So what film do you think will screw AOTC out of the VFX Oscar for this year?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by King of all Jedi, May 29, 2002.

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  1. Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2001
    star 4
    Please do not insult the visual technology and electronic industry by saying Bullet time was invented in gap ads.

    Are you kidding me??? This was not a photogrpahic image that was being digitized and frozen and merely spinning around it with a mouse.

    There is no comparison. People diss the Matrix FX because it is a knee-jerk reaction on here to spew hate anytime the word MATRIX is mentioned on here.

    The FX in the Matrix were incredible and obviously groundbreaking. Blade? The matrix did not copy Blade's effects. And if you saw Blade II you'd know that almost every effect, costume and fight move was a complete rip-off of the Matrix. I was waiting for Snipes to do the back bend move to complete the cycle.
    And I am sure you all saw Spider man do it. Twice.

    The effects in TPM were great too, but they were very different. The greatness of TPM was in its background. For the Matrix it was in the foregroud. Jar Jar looked incredibly fake. Watto looked good. Maul being cut in half, falling down the reactor shaft looked horrendous. The ships looked cool. But it comes down to the purpose of effects. If they are making things look pretty that's great. but if they are integrated into the story and blow the audience away and are subsequently copied by tons of movies, ads and TV shows, you cannot be surprised if they win an Oscar.
  2. Jedi Daniel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2000
    star 5
    I think Spider-Man has the worst Special Effects this year. They look so fake.
  3. JBFett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2002
    star 4
    Enemy of the State used the effect....this forum does not spew matrix hate. I loved the matrix....it didnt deserve the award though. Jar Jar did not look fake, he looked inconsistent. Sometimes he was perfect, other times he wasnt. Watto was perfect, Maul being split was 3 seconds and nothing. everything else was REVOLUTIONARY!!! DIGITAL BACKLOT!!! FIRST MOVIE TO DO IT!!!! LETS SAY THIS ALL TOGETHER AND THEN PONDER WHO SHOULDVE WON!
  4. JBFett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2002
    star 4
    on that note I am getting lunch....and Daniel I agree.....definately fake looking the whole way through, and not just spidey, but a few GG shots as well.
  5. Whorton99 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2001
    Rupert_Pupkin, the editing didn't condense FOTR to 3 hours, the screenplay did.

    "Lucas seriously needs help in the editing department. TPM and AOTC are proof of this."

    How about some specific examples instead of a blanket statement? That way we might believe your opinion was informed. Saying a film was too long or too boring doesn't tell us what editing flaws would fix your perceived problems.
  6. Telemachos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 2
    FWIW, I know some folks at ILM who dug FOTR a lot (and the FX they did).

    As I said earlier, the final voting is done by people without an FX background (like most of us here). So the vote may indeed by slanted towards the film that they felt was better overall.

    Note that there is NO specific definition of how to apply the words "best visual effects" towards a film -- it's an entirely subjective decision and one that each person will make differently. Some will vote on the thing that wowed them the most, some may look at how the FX serve the story, etc.

    The Academy is made up of 5700+ members from every conceivable filmmaking background -- they are NOT a consolidated unit that votes out of a general hatred of Lucas or ILM. A great many of them probably have worked for one or the other at some point in the past.
  7. Darth Euro Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 1999
    star 4
    "Rupert_Pupkin, the editing didn't condense FOTR to 3 hours, the screenplay did. "

    Of course it did. They shot a lot of scenes that were cut out of the final theatrical cut. Or are you suggesting that a new screenplay was writted for thr 4-hr cut that is coming out on DVD in nov/dec?
  8. dijares Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 1
    Wow, I guess I really started it with bringing up The Matrix, huh? I still remember sitting there stunned when SW didn't get that award.

    How to boycott The Academy. Don't watch, send emails. I dunno. I'm sick to death of them anyway.

    But the matrix did have some groundbreaking FX, as was demonstrated with the behind-the-scenes demonstrations.

    This year, however, I believe that it's AOTC all the way!

    :)
  9. Whorton99 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2001
    "They shot a lot of scenes that were cut out of the final theatrical cut. Or are you suggesting that a new screenplay was writted for thr 4-hr cut that is coming out on DVD in nov/dec?"

    Of course they shot a lot that wasn't in the final cut - this is true for almost all films. What I wrote was in response to a comment above suggesting that editing was primarily responsible for condensing the book. However, the main paring down of the book was down during the writing of the screenplay (e.g. The elimination of Tom Bombadil, cutting all songs/poems, etc.).
  10. WickedFierce Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 1
    They will get screwed? They won't win because some of the effects were really bad.

    You people don't remember Anakin on the speedbike going to the Tusken Raiders? Or Dooku at the end on the same thing. It looks like a person sitting on a bike with a background added. Nothing "special" about that. They barely improved from RotJ when it comes to those [face_plain] They won't win because they didn't come correct.
  11. Nifft-the-Lean Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    'the editing didn't condense FOTR to 3 hours, the screenplay did.'

    That's not quite true, Whorton99. If they had just gone with what was in the screenplay, the movie would have been quite a bit longer than three hours. Some very painful choices were made in the editing room to get that thing under the three hour mark.

    -edit: I see you have elaborated on your earlier comment, Whorton99. I see what you're saying. Still, the film's particular shape (heavy on plot, light on character) was formed in the editing room. The theatrical release is different from PJ's intended vision, due to editing decisions made out of a desire to come in under three hours.

    BTW, a version of FOTR that is closer to what Peter Jackson wanted all along will be released in November on DVD. It'll add 30 extra minutes of running time, with most of the new stuff emphasizing character development (something the theatrical cut is short on, imo).

    Now, I'd just like to make a couple quick comments on some things Tar-Jinn said.

    'taking out some of the funniest parts of the book (Gimli having a crush on Galadriel) and changing this into "Nobody tosses a dwarf" Why?'

    First, I've always found Gimli's crush to be touching in a serious way, rather than 'ha ha' funny. I seriously doubt Tolkien intended it for laughs, either. IMHO.

    Second, the Gimli crush scenes WERE scripted and shot by Peter Jackson. It's just more cool stuff that ended up on the cutting room floor in New Line's dubious bid to appease the MTV Generation ;). I've heard it'll be restored in the November DVD, thank goodness.

    'making a Ric Olie out of Boromir ("They have a cave troll!" No, really?)'

    This is just wrong. Boromir is not stating the obvious. He's the one guy who stuck his head outside the door, the one guy who saw exactly what was approaching. As such, he's passing along information that is not known by the rest of the Fellowship.

    Right. On topic: ILM, of course, did a fantastic job on AOTC, and certainly would be worthy of the Oscar. But there's also a ton of CGI work in TTT (Ents, Wargs, Gollum, armies clashing, etc.), and if WETA can pull it off, they might just end up with the statue. That December release date sure doesn't hurt their chances! ;)
  12. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    My guess for the Visual Effects Nominations:

    Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers
    Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones
    Men in Black II
    Minority Report



    If they're smart they'll exclude Spider-Man. I liked Spider-Man, but the effects are not anywhere near up to par with AOTC's. And from the trailers I've seen of Minority Report and Men in Black II, they look even better.

    Also, lets not forget Harry Potter. Unless I'm mistaken, the effects team for the first HP were fired and ILM was hired. If that's true, HP might make it to that catagory as well.


    Anyway, without a doubt AOTC deserves it, but it will lose it to LOTR, since EVERYODY loves LOTR [face_plain]



    ST
  13. Jedi knight Pozzi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2000
    star 6
    Has anyone seen the four minutes shown from the end of FOTR that was available? If so, how did it look?
  14. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Anyway, without a doubt AOTC deserves it, but it will lose it to LOTR, since EVERYODY loves LOTR.

    I don't.
  15. prof_frink Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 1999
    star 3
    way back on the first page of this thread but

    LOTR- that movie is just plain perfect. the SFX is transparent, you dont notice them unless you look

    has got to be the funniest this I've read in a while! You don't notice the unless you LOOK! AHA! So that's the trick - watch the movie while LOOKING AWAY!

    Has anyone seen the four minutes shown from the end of FOTR that was available? If so, how did it look?

    I saw the crappy bootleg version, and to be quite honest - it looks just like the last one - I mean - how different can they look, they were all shot at the same time...
  16. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    You do know that was sarcasm, right? :D



    ST
  17. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    ((Anakin was not CG when riding those animals, he was filmed and superimposed on it, that's why it looked odd that way.))

    Superimposition using computers is still CG. And besides, I'm almost sure that Anakin is rendered on the doodoo bugs. Do you have a source that says that he isn't? Is it in the technical books or something I may have missed - because I sure don't see it? If not, I'm going with my technical experience - his movements are far too motion tweenish in that scene.
  18. augusto Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 4
    >> Superimposition using computers is still CG.

    Not really, then you will say that the whole movie (or 97%) is computer generated, as almost every scene in the movie has elements that are super imposed.

    What I meant is the person itself is Anakin, superimposed on the animal and they tried to fit him in there, which is why it looks "jerky" and bad.

    Legolas on the troll is obviously a computer model of the character, and Spider-Man a much obvious one in most of his action scenes.
  19. DarthScully Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 4
    i think it'll boil down to AOTC vs TTT (The Two Towers). Spidey was good, but it will be all about the sagas and how they were realized onscreen that will be the theme for the Oscars.

    i want to see Gollum and Helm's Deep first before i can even guess who would win. the Arena Battle was visually impressive and CG Yoda was perfect in AOTC. lets see how Helm's Deep and Gollum stack up against those.
  20. Telemachos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 2
    Only three films get nominated in the VFX category.

    How to boycott The Academy. Don't watch, send emails. I dunno. I'm sick to death of them anyway.

    The Academy is made up of people who worked on Star Wars as well. This is ridiculous -- it's not like boycotting a studio. The Academy is comprised of the artists and craftsman that work on film. Writers, editors, directors, assistant directors, makeup guys, composer, VFX artists, producers, etc -- you name it.

    Might as well quit watching any film that's ever made, unless it has the LucasFilm stamp on it. Even then, you're muddying the waters because of the ILM artists who are ILM members.

    Get over it. For a film to get into the position of being nominated, it's passed the gauntlet test of its peers and is worthy of a win. No film, Star Wars or otherwise, ROBS or STEALS a VFX Oscar from another.
  21. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    augusto:

    Typical bluescreening doesn't really fall under the Computer graphic or Computer generated image category. I know what you're saying, but I'm just being overly technical.

    I still disagree - I think Anakin is computer modeled there, I just looked at it, and his movements definitely look motion tweened. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
  22. DarthScully Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 4
    abmccray,

    i remember a video clip from Celebrations 2 that they showed how they did the "Anakin jumping onto the reek" scene. they had Hayden approach a prop (exactly the way we saw on film) then Hayden "jumped" in his place. then the ILM folks layered that scene of Hayden jumping in midair then moved it onto the prop (which will be the Reek), so it really looked like Anakin jumped onto the Reeks back.
  23. MINI_YODA Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2002
    star 2
    here's a scary thought.... what if AOTC isn't even nominated!
  24. abmccray Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 2
    Darth Scully:

    I was referring to the Naboo Doo Doo monster scene, not The Reek. Anakin looks pasted on The Reek as opposed to rendered.
  25. Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    star 4
    The Academy should give ILM a special Oscar for their work on Yoda alone.

    A little statue like the one they gave Judy Garland for "Oz" or Walt Disney for "Snow White".

    :D

    -Otis
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