Lit So what did the non-Sith/Corporatist Separatists actually want?

Who mentioned nightsisters? I am talking about regular witches, not those oath breakers.

Also, going by Young Jedi Knights so was the nightsisters allied with the Deep Core Imperial Remnant, and then there is the 'sisters that followed Silri into joining the Zann Consortium

 

Yeah, it's hard to get consistency when the creatives barely care about a whole entire side of the war enough to even depict it, and certainly not enough to depict it consistently.

To be fair, though, it was always kind of doomed by the inherent stupidity of AOTC's setup -- it's said to be an idealistic movement of people protesting Republic corruption, but then oh wait it's the evil corporations behind it. Lucas's whole message is so muddled -- the Republic is corrupt because evil megacorporations have too much power, so people start seceding to protest the Republic's corruption, but also the evil megacorporations are seceding from the Republic they have too much control of because they want even more control so they are secretly having people secede in protest of them so that they can rule the people who hate them so much that they're seceding from the government and . . . they hope the people don't notice that the cause they're fighting for is being run (and fought) by the evil megacorporations they're protesting? Lucas's whole idea of the Separatists (which I believe can be summed up in its entirety with the sentence, "They're people who're separating from the Republic . . . because . . . the Sith?" I DON'T KNOW, GEORGE, THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE TELLING ME.) is so vague and halfassed that it's almost impossible to tease it out into a coherent premise.

 

I see the Confederacy as a sort of an analog for Articles of Confederation-era American. All of the star systems are mostly autonomous with a weak central government. The Separatist senate would be the Continental Congress and the Separatist council would be a group of investors. The council would invest in the movement because the possibilities of the unregulated trade. Of course, they don't want to throw their support fully behind the Separatists as to not lose their investments in the Republic. If I remember correctly, the Trade Federation and the InterGalatic Banking Clan were shown to do business with the Republic in TCW.

 

I think the reason why people saw the CIS as 'less' corrupt then the Republic is because they don't know; 1. the corporations have a lot of power within the CIS. 2. They don't fully get how corrupt the corporations are, they see the Republic as uncaring and distant and the CIS as new and a good gamble.

 

To be fair, the Corporate Sector existing actually doesn't make the Confederacy less likely to exist but more likely. We also have the West End Games "Expansion Region" which is an entire section of the galaxy which was originally ruled by corporations before they proceeded to run the place to the ground. We also had Kashkyyk ruled by Czerka Corporation during the Old Republic era. If we really wanted a explanation which made sense, which means it's probably not true, there's this one:

Charles Phipps' Headcanon

The Confederacy is populated by people disgusted with Palpatine's growing power and they form a large independent alliance of worlds without the Republic's corruption. Darth Sidious contacts the heads of various intergalactic commercial entities through Count Dooku who reveals his plans to fake the Clone Wars. They proceed to provide the financial oomph to construct the Confederacy's armies as a Confederacy-within-the-Confederacy. Then when the war was over, they were killed by Anakin because they'd outlived their usefulness.

 

I think the Zeison Sha, whose homeplanet, Yanibar, was located somewhere in the Wild Space*, would be more fitting for what you are suggesting.

* In the moves era, it is possible that that area have been reclassified by the time of the Legacy comic

As long they don't need to work with jedi and get to send their payment home do I think they would not care who or what they worked for.

 

My view on why the Separatists don't make sense is that they're not supposed to. Think about it. Sidious was holding all the cards; the Seps aren't so much a real movement as a manufactured "perfect enemy" for the Republic used to legitimize his power-grab. Though I'll admit this doesn't explain why ordinary people joined them.

 

Why wouldn't they? People hated the Republic and its corruption and Count Dooku was a Jedi a.k.a automatically trustworthy.

 

Which is why they had to make sense on some level.

 

So...

Spoiler: mild TFA / Visual Dictionary spoilers

Does anyone else feel like the new Republic and its reforms, like:
*a new capital being elected every few years
*a weakened Chancellor
*all Senators being democratically-elected
*planets being given more power, having their own starfleets, with the blessing of the Senate
etc.

Are what the non-Sith, non-corporatist Separatists would have wanted, in a successful Confederacy of Independent Systems?

It even says in the VD that some of these reforms were intended to win over the hearts of former Separatists.

While also taking reform ideas from the idealistic loyalists like Padme and Bail too.

 

I'm tempted to say, "Republic = Clinton and Bush, CIS = Trump."

Spoiler

That's an interesting idea. You just might be on to something.

 

Having read all of the same books you guys have, if I were to figure what the Confederation of Independent Systems wants by what we've seen then this is what I've got:

Charlemagne19's CSA thesis

* An end to the Republic's corruption or, at least, their participation in it.

* The group would be an alliance of independent planetary governments rather than a single Federal state. I.e. what's in the name.

* Equality of membership worlds with Palpatine being a Sector Senator while Onderon is representing itself.

* The corporations would be their own private Corporate Sector Authority states without Republic supervision--which is debatable since it's very likely the CSA was aware of Darth Sidious' plan the whole time.

* A smaller, less bureaucratically tied Senate (from what we see of the CIS--it's a much more informal and looser bureaucracy). In practice, of course, the Senate had about as much real authority as Iraq's Senate under Saddam Hussein.

* A robotic military which would presumably provide security which the overstretched Jedi knighthood couldn't match.

* A weakened Head of State just as Palpatine was increasing the powers of the Head of State. In practice, of course, Dooku acted as a dictator followed by Grevious.

In short, the CSA was a dream of a looser more Articles-Of-Confederation-esque union. It was a pipe dream but based on a very functional model.

 

Spoiler

That's what I got from that blurb in the Visual Dictionary. That way, it seems like the New Republic is trying in earnest to correct or at least not repeat the mistakes of both the Empire and the moribund Old Republic.

 

I don't think it's a fair comparison because Trump despite being a corporate exec himself isn't in favor of more power to the corporations. He's protectionist and one of his main talking points ironically has been against big international businesses. If you want a better comparison, there's Ron & Rand Paul and the Libertarian Movement that is very close to what the CIS wanted. Trump on the other hand is a soft populist-nationalist, a lot of his rhetoric is centrist-left leaning economically. He's probably closer to Thracken Sal-Solo, Cal Omas or, to enact Godwin's Law, Sheev. Valorum was basically a Clinton expy, down to an affair with one of his aides. A lot of Sheev's policies echo Bush's since he was one of the inspirations for late-Republic era Sheev. Homeworld Security, etc.

 

Well, the book does say that the capital aspect at least was specifically done to appeal to former Separatist worlds.

 

This was a really good thread, good to resurrect after the new episode of Rebels!

 

It's almost like it only makes sense for the Rebel Alliance to be made up largely of former Separatist worlds.

 

Well they did use a old AAT in one of the Star Wars comics.

 

I think the seps are a mix of planets and species wanting independence, megacorps exploiting such aspirations and seeking to rule the galaxy as a big corporate sector, various pirates, mercenaries,, and other unsavory figures seeking to profit from confict and people who felt politically excluded-perhaps rimmers.​

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I forget I believe it was in the essential guide to warfare-it may have been cut but it talks about people who were thankful that the big corps used droids to repress piracy which was damaging the aforementioned people's colonies and businesses so some people definitely appreciated them.​

 

The vibe I get from the extended (non-movie) material is that a lot of Seppies are the ones who want to be freed of the obnoxious rules and regulations of the Republic... only in many cases, it turns out that there's a very good reason why you shouldn't want them to be free of those rules and regulations. The Zygerrians want the "right" to recreate a slave-based economy after the Jedi stomped on it. Death Watch wants the "right" to overthrow their government because... well, because they think they should be in charge instead. The Balawai want the "right" to exterminate the native population of the planet they've started colonizing. The commerce guilds presumably want the "right" to extort, exploit and otherwise run right over anyone they choose in the pursuit of profit. Etc, etc, etc. Over and over and over you get stories of factions joining the Separatists because, bluntly, they want the right to do whatever they want to whoever they want and resent the Republic's principles for not allowing them to do that.

They're not all like that, but the fact that the commerce guilds are the backbone of the CIS implies pretty strongly that these people, the ones who don't want freedom so much as they resent law and order, are the ones with the real power. (Even before you factor in that there are Sith Lords secretly running the show at the very top).

 

While it may be a long shot, are we honestly sure the corporations who bankrolled the Separatists actually believed in the Separatist cause? Going by the movies alone, it seemed very clear that Nute Gunray knew Palpatine was Darth Sidious and that Count Dooku answered to him. Given all of the corporate heads were aware of Darth Sidious, it seems they were all part of Palpatine's conspiracy to defraud the galaxy and set up his New Order.

Another reason to eliminate him.

In this case, the corporations siding with the Separatists makes a lot more sense as it isn't the corporations defecting from the Republic for their own gain but simply outfitting a revolutionary movement.

It also explains why they have such a privileged position but no government titles. They're the Money MenTM.

 

Gunray knew Sidious was influential in the Senate.

 

Gunray definitely didn't know Sidious was Palpatine. Grievous didn't even know.


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All humans look alike to Grevious.

 

Kaleesh aren't that prejudiced come on.