So, what is the general Canadian opinion of the USA?

Discussion in 'Canada General' started by jedi_master_ousley, Aug 27, 2003.

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  1. Sar-Tamber-lac Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 5
    I realize that Canada isn't as important to the US as the US is to Canada, but it seems reasonable that Americans should know a little about Canada.

    Now, please don't go thinking that. Canada is very important to the United States. We would almost fall apart without your support and help. One would almost indeed fall apart without the other.

    I've often thought about the fact that Americans don't know much about Canada, and I think I've reached this opinion as to why...

    Canada is very young. Granted, so is the United States. However, the United States has much more history and action behind it then does Canada. In one year, we cannot get through everything we need to about American history as indepth as we would like. We do touch on Canadian history, but it's not as forefront as our own, and so people tend to not remember it, basically because most Americans will never travel beyond the borders of our country anyways. There is much more to learn about American history than Canadian. And maybe that's why y'all have the time to focus in on American history as well as your own, whereas we do not.

    This is not to justify or excuse the ignorance of some Americans. However, I know a lot of Canadians who couldn't even tell me where Florida or Minnesota are on an American map. Remember, it works both ways.
  2. Jymm_Roquand Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2002
    star 4
    I am not sure your statement that Canada has less history then the United States does is entirely accurate. Granted we do not gloat about our history and such as much as the US does, but remember that the events in this land began about the same time as they did in the US. Heck the landing of the vikings in Newfoundland would suggest that Canada may have some more history then the US. True we have less blood but never-the-less our history spans just as far and just as deep as the United states...

    However I am glad to see and AMerican so appreciative of the role Canada plays supporting the US and viceversa.
  3. Sar-Tamber-lac Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 5
    However I am glad to see and AMerican so appreciative of the role Canada plays supporting the US and viceversa.

    Figured if I'm gonna live out my days in Canada, I'd better get on y'alls good side. ;)

    Hehe...just kidding. I do love Canada, and I understand what an important role it plays in the everyday survival of the United States.

    I didn't mean to say that Canada really doesn't have a history. However, I do believe that more things have taken place and are more well-known and studied in American history than what is known about or studied in Canadian history. Between the Vikings and the Inuits, y'all have a history that's all your own. But there's more historical action in how America came to freedom, and the events before and after, then there are in Canadian history. Guess that's what y'all get for being passive. ;) (please don't take offense to that...I'm just trying to keep things light)
  4. sw-starwarsfreakness Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2003
    star 4
    I realize that Canada isn't as important to the US as the US is to Canada, but it seems reasonable that Americans should know a little about Canada.

    US is important to us? Oh gees.. don't get me started. The USA depends on Canada.. and I'd say much more than we depened on the US.

    And it's not reasonable the Americans know little about canada.. that's just ignorant.
  5. AT-ST_DRIVER Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2001
    star 4
    If Americans are yankees, who are the yankers?
  6. Stina-Cri Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
  7. Jymm_Roquand Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2002
    star 4
    As far as the US depending on Canada I have to say I am not sure that I entirely agree with the statement one way or the other. True that if one were to disapear the other would be left in shambles, but lets face it when you have any two economical systems that depend on each other as much as Canada and the United States, without one the other will collapse. But I hate to think that one is dependent on the other.

    Like someone who has lost a limb they survive and continue through adaptation. Life may not be what it once was but it surely doesn't end.

    However as I have stated time and time again I do not beleive that the divisions of the world into individual nations is necesarily the best thing. As we see with the US there is a great amount of pride about where they come from. Great you are appreciative of where you are from, but I think the pride is taken too far sometimes. People kill over this pride destroy homes and buildings, cause war and mayhem. All because of the beleif that one place is any better then another. True it might be better run but do not forget that we are all human and in 200 years most of these countries won't exist anymore even the United States and Canada will be gone eventually. I see little point in placing pride in a temporary name sake, and then slaughtering each other over it.

    Don't get me worng I love Canada and am very appreciative of what this nation has provided me. But I do not see the point of killing each other over a name that may not exist in a century or two. Again I think that these devisions seperate us terribly and we become so set in these divisions when one does better then another we become irrational about protecting that advantage. I think instead of better the nation we should be bettering the world because it is a world we all have to live in. Bottom line we are all human no matter where we live. I think the sooner we realize this the sooner we can solve many of the problems that face us.
  8. KitFist0 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2001
    star 4
    I don't have a problem with the american people it's you representation. It's not patriotic to critize the President, what ??? Your ancestors fought for democracy, why through it away ? You were first nation to install a demacratic system. What I don't like is your interpretation of capitalism. In theory, capitalism is when the rich give back to the poor and help them the rich are called on to be charitable, personaly that's more like Canada, excpet Alberta, you can have them if you want. I don't like the CIA and the republicans, I come off as untrust worthy. How's this we give you Alberta and we get Vermont, New Hamshire and Maine, we'll call it New England, you can call Alberta the oil state or whatever.
  9. Stina-Cri Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    well you are right about the cia and republicans...don't trust them...also the us postal service...they are a dirty crew (and sadly they are all hobos)
  10. Jymm_Roquand Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2002
    star 4
    Well it seems no matter how hard i try to be understanding and open minded, there is always someone there to just piss me off even more.

    I don't hate Americans. I have good American friends, but I can not stand arrogance and condescension. Why is it everyother american I talk has some onfounded hatred with Canada. Some call us mooches, others call us a joke country, some can't even find us on a map. And they constantly find pleasure in bashing and berating Canada.

    Its like the school yard bully who has nothing better to do with his time then attack everyone around him, without reason or provocation simply because he can. And the worst part is that no one will stand up to him.

    Again i don't think this of all Americans. I will not judge and entire nation of people solely because a few cocky aragant ****** ******* can't keep their trap shut.

    In case you haven't noticed I am currently super pissed off and need to blow off steam so if anyone takes offence to what i have said PM me dont post it here...I won't bring down the thread in such discussions.

    GAH!!!!!
  11. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    I was born in the states.
    My grandfather is from Quebec
    My Dad is Brittish

    I have 3 citizenships, none of which I take seriously.

    I'm not one to wave a flag. I believe that the individual should be judged on their own actions. There are a lot of great Americans, just like every other country. There are a lot of jerks in other countries too.

    A people should not be held accountable for their education system either. If the U.S. haas an introverted view of the world, then the education system will be the same.

    No one ever says...man those African tribes are jerks because they know nothing of Denmark.

    Along the same token, how many of us know about Fiji?

    The individual will learn what they want to learn. In most cases though, people accept what they are taught in school as the be-all and end-all.
  12. Sar-Tamber-lac Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 5
    Ya know, with all the bad things said about Americans, there can be just as many said about Canadians. You're going to find great, awesome people wherever you go. You're going to find stupid, ignorant, arrogant people wherever you go. Why divide them into countries like this, and cause dissention? It doesn't do any good. All it does is drive us further away from each other, and cause more rifts to gripe and complain about like this. Now, I'm not pushing for some utopian society, where we can all live as one big happy family. I'm not stupid. However, I think this singling one country out over another is getting silly and petty. There's just no reason for it.

    That's just my $.02. No offense meant to anyone.
  13. Jymm_Roquand Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2002
    star 4
    Ian_Ball No one holds them accountable for their education system, just as we should not be held accountable for our military. But there is a big difference between knowing Denmark or Fiji and knowing a neighbour you have shared over 200 years of history with. For goodness sakes we help support each other in ways I can't imagine anyother leading power does with another nation leading or not. We share the worlds longest unprotected border. Knowing who we are is not that difficult a task.

    Sar-Tamber-lac You forgot to convert I beleive you mean your $0.0125. ;)
  14. Entil`Zha Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 4
    In general, the US is much like Canada, but Canada doesn't have a "dangerous" Regime in place creating conflicts around the world and blocking diplomatic exchanges. I'm sure all of that will be solved with the next elections.

    One thing I realised about the U.S is that it used to be the land of freedom and liberty but not anymore, Civil Rights are less important now and it's been replaced by "Homeland Security". So as long as I know everything that you do, you are free to wander around the nation....

    If you've never seen Bowling for Columbine by Michael Moore, I recommend it. You'll see the difference between on countries, especially the difference with what we see on the news every night... it's mind blowing... literally! :p
  15. AT-ST_DRIVER Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2001
    star 4
    If you've never seen Bowling for Columbine by Michael Moore, I recommend it. You'll see the difference between on countries, especially the difference with what we see on the news every night... it's mind blowing... literally!

    Agreed. I also highly recommend his book "Stupid White Men." It's great. I'm also gonna be first in line for his next book, "Dude, Where's My Country?" which hits stores October 7. ;)
  16. lord-darkhelmet Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2003
    star 3
    "If you've never seen Bowling for Columbine by Michael Moore, I recommend it. You'll see the difference between on countries, especially the difference with what we see on the news every night... it's mind blowing... literally! :p"

    I saw the film a while back and I found it interesting, and disturbing in parts. However, the portrayal of Canadians in that movie was one I, as a born and raised Canadian, did not recognize. Maybe it's because I live in BC and Moore was only dealing with neighbourhoods in Ontario and there is some relevant difference between the two, but the Canada shown in that film is not the one in which I live. I mean, do people in Toronto really leave their doors unlocked?

    But the movie was entertaining which was probably the main goal anyway.

    And, for the record, I do not believe there is much difference between Canadians and Americans. For me, going down to Seattle is no more of a culture shock than visiting Calgary. The people are pretty much the same except for the fact that I can talk about hockey with anyone I meet in Canada, but in the US I just get blank stares.

    -ldh-
  17. Stina-Cri Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    there are plenty of americans i know that love hockey!
    Go to pittsburgh and you'll find lots of penguins fans (including my grandma) that follow it.
  18. lord-darkhelmet Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2003
    star 3
    Ya, I know - I was just kidding. ;)

    Anyway, my point was that while there are cultural differences between Canadians and Americans, I don't think those differences are greater than the cultural differences between (for example) British Columbians and Ontarians or Californians and Georgians. Or, put another way, the differences between the groups are no greater than the differences within the groups - in my opinion.

    -ldh-
  19. Lelila Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 1999
    star 4
    A little bit offtopic, but does anyone find that when they are looking for a fanforce US city forum they have to wade through all the different regions because they don't know American geography well?
  20. Rani Veko Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2000
    star 4
    *sheepishly raises hand*

    I know where most of those contiguous mainland 48 states are in general, and I've even visited about ten of them in my lifetime, but FanForce has the USA divided into not 4, but *6* regions, making them even more difficult to locate sometimes. :p

    I totally agree with the comment made about Homeland Security surrepticiously replacing U.S. Civil Rights one at a time. Currently they're aquiring the legal right to track which library books citizens are checking out, but if this trend is left unchecked, they'll be tapping phones or reading personal mail without the "annoying inconvenience" of such things as aquiring court orders or establishing just cause or aquiring evidence.

    "Land of the free, home of the brave", if the citizens of the U.S.A. don't hold their government accountable, could potentially wind up becomming "Land of the monitored, home of the oppressed".

    Before I get barked at for giving the opinion I was asked for in this thread, I want it made clear that I don't dislike U.S. residents these days as much as I am afraid for them, as I have many close friends south of the border. What I don't want to become is afraid of them if our neighbouring world superpower begins to become a fascist state, and decides it needs a some more land for crops, oil, lumber, and water to support themselves.

    My perfectly good 2 cents worth, courtesy of the Royal Canadian Mint.

    - Rani
  21. Jymm_Roquand Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2002
    star 4
    As for the recomendation of Bowling for Columbine I think you guys should be aware of a few things.

    Bowling for the Truth

    Interesting Expose

    I love the movie. It is very well made. It is genious has a good message and gets its point accross. But I am not a fan of the lies and deception.

    Just thought that those that praise it see the other side of the coin.
  22. Rani Veko Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2000
    star 4
    (Jymm, straight up, what follows isn't any kind of an attack on you, but rather on the authors of the sites that the links above take us to. I'm grateful you're participating in this thread, and shared the links above with us, and I hope you'll keep sharing your opinions here too. For what it's worth, I've agreed with every word you have stated in this discussion so far. :) )

    As a belated warning to others, the second link above (I'm not certain about the first one,) does lead to letters to the author and the author's responses, both of which contain some pretty explicit swearing.

    Anyway, I spent an hour or so checking out the above links plus a few other pages they link to, and I have to say that the first one, Bowling for the Truth, for me personally skidded off the alley and missed every pin. It is pretty blatent anti-Moore propeganda, as demonstrated in the text from the main page of the first link: "...this site exists because Michael Moore is clever and glib and a very good film maker - but he uses his powers for evil."

    Evil? Evil? Look out, kids, Michael Moore isn't just stupid, (like the site's author keeps claiming), he's EVIL too. :eek: [face_mischief]

    At least the second link which takes us to an expose by David T. Hardy called "BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE, Documentary or Fiction?" provides a little less personal opinion and more factually-based statements, and is far more dispassionate. (In fact, the the author of the first site seems to have saved himself a lot of research time by simply plagerizing David T. Hardy, the author of the second site's article!)

    Here's a link to Michael Moore's response to the predicable criticism he's received for his film. Some of you might also be interested in Moore's own "Homeland Security Approved" ;) website, www.michaelmoore.com.

    Sorry if I derailed the topic of the thread further, and when I have some time later I'll be happy to make up for it by posting a list of things I really like about the USA, okay? :)

    - Rani
  23. AT-ST_DRIVER Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2001
    star 4
    Want to read Moore on the subject? click here.


    All puins intended.
  24. Jymm_Roquand Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2002
    star 4
    Again either way I don't care what people beleive. It is up to each individual to make up their own mind about issues. Unfortunately I do not think that Bowling for Columbine is entirely truthful. And while the film maker has no obligation to make said movie truthful, it does not sit well that he seems to pass it off as truth. My posting those links is in no way supporting them. Nor do I sit against them. I am indifferent in the subject. Rather my posting of the links was to allow people another oppurtunity to read further into the truth then the movie allows. YOu do not have to. But be aware that not everything presented as fact in the media is necesarily so. The same goes for these sites. They are entirely one sided in their argument. Again this is just so people can see a second side presented.

    I personally enjoyed the movie. Michael Moore was correct. Something is seriously wrong with today's media and point of veiw. At least in my opinion. I do think that his intentions were good and the message he was trying to send was correct, that something has to be done about reckless use of weapons and such.

    I am going to end my rant here because i must move on to other things.

    EDIT: Just ona few side notes I would like to personally thank Rani Veko for not making this discussion personal in anyway. I am glad she realizes that I did not mean attack against anyone nor am I taking a side. Just allwoing others to see a second side of the story. I would also like to reiterate I do not endorse any point of veiw spoken here. those sites I posted I am not affiliated with and only recomend because they allow you another angle. Unfortunately they are incredibly biased. While reading through Moore's rebutal I do see that neither side seems to be reasonably centered in the issue, and that is fine if they choose that option. However I am disapointed that when presenting the "truth" there are no sources more centered. It is becoming difficult to discern what is accurate.
  25. ivylore2 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 2
    Hmmm...

    I guess I'll jump in. I'm originally from the Boston area (New England rocks) and I've lived in Canada (Ottawa, Vancouver and up North) for the past ten years.

    In general, most Canadians know more about the U.S. than the U.S. knows about Canada. I think this is a combination of education and the fact that we're inundated with American media and news. Most Canadians can name all fifty states, the last few presidents, can recount the war of 1812 in detail, and have a fair interest in American foreign policy.

    My mother, whom I love dearly, and who loves Canada and comes to see me often - if I mention a city such as Winnipeg - she still asks me if it's between Boston and Ottawa. A good number of my relatives have no idea who the prime minister is. I've been asked some pretty stupid questions my own family, by friends, by people I meet. I work in forestry part of the year and I've given up trying to explain that too.

    :) However - Canadians like to flaunt their superior knowledge a wee bit. Most will admit it. When you live next to the most influential nation in the world, it's kind of gratifying to feel as though you have a little intellectual edge on the masses south of the border.

    Government however, is entirely different issue. To keep it short - I'll just say that living in another country has allowed me to view the U.S. government from less than favourable vantage point. (Softwood Lumber Crisis, U.N. Resolutions, and so on.)

    Personally, I love Canada and have no plans to move back to the states.


    Edit: Regarding Bowling for Columbine; I really enjoyed the film and the message, however I do agree there were shady aspects to it - or, aspects perhaps better taken with a grain of salt. I don't feel they detracted from the films overall message, however.
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