Something I have been VERY concerned with as of late...

Discussion in 'Communications' started by The_Sith_Prophet, Apr 17, 2003.

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  1. Daughter_Of_TheForce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2001
    star 4
    So changing a couple of words is going to fix what's allegedly wrong?
  2. The_Sith_Prophet Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2003
    star 3
    I need help scouring the TPM Bashers Sanctuary. The flamming I've seen was on one of the pages, but there's so many it'll take a day to go through them by myself.
  3. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    Keep digging, you'll find flaming. Occasionally, someone comes in, there's a flame, but the mods take care of it. This is no different than the -- oh, 50 billion other threads that have had flaming occur inside of them.
  4. The_Sith_Prophet Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2003
    star 3
    First, decide what is to be done about AoE.
    Disban AoE, or at least restrain it from flamming, and I'll lay off the Basher/Gusher threads. Or, remove the Basher/Gusher threads and repost them in the Star Wars community forum and i'll accept that yo'll do nothing about AoE.

    but at least do one.
    why can't alll the Basher and Gusher threads at least be lumped together in SWC?
  5. GriffZ Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2001
    star 6

    Since I still know next to nothing about these AOE people, and since I'm sure a lot of other people are in the same boat, I wouldn't hold my breadth.

  6. Stridarious Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2002
    star 6
    So changing a couple of words is going to fix what's allegedly wrong?

    Nope, changing one word has proven to only change just that, and will hardy ever change anything more. :)
  7. The_Sith_Prophet Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2003
    star 3
    [edited]

    YJ edit: That wasn't necessary
  8. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    There's a big difference between a movie discussion forum and a community-type forum.

    But not with the threads they have in them.
  9. The_Sith_Prophet Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2003
    star 3
    These are two out of around ten evidence cases where people have used the Basher sanctuary to insult other members:

    Evidence Case 1:

    Link:The Jedi Council member Punisher insults members of the movie Defense Forces.

    What is going on here is clear in this topic. Punisher is taking a swipe at the members of the Defense Forces. What was done? Absolutely nothing. We also had hoth-nudist tell Gushers their vision is just as twisted and offbeat as George Lucas on the next page.

    Evidence Case 2:

    Glorian-Eversea calls people who like the Greedo shoots first scene tasteless

    Calling people tasteless because they form a different opinion to you about a particular scene is cruel and someone would only post it if they wanted to get a response. Glorian-Eversea knew that comment would insult some people and I'm sure somewhere she was insulted.

    Thanks to Jedi-Learners mysteriously locked thread in TPM for this info.

  10. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    What is going on here is clear in this topic. Punisher is taking a swipe at the members of the Defense Forces. What was done? Absolutely nothing. We also had hoth-nudist tell Gushers their vision is just as twisted and offbeat as George Lucas on the next page.

    Did any one tell a mod? Nothing can be done about it if you don't tell a mod. We have mods for a reason. But if we do not let them know about what is going on then those that flame and troll and so on well keep on doing what they are doing.

    You have to tell a mod. They will take care of it. They may ban the person. But they are not going to tell you if the person was banned. Or they may edit out the post and so on. But they can not do any of that if there are not told about it.
  11. The_Sith_Prophet Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2003
    star 3
    According to these sources, a Mod was apparently contacted by someone {no one knows who}, and no action was taken against him because he posted it in the Bashers Sanctuary.

    I may be wrong, as Jedi-Learner only posts what he can find out, but if this is so, perhaps it is time we get new Mods for the boards, and take actions to assure that Mods are impartial to partisan politics.
  12. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    According to these sources, a Mod was apparently contacted by someone {no one knows who}, and no action was taken against him because he posted it in the Bashers Sanctuary.

    I may be wrong, as Jedi-Learner only posts what he can find out, but if this is so, perhaps it is time we get new Mods for the boards, and take actions to assure that Mods are impartial to partisan politics.


    Well if that all we can go by then that's not good enough. Also no the two mods that are there right know are just fine. Also if an out side mod was told about it well they can only do so much.

    Ok right know I think we need both Kadue and Josh to let us know what they think about this. But Josh is the one who really needs to let us know.

    Also Quixotic-Sith is not a bad mod. He is a very good mod. I'm not saying that because he is a mod. I'm saying it because it's true.
  13. GriffZ Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2001
    star 6

    But Josh is the one who really needs to let us know.

    Yeah, that'll happen. [face_laugh]

  14. The_Sith_Prophet Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2003
    star 3
    No, not just those Mods.
    I'm saying the Mods for every board needs to be reviewed.
    This can be considered favoritism amongst the Mods, who should be neutral in all affairs.
    After all, Quixotic sith is a member of the Bashers Sanctuary, which, of course, is why he opposes Jedi_Learner and myself. Now, I'm not trying to bash Quixotic, he does an excellent job, but perhaps Mods should be prevented from joining any groups.
  15. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    but perhaps Mods should be prevented from joining any groups.

    Ok right there that is what I don't want to see happen. That would mean the no mod would be able to join things such as the DL or LS threads and groups.

    They have lifes to. They should be able to join a group if they want to. And being apart of a group will not make that person a bad mod or what ever else it may make them.
  16. GriffZ Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2001
    star 6

    A lot of the mods are already members of these groups before they are actually made mods.

  17. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    Ooo, I've been waiting for this... ;)

    If you want to get into the dirt, we can get into the dirt...

    Ironically, there was a lot of stuff that went down after those postings and in the months later...
    The fight among "Bashers" and "Gushers" over comments made on SouloftheJedi, the PM conflict between Jedi_Learner and other posters, more arguments back and forth...
    Eventually, a few months later I finally snapped and tried to get the DF and Basher Sanctuaries to disband. It didn't do any good.
    I left for a good month or so before I even tried to treat them for what they were.
    Even in the last month there was drama over Anakin_Girl's appearance there.

    The point being, I've realized that they aren't going to go anywhere... unlike most of the people here, I have tried to offer a solution.

    If you want to judge me on past action, all you are doing is wasting your time. Those situations were dealt with, but as I said, some people take things personally and nurse their little grudges.
    Amazingly, it seems as though people have little to do with their time than to rehash the past... it's not worth the trouble, I've been there.

    It's unfortunate that I've had to be placed on the defensive... understand that if those comments from February piss you off, you'd probably get angrier if you go back a lot farther. [face_laugh]
    If you find those comments entertaining... that was the intent at the time! [face_mischief]

    As I said, there's only these solutions to "sanctuaries"...
    lock them, move them or ignore them.

    If you have a problem with me personally, get over it, life's too short!
    BTW, don't play a PM game with me... say it here, people need to know what's going on around here!
  18. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    Let's try to leave the SoulOfTheJedi stuff out of this, please.
  19. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    No offense, but it was that issue that made me angry.
    People get mad because someone "flames" them here, but it's perfectly acceptable for people to make comments that are worse than any "flames" I've seen here, it's okay to PM people and insult them or pick fights with them and then get mad when they insult you in front of everyone.

    That SOTJ site, the back and forth between the two camps, really is pretty damn STUPID when you put it into perspective.
    People get into personal insults over a MOVIE, A MOVIE!
    I swear if some people were face to face, we'd have a shoot-out over a MOVIE!

    I've seen a lot of crap here since '98, people would get cursed at, people would put links to sites that would "insult" people for them, people would get mocked and made fun of...
    I don't sit here taking notes of every stupid thing anyones' done and I don't feel the need to "tattletale" to a Mod to defend my "honor".
    I'd just as soon see people air their issues out in the open instead of the backstabbing and sneaky behavior that goes on and has gone on...

    Everyone that posts here is not PERFECT, they have probably broken a few rules or two and gotten away with it.
    Eventually, their number comes up and they get punished.

    Seems to me this thread is nothing more than showing the blind leading the blind.
    NO ONE wants to take action, they want "old proof", they want to "understand" & "debate", they want to cover their own rears.

    I came here due to a PM from Jedi_Learner and this is what I see... I offered an opinion based on the Basher/Gusher arguments I've seen and taken part in.

    If someone's going to take action then they need to do it NOW!
    It will be to EVERYONES' BENEFIT if this garbage is dealt with...
    I'm sick of being drug into **** that I haven't been involved in for awhile!

    SANCTUARIES/DEFENSE FORCES: Lock them, move them, or ignore them, but everyone needs to quit wasting their time on them if no one's going to do anything!!
  20. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I need help scouring the TPM Bashers Sanctuary. The flamming I've seen was on one of the pages, but there's so many it'll take a day to go through them by myself.

    OK well you may very well find flaming type posts in there. What I doubt is in there are A) posts that flame other USERS and B) the people who post in the Bashers' Sanctuary inciting people to go out and flame on the boards. And this does not show me where the TPMDF thread has been inciting flaming.


    According to these sources, a Mod was apparently contacted by someone {no one knows who}, and no action was taken against him because he posted it in the Bashers Sanctuary.

    I may be wrong, as Jedi-Learner only posts what he can find out, but if this is so, perhaps it is time we get new Mods for the boards, and take actions to assure that Mods are impartial to partisan politics.


    OK so no one knows who was contacted but they know what the Mod said. That right there is fishy. I for one know that when I contact any Mod, I remember who it is. I also know that when I contact Quixotic-Sith, oakessteve, YodaJeff or other Mods with an issue, they ALWAYS respond to me. Your cry for the Mods to be removed and new ones selected is a bit... out there. You don't even post in the TPM FORUM!!!! There are tons of users in the TPM Forum who feel our mods are doing a good job. Why should the administration listen to a few disgruntled users, some of whom don't even POST there, when the majority are happy?

    Oh and as for the partisan politics comment? Get real. This is not the US Congress. This is the TPM forum. Most of the mods I know of do a pretty good job of being objective and not taking sides when they need to. Whether or not they like or hate a given Star Wars film is irrelevant.


    After all, Quixotic sith is a member of the Bashers Sanctuary, which, of course, is why he opposes Jedi_Learner and myself. Now, I'm not trying to bash Quixotic, he does an excellent job, but perhaps Mods should be prevented from joining any groups.

    Quixotic Sith is an excellent mod for the TPM forum. He is one of the people who has been the MOST INSTRUMENTAL in bringing about a lot more harmony and interaction among all the members of the TPM forum. I cannot speak for why he opposes you but I can speak for myself. I oppose you because I think your ideas are way off base. Because you make wild statements and then have no proof to back them up. I oppose you because I have been around that forum for a long time and I spend a lot of my posting time there. I know that forum well and I know a lot of it's users well too. I've seen how much improvement has been made and I've seen a lot of it made BECAUSE of the TPMDF and the Bashers' Sanctuary!!

  21. Captain_Sarcasm Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2003
    star 4
    The_Sith_Prophet, to my recollection I have never contacted/talked/Pm'd/never even had any dealings/associations with you. When you say:

    And I didn't actually join the AoE. I flammed a newbie with some of their members, so I know what they do. I know that a few of their members are AgonyEngine, Revenge ofJohnnyNova, ---X---, and AoE.

    I know we have never asked you to do that, if you flamed a newbie you did so of your own accord. Not because we told you to. Please provide the link in question.
    No members of AoE have ever done anything to you in any way, if we have I am unaware of it. Please provide links before accusing us of trolling/spamming etc....

    When you post things like:


    ROAAAAOOAAAARRRR! AoE!! happens to be bery annoying; and don't act like I'm lying, as you know I'm not; after all, I added your little group once. God, I'm sorry for that.
    I don't happen to have the URL for many examples, but I know that I've seen you people do it often, and it gets annoying.


    People are going to take your word for it. That's not fair IMO as you are not providing proof that that is all we do. You may go through my posts to see if all I do is troll/spam. I can tell you that I have never been banned as well as the majority of our other users. You are planting a preconceived notion in peoples heads so that when they come across us in a thread they are going to think "troll or spammer". This is not right.

    Like I said before, there is a procedure to deal with ANY problem user, be it a AoE member or any regular user on the boards.

    1. PM the respective forum mod and tell them the problem. Most forums have more than one mod so there are multiple choices. In this case members of AoE post 99.9% of the time in the 3SA. If there is a problem where you feel you have been wronged PM

    DarthSapient
    Dehrian
    DarthSinister
    RolandofGilead

    2. If no one addresses the issue to your satisfaction then you PM the next available higher up. Again, in this case DarthSapient is an Administrator and he is fair/impartial so if he makes a decision you should accept it IMO.

    3. If you still feel you have been wronged or that the decisions leading up to this point have been biased you can always PM Kadue. I'm sure the Head Administrator would deal with the problem at hand.

    This is what anyone should do if there is ever a problem with any user regardless of affiliation. Following this procedure is better than posting a thread in Communications and stirring up any unwanted board drama. The best way to go about dealing with a problem user is always with a mod/Admin., not a thread in communications.

    EDIT: Had a mod look over post to see if acceptable.
  22. Captain_Sarcasm Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2003
    star 4
    First, decide what is to be done about AoE.
    Disban AoE, or at least restrain it from flamming, and I'll lay off the Basher/Gusher threads. Or, remove the Basher/Gusher threads and repost them in the Star Wars community forum and i'll accept that yo'll do nothing about AoE.


    Sith_Prophet, I am confused by this statement. Are you saying that if they deal with our group you'll drop your views on the Basher/Gusher threads? :confused:

    I thought that is what the thread was originally supposed to be about. Now it sounds like the Basher/Gusher topic doesn't seem as important anymore.

    EDIT: Had mod look over post to see if acceptable.
  23. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    You want to talk about broad overgeneralizations Quixotic? I give you the Bashers and the Gushers.

    The very existance of these two factions cheapens the debate by grouping people into the "liked the prequels" or "didn't like the prequels" groups.

    The reason those "sanctuaries" were created was in leu of actual moderation. Now that we have people doing a great job with moderating all of the threads here, there is no need for refuge.

    While I don't think negativity should be squelched per say, I don't think we should condone threads that strive only for negativity. If that means the defense force has to go too, then so be it.
  24. Jedi_Learner Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 5
    "People can have personal vendettas and chips on their shoulders."

    Are you accusing me of doing this for personal revenge? I left the Defence Force once because of the Rebellion incident and the next time I left I only told you and two of my friends who post there the truth behind my leaving. Come on, tell the rest why I left. Share that private message with everyone please.

    The Defence Forces are more civilised than the Basher Sanctuary. The Defence Force most likely wouldn't of been created if the Basher Sanctuary was created.

    "Well, I don't encourage gushers to post in the Sanctuary. Indeed, I prefer it when only bashers post there."

    Thanks for proving my point. Remember Strilo when you were told to leave by Darth-Stryphe because you had a different opininon? Did you attack anyone there? Of course you didn't. Remember anakin_girl being told to leave because she had different opinions recently?


    Evidence Case 1:

    Link: The Jedi Council member Punisher insults members of the movie Defence Forces.

    What is going on is clear in this topic. Punisher is taking a swipe at the members of the Defence Forces. What was done? Absolutely nothing was done all because he posted it in the Bashers Sanctuary. We also had hoth-nudist tell Gushers there vision is just as twisted and offbeat as George Lucas on the next page.

    Evidence Case 2:

    Glorian-Eversea calls people who like the Greedo shoots first scene tasteless

    Calling people tasteless because they form a different opinion to you about a particular scene is cruel and someone would only post it if they wanted to get a response. Glorian-Eversea knew that comment would insult some people and I'm sure somewhere she did.

    Now what was done? Did the regular members tell them to be respectful like you say some of them do Quixotic-Sith? Did one of the regulars tell you moderator? I wonder why not? Why do you expect someone like me to blow the whistle for? Do they incourage that sort of behaviour? Were I to post that in the Defence Force Strilo would be all over me. Binary_Sunset didn't seem to care either. What does that tell me? That such awful behaviour against people who like the Prequels or the Special Editions isn't challenged or stopped.


    anidanami124, we don't have Basher Sanctuaries for the Expanded Universe or the Original Trilogy do we? The topics you mention don't cause trouble and the single Basher Sanctuary allows users to spew their hate hiding behind that sanctuary unchallenged. Just look at the example above, I could post several more if you require./>/>
  25. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I'd like everyone to remember one thing about moderating. Many times what happens with a user stays between the user and the mod. They get a PM warning. They could even get banned and you would not know except they are gone for 24 hours. Well big deal, I go without posting here for 24 hours on a regular basis. I've never once been banned. Don't assume that because there is not something posted in the offending thread or post that nothing was done. I myself have made that mistake and was politely corrected by a Mod.


    "People can have personal vendettas and chips on their shoulders."

    Are you accusing me of doing this for personal revenge?


    That comment was not directed at anyone in particular. It was more an attempt to point out that many times, people have their own slant to things. Sometimes that slant is more extreme.


    I left the Defence Force once because of the Rebellion incident and the next time I left I only told you and two of my friends who post there the truth behind my leaving. Come on, tell the rest why I left. Share that private message with everyone please.

    I do not post PMs for people to see at all. Not even with your permission will I do that.


    Remember Strilo when you were told to leave by Darth-Stryphe because you had a different opinion? Did you attack anyone there? Of course you didn't.

    I actually do not recall this. I have asked Darth-Stryphe about this via PM to see if he recalls. What I do know is we just today had a PM conversation thanking each other for what was said in here and commenting on how much we both have done to help make the TPM forum a friendlier place.


    Remember anakin_girl being told to leave because she had different opinions recently?

    That was a complicated issue that involved her intent, her track record on these forums, several warnings from three Mods to BOTH sides of the problem at hand, apologies from both Anakin_Girl and members of the Sanctuary, and a LOT of differing approaches to her being there. In short it is not something that can really be neatly summed up to support your argument. Anything further about this issue should be directed to Quixotic Sith and Oakessteve as they were and are well aware of the issues involved there and they acted on it almost immediately and continued to as the situation unfolded.


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