So what film do you think will screw AOTC out of the VFX Oscar for this year?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by King of all Jedi, May 29, 2002.

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  1. Skoal2525 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    I think the winner will be Minority Report. It's a Spielberg film with Tom Cruise and the effects are done by ILM. I don't know how Hollywood can resist. The effects in Spider-Man were terrible.
  2. Tar-Jinn Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2001
    star 1
    Are you on drugs?
    I truly thank you for not insulting my sobriety.

    Yes, I do know that LotR is one book.

    Yes, I do know that Boromir's death gave yet another cool fight at the end... OK, I retract this before I give you a way to insult me further. I DO understand the reason for moving Boromir's death. (Especially since LotR is one book.)

    What I had a gripe with was that instead of having Sam and Frodo escape away from the party, unnoticed by all, we have this really unnecessary Frodo-Aragorn conversation, and then, Legolas, Gimli and Aragorn almost merrily waving Frodo and Sam away. Which, meaning they leave them when the true danger starts, basically annuls every reason for setting out with a whole fellowship. OK? Not editing choices. Plot choices.
  3. Darth_Xero Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2001
    star 1
    Before I start I'll let you know that I'm a huge science fiction movie fan first and foremost. Secondly, Star Wars is my favorite sci-fi movie series ever. I love SW very much but I'm not bias to it. I can easily enjoy other movies just the same if they're good. I can say with complete honesty that movies like The Matrix, Spiderman and LotR were all great in their own ways. Does that make me a traitor? Nope. It just means that I'll be enjoying myself more at the movie than most SW and LotR fans. Guess what guys? We can eat our cake and eat it too, don?t you know? And boy does this cake taste sooo very good. Yuuum. ;)

    Anyways, here's my breakdown on the effects stuff I think will be noticed in 2002.

    1. Attack of the Clones. It will be nominated. Will it win? Probably not. Like people have said, many of the Academy members are bias against SW and Lucas. Do I think it deserves it? HELL YA! The ending battle it's self would be enough. Not only did they have thousands of droids, clones, Jedi, Ships and Geonasians battling it out, it took place in bright sunlight! That's pretty gutsy considering a lot of the characters were CGI. And we all know that CG does not always look real in intense light, but ILM pulled it off brilliantly. And to those that say AotC is mostly CG, take a look at the latest "making of documentary" from the OS and you'll see that a lot of older techniques are still being used, for example the execution arena was not CGI it was a model. Sometimes you think your seeing CG when in fact it is a real life object. ILM is smarter than you think, don't assume to think that every effect in the film is CG. ;)

    2. Spiderman. Some people here trashed Spidey because it had no innovations and some of the effect shots were pretty bad. I will agree that at certain points in the film the CG was very obvious specially the scene were Peter is climbing a wall with his first Spidey costume. The CG in that scene looked very cartoony and really fake. But the movie does have alot of great moments were the effects worked magnificently. As for innovations Spidey most certainly did have some. In scenes when Spidey is swinging through the city, most of the buidings in those scenes, believe it or not, are in fact CGI! Amazing work! And because of that innovation Spidey has a chance.

    3. Two Towers. I have not yet read the book so I don't know what's involved but if it's in a bigger scale than AotC then this could be a real competitor. Although I feel that a lot of the "FotR" CG shots were intentionally blurred and quickly cut because Weta, Peter Jackson?s special effects company, didn't have the level of talent to produce realistic specially effects the way ILM has. Also alot of the CG stuff was shot in dark areas, easily concealing the CG. CG looks incredibly real in lowly lit areas as apposed to brightly lit ones where things are more obvious. But if the can do manage to create stuff on the level of the "Balrog" and "The Alliance of Men and Elves" than "TT" will be a great contender.

    Others films that have a chance are Minority Report, Men In Black II, The New Harry Potter and Reign of Fire.

    If I had to pick one now, it would definitely be Aotc, by far. It took ILM, the best in the biz, 2 years to create the effects for this movie. Not only that visually it is a sight to behold. Of all the Star Wars film this one is the most beautiful visually, and that?s saying a lot considering Star Wars is the panicle of movie special effects. This one has to win. And if it doesn't, we'll know for sure that the Academy are anti Lucas.
  4. bed_speling Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2002
    star 1

    This one has to win. And if it doesn't, we'll know for sure that the Academy are anti Lucas.

    Amen to that, Darth_Xero. Couldn't have said it better myself.

  5. denseyjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2002
    star 4
    Sadly I don't think ILM will win the special effects oscar this year with AOTC or any other film. In fact the last time ILM won that award was 1995 for Forrest Gump. And we have seen mediocre visual effects film beating the ILM ones. Example Gladiator was a good film but all its effects were done hugely better one year before by TPM.

    By the other hand the hate sentiment of the academy is very interesting because most of the people who vote in this categories were ILM visual effects supervisors and even the new ones from the new effects companies were ILM employees as well.

    So expect Spiderman to win.
  6. dijares Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 1
    Well, episode I was up against The Matrix, which did have superior FX in it. But, this year, however, there is no Matrix, so . . . I think AotC has a better shot. I thought the FX were outstanding. I loved the way the clones, when doing face movements, had differentiations (is that a word?) between each different person.

    The only thing is, and we all know this, is the academy is a bunch of political b.s. It's all about who gives the best - well, you know what. I think that if AotC doesn't win - even when up against Spidey, MIB and LOTR - then we should all boycott the academy.

    I mean, really, if AotC doesn't win, then maybe it should go to Scooby Doo or Austin Powers. Sheesh.
  7. Telemachos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 2
    How exactly do you boycott the Academy?
  8. Whorton99 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2001
    I've seen a few people calim the Matrix had superior effects to TPM. If you think the Matrix has "cooler" effects than TPM, fine, but the effects Oscar is a technical award, not a coolest award, and TPM successfully broke a lot of new ground while the Matrix did not.

    First an foremost, TPM was the first film to truly deliver on the promise of a digital backlot - set pieces were used sparingly and entire worlds were realized through CG for the vast majority of the film.

    Secondly, TPM had a completely CG character with screen time equaling that of any main character.

    Bullet Time in the Matrix was cool indeed, but it used well established technology seen previously in a 1995 video by the Rolling Stones and in countless GAP ads. The effect is actually dated back to the early 1980s.

    The CG in the Matrix served it's purpose, but creating dark metallic ships in dark environments is not a terribly difficult endeavor for any effects studio to pull off.
  9. desann Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 1
    I think the reason the matrix won was that the effects it had were more "groundbreaking". It was something new, and since the guys at the oscars are always exposed to the work of the people at ILM, they probably said "we've seen that done before, let's give the award to the matrix instead".

    I dont think it will be TTT since it's been done just the year before so it's more or less on the same "it's been done before" level as AOTC, same goes for MIB II. Spiderman's effects were a bit different (for me at least, im barely the expert on these things :p) and even if it wasn't as well polished as the effects in the other movies, my money is on spider man :)

    edit: oh wait, i didn't read the previous post, hehe sorry, i wan't aware that the "bullet time" effect was done before.. maybe it won because it's the first time they used it in a movie?
  10. entfirst Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2002
    star 3
    AOTC will deserve to win. Although last year Fellowship did deserve its win.

    I think that the people who say the Academy hate GL and ILM are quite right. They screwed him for TPM and they will probably screw him for this. The clone troopers alone deserve that OSCAR. Christ, it took me my 2nd viewing to realise that most were CGI, and only after reading it here did I find out that they were all bloddy CGI.

    But the Academy are gimps, so something else will win.
  11. Whorton99 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2001
    desann, how were the effects of the Matrix "groundbreaking?" See my previous post for my views on the matter.
  12. VictorC88 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2001
    The effects for the Matrix were innovative because unlike the Gap ads, the subjects were still moving while being rotated and panned.
  13. AttackoftheCorn Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 2
    I think the bullet-time was actually used in Blade before the Matrix.

    Nevertheless, it was the WAY it was used in the Matrix that made it so cool. The effects fit in well with, and enhanced, the story.

    Comparing FOTR to AOTC or Matrix is kinda hard, considering their environments. Still, the effects in FOTR were well done. Also, I thought the books were boring and incomprehensible, whereas the movie was very good.

    In AOTC, as well as TPM, the visual effects were outstanding, whether it was the podrace/Coruscant chase, the battle droids, the lightsaber duels, etc. But I am a fan of CGI, and am for anything that enhances visual effects. In other words, I am not a film purist, as is a close friend of mine who works in the film industry and prefers the old style of visual effects. To each his own.

    I know its rare around here, but can someone be a fan of Star Wars and LOTR and the Matrix? Instead of a three year wait for another film, there is more to look forward to.
  14. JBFett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2002
    star 4
    I agree, cool effects, yes..the Matrix had some..but it was not groundbreaking as people would think. The 360 rotation effect was used in Enemy of the State as well, people tend to overlook that when they have an agenda, which the academy has. Ever since TPM lost I cannot take the academy seriously at all. Giving Gladiator an effects award was laughable. Giving LOTR an award over Peal Harbor was laughable. the Academy itself said, the best effects are the ones that we cant tell are effects. Well, Pearl Harbor looked REAL....what else do you want.

    On top of that, the seismic charges were a rediculously incredible sound, as was the whole mix for the movie. Sound Editing it should win, but will be robbed by Spiderman for no reason except politics. ILM NEEDS to get an award. Its enough bull$hit already. too much politics is making the academy look stupid. They give oscars out like candy (halley Barrie?? are you kidding me???)

    I boycott the oscars ever since 99. I dont watch them. I dont care what happens in them. Talking about them makes me angry. WHen peoeple tease me why TPM didnt win FX I am forced to explain the whole story how they dislike lucas, which they dont buy and see as an excuse from me to defend my movie, and it drives me crazy.

    So much more I could say, but I am getting too worked up!!! [face_devil]
  15. desann Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 1
    whorton: yep, i just read it, like i said, i didnt realize that they were done before, there aren't any gap ads here on the other side of the pacific ocean :p sorry bout that.. but still maybe the guys the the oscars were like me and didn't know bout the gap ads
  16. Rupert_Pupkin Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2002
    star 3
    I honestly believe that The Two Towers will win. Gollum is looking fantastic. Also, the huge Battle of Helm's Deep will put AOTC's Jedi Arena battle to shame.
  17. VictorC88 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2001
    How do you know that Gollum looks fantastic? Are there pictures up somewhere?
  18. desann Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 1
    even if i liked the movie, i really hope spiderman doesn't win, hehe.. im hoping the guys at the oscars don't hate GL and ILM THAT much :)

    it's nice to know there are movies like the two towers and return of the king to make waiting for episode 3 much easier, hehe :)
  19. JBFett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2002
    star 4
    I dont think so since its in the States.

    Anyhow....I saw LOTR, and personally, I dont see at all why people think those effects are so good. They take me RIGHT OUT of the movie. The visuals did nothing at all for me and I thought they were actually quite awful. All the guys I saw it with were in total agreement, and these guys know their stuff. To me it just looked....bad. I cant think of a better word. Like TV movie effects. Dinotopia effects. and it WON over Pearl Harbor AND AI. If I worked at ILM, that to me would feel like a kick in the balls.

    Lets think of this rationally. They slap LOTR with 13 oscar nods. Every critic likes it, and their fans, so if they dont give it the nods, which the studio has probably helped to buy before the movie came out, it will look poorly on the academy. The same way if they dont nominate SW for the 3 effects its known for, sound, SE and VFX, people know something fishy is up.

    It loses Best supporting actor, which i thought wouldve won (wouldve and shouldve are different words) lost director, all the biggies....but won editing for some reason unbeknownst to me (3 hours to tell THAT story - WOW!!!!) so they give it some awards that it COULD win, not deserves, COULD WIN. therefore they hit it with VFX.
    Even though it is quite obviously the inferior of Pearl and AI. Hell, one scene in Pearl puts the whole Weta effort to shame. - but hey...no one liked Pearl so who is going to bitch.

    Think about it, and this helps show the agenda the adademy has, and how they play the political game.

    oh yah...I dont buy anything in LOTR coming close to TPM quality, It doesnt. not the new one, not anyone. ILM is just years ahead of them. Its like comparing ILM's worst work (mummy returns) to its best (SW)
  20. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    I could see Spider-Man getting it - it had great effects. New York was modeled fantastically (better than Godzillia for a comparison), and Spider-Man in the suit was the best looking "human" I've seen modeled yet. Of course, a smooth form is much easier to create than a human with clothing(clonetroopers and Spider-Man in constume as compared to Anakin on various beasts and Peter running across buildings) due to our eyes not being fooled by "fake" people. The only CG that looks "real" is stuff that was created completely from imagination (Episode 2 aliens/Balrog).

    Of course, most of the Academy knows crap about CG and effects, so who knows?
  21. Lord_Gage Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    For FotR to get anything, it would have to do something better than a one model mob chasing after painfully noticable cgi characters in a hall that is so dark that you can't see any details in the distance.

    What I mean by that is, when they made all the orcs run after them, they were all 1 model set at different animation timings. (Lion King, Jurassic Park, TPM's bloodless battle etc) as for the short stuff, I would love to see Froto pull off anything that Yoda did. All the effects are on a small scale as well. FotR has a wall of water, AotC has Kamino ^_^

    Sorry, but compairing the work done in AotC to FotR is like compairing the Resident Evil remake to the origional Resident Evil.
  22. augusto Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 4
    >> clonetroopers and Spider-Man in constume as compared to Anakin on various beasts and Peter running across buildings

    Anakin was not CG when riding those animals, he was filmed and superimposed on it, that's why it looked odd that way.

    Legolas was CG when riding the Troll, it was pretty obvious too.

    Spider-Man's CG battles were horrible, and I'm one of the people who love CG work. But golly, Spidey jumping around and fighting street thughs could be made with wiring, that kind of looke pretty bad.
  23. Rupert_Pupkin Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2002
    star 3
    <<but won editing for some reason unbeknownst to me (3 hours to tell THAT story - WOW!!!!)>>.

    I take it you never read the books. The Fellowship of the Ring book is big enough to make a 4 or 5 hour movie! The editing job was fantastic. They made the movie flow perfectly.

    Lucas should learn what the hell Peter Jackson did. Lucas seriously needs help in the editing department. TPM and AOTC are proof of this.
  24. augusto Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 4
    Oh great, here comes the Lucas vs Jackson non-sense in the Star Wars forum. Isn't that great ?

    Yeah, Lucas doesn't know how to make movies pal, that's why Star Wars is such a failure. Yeah.

    Maybe Lucas learn from him the cool "slow-mo" effect when we see the Predator, I mean, the Super-Orc towards the end of the movie. Can you imagine that ? Darth Maul approaches our heoroes in slow motino. Cool ! Special Edition of ANH ! Darth Vader appears and his cape flows in slow-mo too. WOW ! :)
  25. JBFett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2002
    star 4
    I shouldnt need to read a book to enjoy a movie and I am sick of being told that. The movie didnt keep my interest, and thats what a movie is supposed to do. ITS A MOVIE. if i cared about the book I wouldve read it, but I saw the movie and it still dragged a good hour and a bit too long.

    Sure, lucas should learn something from Jackson, thats why he wipes his @$$ with 3 billion dollars.

    I hated LOTR more than any movie i have ever seen, and I am happy Lucas doesnt use anything at all similar to that movie.
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