not that crazy.

He would've had he not been injured. But now he cannot even use the Lightning. He's damaged goods. That's why Palpatine wants Luke in ROTJ.

"The interesting thing about these movies is that they refer back to lots of cinematic influences," McDiarmid explains. "When my face changes in the film, my mind went back to the early silent movie of The Phantom of the Opera with Lon Chaney. In Revenge of the Sith, Anakin makes a Faustian pact with the devil, and I do everything I can to use him as raw material in every sense to become the best apprentice yet. So even when he's horribly savaged from the fight and it's not clear if he'll live, he's reborn as this Frankenstein monster. Sidious then realizes Vader will be an even greater asset because his humanity has been mechanized, which is exactly what happens to people when they are seduced by Fascism."

--Ian McDiramid, Homing Beacon interview, 2005.

"Anakin, as Skywalker, as a human being, was going to be extremely powerful, but he ended up losing his arms and a leg and became partly a robot. So a lot of his ability to use the Force, a lot of his powers, are curbed at this point, because, as a living form, there?s not that much of him left. So his ability to be twice as good as the Emperor disappeared, and now he?s maybe 20 percent less than the Emperor. So that isn?t what the Emperor had in mind. He wanted this really super guy, but that got derailed by Obi-Wan. So he finds that, with Luke, he can get a more primo version if he can turn Luke to the Dark Side. You?ll see, as this goes on, Luke is faced with the same issues and practically the same scenes that Anakin is faced with. Anakin says yes and Luke says no."

?-George Lucas, quoted in J. Windolf, ?Star Wars: The Last Battle,? Vanity Fair, 2005


"He's so overwhelming in that first film, but you get to the point where you say, "Wait a minute, if he's so powerful, why doesn't he run the universe?" He even gets pushed around by the governors! They know the Emperor is the final word, so what happens is the same thing that happens in any corporation: Everybody worries about the top man, they don't worry about his goon. And by the time the Death Star is finished, it gives them the sense that they have a bigger, better suit than Darth Vader. In a standoff between the Death Star and Darth Vader, they have no question about who would win, and it's not this mumbo-jumbo Sith guy. So it's even more tragic, because he's not even an all-powerful bad guy, he's kind of a flunky."

--George Lucas, Rolling Stones Interview 2005.

"At this point, Vader?s plan really, now that he knows he?s his son, is to convince him to come with him. Join the Dark Side and together they?re going to overthrow the Emperor, which is the thematic devices used through the whole movies in terms of the Sith, which is Sith Lords are usually no more than two because if there are three, then two of them will gang up on one to try to become the dominate Sith. Anakin would have been able to do it if he hadn?t been debilitated and now he?s half machine and half man, so he?s lost a lot of the power of the Force, and he?s lost a lot of his ability to be more powerful then the Emperor. But Luke hasn?t. Luke is Vader?s hope. His motives at this point are purely evil. He simply wants to continue on what he was doing before which is get rid of the Emperor and make himself Emperor. He only sees his son as a mechanism for the ambition. His mad lust of power."

--George Lucas, TESB DVD Commentary.


"And when he finds out Luke is his son, his first impulse is to figure out a way of getting him to join him to kill the Emperor. That's what Siths do! He tries it with anybody he thinks might be more powerful, which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who wo

 

" Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be transformed. " If its there, its there. Perhaps Lucas forgot about the basic laws of science. He should have still been as powerful. If that's the case then in Episode II when Dooku cuts off his hand why does he get better and graduate to Jedi Knight? I don't buy it...

 

Maybe with loss of limbs, the midichlorian count goes down. Less blood.

 

exactly right. less organic matter, less midichlorians, and besides, the mechanical limbs don't have the same agility as the flesh ones.

The suit is constricting in a lot of ways.

When just his hand is cut off, that's not a big loss, it doesn't affect him that much. But it does teach him a valuable lesson about getting cocky and he decides to learn from that.

 

This would be a huge plot hole if this was true.

Why would Palpatine create something that would kill him? Surely he knew of the Jedi prophecy.

your logic is the Sith basically created there own Destruction.

 

Limbs has nothing to do with it, neither does blood that's just one way of testing for it, Luke discovered another. He's human, the midi chlorians would be part of his DNA.

 

I hate to busrt everyones bubble but here goes. George Lucas himself has said that Palpatine had nothing to do with Anakin's conception. Thats the bottom line. Skywalker was concieved by the force.

 

This would be a huge plot hole if this was true.

Why would Palpatine create something that would kill him? Surely he knew of the Jedi prophecy.

your logic is the Sith basically created there own Destruction.

I think this is probably true, from a certain point of view. Just as Palpatine manipulated the Senate and even the Jedi to achieve his Empire, so the Force allowed him to create Anakin so that the Force would be brought back into balance. I doubt that Palpatine put much credence in the prophecy.

Moreover: At the behest of my mother, I have been straightening my room. I came across the Topps Galaxy cards. Towards the end of the set, there was a New Visions card (#132 for those keeping score). It is a fairly lousy depiction of teh Emperor with lightning bolts, drawn by Jim Valentino. Why do I bring this up, do you ask? Allow me to quote him from the back of the card:

"The Emperor is a truly fascinating character. An old-line sorcerer in high-tech surroundings. And he raises intriguing questions: is he Luke's grandfather, the first Jedi Knight to fall from grace, like Lucifer? Maybe when George Lucas produces the next trilogy, we'll find out!"

Now, obviously, the Emperor was never a Jedi Knight, nro would he have been the first Jedi knight to fall. However, this is, to the best of my knowledge, the earliest (1994) speculation that the Emperor may be Luke's grandfather. Am I wrong? Do we think Lucas may have taken this as a springboard? I know the final film is not clear that Palpatine created Anakin, but it was certainly in earlier drafts of the script.

 

Actually, the novelization implies that Anakin was created by Darth Plagueis, the former master of Darth Sidious.

And the Prophecy: It's not a "Jedi" Prophecy, but a FORCE PROPHECY. It never says "A Jedi will bring balance to the Force" but "the Chosen One will bring balance to the Force".

Balance is the end of BOTH the Jedi Order and the Sith.

The Jedi operated much like a cult. In the end, Yoda realizes that they were wrong to never change, never grow, never adapt to the galaxy and expecting the galaxy to adapt to them. He realizes the Sith DID adapt. Either way, the lack of attachment, love, or individual freedom (as opposed to Jedi Order dogma) is quite unbalanced.

The Sith, on the other hand, never know when to quit. They seek power, and do not want to surrender it. They keep seeking, and that's the most imbalanced thing about the Sith.

Both sides were the extremes in the Force. Both needed to go for the Force to be balanced again. The prophecy doesn't say "equal" (so it's not about numbers of Jedi/Sith) but "balanced", as in "neither side is tipping the scale in any one direction".

Anakin DOES bring balance to the Force. He destroys the Jedi Order, and then he destroys the Sith. Balance is restored. His son never learns the bad habits of either side, and is free to learn the Force as it was meant to be learned.

 

"I think its possible either Palpatine or Plagueis (more likely) created Anakin. However there really not enough information to go on to make any conclusion"
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It seems that this unresolved "mystery" adds some power to the film that probably isn't obvious during a first viewing (I've seen it once and am mulling over various interpretations in preparation for future viewings). For a trilogy that was rather flawed (although definitely more than salvaged by Ep.3), this element makes it much better.
We're left aware of this possibility that Anakin was created according to Palp's description of life/midi manipulation, or that Palp is birlliantly evil in knowing what to say to lure Anakin. Reminds me of the moment in "Total Recall" when Arnold needs to decide if the guy really has been sent in to interupt the memory he's experiencing b/c something went wrong, or if he's just lying as a way to keep the evil going. Here, we never even see Anakin struggle to figure it out -- we as the audience are left to wonder about it. Very nice.

As for thoughts about Palp's motives and choices if he DID create Anakin, here's my take:
1)He didn't impregnate Shmi. He manipulated the midichlorians and didn't know where they "landed." The force-power of this creation was from the start more powerful and mysterious than his own powers could handle. He would have to use his own force powers to seek out the life that was created. He would have found Anakin no matter what -- he just benefited from the tragic assistance of the Jedi. He probably did have in mind that this creation would become a Jedi so that the betrayal factor would destroy the Order from the inside. But I'd like to think that the midichlorians' choice of Shmi has the mother for this new life-form was beyond Palp's control.

2) He probably figured if he was able to succeed at destroying the Jedi w/Maul or Dooku, then the eventual seduction of Anakin would make him (Palp) even more powerful. It was just a matter of timing and was a can't-lose situation: the only way these other Sith would fail would be because of Anakin and that would simply make him more succeptible to Palp's manipulation.

As for the Prophecy: "It was a lie, Qui-Gon. The Prophecy was a lie. The Chosen One was never meant to do anything. It was all just another system of control."

This idea is definitely a powerful aspect to the evil of the Sith. They clouded the Jedi's minds with an obsession about a prophecy that the Jedi essentially turned into an idol. They were consumed with the idea and that ultimately led to their downfall. This seems to be making a big point about the futility of prophecy -- Yoda comes to learn that "always in motion the future is." Free will lies in the hands of each individual and thus people determine their OWN destinies. This is not only a meaningful moral to glean from the myth of SW, but also parallels the failures of religious institutions in history. In Judaism, the understanding is that Prophecy ENDED with the Bible, probably because the leadership had come to realize how dangerous an idea it is. Add to that the corruption within the leadership that led to the destruction of the Temples (compare to the sacking of the Jedi Temple) and the end of the Priesthood... and you have in the Jedi demise a great morality tale about the corruption of "good" power that mirrors history.

 

Doesn't anyone think the opera looked like sperm in an egg?

Symbolism?




-Z

 

Perhaps Lucas forgot about the basic laws of science.

Dude, this is science fiction fantasy! The laws of physic are of no concern to Mr. Lucas.

 

" Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be transformed. " If its there, its there. Perhaps Lucas forgot about the basic laws of science. He should have still been as powerful. If that's the case then in Episode II when Dooku cuts off his hand why does he get better and graduate to Jedi Knight? I don't buy it...

The energy is there, but the connection to the Force has been dampened quite a bit. He's 20% less now. One loss of limb isn't enough. A loss of four limbs and massive burns, diminishs him quite a bit. It's like the phantom pain syndrome. Vader knows that the Force is there. He can still feel it. But he's aware that there is a difference. It's no longer as strong as a connection as before.

 

Well,Palpatine is theiving little lier, so I bet Plaguis never truly even had that power in the first place. Just another lie.

 

Speaking of Plagueis, what if he was Sifo Dyas? I don't buy into any of the EU LOE stuff, so I am still open to the idea that Sifo Dyas is still an unresolved issue. In ROTS, Palps tells Anakin that Plagueis was killed by his own apprentice during sleep. And yet in ROTS, after we are introduced to the idea of Sifo Dyas in AOTC, we aren't told anything more about this Jedi who died 10 years prior to AOTC. Did Palps kill Sifo Dyas in his sleep?!!

Also, what about Gardulla the Hutt? He owned the Skywalkers before Watto. Did Palps and Sifo know Gardulla? Didn't one of the old databank entries from back in 1999 say that those creatures that Jabba ate during the podrace were gifts from Naboo? Strange indeed if Tatooine is in the Outer Rim and not a member of the Galactic Senate.