Something that, I think, makes Episode I better- JUST a theory!

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by Pooja, Jun 17, 2002.

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  1. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    Well if you look at it, Vader is in fact surprised that Obi-Wan has disapeared. He is not sure what hs happened. And Ankin doesn't figure out the ghost thing, he figrues from Obi-Wans disappearance the way to become one with the Force.
  2. NyLonathatep Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 2
    tsk tsk tsk... Qui-Gon Jinn bad... He was one of the few remaining Jedi who weren't corrupt. Dooku was tainted with Sidious's influence... It just doesn't make sense that qui-gon was evil, why'd Maul kill him then ? why would Qui-Gon have wanted Anakin to go off with him, if he was on the bad side ? Because he knew he would turn into Darth Vader? there's absolutely no evidence or Anything that Qui-Gon is evil.
  3. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    Its one of those blind conspiracy theories.

  4. DarthFAUST Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2002
    Everyone is making great points on this subject and to be honest,this is something that never crossed my mind before and it does sound too good to be true considering lucas didnt carry much on to episode 2 from episode 1 aside from the obvious. However,i then remembered a quote from lucas on the official site and i am sure someone already pointed this out but when someone asked the question of why qui gon didn't show up in spirit form, an answer from george lucas said this would be revealed in epiosde 3. Now by this point, there are a LOT more things that people want explained aside from qui gon's death,so why would lucas focus a part of the biggest episode in the saga on qui gon? it is definitely something to think about.
  5. WellKnownCharacter Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 2
    I like Menace but I think that if Qui-Gon does have this thing going on it will make it SO more enjoyable.
    Just imagine sitting in the cinema watching Episode 3 and knowing that all these years there was an ENTIRE subplot running through TPM.
  6. kirby2112 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 2
    Great post Pooja, and great follow ups as well!!! A few thoughts I have about this:

    1. Qui-Gon tried to get Shmi. However, as was stated, no pod is worth two slaves. Watto was pretty final about this, and there was nothing qui-gon could do to change his mind. I think he honestly did want to free shmi, though.

    2. A good point about them running to the ship BEFORE Maul attacked. I wondered this before. Yes, they were going rather briskly through everyting on tatooine, but they weren't RUNNING until that point. I was just thinking, why are they running if there's nothing to run FROM?! That makes me wonder....hmm.....

    3. Jinn assumes that it's a Sith Lord, not because he knows Maul, but because he knows it was trained in the jedi arts, and I'm sure that Jinn could sense The dark side in him. I believe jedi and sith have the power to sense others feelings (of course, the council is being blocked by sidious, but that's another story), so I think Jinn would put two (Jedi arts) and two (Dark side sensed in Maul) together to get four (he's a sith). This, however, still doesn't explain why they were running!!! Ahhh!!!!!!

    4. Just because Qui-Gon's Master (Dooku) joined the "bad" side, doesn't mean Qui-gon did, as well. Yes, it is possible, but I think it's far from definite. It was quite a long time before AOTC that Dooku left the order, and even longer since he trained Qui-Gon. Since he trained him, THEN left the order(I know I'm assuming), I don't think Qui-Gon would be in cahoots with him. (Yes, I HAD to use cahoots!!!). I don't think Qui-Gon kept in touch with Dooku since he left the order. Wouldn't Obi-Wan know. Aren't the padawans supposed to be with their mentors most of the time, which would lead me to believe that Obi-wan would have had SOME idea that he would be talking to Dooku, yet he doesn't.

    I think Qui-Gon was good, which is was helped allow him to have a self after death (although right now only a voice).
  7. Pooja Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 6
    This makes me look at people who think the prequels aren't deep and just sigh.

    Good thoughts, kirby.
  8. starkillah Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 1
    Umm..I'm too lazy to read all the pages before me, but..If Qui-Gon was on the other team...why would we hear his voice telling Anakin "Noooooo!" in AOTC... right before Anakin took out the Tuskins?

    Ahh...blah..I'm sure someone said this before..disregard this post...I'm tired.
  9. DarthSiren Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2002
    star 4
    Starkillah, I had the same question. But after veiwing AOTC for the 9th time last night, I realized that Qui-Gon only says "Anakin, Anakin!" it is someone else's voice that says the "noooo!" Who's? Not sure. But if you listen close enough, the last "nooo!" is not his voice.

    As for this theory, AMEN!!! Can I get a witness? I have been thinking this for a long time. Someone else on here posted a similar theory a while back and got shot down! I don't understand why though. Anyway, I think that this is something that will be revealed in ep3. George might as well confirm it now because this has got to be definate! I mean, it makes so much sense. My question is why would Sideous or Dukoo want Anakin so badly?
  10. Pooja Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 6
    My question is why would Sideous or Dukoo want Anakin so badly?

    Oh, no reason... :p
  11. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    Dooku isn't interested in Anakin, Sidious (or Palpatine) is interested in Ani. And one note when you see Dooku look a little thoughtful or regretful after he has beaten Anakin, keep this in mind....He knows that Anakin is a target of Palpatine's and Dooku has had to harm the Dark Lord's prize ;)

    That "NOooo!" Sounds very much like a digitally altered Obi-Wan from the end of TPM. But its meant to represent Qui-Gon. That is Qui-Gon saying "Noooo" and it will be explained in EP3 i believe.
  12. Adali-Kiri Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2000
    star 4
    It is indeed Qui-Gon screaming "Noooo!". The novel states it, as does Neeson.

    I personally don't believe this theory at all, simply because I can not see any kind of motivation for Qui-Gon to play the game that way. No offense, Pooja. I admire your work. But I think you're sidestepping an important question - why?

    Imo, there is no why ... er, wait ... sorry, Yoda. [face_blush]
    You know what I mean - he doesn't have any reasons.

    And we seem to come back to the fact that Anakin and Qui-Gon are running to the ship. I agree that it's hard to tell why. But it's because of bad editing work, rather than bad intentions on Qui-Gon's part. There is a cut scene just before it, where Qui-Gon destroys a Sith probe droid which is following them. He says it's "unlike anything I've ever seen" and looks around, looking into the Force it seems. THEN they start running to the ship. Which makes a lot of sense. We confused, George bad. It's on the DVD, though.
  13. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    I disagree that its bad editing. In the actual cut of the film we already know Maul has found where the Jedi and the Queen are.
    So using logic and putting 2 & 2 together its obvios when we see Qui-Gon & Anakin running that they know someone is after them.

  14. Adali-Kiri Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2000
    star 4
    Well, how about this? I usually defend Lucas from bashing, [continues in sinister Vader voice:] but now I am the basher...

    I see this point, but even if the audience knows Maul has found them it doesn't explain why Jinn is running. Does he know too? If we assume that he hasn't seen the film, this is just speculation. Imo, this is the only cut scene that would have made the movie better.

    But don't get me wrong - I don't mind it much. I just thought I'd point it out here, because it explains why they are running; it's because something is after them, not because Qui-Gon is in league with the Sith.
  15. isensemuchfearinyou Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2002
    I don't know anything about this Qui-Gon Sifo-Dyas theory but do you really think that if Qui-Gon would be bad he would have trained Obi-Wan, the Jedi who will train Luke, who will be the Empire's end?
    I don't think so.
  16. Harlowe Thrombey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 1999
    star 2
    I think the evidence pointing towards Qui-Gon being consciously evil or with the Sith is very weak and I don't buy it at all. You could just as easily make some left field argument that Jar Jar is in league with the Sith (he did help Sideous in AOTC) or Padme, or frickin' Captain Typho for that matter. Its just based on very weak speculation. Of course, you can't rule it out based on what we've seen so far, but that doesn't mean that the so-called theory holds any water.

    Sure, Vader being Luke's father came out of left-field. But there is absolutely nothing in ANH that suggests this and you can't seriously argue after only seeing Episode IV that Vader is Luke's father. That's why its such a shock, because there was absolutely no clues leading to this. I'm sure somebody will post something rediculous, like if you watch Ben's death scene closely, he looks over at Luke and you can see recognition in his body language.

    I can entertain the argument that Qui-Gon was manipulated in some way to serve Sideous' plan, but so is pretty much everyone else in the PT: the senate, the Jedi and the Jedi Council, Padme, Anakin, frickin' everybody. Trying to argue that Qui-Gon was in a hurry on Tatooine because he was helping the Sith and not because the people of Naboo were dying and the Queen was in grave danger is just as valid as arguing that Jar Jar was being an idiot during the final battle because he wanted his fellow Gungans to die. It just doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.

    Yoda said that now uses lies and deception. The point of the whole Obi-Wan capture scene is that Obi-Wan/the Jedi Council don't know what to believe.

    If QG is revealed as evil in Ep. III, I can accept that, but I don't believe that there any proof or evidence that points to that conclusion at this time.
  17. Pooja Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 6
    If that's your opinion...okay...but sheesh, you presented it rather harshly. And I don't exactly think Qui-Gon is evil either, just being manipulated.

    The point of my theory was to present the fact that maybe there is a lot more going on with Qui-Gon than we know. I'm not etching anything in stone here. It's just what I think.
  18. Chris-Stacina_Rajinn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2002
    star 4
    I don't think Qui-Gon is evil, and in fact I think I'd be kinda upset if I found out he was evil, but I do kind of agree with this theory. I do believe that a lot will be explained in EP III, and that Qui-Gon's part in the saga will be more significant. Who's to say he wasn't in league with Dooku? It doesn't mean he was in league with the sith, it just means that he was under the influence of his former master. (Why else would GL make Dooku Qui's master? It's not like there's going to be some dramatic scene later on where Qui-Gon finds out that his former master is on the dark side!) If Dooku had him convinced that he was doing something to help the republic then I can see him going to any lengths to do so. Qui-Gon's not one to follow the rules, especially when he thinks that there's a possible better way to do something. This doesn't make him evil, it just makes him Qui-Gon.
  19. tabbafett Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2001
    star 2
    I watched The Phantom Menace today and noticed something that, after reading this thread, stood out. When the group goes back to naboo just before the ending battles, Obi-wan goes to Qui-gon to appologize. They of course make up, but in the process Qui-gon tells Obi-wan that he(obi) is a much wiser man than him(quigon). It seems, TO ME, that a line like this is said when the person is in deep regret about their past experiences/choices in life, like he were wishing he were obi-wan and having the chance to start fresh. There were some other things that stuck in my mind like, "Do not defy the council again master." "i shall do what i must obi-wan" or something like that.
    I like this theory and believe that in Ep. III we will find out that qui-gon did some things we won't be too proud of(ordering the clones) and it will be left to the viewer to decide whether or not to forgive him for his actions.
    I remember watching TPM for the first time on the midnight showing and thinking that there had to be more of a purpose for Qui-Gon Jinn. He was basically the main character. And I do not believe his introduction to the saga was to be just Obi-Wan's master.

    Just my opinion I guess.
  20. Leonard_Shelby Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 6
    Good thoughts, tabbafett. :)

    "Now, where was I...?" ?[face_plain] -Lenny
  21. Harlowe Thrombey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 1999
    star 2
    I didn't mean to be harsh, but it did seem like you were harsh to some of the other people you responded to earlier. Like the person who pointed out the scene on the DVD when Qui-Gon cut the Sith probe droid in half. Sorry.

    I do agree that AOTC (and when Ep. III comes out) gives Qui-Gon's character more depth, just hearing other characters talk about him and seeing some of the impact of his actions. Although it wouldn't fit in the story, how cool would it have been to see Qui-Gon in all three of the prequels? He was a great character and I think Liam Neeson did a great job.
  22. Homer Maddux Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 1999
    star 2
    Why were they RUNNING to begin with? I'll tell you why. Qui-Gon KNEW a Sith was after them. He knew- I mean, it's so obvious. Why else would Qui-Gon rush to get off Tatooine?
    It's a deleted scene wherein Qui-Gon sees a probe droid. He chops it in half, but by then it's obvious that there is a sith lord afoot.
    HM :cool:
  23. Pooja Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 6
    I didn't mean to be harsh, but it did seem like you were harsh to some of the other people you responded to earlier. Like the person who pointed out the scene on the DVD when Qui-Gon cut the Sith probe droid in half. Sorry.

    I apologized for saying that. I had forgotten it was shown on the DVD. My friend has had my DVD for months now and I just forgot that it was there. I apologize for that again.

    About that though...I mean...I dont know, it just still seems suspicious. Licas cut the scene, so that must mean he didn't want the audience to see that. Maybe he just filmed it and then decided not to use it, for it would invade on plot points later.

    *shrugs*

    I'm just assuming here folks. Theorizing. Sharing my thoughts. If you don't agree, lol...


    ...I don't blame you. :)
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