some nice offical stuff from wotc

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/article/sw20050519a

We've got stats for ventress, durge, quigon, and maul.

 

Woaw do these ever suck!

No Force Strike or Force stealth for Asajj?
No way Qui-Gon is THAT powerful!
And Maul not having Fear... what? Thats his whole thing!
And not giving him any Lightsaber defense feats is just plain wrong!

The Durge stats are cool though. But would've thought he'd be stronger.

 

I think it's cool that they are adding some stuff for the d20 game, but i preffer my homebrew stats.

 

Personally, I think the stats for the minatures and the stats for the RPG should be treated as two completely different things, with one not being compatible with the other.

 

I think it's cool that they are adding some stuff for the d20 game, but i preffer my homebrew stats.

I feel the same way. The stats from the "Official updated character thread" are MUCH better.

 

Wizzards of the coast needs to hire us.

 

Wizzards of the coast needs to hire us.

We are the chosen ones... We will bring game-balance... Hire us!

 

let's send it to Moridin

 

Qui-Gon was a respected Jedi master, the greatest swordsman in the Republic, and someone Yoda could could have learned from. So, I'm sorry if I don't concur Qui-Gon is too powerful...

E_S

 

Qui-Gon was a respected Jedi master, the greatest swordsman in the Republic, and someone Yoda could could have learned from. So, I'm sorry if I don't concur Qui-Gon is too powerful...

What are you sorry about?
If you think Qui-Gon Jinn is the best swordsman in the Republic it's clear that you don't really know what you are talking about and therefor I couldn't care less about what you concur or not.
Just because Qui-Gon teaches Yoda a power it doesn't mean that he's more powerful. Just different. And that power isn't even represented in his stats.

These stats suck!

 

We have a tag-team match it seems. In one corner, we have, describing Qui-Gon's swordsmanship ability The Phantom Menace novel and assorted official publications. Backing that up, we have Yoda's offical and scripted reverence for Qui-Gon's mastery of the Force.

Against this formidable team, we have conjecture and witless petulance.

My money is on the thing with wits.

But, since you're so wonderful, perhaps you could provide - consistent with all the source material used by WotC - better stats?

E_S

 

Woaw... Thats was really unfunny dude!
Show me where is says in the Phantom Menace that Qui-GOn Jinn is the best Lightsaber wielder in the Republic.

And even if it had said that, it still wouldn't be canon. Lucas said that Sidious and Yoda are the top dogs.

Qui-Gon is good. Very good infact. But not the best or most powerful.


Here are, from my point of view, better stats!

Qui-Gon Jinn: Male Human Jedi Guardian 10/Jedi Master 5; Init +2 (Dex); Defense 22 (+10 class, +2 Dex); Spd 10 m; VP/WP 97/12; Atk +16/+11/+5 melee (1d3+1, unarmed) or +18/+13/+8* melee (5d8+1/19-20, lightsaber) or +17/+12/+7 ranged; SQ Deflect (defense +3, attack -4, extend defense and attack), Force secrets (Affect Mind, Battlemind), block; SV Fort +11, Ref +12, Will +12; SZ M; FP 11; DSP 0; Rep +6; Str 13, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 17, Cha 15.
Equipment: Lightsaber, Jedi robes, utility belt, comlink, aquata breather.
*Qui-Gon Jinn has constructed his own lightsaber.
Skill: Balance +6, Bluff +7, Computer Use +5, Craft (lightsaber) +7, Diplomacy +12, Gather Information +6, Jump +9, Knowledge (Coruscant) +7, Knowledge (Jedi lore) +13, Read/Write Basic, Sense Motive +7, Speak Basic, Speak Cerean, Speak Gran, Speak Shyriiwook, Spot +7, Treat Injury +9, Tumble +8.
Force Skills: Affect Mind +15, Battlemind +12, Empathy +9, Enhance Ability +8, Force Defense +9, Force Strike +8, Heal Another +9, Move Object +13, See Force +12.
Feats: Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Exotic Weapon (lightsaber), Force-Sensitive, Headstrong, Quick Draw, Weapon Finesse (lightsaber), Weapon Group Proficiencies (blaster pistols, simple weapons).
Force Feats: Alter, Burst of Speed, Control, Force Mind, Force Mastery, Knight Defense, Lightsaber Defense, Master Defense, Sense.

 

And even if it had said that, it still wouldn't be canon. Lucas said that Sidious and Yoda are the top dogs.

Mate, I'm not living at home so I don't have my books with me overseas. Look it up in your copy.

So Lucas writes in his notes Qui-Gon was amongst the, if not the, greatest bladesbeings; but this is irrelevant because Lucas (I assume we mean the same person) said Yoda and Sidious, 13 years after Qui-Gon's death, are the best bladesbeings...

But otherwise, your stats don't change his swordsmanship significantly; they mainly tone down his ranged attack and play with the skill levels...

The way you were going on, it sounded like they'd overpowered him rather than doing it differently.

E_S

 

Don't know about you guys, but if Im tryin to prove a point i get my own evidence.

yeah qui gon was good, and sure if he's amongst the elite then he's amongst the elite, but then how did he lose to maul and kenobi didnt?

windu and qel droma both woulda taken Qui gon

 

So Lucas writes in his notes Qui-Gon was amongst the, if not the, greatest bladesbeings; but this is irrelevant because Lucas (I assume we mean the same person) said Yoda and Sidious, 13 years after Qui-Gon's death, are the best bladesbeings...

Lucas didn't actually write the Phantom Menace novel.
You're not going to honestly tell me that Qui-Gon is a better saber wielder than Yoda, Mace or Sidious are you?
It all changes as more movies are made.
After the Phantom Menace I thought that Qui-Gon was the best ever.
But after seeing AotC and RotS as well as reading verious novels, I must admit that alot of people are superior to him regarding saber technique.

But otherwise, your stats don't change his swordsmanship significantly; they mainly tone down his ranged attack and play with the skill levels...

Right. I never actually commented on his swordsmanship in the stats. I said no way he was that powerful (force skills). Then someone said he was THE BEST swordfighter. Obviously wrong.
If anything, Dooku would be better. Also Maul, Mace, Yoda and Sidious and Anakin. Arguably also Obi-Wan.

The way you were going on, it sounded like they'd overpowered him rather than doing it differently.

They did overpower his Force skills in my opinion.

 

i just agree with everyone.

 

Qui-Gon was the greatest swordsman in the Order. At this point, Dooku had left, so he doesn't count. As he taught Qui-Gon, it makes sense Dooku being better. Sidious doesn't count, as again, he's not part of the Order. Mace wasn't at Qui-Gon's level when Qui-Gon was alive...but he honed his techniques upon Qui-Gon's death, achieving a level Qui-Gon could never reach. Many Jedi, along with Mace, focused on their saber skills once they learned that the Sith still existed.

The only person this doesn't cover, is Yoda. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to put Yoda in the same category as Mace and the others.

So, when Qui-Gon was alive, he was the greatest saberist of the Jedi Order. This was a time period in which the Sith were believed to no longer exist, and the Galaxy was in a relative state of peace for the most part.

After Qui-Gon's death, things began to go to hell, so the Jedi began to train their martial skills more. Many Jedi would obviously surpass the level of skill Qui-Gon held in the years of peace.

 

Qui-Gon was the greatest swordsman in the Order.

No.

At this point, Dooku had left, so he doesn't count.

Dooku left the Order about 3 month after the events in the Phantom Menace. Swing and a miss, eh?

Mace wasn't at Qui-Gon's level when Qui-Gon was alive...

On the official site it states that the only people to ever best Mace in combat where Dooku and Yoda, and since it also states that Qui-Gon and Mace often sparred against one another I guess we can safely disregard that last comment from you.

Many Jedi, along with Mace, focused on their saber skills once they learned that the Sith still existed.´

Very true.

 

i think the phantom menace novel says that he is the best swordsmen in the order., but kazur makes a valid point.

I think we might be able to explain it in terms of the point of view in the book. If the POV was omnisciant then things are just messed up. If it's obi-wan, he's being biased.

 

Yeah I think it was from Obi-Wan's point of wiew.
And the movie novels are not exactly known for being right.

According to the RotJ novel Owen Lars is Obi-Wans brother fx.

The bottom line is that the movie novels have alot of errors and inconsistencies regarding the overall story as they are written 3-20 years appart, by authors who have no clue about what the next movies will bring.

They are written based on the screenplay and movie. I'm sure Terry Brooks saw Qui-Gon who displayed the most visually impressive display of saber technique in the movies and conclued that Qui-Gon was therefore the best.

But there are tons of post-PM EU material that contridict the claim that Qui-Gon is the top dog.

The point here is that claims and such from earlier books that are contridicted in newer books or even the movies should be considered "wrong".

 

Yeah i've always been a bit weary of novelisation, but i must say that the rots novelisation is excellent. I think it makes the movie make more sense.

 

I like the durge stats. The ventress stats are crap. I wish wotc would look at stats they've already posted before creating new ones (for example kit fisto is miles more powerful then ventress yet assaj whipped his arse in TCD) this is without a doubt wotc greatest failing there NPC stats are just not in line with each other. + ventress not having force steal & force strike is criminal did they not see the CW cartoons. QGJ is all right in my eyes. Maul definitely needs fear + I think he?s under powered (he was a sith lord after all).

 

new dark forces stuff is up.

 

I always figured Qui Gon would be a Consular. He's always talking about the "living force" and just seemed more like the Consular type. Plus, don't consulars use green sabers?

 

The whole saber color thing was just something they did in kotor. Look at luke, he starts with a blue blade (yes i know it's anakin's), and then goes onto use a green one. He certainly is a jedi gaurdian. Perhaps there is some truth to the saber color distinction in the prequils but i doubt it.