So what film do you think will screw AOTC out of the VFX Oscar for this year?

I think The Two Towers will get it. If Spider-Man gets it, then the Two Towers will get screwed.

AOTC will not win the award (or any other Oscar) just because Lucas is blackballed in Hollywood. Simple as that.

That "bullet-time" was done in a gap commercial before it was seen in the Matrix.

oops double post

Episode 2 makes plenty of sense without seeing the Original Trilogy. It's only requirement is to see Episode 1, which only makes sense.

I have a friend who has only seen the OT once. He only saw Episode 1 like 2 or 3 times. When we went to see AOTC over the weekend, he had no problem understand what was going on.

I've talked to people who enjoyed the Tolken trilogy, long before the movies were being planned. They say that the film is drastically different than the book. I haven't read the book or seen the movie, so I wouldn't know.

If Lucas had made the prequels without any digital shots, he would have been called stupid. He was inventing new technologies when he started with SW in the 70s, so why shouldn't he embrace new technologies now. Also, I'm pretty sure that GL has said he waited so long to make the prequels because the technologies didn't exist back then to make the movies he had in mind.

SDJ is right. Nothing in the MATRIX wasn't done two years earlier in a GAP commercial. A friend of mine worked on the post production of MATRIX and I asked him over dinner once what the movie was going to be like. His exact words were, "A two hour Gap commercial." Enough said about originality.

And Ezekial, when Peter Jackson does something original on the scale that Lucas has achieved with STAR WARS, you can open your trap. Until then, Jackson is a hack who destroyed those great books by turning them into an endless CGI fest--and bad CGI, at that.

yea I know, its just, I think the digital in the prequels is overkill to the point that they detract from the story

Why do people keep confusing bullet-time with the stupid crap on the GAP commericals? It might look the same, but its NOT the same. Why dont you try watching the documentaries on the Matrix DVD. What moron would call the Matrix a 2 hour gap commerical? Are people really that stupid in this world?


Also, stop b**ching about Lucas never wins anything during the Oscars! Its complete BS! Jesus, you people have taken that angle to the max. Just like the whole black actors crap that happened earlier this year. Hollywood isnt out to get George Lucas. Lucas is not God. TPM didnt win any Oscars because it didnt deserve any. END OF STORY.

EZEKIAL,

And how can you say LOTR is "the benchmark for the perfect adaptation of a book to film" when you admit you haven't read the books? UNREAL!!!

If he did go over to "Theonering.net," he'd notice that they don't take themselves so seriously. There are a lot of LOTR fans that are also Starwars fans, but I guess because they dislike all the LOTR bashing, they stay over there. I am a little surprised at the number of my fellow Starwars fans who refuse to enjoy anything but StarWars. It's not like you own Lucasfilm shares, guys! You can enjoy more than one franchise.


(By the way, do we have a popular nickname, like "trekies," or "ringers?")

The visuals ARE the story.

hey now, on the black actors, I didnt see halle berry's movie, but training day was amazing. denzel washington deserved that award, his performance was truly astounding. he departed from the goodygoody two-shoes that hes always done and did a really convincing evil character. I love that movie, its one of those movies you can just watch forever because its just so good. its only that beautiful mind got more publicity, maybe there is racism that has the media hyping the movie with the white actor, but I'm glad that washington got the award because he deserved it.

<<I've talked to people who enjoyed the Tolken trilogy, long before the movies were being planned. They say that the film is drastically different than the book. I haven't read the book or seen the movie, so I wouldn't know.>>

The differences are not that drastic. There is, of course, more emphasis put on action in the movie than in the book because most people would be bored if there wasn't. And the character of Arwen is put more into the forefront because the book has few women. Some other details were changed, and a big chunk was omitted from the first part of the book, but overall it is pretty faithful to the novel. As faithful as it could have been, IMO, without alienating people who hadn't read the books. And without cutting certain parts of the book out, the movie probably would have been over 5 hours long.

because most movie adaptations of books are either very stale or take huge liberties or are a mere visualization of the book. lol ok I've never completed the book, I'm reading it right now, on page 100 or so, and I say that it is the perfect movie adaptation end of discussion

No offense Ezekial, but you're letting your bias color your assumptions to the point of making clais about how good a movie adaptation LOTR:FOTR was when the Tolkien's grandson (If I remember correctly) came out publicly and said film was not the best medium for LOTR, after he saw the film.

In terms of the cultural impact of the LOTR films, it's not even close to what Star Wars has done as a franchise. As a book, LOTR is influencial. As films, well, they are just a fantasy film.

<<<<I've talked to people who enjoyed the Tolken trilogy, long before the movies were being planned. They say that the film is drastically different than the book. I haven't read the book or seen the movie, so I wouldn't know>>>>



The changes weren't that bad. I love the books as I love the movie. Fellowship is big enough to make a 5 or 6 hour movie. The changes made were great and understandable in my mind. Perfect on Mr. Jackson's part.

"Most movies are either very stale or take huge liberties or are mere visualizations"


Wow, as long as you're not generalizing. Obviously, you have no idea that there is a world of difference between an audience's reaction to READING a story and SEEING a story. If you're looking for truly great adaptation of books, check these out:

THE MALTESE FALCON, TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD, 2001, LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, TREASURE OF SIERRA MADRE, RAGING BULL, AGE OF INNOCENCE, REMAINS OF THE DAY...oh, hell, you get the point.

They offer a pretty wide variety of what constitutes a great adaptation of a book, how its undefinable and varied.

But we're discussing effects, arent't we?

How did this thread turn into a discussion about black actors? By the way, Halle Berry isn't black; her mother is white.

Back to what the thread was about. You have to realize that The Matrix's production schedule before you say it's FX are old. The word spread on what the matrix guys were doing, and it was used ad nauseum from that point on, but the matrix deserved it, because it wasn't just a gimmicky effect. It clearly showed that these people could do anything they wanted at incredibly fast speeds within the digital world.

I don't get why people considered it a gimmic. Undoubtably, there will be people next year who'll think The Matrix FX techniques are old hat now, but the Wachowski brothers don't care about FX awards. They care about creating a mind-bending present day mythos, and so far they're succeeding.

dexter,
How the hell do you know what the impact of Lord of the Rings has been yet? It only came out in December. Its now the #10 top grossing movie of all time in USA. Its also #5 Worldwide.

Just wait until Return of the King is released. Then youll see just how damn big LOTR is.

<<<Wachowski brothers don't care about FX awards. They care about creating a mind-bending present day mythos, and so far they're succeeding.>>>


This is so true. The staircase fight in Matrix Reloaded is going to be amazing.

and there are some terrible adaptions such as harry potter or one of the anne rice vampire series (this is from a friend) where they completely change around the plot and do a terrible job introducing the characters. and who cares if tolkiens relative said this or that? does he have more authority than we do just because he's related to him? only tolkien himself would have absolute judgement on this, only hes dead.

and halle barry is black in America's terms. she was hailed as the first black woman to win the award so yes shes black.

Perfect on Mr. Jackson's part.

The staircase fight in Matrix Reloaded is going to be amazing.

And some people accuse SW fans of blindly liking the movies?

People who are new to the Matrix and LOTR movies are looking forward to the sequels and hoping for the best because the first movie turned out so excellent. We know that the makers know what they're doing.


Thats why I dont understand why so many got upset from people bashing AOTC before it was released. What the hell else could we think after the utter trash TPM turned out to be? We here expecting the worse. I'm glad AOTC turned out to be a lot better than Episode, but thats not saying much. Hayden's acting in his slaughter confession, and Ewan are the only two reasons from Episode 2 that are making me look forward to Episode 3.

I haven't bothered to read all posts here, so my apologies if this has been mentioned before.

The actual Academy award is voted on by all members of the Academy, most of them not VFX people -- subjective to say the least. Most VFX guys I know consider the nomination to be almost as big (if not bigger) an honor because it comes from their peers -- the annual VFX "bakeoff" where all the potential films are narrowed down to the final nominees, is where the major competition lies. I'd venture to say that any film that gets past the bakeoff onto the Academy ballots is worthy of a win, and then the award goes to the film with the greatest buzz, be it critical, financial, etc.

In '99, Matrix had the buzz. Plain and simple. In 2000, Gladiator was it (personally I felt that either Hollow Man or Perfect Storm were more worthy). Acknowledge the consider effort and skill that gets put into these films, otherwise it comes off as sour grapes.

ILM has a great legacy behind them (and in front of them as well, I'm sure), and if they get beaten out this year, accept it and move on. They will certainly garner more wins in the future.

AOTC has the benefit (and disadvantage) of having practically each shot be an FX shot. The upside of this (from a nomination standpoint) is that there's plenty of room for awe at the total achievement ILM did. The downside is there are so many shots there's bound to be some that are less good than others -- and I felt there were a couple that were downright bad. Now, you could argue (and reasonably) that this is true of every VFX-heavy film, but there are simply so many shots in AOTC that the problem/advantage is compounded. Whether this will work out to ILM's benefit or not remains to be seen.

(btw, I think the title of this thread is subjective and ridiculous in the extreme )

OK... Here's one LotR:the book fan's opinion about FotR, in case anyone cares.

The changes may not look drastic at first, but, as far as I remember, in addition to
screwing up the timeline in the beginning, and creating a plot hole that does not exist in the book (as in: the no. of the Nazgul on Amon Sul)

completely changing the hobbits' relationships (Merry and Pippin: from caring friends to random attachments to the party)

changing the Saruman/Sauron relation (and, on a side note, adding the "You must join with me" line, which looked like an obvious ESB ripoff... and now a nice ESB/AotC parallel is wasted, because most people remember the line from FotR and AotC, but that's me as SW fan speaking)

taking out some of the funniest parts of the book (Gimli having a crush on Galadriel) and changing this into "Nobody tosses a dwarf" Why?

making a Ric Olie out of Boromir ("They have a cave troll!" No, really?)

the film has a COMPLETELY different ending than the book... and one that makes less sense, at that.


In other words, the book is well... butchered.

And the opening battle was to me boring. Couldn't really see what happened. Was it supposed to move that fast and be that blurry, or was that simply due to reluctance to let the viewer see too many underdone details? Or was it invitation to buy the DVD?


Back from venting. As usually... if the critics liked it, it's their opinion. If critics didn't like AotC, it's their opinion. I didn't like FotR and liked AotC, that's the only opinion that counts to me. And yes, I think that TTT will take the Oscar. If for no other reason than the one that it will be fresh in people's memories in February/March, and AotC won't.

The ending of the book? Lord of the Rings is not three seperate books. Its one giant story. You turn the page to The Two Towers and it directly continues.

The Fellowship movie was fantastic. The ending was also an excellent job. Setting the viewers up for things to come. You said you read the books? You honestly believe the movie could end the way the book ended? Are you on drugs? Yes, let Frodo and Sam leave. And at the very beginning of the next movie... show Boromir's death scene. Yeah, that would great!