Lit Solving EU inconsistencies

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Ithorians, Aug 20, 2017.

  1. Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC

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    I like the idea that Palpatine had two Grand Viziers to conflict with each other, but also to set up his second Empire in the Deep Core - but doesn't tell Amedda about the Dark Empire.


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  2. PCCViking Force Ghost

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    That's akin to Sate Pestage and Kinman Doriana serving both Sidious and Palpatine, but only Sate knowing that Sidious and Palpatine are the same person. At least, as of Outbound Flight, Doriana seemed to be in the dark about him actually serving the same master.
  3. Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC

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    And it is consistent with Sidious setting up institutions that conflicted with each other throughout the Empire.


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  4. Darth Invictus Jedi Knight

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    Indeed not only did that prevent(or minimize) conspiracies against him but I think it have him amusement as well to see his underlings struggle against one another
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  5. Ithorians Jedi Knight

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    Pestage seemed like a Grand Vizier a little closer to some dark side matters in the EU, while Amedda seems to be a strictly political advisor. It would be very nice to flesh out Pestage a little more in canon and make a contrast between the two of them...
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  6. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    According to Arden Lyn's narration in The Essential Guide to Warfare, Xendor and the Legions of Lettow left the Jedi to study the dark side and the teachings of other sects in peace and did just that for awhile, but eventually the Jedi got nervous and wiped them out.
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  7. Darth Invictus Jedi Knight

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    Well she isn't an unbiased commentator by any means, in fact I'd say she had an immensely personal stake in those events and so her opinion would be particularly skewed.
    Last edited by Darth Invictus, Sep 11, 2017
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  8. Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC

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    I gathered that Xendor struck Ossus first, seeking to end the conflict in advance.


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  9. Darth Invictus Jedi Knight

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    I always understood it was ambiguous as to who started the war. The Jedi would of course claim Xendor and his followers attacked them and Xendor would say the Jedi persecuted and attacked him and his people.

    I think however you look at it-you really understand the Jedi aren't Angels or without fault. They refused to let Xendor start his academy, they refused to be reasonable, they used their ties to the republic to put Xendor under even greater pressure.

    I recall reading Lynn's account and the anecdote by that wounded Jedi in the Essential guide to the force and it really hit me-it didn't matter who struck first. The Jedi's dogmatism, arrogance, and narrow mindedness caused the war.

    Ultimately the Jedi are the reason for their own downfall. Their narrow minded arrogance, hubris, and dogmatism led to Xendor's legions and it led to the Sith.

    Makes you think doesn't it?
  10. Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC

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    Not me. I lead the Sith fan club on these forums - I am well acquainted with their corruption.


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  11. kalzeth Jedi Youngling

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    Aug 26, 2017
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    Speaking of this I wish there more sith images. We never got pictures of gean or Gravid. The ones of Vect, Rivan and Cognus are unsatisfactory.


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  12. Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC

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    I would have settled for all 30 Rule of Two Sith being named.


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  13. sidv88 Jedi Grand Master

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    I don't know if this is so much an inconsistency, but is the first Lord of the Sith Ajunta Pall or Adas? Yes Pall was from the Jedi Exiles, but it seems to me Adas had his whole holocron, darkside power, rule of the Sith species etc that he was basically assumed to be a Lord of the Sith (by Lumiya who obtained his holocron) even though he pre-dated the Exiles...
  14. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    If the word "Jen'ari" meaning "Dark Lord" was not coined by the Sith till the Exiles arrived - then Adas can't be one. He's usually called Sith'ari - Overlord of the Sith.
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  15. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    Adas transformed the society of the Sith species from a tribal society to a monarchy. Ajunta Pall lead a group of humans who used the Jedi arts to take control of the Sith species and make themselves the Dark Lords of the Sith.
  16. Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC

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    Adas would be the first Overlord, not to be confused with Dark Lord. Ajunta Pall is the first Dark Lord, but potentially the First of many at the time. Then we settle into the Dark Lord-Sith Lord system, before Vitiate has twelve Dark Lords serving him as Emperor, then Darth's above Lords above Masters.

    A more traditional Dark Lord to Lord to Master system, with either one or both of Dark Lord and Lord as Darth's, prevails until the rule of Two has both of them as Dark Lords, Sith Lords and Darth's but one Master and Apprentice.

    Meanwhile the Tribe evolves into a Grand Lord above High Lord above Sith Lord above Sith Master strata, settling on One Grand, Seven High and Thirteen Sith Lords, harkening to their Tapani lineage.

    Krayt then throws the rule book out and unifies the role of Dark Lord under him, making all Sith Lords into Darths, and finally taking the title as Emperor also.


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  17. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    In Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith, we're told that Naga Sadow had pure Sith blood and was in rebellion against the Dark Lords, but in subsequent material, we've been told that Naga Sadow had mostly Jedi blood and was a Dark Lord himself. Dark Lords of the Sith also has a character who's referred to as having been "the reigning Dark Lord" during the Sith Holocaust, but he was later identified as Marka Ragnos, who died before the Great Hyperspace War began.
  18. Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC

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    I assumed it was Shar Dakhan sending the message into the future, actually. Similar style.

    Sadow was in rebellion against Dark Lord Kressh, remember.


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  19. sidv88 Jedi Grand Master

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    Ajunta Pall's age might itself be an inconsistency. As a human, how did he start the Hundred Year Darkness and still be alive to rule on Korriban for years after the Hundred Year Darkness? Aside from Yoda's joke about Luke not looking as good when he reaches 900, I wonder if human Jedi lifespans have definitively been locked down...? Although Cade fully expects Darth Krayt to have been long dead in Legacy when told that Krayt is a human Clone Wars veteran.

    Even if Ajunta Pall lived to an unusually long old age, artwork of him on Korriban show him looking fairly young. Maybe he used Sith alchemy to keep him young, or spent years in stasis during the Hundred Year Darkness.

    As it is, we'll have to assume Ajunta Pall made Knight at age 18 (like Kerra Holt), then became a Master after 1 year of exemplary Jedi Knighthood (like the Barsen'thor in the Old Republic), making him a Jedi Master at 19 and then starting the Hundred Year Darkness. By the time he conquers Korriban, he would have been 119 and had some years left to rule the Sith species...?
    Last edited by sidv88, Sep 11, 2017
  20. Darth Invictus Jedi Knight

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    Well maybe Pall was one of the later schismatics-after all the war went for 100 years the original dark Jedi who started it in 7000 BBY could have been dead and Pall would have been a leader/commander towards the end of the conflict
  21. SheaHublin Jedi Master

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    Nope, there's nothing at all inconsistent when multiple references to other long-lived Sith Lords, and more specifically the Exiles, are factored in. And these references have been around for a long time in the EU- it's one of the earliest established facts about them. Their life-twisting (and extending) techniques were exactly what caused the Schism between them and their fellow Jedi in the first place. The descendants of the Exiles likely did even better, as they had Sith blood in them, and the Sith were a naturally long-lived species. Consider that Naga Sadow was also known to have mostly Jedi blood, yet was also old enough by the time of the Great Hyperspace War to have remembered Simus losing his duel to Marka Ragnos over a Century before (by his own account, in front of all the other Sith Councilors in GAotS), and his entry in NEGtC confirms that all the other Sith Lords of his time also knew those same techniques.

    Where this does create something of an inconsistency is when the date of the Sith Empire's founding was changed to 6,900 BBY, when it had originally been around 25,000 BBY. When you have the Exiles themselves living for greatly extended lifespans, and their descendant Sith Lords also were known to have lived for Centuries, and the Empire itself lasted for "only" 1,900 years there can't really be too many generations in between. Sadow, Kressh, and their contemporaries might only have been great-great-grandchildren or so of the original Exiles!
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  22. Darth Invictus Jedi Knight

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    Indeed.

    I imagine they were though at least 3-4 generations descended even factoring in life extending techniques
  23. PCCViking Force Ghost

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    One thing's for sure: with Kaan's Brotherhood of Darkness and the Lost Tribe of the Sith, there was a dearth of Darths. :p
  24. sidv88 Jedi Grand Master

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    If human Sith living an unusually long time was a common thing, why was Cade so surprised when Darth Krayt revealed himself to be A'Sharad Hett, a Clone Wars veteran? Cade proclaims that any human would long since be dead.

    In fact, Palpatine tells Luke in Dark Empire the opposite--that use of the Dark Side hastened Palpatine's natural death and he needed to find a clone body fast. It's possible he was lying, but why? He should be trying to make the Dark Side seem more attractive to Luke, not less.
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  25. SpecForce Trooper Jedi Knight

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    Jun 19, 2016
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    That and Master Fay would make this picture apparent:
    Light Side = longer life.
    Dark Side = shorter life.
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