So you think the US is in a moral downfall....

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by TreeCave, Feb 21, 2002.

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  1. Kessel Runner Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 1999
    star 6
    Amen to that TreeCave.

    Btw, at the time, Damien Echols claimed to be a Wiccan. But he had changed his name to Damien because he had converted to Catholicism earlier and took the name of the saint from Molokai.

    And since then he has flirted with Buddhism and a few other faiths. He is a "kid" who is searching for a spiritual path.
  2. GreedoCMZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 1999
    star 4
    The myth that's built up around them is highly amusing. I suggest reading some works by Anton LaVey - or just go to their website, which is churchofsatan.com. Feel free to disagree with and dislike them - but you won't come away thinking they're murders.

    I know.

    Oh, I'm not saying I think the Church of Satan has the right approach, and I don't think TreeCave is either.

    I know.

    My friend met someone once who had been in the Church of Satan (maybe not the branch or "parrish" we're talking about), and said that the members thought it was great to be Satanists because they were no longer in 'servitude' to Jesus Christ. This guy eventually left when he realized the members of the Satanic Church were just as equally in 'servitude' to Satan. Again, I don't know how representative this is of all Satanists. The whole thing's just not my cup of tea even if all they do is sit around and sip tea.
  3. Kessel Runner Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 1999
    star 6
    I'd like to re-iterate for those living in the Los ANgeles area and who like Some punk music, Henry Rollins is doing a benefit concert at the Troubador in LA for the West Memphis Three. There will also be a silent auction of some items from the documentary shoots.

    I'll be there, as will many of the supporters. Come by and show your support!
  4. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    Ergh! Rollins at the Troubador.... every time you reiterate, it hurts. LOL!

    Nah, I'm just glad I'll be back in time for Ep 2!!! Up here, they don't even have THX equipped theaters, and I darned well intend to see that movie in full digital mind-blowing format!!!!
  5. Kessel Runner Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 1999
    star 6
    Where abouts are you TreeCave? I didn't realize you were a Los Angeleno.

    TJD (my fiance) is trying to put together a big-time benefit through some connections she has. We'll see what can happen.
  6. GreedoCMZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 1999
    star 4
    TreeCave's trying to get back to Los Angeles.
  7. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    KR, I moved away from LA thinking I could live a little better somewhere cheaper, but it turned out the whole US sucks, so I'm moving back April 1. I've been away nearly 2 years, and I hated it.
  8. Kessel Runner Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 1999
    star 6
    D'oh! I knew that. Just had a minor brain lockup. ;)

    Well, when you get back into town, look me up. We'll be doing the line at the Chinese, maybe I'll see you there.
  9. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    Hey, does Mann's have digital yet? Even without it, that's still the place to go. Although for opening day 1999, I bought tickets over the phone, went to this little theater in Culver City about an hour in advance... not too exciting, but no fear of not getting good seats and all that, either.

    I may see you, but how will I know you? :D

    There's a slight chance my roommate and I will be Mara and Leia in Jedi robes, if we can get costumes together, which is doubtful. Otherwise, we'll be.... well, Mara and a short-haired Leia in plain clothes. Seriously, we're pretty good matches for their descriptions. (Okay, I could never be mistaken for Carrie Fisher, but I'm definitely the same type).
  10. Kessel Runner Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 1999
    star 6
    Oh yeah, when they built the new mall complex with the multiplex, they renovated the original Chinese too. It's all digital. Too loud, if you ask me. Especially the highs. Next time I go there I'm probably taking ear plugs ;) We live 4 blocks from the theater.
  11. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    COOL! Well, I've been taking ear plugs for a long time - they're all too loud.

    Say, do you know of an apt my roommate and I could safely take sight unseen? :D Can you tell apt hunting is not my favorite part of the process of moving?
  12. Kessel Runner Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 1999
    star 6
    Well I can tell you the building across the street from us is in the process of renovating the entire building. Don't know the prices, but they should be gorgeous when they're done. It has pools, spas, workout rooms, etc. And it is 4 blocks from the Chinese and Hollywood & Highland.
  13. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    Maybe we'll just drive around that area when we get down there. Some of it's very nice, and it's all very convenient.
  14. Kessel Runner Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 1999
    star 6
    yeah and this neighborhood is gentrifying pretty quickly. It's turning into a nice place to live.
  15. JediLeiaSolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2001
    star 2
    I think that the US is in a moral downfall, but the city of Los Angeles is morally superior. :D

    Or maybe that's theatrically superior....either way, it's the best place I've ever lived.

    As for the whole satanists/wiccans/any other type of religions as opposed to Christianity: any time you organize people in groups, it tends to be a bad thing (my humble opinion). It fosters an "us vs. them" psychology that really isn't helpful.

    I have not read from about pages 12 to 18, and I think I'm not going to because much of it is about abortion, and its just best not to get me started (thank god Kessel put a stop to that), so I hope I haven't missed much.

    I think morals and religions get mixed up too easily. I have a pretty high moral code for myself, and I'm not a member or subscriber to any particular religion or belief system.

    The Church of Satan's website is a great read.

    Here's my question:
    What kind of morality is it when people fail to react in any way when a crime is committed in front of them? I've heard several stories of this happening where the witnesses, who neither stepped in nor called police, couldn't explain their own inaction, but they were often church-going, honest citizens just on their way home or to a friend's house.

    All the best,
    JediLeiaSolo
  16. GreedoCMZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 1999
    star 4
    They don't want to get involved. They don't want to testify as a witness in court. They don't want to get murdered too.

    My former fiancee was in an auto accident where her family's van overturned and went off the road. A Good Samaritan-like lady pulled over, got out of her car and headed over to their car to help. On her way to the upside down van she got hit by another car and died instantly.
  17. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    That's very depressing, Greedo.

    More disturbing, there was a case in NY a few years ago... sorry, I've tried to block it from mind, so I'm a bit vague. But not only did the bystanders fail to slip away and anonymously call the police while someone was being (I think) stabbed to death.... they started cheering for the stabber.

    Now, I don't think you can convince me that's a human reaction. That's a bunch of animals in a herd, pure mob mentality. It's scary when you think how little we've really evolved from so-called "lower animals" if we can still fall into patters like that.
  18. GreedoCMZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 1999
    star 4
    I heard that story too about the crowd in NY cheering on the stabber. I believe the perpetrator was attacking someone that he just found out was a transexual escort. That's just really stomach-turning to think that a crowd would cheer for something like that. What type of planet do we live on. The perpetrator may not have agreed with the choices the victim had made in their life but the victim had never hurt anyone and I doubt murder was the answer.
  19. Cailina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 4
    As for the whole satanists/wiccans/any other type of religions as opposed to Christianity: any time you organize people in groups, it tends to be a bad thing (my humble opinion). It fosters an "us vs. them" psychology that really isn't helpful.


    I'm not really sure what you're saying here...the first part is kinda confusing. The way I read it I don't understand why you're saying "any other type of religions as opposed to Christianity" since Christianity organizes people in groups. And I would like to point out that among the Wiccans I've met there is not an "us vs them" mentality because they believe that all religions are paths to the truth but Wicca is right for them. Some of them practice alone anyway...

  20. Kessel Runner Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 1999
    star 6
    In regards to NY, there was a case of a group/gang raping of two women in Central Park that was filmed by passers-by who just watched and cheered them on!
  21. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    Well, I do hope those who participated - actively or passively - in these crimes get to enjoy being the target of such a situation sometime. I'm sure it would be very educational for them.

    (And people think I don't believe in the death penalty because I feel sorry for criminals - LOL. Let's bring on Arab justice - slice off the part of the body that committed the crime. Sounds good to me.) :D
  22. Kessel Runner Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 1999
    star 6
    btw, TreeCave, it looks like The Jedi Droid and myself are probably going to move our AOTC line experience down to OC and the Big Newport. It's a smaller group more suited to our personalities. Plus it's a shorter length of time in line. I love a long line, but I don't have the vacation time for it this time.
  23. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    Well, what are you waiting in line for? Tickets, or the movie itself? I didn't wait in line for TPM last time because I couldn't get the time off from work. Bought my tickets in advance (at the BO, I think), and just came early the day of. Then again, I didn't go to the midnight showing or anything - I enjoy the crowds and craziness to an extent, but I really just wanted to see the movie in a way that I could... well, SEE it. LOL! Ended up seeing it twice on opening day, which was way cool!

    Well, JediLeiaSolo and I will be down there somewhere.... let us know what you guys are doing, and we'll see if we can't connect somewhere!
  24. JediLeiaSolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2001
    star 2
    Cailina (and everyone else):
    From my original:
    As for the whole satanists/wiccans/any other type of religions as opposed to Christianity: any time you organize people in groups, it tends to be a bad thing (my humble opinion). It fosters an "us vs. them" psychology that really isn't helpful.


    I'm not really sure what you're saying here...the first part is kinda confusing. The way I read it I don't understand why you're saying "any other type of religions as opposed to Christianity" since Christianity organizes people in groups. And I would like to point out that among the Wiccans I've met there is not an "us vs them" mentality because they believe that all religions are paths to the truth but Wicca is right for them. Some of them practice alone anyway...

    Ok, I'm terribly sorry. That was probably the worst typo ever. It should read:

    "As for the whole satanists/wiccans/any other type of religions vs. Christianity: any time you organize people in groups, it tends to be a bad thing (my humble opinion). It fosters an "us vs. them" psychology that really isn't helpful. "

    What I really meant was the smaller religious groups aren't really organized. Sure, there's an organization but they really are lone practitioners who gather under a blanket title. There really aren't enough members to petition congress for consideration when passing laws. I mean, do you ever hear of a Wiccan group donating thousands to the GOP for their election? No, you hear about the Catholic Bishop's whatever and on and on and on: Christian organizations.

    I guess that really doesn't have anything to do with this forum, upon further examination.

    GreedoCMZ
    I think the event you described is horriffic. The specific event I'm remembering occurred in a larger city, but not in NY, where people were on the way home from their daily commute, and saw a woman being attacked. Many of these people were stuck in traffic, talking to acquaintances on their cell phones. I specifically remember several witnesses having phones in their cars, and many of them never bothered to call 911, or have the party on the other line do so. These people had no excuse, and afterwards said they felt no fear for their own lives, but still didn't make a move to help the victim.

    All the best,
    JediLeiaSolo


  25. Kessel Runner Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 1999
    star 6
    We saw it five times opening day, plus once with LFL the Sunday before it opened. It was, for us, about having a communal experience with other fans, and raising money for charity while we were at it. Hell, we got pieces of the Death Star, t-shirts, posters, toys, patches....all for free from LFL/ILM employees. I'd say it was worth it.

    But being down here, we lose all the LFL connection and it becomes more about being on TV. That ain't my bag baby.
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