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Some controversy....Your feelings on the EU (Eurpoean Union not Expanded Universe BTW)

Discussion in 'Europe General Archive' started by Darth_Asabrush, Dec 6, 2000.

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  1. Obi Anne

    Obi Anne FF manager Celebrations star 8 Manager

    Nov 4, 1998
    I agree on that. But on some issues, environment for example, it's necessary that all countries cooperate. It wont do any good if Sweden manages to create a truly green society if the rest of Europe doesn't.

    But political union, nah, that's not good.
  2. Darth_Asabrush

    Darth_Asabrush Jedi Grand Master star 5

    May 21, 2000
    ...but that is what the end result will be if certain countries get their way!
  3. lejmar_faldor_uk

    lejmar_faldor_uk Jedi Master star 4

    Aug 20, 2000
    well the world could all bow down to my superior and totaly insane way of thinking.....

    one thing is to stop yanks being the only super power!
  4. Hihnt

    Hihnt Jedi Youngling

    May 9, 2001
    I'm from Poland and my country wants to be a part of UE, but I'm against of UE. Why? Beacose UE looks like Old Republic. Its big and deep burecracy mud . The corruption in there is horrible. The taxes are high, so almost everything will cost much more than now in my country (the SW book in Poland now costs like in USA, but when we willby in UE, they will cost more than there). And for the last, the first prioryty of UE is to be better than USA, but they cant by better in economy, when they are usingo methods of Marx & Lenin, so they will try to be better in war....

    Hihnt Sith Warrior Inquisitor of Brotherhood of the Sith
  5. Twinnie

    Twinnie Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Jan 5, 2001
    Hi and welcome on the boards, Hihnt =)

    You seem to have a very negative opinion of the EU, and none of the things I might say here will change that, but let me explain my opinion :

    The original aim of the EU was not really an economic one, as it was said before, and not at all warrior one ; the economic union was a way to avoid new wars between the European countries.
    Now, you're not enterly wrong when you talk about the EU desire to overcome the USA in terms of economy, but that's a lot more than that ! it's not the only aim of the EU...

    The reason why I support EU is because it helps European ppl to meet and to discover each others. I don't know anything about corruption, for the good reason that I have never stepped into the EU government ; nor have you, right ? you just express what you've been told or what you've heard from medias.

    I don't know either about the economic methods employed, still I don't think we just follow blindly the ideas of two men who lived in another time and whose ideals proved to be utopia.

    And one thing I'm sure of, is that there is no rivality between the USA and the EU in terms of war. The EU was founded to avoid war, why would it try to becaome a military power now ? we don't even have a common army !

    I really hope you will change your mind some day Hihnt =)
  6. Hihnt

    Hihnt Jedi Youngling

    May 9, 2001
    If UE isint in state of military competition with the USA, then why EU wants to make the new military organistaion, that will double NATO?

    About the corruption, I will only ask you a question: Isint strange that president of the Ecuropean Comission (I dont now the wright english name of this, lets say European Goverment) is giving money dentist (husband of president) for text about AIDS?

    And next thing against the EU, that I havent mentioned before is that, the EU is like Oceania from Orwells 1984. The location chips in teh mobile phones? For what hell ? Who need them? And if you destroy it, you will break the law.

    Hihnt, Sith Warrior Inquisitor from Brotherhood of the Sith
  7. Yar_Kaii

    Yar_Kaii Jedi Padawan star 4

    Dec 8, 2000
    hi there,

    i guess the EU is all about P-O-W-E-R! the politicians don´t care about an exchange of culture etc.
    i hope the EU and especially the Euro will exist, but i have my doubts...

    i guess one great danger is that the national politicians always could blame Brussel´s decisions. the have somebody who is guilty in the eyes of the public and the country itself must not change their way of ruling. so they don´t get the problem and don´t try to solve it.

    It´s hard to imagine that ~one~ government should rule some many different countries.

    But i hope that the future will show that the people of the EU countries understand the real core and the real attidude of the EU as many of you said already.

    WE must keep the EU alive and not the economy-straighted, long-debating polticians.
  8. Lordban

    Lordban Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Nov 9, 2000
    Why does EU want a European defense ?
    Well, a question in the very same tone would be "Why do USA feel the need for a NMD ?"

    -> Because no one likes someone to have control over them through force means. NATO is, like it or not, a USA puppet, USA use NATO to have military bases in almost all countries that have joined NATO but no country that's part of NATO has bases in the USA. Strange, ain't it ?

    About the corruption : isn't it strange that this is only an example underlining a global rule among the power circles that no one will ever willingly admit when it does not serve their cause ?

    The location chips in the mobile phones ? Well, there are the same all over the world, and if there are some top-notch mobile phone producers in the EU there are too in Japan and USA. And Japanese and American cell phones all have those location chips. It's been twenty years since it's easy to spot this kind of comms, it's not a rule about to change now.

    About the SW books costing the same as in USA : you will notice that USA customers don't pay for the shipment costs to bring the books overseas. You do, and you pay the same. Aren't profit margins and taxes weighing more in the USA than they do in Poland ? They are about the same in EU countries ; the prices are higher thanks to shipment costs or translation costs, depending on the language you'll be reading the book in.

    The first priority of Europe being better than the USA ? Well, it's perfectly human. Everyone wants to be at the top, no matter whether they realise the fact or they try to hide it from their own consciousnesses. But to say that EU is employing Marxist / Leninist methods, I'll say either you have had an overdose of propaganda or that you see what your already made opinion allows you to see. Please excuse me for this rather blunt sentence, but it's the only way I can imagine you may have such misplaced, extremist conceptions of the EU.

    Just my two cents.
  9. anya Skywalker

    anya Skywalker Jedi Master star 4

    Jun 14, 2000
    I think that Ban explained it quite well, and a lot better than could, so I'll just agree with his explanation.
  10. Hihnt

    Hihnt Jedi Youngling

    May 9, 2001
    Lordban, you misanderstud me. SW books printed in my country cost, the same prcie as in the USA (at USA market). But if Poland gets the EU, the prcie will be higher, becose: hiden taxes (like VAT-MWS), taxes on printers, distributors will be higher.

    Why I think, that EU uses Marx/Lenin ideas? Its beacose of economic politic of EU, interference in economy is too big. Subsidizes, goverment care, forcing insurances, national health care etc. etc.

    The location chips, mayby they are in USA or Japan, but you can take them out not breakin the law.

    And another thing, that what German prime minister, and minister of foregin affairs are saying, about the future of EU, is almost the same, what Himmler said about the future after the WW2. Isint this strange?

    Did you read 1984? If you read it, you will see analogies betwen Oceania and EU.
  11. Lordban

    Lordban Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Nov 9, 2000
    On books : if it's the translated books you buy, there's an added cost due to translation, they are practically cheaper than they are in the USA (ie profit margins are lower).

    About the economic policy of the EU : you will notice that the subsidies are, sometimes, really heavily needed (I'm speaking from the POV of UK and France who took a pretty bad beating thanks to Mad Cow crisis, a rough half of our peasants can't make it through this year without any outer help).
    Plus, the subsidies are also needed for another reason, which is the forbidden use of hormones (which btw has lead some American youths on these boards to believe the average 15 kid is 6' tall where the average full-grown, human size has been 5'11" for the 20th century) and hormones would make it much cheaper. They make things much cheaper overseas, if we don't want to be overrun by overseas food and become unable to feed ourselves thanks to economical policies, which means our survival would no longer be ours to control, we have to use countermeasures.

    About the location chips that can legally be removed overseas : wrong answer. It's always possible to spot your mobile phone just because you've got a little SIM card in it that's needed to have a phone number, and your location is guessed through the trace of the waves your phone emits. Impossible to parry through any means short of engineering your own phone for precise purposes with a sophisticated number-cloaking device.

    I don't know what the German ministers did say, so if you could please post the exact quotes it'd be a good thing.

    About the last point, I did read 1984 and I don't see a Big Brother poster watching me by every corner, I am not permanently drowned under an ocean of propaganda that takes from me the very ability to read, I am not threatened just because I don't like my government the way it's run, there's no Ministry of Peace dealing with war nor is there a Ministry of Freedom dealing with enslavement...
    The list goes on, don't worry, a lot of counter-examples proving how much our Europe does not fit Orwell's vision of Oceania, these are the few that instantly came to my mind when I read your sentence.
  12. JediWarrior

    JediWarrior Jedi Knight star 6

    Jun 7, 2000
    I'm entirley against it...but my signature explains all that :)
  13. Twinnie

    Twinnie Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Jan 5, 2001
    ppl from North America don't understand anything about politics anyway :D
  14. Lamja

    Lamja Jedi Youngling star 1

    May 31, 2001

    Uncertain the future of Europe will be !!!


  15. Wolfshead

    Wolfshead Jedi Youngling

    Jun 7, 2001
    Hello there!

    I just read thru all these comments about EU. It seems that there is more people, who support EU. I'm not one of them.

    Well, it's my point of view as a Finn. Finland has always balanced between east and west. While we considered us as final frontier against east, during the cold war, western world saw us as a part of east block.

    Anyway, my point is that Finland is giving some of her sovereignity to EU. They give directives and we should live by them?!? They tell how we should deal with our agriculture, social security etc.

    Seriously, who cares how curvy cucumbers are? There really is some directives about shape of cucumbers and sizes of strawberries in EU. Things that work in Northern Europe doesn't necessary work in Southern Europe and vice versa. It's way too bureaucratic system.

    And what about that travelling from Brussels to Strasbourgh back and forth? Every week European Comission packs their things and move. It's not very logical and it costs millions for us, we pay tax for our governments and they pay for EU membership.

    Why European Comission's sessions are secret? They aren't open for public, why not? I don't know how it's in other countries, but in Finland, you can walk into the parliament house and listen minsters and parliamentarist.

    Big brother is watching?!? Hard to say, who are they? And why? Leading cell phone company must be Nokia (Ok, I said that, cause it's Finnish...), but are they using that information or are they selling it to someone?!? Your ISP can see every website you visit, if they want, but what's the use? Hmm... this is getting bit 'X-Fileish' and I'm getting paranoid.

    About European Defence Forces, they just elected Finnish general for the head of European Defence Comission. He is possed to prepare European Peacecore. So there are good aspects as well.

    Anyway, I'm glad to be Finnish and European. After all, we have long and interesting history (esp. medieval times) and who knows what future will bring to us?

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