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Lit Societies in SW

Discussion in 'Literature' started by General Immodet, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. AirNeeva

    AirNeeva Jedi Padawan star 1

    Feb 20, 2012
    I thought this thread was going to be a long encyclopedia on the Societies of SW; I would have gone on an long, neverending rant of the history of the Hapes Consortium during the Isolationist era...
    TrakNar likes this.
  2. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Aug 10, 2005
    ..........Would they have had much history, being isolationist and socially conservative?

    Well, beyond all the backstabbing anyway.
  3. General Immodet

    General Immodet Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 5, 2012
    As I said, we are forgetting what this thread really is about...
  4. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Nov 28, 2000
    [blockquote]Still, I find these things are better served by a representative government than an absolutist one - pretty much by definition, a dictator or absolute monarch has all the power and is above the law, which makes protecting rights difficult to say the least.[/blockquote]

    I agree. The absolutist nature of the Emperor is more a function of his role as savior of the galaxy than anything else; his successors might have ruled as constitutional monarchs, as indeed envisioned by the great patriotic heroine Admiral Betl Oxtroe. That said, I'd submit that many of the allegations of Imperial misrule have less to do with the power held by His Majesty -- who rarely exercised said powers -- and more to do with the powers held by Rimkin officials who had essentially perverted Imperial law to serve their own interests and could therefore act with impunity against helpless innocents. Such barbarity would never have been tolerated in the Core Worlds.

    You are correct that there was no legal way to determine the Emperor's successor -- but this was not sinister. Rather, the Senate and all good citizens of the Empire reacted with such horror at the prospect that any such discussion never took place. It was unthinkable.

    re: Security: I won't disagree with you there. I have never bought the notion that security can only be purchased at the expense of liberty, and I am a firm opponent of those jackbooted COMPNOR thugs and their SAGroup lackeys. They exercise a pernicious influence over the arts and high culture, because those philistines cannot support anything that doesn't accord with their proletarian radical fascist agenda. Why the other day, I tried to purchase tickets to the Mon Calamari ballet, only to discover that the Mon Calamari species did not even exist! What nonsense!

    re: Use of Force: I'll remind you that Grand Moff Tarkin was, in fact, punished for his treason. What, do you think Lord Vader could fail to destroy a small group of outdated snubfighters? Did you think some pitiful little band could destroy the battlestation with small scale munitions? Please! What kind of fool buys into Voren Na'al's narrative that the "heroes of Yavin" destroyed the Death STar?

    I'll tell you who destroyed the Death Star: The Lord Darth Vader, on the orders of His Imperial Majesty. Do you think it a coincidence that Lord Vader just HAPPENED to be outside of the station when it happened? Do you think an individual of his exalted rank goes on routine combat missions best suited for grunts? Please. That stretches all rational credulity.

    re: democracy: I cannot buy your narrative. Democracy encourages demagoguery of the worst sort, and it encourages dictatorial individuals -- like Mon Mothma -- to seize absolute power in the guise of giving the people what they want. It's a trick. A sham. Moreover, the point about accountability was that multiple representatives are better at keeping people like Tarkin restrained than a single monarch -- but that was a silly point because the Galactic Senate never exercised oversight functions over the actions of the rank-and-file commanders. Its oversight capacity -- to the extent that it had one -- was always macro-level. Compare to the Imperial government, which consisted of privy counselors (the so-called Imperial advisors) who directly supervised the moff governors of the Colonial Administration and ensured that they were in-line with Imperial law. The top level of government is irrelevant in determining the accountability of the lower levels -- what matters is the extent to which there is actual government, and the Imperial government established a proper bureaucracy that followed along in the footsteps of the Old Republic -- indeed, in most of the Core Worlds, republican institutions continued to operate just as they always had. It was only in the barbaric, war-torn Rim -- where the Republic had never truly existed -- that such was not possible. I assure you that once those regions had been pacified and civilized, the proper old republican institutions would have taken over civil authority from the temporary military governors of those regions.

    Finally, re: nationalization: only the assets of traitors and fools were nationalized by Imperial authorities. Nationalization was never Imperial policy -- just look at TaggeCo or KDY for examples.
  5. Mechalich

    Mechalich Jedi Knight star 4

    Feb 2, 2010
    At the time of his death Palpatine was 86 years old. While Star Wars human lifespans might reasonably be expected to have a median life expetency close to the centenial mark, that would still leave a pretty decent chance of dying before then. The actuarial tables on the Galactic Emperor were not especially favorable. There must have been some provision, no matter how half-baked regarding what would happen in the event of his death. Considering that he ruled for four full years after dissolving the Senate some sort of extra-democratic provision would have necessarily been made for succession.

    Of course, we do actually see a process of succession in action. As early as 19 BBY, during the Ghost Prison incident, the Empire was sufficently devoted to a military hierarchy that the presumption of the Emperor's death (which was spread through at least the military heirarchy) resulted in the attempted seizure of control by the senior surviving military official: Grand Moff Tarkin.

    Assuming that this admittedly ad hoc policy held in place up through Endor, there would have been at least an informal line of sucession. In all likelihood Darth Vader was the proclaimed 'heir,' with Palpatine placing several officials with roughly equal claim directly below him (ie. key advisors, grand moffs, and grand admirals all with roughly equal legitimacy). When Vader died along with Palpatine at Endor this unleashed the full chaos we observe.
  6. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Sep 2, 2012

    So, would the A New Hope movie be in-universe propaganda by that standard?
  7. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Aug 10, 2005
    ............Well, I certainly can't argue with that post.

    Which by the laws of the internet means I lose I guess. Empire forever, Talley-Ho!

    ..................................Though wouldn't Palpatine be quite the demagogue himself?