Lit SOD: Save Our Darth - Darth Vader

Presumably it's the same as Luke guiding 3 year old Jacen to whoop some Sithspawn butt.

 

Yeah, I don't think there's anything messed up about it at all.

I also love how there's (accidental?) synergy with TESB:

"If you face Vader you must do so alone. I cannot interfere."

 

As well as

"He's just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him"

I was under the impression that Splinter of the Mind's Eye was partially scripted by Lucas as a low-budget sequel to Star Wars in the event that the movie flopped.

 

I also don't see it as any different from Luke guiding Jacen to use his lightsaber against Exar Kun's Sith Beasts.

 

The thing is, Obi-Wan only managed to beat Vader in RotS by effectively playing the immovable object (so to speak, as it was a constant fighting retreat) to Vader's unstoppable force, until deus ex machina 'saves the day'. He was a master of Soresu; but we have Lucas (or was it someone else involved in RotS?) stating that the only reason Obi-Wan could keep up was they knew how the other fought so well, after so many years of duels, war and training together, that neither could get the upper hand. Even then, I note a second time for importance, Vader was for the most part dominating the fight and hounding Obi-Wan. I don't believe Obi-Wan foresaw the high ground scene.

The block of a mortal blow made nonchalantly behind his back. Throttling and trying to kill Obi-Wan with his own lightsaber. The strain on Obi-Wan's face through the entire fight; and Vader's composed, stern, simmering rage. The leap from the pillar as it went over the side of the lava; if I remember right, the largest force-leap anyone has done in the films. Keeping his footing and fighting Obi-Wan to a standstill, as he has been all along, on the tiny platform with no room for footwork, and leaping over him and declaring that it's the end of Obi-Wan... and Obi-Wan not arguing.

Obi-Wan got the opening he needed; but it was very much the will of the force (Or, to put it another way, George Lucas wrote it the way he did because Obi-Wan needed an opportunity to use the new Dark Lord's hot-headed arrogance against him), and using his superior experience and (at the time) tactical ability to accomplish what he didn't have the skill to do outright. Stopping at the scene, and watching the jump, it actually makes no sense whatsoever. Designed purely so Obi-Wan could win, and the Vader we knew could be born. The leap is no different to the one he made on the floating platform, nor any different to the ones used in various duels. Vader makes no move whatsoever to even attempt a block and is completely graceless. Looking at it, I don't see how it's even supposed to work. I forget; does the novel explain it any better than the live action scene?

We know that aside from his defensive style making up for it somewhat (the whole reason he learned it, mastering it due to expecting to duel Dooku again), Obi-Wan is far from the most skilled duellist of his time. Ventress remains something of a threat to him, long after Anakin has defeated her again and again, trivialising her eventually. Dooku almost casually defeats him in AotC, whereas Anakin at least makes him work for a minute or so, and again is rather casual in throwing him aside in RotS... and Anakin even before he uses his anger starts to give the duellist problems.

And then, we come to ANH. Vader has been hunting Jedi and fighting for decades... while Obi-Wan meditated and aged terribly on Tatooine. I firmly believe that Obi-Wan threw the fight early, but I do believe he would have lost in a true test of skill by this point in Vader's existence. He no longer knows his ex-student well enough make up the gap in skill, he is effectively fighting someone with the strength of a wookie and more skill than Anakin possessed, and even if he hasn't gotten rusty himself, he hasn't exactly had the opportunity to hone his skills either.

I can give him SotME, as he is part of the force itself, presumably at the peak of his own skills again, working through someone with the potential of their father, against an opponent who thinks they are fighting an untrained boy.

Of course, this is just how I see things.

 

Read the RotS novelization to understand how Obi-Wan beat Anakin. That is all, back to your regularly scheduled SOD.

 

For me, Obi-Wan is the Ron Weasley. He's the non-Chosen One who is as great as the Chosen One.

 

I have, but it was a long time ago now, I believe when it was released. It apparently didn't change my perception, if I'm mistaken.

 

For me, ROTS showed it best.

They're evenly matched until Obi-Wan taunts him into doing something stupid.

 

That bit about the two of them knowing each other so well was mentioned in the ROTS novel, and also in a dvd extra detailing the making of ROTS.

This. To understand the duel on all levels, watch the movie, read the novel, and play the game.

 

That'll probably be where I got it from, as years ago i did indeed do all three.

 

Interesting EU-only thought.

Is Darth Vader, "officially", the Emperor's Wrath in whatever Sith cult Palpatine's built around himself?

Or does that position have no meaning outside of the Second Sith Empire?

Was Darth Vader Supreme Commander of the Imperial Military, the Executor, or just the guy Emperor Palpatine put in charge of the Death's Head fleet?

 

That battle ultimately, I think, comes down to Diligence vs. Raw Talent.

Anakin is the guy who always coasted through school to an A grade. Obi-Wan's the moderately talented guy who had to work really hard for his A grades.

But, at the end of the day, an A is an A.

Alternatively, it's Batman vs. Captain America.

 

Obi-Wan is a nice lesson on the fact the "Chosen Bloodline" doesn't do everything. A regular Jedi can beat Luke Skywalker, if he studies enough.

Well, and Luke didn't study 24-7 the same way Obi Wan does.

That's just cheating!

 

Real life fights aren't simply a matter of who is the better fighter but a lot of different variables and anyone can have a bad day. That's why if Anakin/Vader loses a fight, whether it be with Obi-Wan or Starkiller, it doesn't say anything about who is the more talented person but who simply won that fight. If Obi-Wan and Anakin aren't fighting on Mustafar then Obi-Wan is toast. This isn't Dragonball Z with power levels and whoever has the higher power level is going to win the fight no matter what.

 

Star Wars isn't real life, either.

Still, I don't really disagree. I'm fairly content to view lightsaber duels the same way I do tennis matches.

 

Speaking as a person who has been in a lot of fights in RL and who has competed professionally, this is both true and misleading. Bruce Lee pointed out the fact that, in RL, martial arts was never going to replace a gun. That's why guns were invented, so regular people could kill more efficiently and with a minimum amount of skill. Likewise, nothing prevents someone from just walking up and shooting the best soldier in the world while he's getting drinks at a bar.

It's a bit different in martial arts and contests of swordsmanship where the styles are similar. The whole idea behind dueling culture, which is centuries old and had the exact same form of "who would win, X or Y" well before the internet, is that in the context of two people in a limited space and abiding by X rules will have an objective winner based on who is the better at this.

Star Wars compounds the issue by incorporating the Force into matters where, 9/10, the guy who is strongest in the Force and the better lightsaber wielder will win the contest. There's going to be an X factor where Kento Marek (Galen's Dad) is an absolute crap lightsaber combatant (he only uses Form I) and yet has the Marek Family Boon w/ telekinesis that allows him to hit Vader with TIE fighters.

Now, we still see the "Shoot a guy when he's getting drinks at a bar" business. Emperor Palpatine gets shot in the back by Han Solo, General Grevious gets blasted by Obi Wan Kenobi, and so on. Likewise, dueling isn't limited to Jedi. The one time Han Solo really gets completely owned is by Gallandro, who Han Solo idiotically decided to test himself against in a gunfight. Gallandro, like Wild Bill Hickock, got killed by forces which decided not to abide by the rules of a gunfight.

However, we also like to know who is the better duelist when put into an even match. It's basically applying tournament rules to Star Wars sense of real life but reinforced by the movies which have Obi Wan and Vader's original fight a gentleman's contest to the death.

 

I got the impression it had less to do with "Han deciding to test himself" and more to do with Gallandro forcing the issue.

 

It's more a consequence Han decided to make a fool of Gallandro the last time they dueled. Han injured Gallandro's good arm and everyone started to say he outdrew Gallandro.

Mostly because Solo said it.

 

Unlike the Sith Emperor, Palpatine doesn't have a pretense of striving for a 'functional society', Sith or otherwise. After order 66, Darth Sidious doesn't even try. So there's that difference. I think while Vader's goal was order within the Empire, the Emperor relished chaos and did not hide his concept for all things in the galaxy except the dark side and Sith Lightning. In my opinion, Vader is more reminiscent of the Old Republic Sith.

While I think that Darth Vader was Supreme Commander of the Imperial Military, it was like Grievous being in charge of the droid army, where the army is largely incompetent and ineffective. Being placed in charge of it is not exactly an honor.

 

I'd rather have consistency.

"But why can't you interfere? You interfered on Mimban!"

"Uh... that didn't happen."

 

I'd prefer "Because I only get one chance to do so- and that was it".

 

If you mean the duel between Anakin and Obi-wan ? Weren't they fairly matched and really it took only one error to determine the the outcome ? I have no problem with either Skywalker losing to far more experienced enemies with the Force or the more unique Force users they have yet to encounter. But I expect them to Rocky Balboa it in round 2

Ulicus, I thought the Cap vs Batman debate was over once we saw one of them lift a motorcycle overhead with 3 women on it while the other could not


Ok Vader in Rebels, predictions ? Especially now we got inquisitors involved.