SOS - Luke Skywalker - Version 2.0

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Sep 12, 2005.

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  1. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    ChildOfWinds

    We HOPE they're still alive. I just don't understand why they're not doing more if they do exist. And even if we do know that half of the Jedi survived, we still don't know how many they started out with, so we're still in the dark.

    They could be doing things off-screen or just things that aren't of galactic significance. As for the numbers, I think John said the Jedi and Sith each had around 20,000 pre-Ossus.

    Well, KK seems to be taking over just fine now.

    Only because of what Luke was able to do. Luke founded and built the Jedi Order. Kruhk's just one of many other leaders who will never be half the Jedi Luke was.

    I truly hope so. Wasn't this the battle though that made Luke decide he didn't want to be a military commander? So things can't go terribly well.

    I'd imagine the New Republic will defeat Shadowspawn after massive losses on both sides and questionable means with Luke deciding he wants to fight as a Jedi rather than a soldier.

    MasterSkywalker86

    perhaps, perhaps not. I think the OT is far well known than the prequels even with the new generation. Family Guy being proof of this.

    To play Devil's advocate, most of the people who make Family Guy are in their 30s and the generation that has grown up on the Prequels won't be doing anything for awhile.

    rebel_cheese

    Frankly, it pisses me off, because all of you want to render an entire era of Star Wars, an era a LOT of people enjoyed, completely worthless.

    The only way I'd accept that is if Lucas made a third trilogy. Nothing else.


    I was really introduced to the EU by the NJO and I liked it(The Unifying Force would have placed highly on my list for sure.) I've also enjoyed LotF with my only real complaint being Luke's apparent suicidal thoughts. All I'm saying is that forced to choose, I'd rather have more stories about Luke, Leia, and Han than stories about Ben, Jaina, and Jagged. Lucas making a third trilogy would definitely be the best option if they want to reboot.

    I also don't see why it would render them completely worthless. If you enjoyed the story that's all that matters. Most of my favorite Star Wars comics are part of Star Wars Tales. They're not canon, but it doesn't bother me. Resurrection's canonization actually hurt the story for me.
  2. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    SuperSaiyaMan12

    How about mine against JINO? Naruto vs JINO... .

    Caedus ignited his lightsaber, stupidly charging into the small army of Naruto's. When it made contact with a blond, a puff of smoke followed that momentarily blinded him. In frustration, the wannabe Dark Lord tried to slash his way, but he couldn't find the real Naruto. Suddenly, he saw himself surrounded.


    We certainly do have a lot of creative people here! Yet another good writing job!!! Thanks for sharing, SSM!

    Rouge77
    I don't think they are going to allow it, they are just believing that they can't do much about it at the moment. Certainly Wolf is the only Jedi currently we knof of who thinks that the Jedi can really do something about the Sith running around.

    He does seem to be the only one who is behaving as a Jedi; the only one who is trying to do something about the evil that has taken over the galaxy. Maybe that's why he's one of the few characters in Legacy that I like.

    That would be my guess about what where Legacy is heading - if GA fleet even survives the next arc.

    They'd have to do it with military firepower then. But as you said, does the GA even have that much of a Force?? And while Roan Fel does have some Imperial Forces, he doesn't control all of them.


    Because they were not in the original plan. I don't think that Ostrander will give us armies of Jedi when his plot for the series apparently calls for just a handful of Jedi, but as his original plot wasn't that well received when it came to the fate of the Jedi - which lead to the retcon about half o the surviving Jedi having been off from Ossus during the massacre in 130 ABY

    Yes, I think that's plausible. As you said, having a lot of Jedi survivors was probably not in the original plan. So you could be right that the author is writing this story as he would have if there had only been the handful of Jedi survivors that he originally wanted. And yes, maybe a long time down the road when this particular story is finished, maybe we'll finally get to see all of those other Jedi. I hope we get a good explanation for why they didn't help out in the battle against the Sith.


    Nobody145

    And going by the movies and various books, Jedi usually didn't do everything, lots of non-Jedi helped to save the galaxy from evil too. At least they did back in the older Bantam books.

    True! And I have no problem with that. After all, it makes for a more interesting story and makes the problem seem larger when it takes a lot of different people to solve it and win wars. However, when so many Sith are involved, it becomes harder to figure out how non-force sensitives will make a huge difference. As I said above, they probably need to mostly shoot down ships filled with Sith Lords.

    Now if a Jedi isn't on the bridge of a ship, or at the very least in a starfighter nearby, that fleet isn't going to do anything important. Usually Jedi took out the Sith bad guys while others defeated the fleets, but the new Sith Empire is a bit more integrated (between the Sith and normal ships),

    But there are SO many Sith!!! That's why I have a problem taking this story seriously really. I'm having a hard time suspending disbelief that it's possible to defeat 10,000 Sith when TWO were tough enough!


    There are more Jedi out there other than just Wolf. Hosk was on the run, and there are probably more Jedi also just hiding out.

    That would make sense if there is only a handful of Jedi or even a few dozen. But if there are 5,000 of them, you would think they would try to band together to accomplish something instead of hiding.

    Wolf wants Cade to become a Jedi because the last Skywalker (that we know of) is just the rallying point needed to pull the Jedi together, implying that there are still sufficient numbers to pose a threat. Well, hopefully.

    Originally, it seemed to be that they wanted Cade because he was only one of a few surviving Jedi. Cade certainly doesn't seem like the kind
  3. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    Charlemagne19:
    2. The plot of "monster after John Conner" only made it past 2 movies thanks to the simple fact that Terminator-2 had the greatest special effects of all time, Linda Hamilton is my wife despite her not knowing it, and Edward Furlong is the only child character in history not to be annoying (but awesome) in a sci-fi franchise.
    B-but she told me I was her only one! :eek::_| ;)

    I'll take a look into it, Charles.

    J_K_Dart:
    My own contribution: the Doctor (from Doctor Who) verses Darth Caedus.
    That was awesome! :D Any Doc could've been there, too. Bonus points for including reversing the polarity of the neutron flow.

    Wibbly-wobbly, timey-whimey!

    ChildOfWinds:
    But if this is SUCH an unpopular change, maybe they won't keep buying until they're promised a retcon of the retcon?
    The local comic shop has already reported drastic drops in Marvel comics sales.

    He does sound like a hero I could like.
    I love the guy. :D

    Seriously, I wanna write a fic where Ikrit sits down with Luke after waking up and they talk. And Ikrit realizes... 'Holy krif, it's been a while!' And he gets drunk on a thimble-full of Whyren's.

    LOL!

    Heh, I think I'd do a good job with it, too. ;)

    I suppose you're right. And since I'm not planning to watch it anyway, it doesn't really matter.
    Thanks, and good point. I'm fairly sure I won't be watching it either.

    What IS the plot anyway?
    Peter and Mary sell their souls and happiness when Aunt May probably wouldn't want them too?

    So he's an alien?
    Sisko's past is... complex, but he's not an alien. Sort of...

    Oh yes! That's MY vision of Luke's death too. It's what Luke deserves after all he's been through. And I do wish Del Rey would have given Luke and Mara more than one child.
    So do I. It's the least they deserve after saving the galaxy... how many times? And sacrificing so much for others.

    LOL! How dense indeed! wink Good job, Striker!
    Thank you. *Bows* I seem to have started a trend. ;) Care to write one out yourself?

    SuperSaiyaMan12:
    How about mine against JINO? Naruto vs JINO...
    Awesome! Glad to see the Uzamaki Barrage there, too.

    Nobody145:
    Heh, that Janeway vs. JINO was hilarious. Although given that Voygaer became more the "Seven of Nine Show, guest-starring the Voyager crew" by the end of its lifetime, not quite accurate, but that's just my own biased (very low) opinion of that show. Have you done an Archer vs. JINO one yet?
    Thanks. I did have Seven be the one to drop the shields, there. And Archer is this post.

    And going by the movies and various books, Jedi usually didn't do everything, lots of non-Jedi helped to save the galaxy from evil too.
    Yeah, gimme the X-wing books any day!

    Hm, we've done JINO vs. Star Trek captains, who next... Sheridan?
    I'm tempted to drop him into some anime vs... but most of them wouldn't make sense/be known to a lot of you. :(

    Jedi_Ben:
    Sheridan'd simply set off a load of nukes in the area:

    "Sir the small ship is fleeing, we can pursue and destroy!"
    "Do it!"

    A few minutes later...

    "They're trying to lose us in an asteroid field, wait, there's something on the asterioids..."

    BOOM TODAY.

    LOL! Dark Star strategy for the win!

    Once more:
    Hmm, JINO doesn't even match up to Apophis! ;)

    Oh and this one's for Striker to take and really run with: Captain Klag and the IKS Gorkon...
    It shall be done!

    MasterSkywalker86:
    as long as it doesn't involved a talking blob.
    Aww, but I like Waru! ;)

    u liked the movies ?
    1 and 2, yeah. 3.... not so much. Too crowded! Lose the Sandman, and they should've kept Harry alive!

    rebel_cheese:
    I have a few complaints (YJK deserved top 50,
    That would've been nice.

    Shatterpoint, while Top 20, didn't deserve top 10,
    That's what I've heard.

    I think those books deserved their positioning.
    Sorry, but
  4. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4

    sigh the giants are going to the superbowl and my eagles didn't even make it to the playoffs. I hope the Pats win it in Febuary.

    ok so what are people reading SW now a days ? not too much for us big 3 fans but I would like to hear what others are reading.


    Charlemagne

    Sorry, just got done with another argument with someone :blush:

    I was wondering if you were in a debate or something.

    But yes, I think it's two separate universes.

    sort a like a marvel multiverse ? weird move for a movie franchise.

    MS

    To play Devil's advocate, most of the people who make Family Guy are in their 30s and the generation that has grown up on the Prequels won't be doing anything for awhile.

    which one do you think is more memorable though ?

    Child

    Oh, so do *I*, MS! So do *I*! I'd like him to have his unleashed moments not only in the comics, but in the novels too.

    I think I might go the way of JB and stick with the comics. and maybe once in a while if a book comes my way.

    Then why don't we have the results yet?

    dunno, what about when bantam lost the contract were they secretive about it ?

    The problem is, the ARE giving SOME fans what they want. But they are giving those same fans EVERYTHING they want and they're leaving out a large number of us who don't like dark, depressing, LONG, multi-book series. They should publish a variety of different stories in the Post -RotJ timeframe so that everyone can find SOMETHING that they like, instead of having it be all the same, with the same fans happy all the time while others are unhappy all the time.

    right they like to leave the OT fans out by this, which is weird. Right now I would be happy if the big 3 were separated by the new generation at this point so they aren't undermined by their successors at every turn.

    It's not that I don't want to see change. But change just of the sake of change doesn't make any sense. The kind of "change" that the NJO brought was a change away from the feel and spirit of SW. It was also change away from family friendly to overly graphic, dark, and depressing. It wasn't exciting and creative change.

    right, it wasn't really didn't feel like star wars.

    Well, you know it's never going to happen, so at least let us vent, okay? As MS says, we can't lie and say we love something when truthfully we hate it! I'm happy for you that you like the NJO and that it was what you wanted to see happen. Remember that there are others of us who were very disappointed in the NJO and really didn't like it at all. So you shouldn't be angry. You got what you wanted. THose of us who didn't are the ones who have something to be upset about. After all, it's now 27 books that I haven't enjoyed, 18 NJO, 3 DN, and now 6 LotF. (The only exception was TUF.)


    lets see i only enjoyed 4 books. I'm just upset that I wasted so much money on them.

  5. Nobody145 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 4
    Heh, actually I was thinking more like Archer uses time travel to beat JINO, given that Temporal Cold War he was involved in, but that works too. The Klingon one was ok, but too bad Worf couldn't be there. And yeah, Sheridan would just nuke the ship. I don't suppose you're familiar with New Frontier, Striker? Although I lost interest in that series a while ago when they went overboard with some stuff (killing certain characters...).

    And while I never expected grown-up Anakin, Jaina and Jacen to be just like they were when teenagers, I expected some traits to remain. Instead, Jacen spends the first half of the war whining and then he swears off the Force until his mother is almost completely dead. They didn't need to be perfect, but... its not a good sign that they kept getting more annoying as the war went on. I don't mean in the "they're traumatized by war, they're trying to cope" way, I mean Jacen's obsession with philosophy while people are dying. Jaina and Anakin were doing ok, actually, but of course, Anakin wasn't lucky enough to live.

    And now, things have led from whiny Jacen to ok Jacen to amoral Jacen to Sith Lord wannabe Caedus. And I thought the NJO rendered most of the New Republic era moot. I know governments come and go, but... this soon already? For instance, take Thracken Sal-Solo for instance. He's introduced in the Corellian Trilogy and is captured by the Solo children then is put in prison, happy ending. In NJO, he fires Centerpoint, and as he actually acted, he's suddenly a hero in Corellia. He gets stuck with the Peace Brigade for a while, but then he's head of Corellia (the planet) again in LotF, so... that guy just wouldn't die. And when he finally dies, its in a very morally dark way, and Thracken's replacement is... almost exactly the same. It'll all be solved by the end of LotF, but still, that wrecked a lot of nice endings from during the early NR years.

    Still, at least NJO ended on a high note... which then led to Dark Nest and now LotF, and LotF has actually made things worse than NJO, and that's saying something.

    I was never a big NJO fan, but just when you think they can make a worse story, you end up surprised. I don't mind realism, but there's a point where I think Star Wars is overthinking the Force thing. Heck, Tag and Bink put it best. "Light side = good, dark side = bad."
  6. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2005
    star 5
    Just out of idle curiosity, just what kind of "change" would have been acceptable to those of you that clamor for a justifiable perpetuation of the character that has borne this great franchise from inception up to the turn of the century? Would a series in which the players are permanently enshrouded with a shield of irrefutable safety been desirable, or perhaps a compendium of stories that feature our valiant heroes gardening, or perhaps cutting their nails? Or did out want a continuation of the Bantam line, that is, more novels featuring interchangeable warlords and sinister scenery-chewers, with very little real threat posed to our heroes, resulting in the knowledge that they will most certainly make it to the coda intact?
  7. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/darthsanddroids/episodes/0001.html

    BTW, I recommend this webcomic for those who don't understand Dungeons and Dragons. It attempts to show the Star Wars movies through the context of a D&D game. It's actually very funny as they redub the Phantom Menace and show how a typical game might go.
  8. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    MasterSkywalker86

    which one do you think is more memorable though ?

    To me? The OT by far. I'm just not sure that in 30 years there won't be people for whom the Prequels were just as impressionable.
  9. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Or did out want a continuation of the Bantam line, that is, more novels featuring interchangeable warlords and sinister scenery-chewers, with very little real threat posed to our heroes, resulting in the knowledge that they will most certainly make it to the coda intact?

    honestly I dislike both publisher's ideas equally except for a few instances such as (TTT, SQ, SoTE,TUF etc.) Though my preference how to handle a SW series of books is don't stray from the source material too much, yet add a few things the movies only hinted on, also keeping the characters true and having a strong plot is a must. NJO didn't feel like SW to me, except maybe TUF, DN felt like a starship trooper series, and LOTF is a rehash of the prequels. Now I understand change is all fine dandy, but to change for the sake of shaking up the audience isn't a good idea.(look at Spider-man's status quo ) From killing Chewie, Anakin, and Mara can you honestly say that their deaths lived up the hype and made the story more dramatic ?

    But alas perhaps the comics are more my realm.
  10. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    MS86,

    Well the payoff will come, this is Bendis he doesn't fail mostly...

    * True, but I'm just not prepared to keep spending £4 a month when there are other titles to support.

    hardback is nice, but i'm good with PB. I been waiting for this Thor 1st arc to be done already.

    * You may be waiting a while.

    spoiling me for story is usually one of my review methods so go ahead.

    * There were 2 Iron Fists, as Charles said, one died but it's very well done.

    yup, any ideas on Thor's new look of ultimates 3?

    * Then I have to dispute your notion Thor is a fraud, Millar certainly set it up to appear that way in those issues yet where did all those warriors at end come from?

    I think OMD has gone way beyond that mark I also agree with the demand of good storytelling as ppl age. Why do you think I'm sticking with Legacy, SOTE, and SQ from my big EU library ? i threw out the rest.

    * I've a liking for the X-Wing books.

    it cant be that exact

    * It isn't: Mary-Jane apparently whispers something to Mephisto before the deal activates, what it is is unknown - there's the trapdoor.

    FDE,

    Just out of idle curiosity, just what kind of "change" would have been acceptable to those of you that clamor for a justifiable perpetuation of the character that has borne this great franchise from inception up to the turn of the century?

    * Your entry says you've been here since 2005, therefore you know there's no shortage of suggestions.

    Would a series in which the players are permanently enshrouded with a shield of irrefutable safety been desirable, or perhaps a compendium of stories that feature our valiant heroes gardening, or perhaps cutting their nails?

    * See you make the common error of assuming that dislike for NJO-DN-LOTF equals dislike of a bold story when it doesn't. Quite a lot of us were enthusiastic about NJO, it promised much, it sounded exciting, then it didn't deliver. I'm certain you've encountered such stories and probably don't have a high opinion of them so it shouldn't be that hard to get your head around the notion.

    Or did out want a continuation of the Bantam line, that is, more novels featuring interchangeable warlords and sinister scenery-chewers, with very little real threat posed to our heroes, resulting in the knowledge that they will most certainly make it to the coda intact?

    * Ah, but what mode are you reading these stories in? If you adopt a post-modern view that says none of these characters are in danger despite what the authors tells me, what is the point of you reading the story at all? One of the requirements of reading is following the author, you don't switch your brain off but some avenues have to be closed to appreciate a story. Or do you watch ANH and groan when the Death Star ends up on the wrong side of the planet? I mean, it should have come out the right side and blasted the base to ash!

    * Equally, say 1-2 characters die, will that shock you? Or will you simply adopt an attitude that anticipates some deaths so that more are required? Say 10-20?

    * It is pretty much incontestable that SW EU would have done a big storyline in 1999, I'll assume you've seen the discussions of what DHC had been planning. Equally Bantam had the Unknown Regions set up at the end of VOTF. By 1999 there was a clear indication the fanbase was ready for something more, however, I'd argue an invasion of Alien-Predator-Cenobite wannabes wasn't what people had in mind.
  11. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5

    Master_Starwalker


    They could be doing things off-screen or just things that aren't of galactic significance.

    Doing something "offscreen", I guess I could accept. But hiding out or just not getting involved when the galaxy is such a mess and the Sith Lords have run amuck would be very unacceptable. I would definitely want to know why those Jedi were "sitting things out".

    As for the numbers, I think John said the Jedi and Sith each had around 20,000 pre-Ossus.

    SHEESH! Now we've gone to 20,000 SITH???? I thought 10,000 was bad! That was the number I heard bandied about.

    Only because of what Luke was able to do. Luke founded and built the Jedi Order. Kruhk's just one of many other leaders who will never be half the Jedi Luke was.

    Well, the fans seem to think that KK and his hat are the best thing since sliced bread and a whole lot cooler and more competent than Luke. :(.

    I'd imagine the New Republic will defeat Shadowspawn after massive losses on both sides and questionable means with Luke deciding he wants to fight as a Jedi rather than a soldier.

    Probably. I just hope Luke isn't the one who uses the "Questionable means". :(


    RK_Striker_JK_5

    The local comic shop has already reported drastic drops in Marvel comics sales.

    Ah! See! Some people ARE getting smarter! Maybe this will cause that Spiderman author to eventually do that retcon of a retcon that we talked about.

    What IS the plot anyway?
    Peter and Mary sell their souls and happiness when Aunt May probably wouldn't want them too?


    Oh, yes. I had heard that. I thought you were talking about something else.

    Sisko's past is... complex, but he's not an alien. Sort of...

    LOL! How can you be "sort of" not an alien??? ;)

    Thank you. *Bows* I seem to have started a trend. Care to write one out yourself?

    Thanks, but no thanks. I'm not all that terrific at writing dialogue.

    Change is change. It can be good or bad. This was bad change.

    Yes, the NJO was BAD change.

    Niathal. "Did you just... wet yourself?"

    *Ten minutes later, the aft bridge doors explode and ten pissed-off Klingons charge in, led by Klag, son of M'raq*

    Klag. "Where is this pathetic petaQ who calls himself a Sith Lord? I shall send his soul to Gre'thor myself!"

    *JINO is cowering behind a console. "N-not here?"


    LOL!!!


    MasterSkywalker86

    sigh the giants are going to the superbowl and my eagles didn't even make it to the playoffs.

    The poor Browns didn't either, even though they won 10 games this season, which is the best record for them since they were restarted after our original team was sold to Baltimore. I'm not a huge football fan, but it was disappointing anyway.

    ok so what are people reading SW now a days ? not too much for us big 3 fans but I would like to hear what others are reading.

    Well, thanks to the library, I'm still reading LotF. I'm still buying the KotoR comics though.


    I think I might go the way of JB and stick with the comics. and maybe once in a while if a book comes my way.

    More and more people are choosing NOT to buy the Del Rey books. A LOT of fans have left since the beginning of the NJO. Skydancer, the person who originally started this thread, is one of them.

    dunno, what about when bantam lost the contract were they secretive about it ?

    I really don't remember when the announcement was made.

    right they like to leave the OT fans out by this, which is weird. Right now I would be happy if the big 3 were separated by the new generation at this point so they aren't undermined by their successors at every turn.

    I think it would make sense for some of the books to focus on the younger characters and for some to focus on the OT characters.

    right, it wasn't really didn't feel like star wars.

    No, it really didn't.

    lets see i only enjoyed 4 books. I'm just upset that I wasted so much money on them.

    S
  12. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    ChildOfWinds

    Doing something "offscreen", I guess I could accept. But hiding out or just not getting involved when the galaxy is such a mess and the Sith Lords have run amuck would be very unacceptable. I would definitely want to know why those Jedi were "sitting things out".

    My fanon view is that they're split up and unable to contact other Jedi so they're doing things on a smaller scale like fighting crime on some backwater worlds, combating corruption, etc. and waiting for a Jedi like Wolf to create an organized Jedi front.

    SHEESH! Now we've gone to 20,000 SITH???? I thought 10,000 was bad! That was the number I heard bandied about.

    You might be right, I'm not sure at all.

    Well, the fans seem to think that KK and his hat are the best thing since sliced bread and a whole lot cooler and more competent than Luke.

    So? That's their opinion, but it doesn't bother me in the slightest because they're entitled to be wrong. :p

    Probably. I just hope Luke isn't the one who uses the "Questionable means".

    I do too, but I don't think he will as it makes his decision to leave the military have less moral backing. I'm hoping that basically he'll fight the battle as a Jedi General and win, but will be horrified at what some(hopefully Fenn and the Mandos) do during the course of the battle and decides that he can best serve the Jedi and the New Republic as a Jedi Master and not a soldier.
  13. Nobody145 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 4
    There is that last thing Mary-Jane whispered, but... it could've been anything. Heck, it could just be forgotten. The current Marvel Editor probably won't ever allow the marriage retcon to be retconned while he's in charge. There are tons of lingering plot threads that have been collecting dust for decades, that last whisper could be the key to retconning the retconning, but... considering how stupid the whole thing is, I doubt it'll be picked up on anytime this year or next year. The marriage will probably eventually become canon again, but it'll take a few years.

    New Frontier isn't that bad with killing characters. Some leave, some depart, etc., I just got tired of the... insanity. Its a Peter David series, enough said.

    Oh yeah, the Unknown Regions. I forgot about those. At one point, it sounded like there are tons of enemies out there, enough to last at least a dozen wars. Some like the Ssi-ruk are already dangerous enough, so it sounded like it would be enough to last a few novels. Heck, the Dark Nest Trilogy was kinda like that, with how it was kinda in the Unknown Regions. And no, I don't count the Zonoma Sekot search as that just barely scratched the surface of that area. Instead, like JB put it, we had Alien-Predator-Cenobite wannabes invade and they had the special ability to lower almost everybody's inteligence by at least 50%, and those who didn't become dumb were ignored mostly. And the Unknown Regions are still... unknown.

    I'm not saying I want Star Wars to become like Star Trek, where exploration is the main theme (though the Dominion War was pretty good), but I'm not sure if extra-galactic was ever necessary. The whole null-Force thing was interesting, and while it gave the NJO an excuse to (re)straighten out the whole Living/Unifying Force concept, several years of study and medidation by Luke and other Masters probably could've solved the problem too. True, Luke got a lot of Force abilities while in the middle of some life-threatening danger, but while teaching the Solo children, he seemed happy as just the wise older Jedi Master.

    As for Sisko, let's just say... it involves non-linear aliens, so for the aliens (who might be gods, or at least are worshipped by gods by the nearby planet) there is no before, now, or after, there is simply... well, beyond linear comprehension. Essentially, in simple terms, some time travel is involved. I won't say more than that to avoid spoiling.

    And despite Chewbacca's, Anakin's, and Mara's deaths, the Big Three are still intact (physically at least), so its not like that much has changed. True, there are theories that one or two of them will croak in LotF, but those are still just theories. What I hate worse is that there isn't really any successor to the Big Three yet either. Or rather, there isn't anymore viable successor. Luke, Leia and Han should've been in quiet retirement, or at least just managing/administrating/Grandmaster positions by now but they keep having to do everything. Most of the Jedi Council is from Luke's generation, Anakin's dead, Jacen's evil and Jaina... well, there's some hope for her to be the next big Jedi Master (though I still find her Sword of the Jedi title to be silly). And Ben's still too young right now and has barely begun proper Jedi training. So I wouldn't mind new stories, or even some realism, but... the publisher doesn't seem to be doing too good of a job to set up the next generation. The YJKs have mostly faded from sight, with Lowbacca barely mentioned a few times, Tahiri is losing it, Raynar's still going rehabilitation and Jacen's evil. And it'll be a while until Ben's ready to become the next big thing. If they develop him properly.

    And oh yes, continuing the trend of JINO vs. random stuff... JINO vs. Pikachu! (I assume Pikachu is well known enough, and hopefully it won't be too stupid.)

    *Ash Ketchum faces JINO, who is holding his lit lightsaber, on the bridge of the Anakin Solo.*

    Ash: I challenge you to a Pokemon battle!

    JINO: I have no time for this "Pokemon" batttl
  14. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    MasterSkywalker86:
    ok so what are people reading SW now a days ? not too much for us big 3 fans but I would like to hear what others are reading.
    Star Trek, the older SW books, manga. I just finished going through the YJK and falling in love with it all over again. :D

    Nobody145:
    Heh, actually I was thinking more like Archer uses time travel to beat JINO, given that Temporal Cold War he was involved in, but that works too.
    Thanks. That'd be a good idea too, but him getting the four founding Federation members together seemed a cooler idea to use.

    The Klingon one was ok, but too bad Worf couldn't be there.
    Thanks. I like Klag. he kicks butt. :D

    I don't suppose you're familiar with New Frontier, Striker? Although I lost interest in that series a while ago when they went overboard with some stuff (killing certain characters...).
    Yes, I am. Calhoun? I lost interest basically for those reasons, too. It just went over the top.

    And while I never expected grown-up Anakin, Jaina and Jacen to be just like they were when teenagers, I expected some traits to remain.
    Neither did I. I expected growth, not regressing two of them and killing the only one to get decent character development.

    They didn't need to be perfect, but... its not a good sign that they kept getting more annoying as the war went on. I don't mean in the "they're traumatized by war, they're trying to cope" way, I mean Jacen's obsession with philosophy while people are dying. Jaina and Anakin were doing ok, actually, but of course, Anakin wasn't lucky enough to live.
    Yeah, rather pathetic.

    New Frontier isn't that bad with killing characters. Some leave, some depart, etc., I just got tired of the... insanity. Its a Peter David series, enough said.
    Yeah. I heard one of the characters became the ship's... computer? Something like that?

    I'm not saying I want Star Wars to become like Star Trek, where exploration is the main theme (though the Dominion War was pretty good), but I'm not sure if extra-galactic was ever necessary.
    You know, the Vong were pretty... pedantic for being from beyond the galaxy. Humanoid, after all. Two genders...

    What I hate worse is that there isn't really any successor to the Big Three yet either. Or rather, there isn't anymore viable successor.
    Yeah... they kinda shot themselves in the foot there...

    Seruiously, not a single next gen character has what it takes to step up. Not. One.

    And oh yes, continuing the trend of JINO vs. random stuff... JINO vs. Pikachu! (I assume Pikachu is well known enough, and hopefully it won't be too stupid.)
    LOL, that was awesome!

    The_Four_Dot_Elipsis:
    Just out of idle curiosity, just what kind of "change" would have been acceptable to those of you that clamor for a justifiable perpetuation of the character that has borne this great franchise from inception up to the turn of the century?
    Something where they didn't lose half their IQ points every book? Where they learned from past mistakes and acted more mature rather than less mature as time went on?

    Would a series in which the players are permanently enshrouded with a shield of irrefutable safety been desirable, or perhaps a compendium of stories that feature our valiant heroes gardening, or perhaps cutting their nails?
    Anything would've been better than what we got. And the bubble... is NOT a bad thing!

    Or did out want a continuation of the Bantam line, that is, more novels featuring interchangeable warlords and sinister scenery-chewers, with very little real threat posed to our heroes, resulting in the knowledge that they will most certainly make it to the coda intact?
    Yes. Better good old stuff than bad new stuff.

    Jedi_Ben:
    * Your entry says you've been here since 2005, therefore you know there's no shortage of suggestions.'
    And we've all made plenty of them!

    * See you make the common error of assuming that dislike for NJO-DN-LOTF equals dislike of a bold st
  15. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5

    Master_Starwalker

    My fanon view is that they're split up and unable to contact other Jedi so they're doing things on a smaller scale like fighting crime on some backwater worlds, combating corruption, etc.

    That would be good.

    and waiting for a Jedi like Wolf to create an organized Jedi front.

    And Wolf is waiting for Cade, so it looks like everyone will be waiting for a LONG time! ;)

    Well, the fans seem to think that KK and his hat are the best thing since sliced bread and a whole lot cooler and more competent than Luke.

    So? That's their opinion, but it doesn't bother me in the slightest because they're entitled to be wrong.


    LOL! I like that answer! ;)

    I'm hoping that basically he'll fight the battle as a Jedi General and win, but will be horrified at what some(hopefully Fenn and the Mandos) do during the course of the battle and decides that he can best serve the Jedi and the New Republic as a Jedi Master and not a soldier.

    That sounds good to me too.

    Nobody145

    The current Marvel Editor probably won't ever allow the marriage retcon to be retconned while he's in charge.

    :( Then let's hope he isn't in charge long! How can one person make such a monumental decision all by himself? Is he the original author??

    Oh yeah, the Unknown Regions. I forgot about those. At one point, it sounded like there are tons of enemies out there, enough to last at least a dozen wars.

    Yes, Timothy Zahn set up great possibilities in the Unknown Regions at the end of Vision of the Future. Creative authors could have come up with all sorts of great stories from his gift of a place to start many future stories. It's too bad Del Rey just dropped the ball.

    Some like the Ssi-ruk are already dangerous enough, so it sounded like it would be enough to last a few novels.

    More than a few! There were supposed to be a "hundred terrible somethings" out in the Unknown Regions. Enough material for at least a hundred books!

    Heck, the Dark Nest Trilogy was kinda like that, with how it was kinda in the Unknown Regions.

    They didn't utilize the Unknown Regions well at all in the DN trilogy, in my opinion.

    And no, I don't count the Zonoma Sekot search as that just barely scratched the surface of that area.

    I don't count that either.

    Instead, like JB put it, we had Alien-Predator-Cenobite wannabes invade and they had the special ability to lower almost everybody's inteligence by at least 50%, and those who didn't become dumb were ignored mostly. And the Unknown Regions are still... unknown.

    Exactly! It's very disappointing!

    I'm not saying I want Star Wars to become like Star Trek, where exploration is the main theme

    True, but that doesn't mean we can't have some "change of pace" stories that involve exploration. PLUS, exploration of new places could very well lead to finding one or more of those "100 Terrible somethings" that would cause conflict or drama or mysteries or problems. And if WE can see the possibilities for lots of different kinds of stories, surely the experts at creative writing, the authors, should come up with far more.

    The whole null-Force thing was interesting, and while it gave the NJO an excuse to (re)straighten out the whole Living/Unifying Force concept,

    I'm not sure they even accomplished that! ;)

    True, Luke got a lot of Force abilities while in the middle of some life-threatening danger, but while teaching the Solo children, he seemed happy as just the wise older Jedi Master.

    I'd say he was probably happier. And he could have learned those abilities in other ways rather than through danger. While he had more time, he could have experimented more and practiced more and meditated more.

    As for Sisko, let's just say... it involves non-linear aliens, so for the aliens (who might be gods, or at least are worshipped by gods by the nearby planet) there is no before, now, or after, there is simply... well, beyond linear comprehensi
  16. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    ChildOfWinds

    And Wolf is waiting for Cade, so it looks like everyone will be waiting for a LONG time!

    Oh, probably. :p

    That sounds good to me too.

    It seems like it would be the most pulp-like portrayal, so that's what I'm hoping for.
  17. Ulicus Lit'ari

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2005
    star 6
    I've realised how we could get the writers to better respect Luke Skywalker! :eek:

    Show them THIS:
    [image=http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h125/Ulicus/LuketheBadass.jpg]
    This is Luke Skywalker from a Marvel comic, with some edited dialog of my own devising.

    The main problem with Luke is that Mark Hamill looks like a big (well, short) wet blanket of sniffles and tears (except in ESB, where he looks vaguely cool).

    Now, everyone with any sense realises that if "Star Wars actually happened", then Luke Skywalker looks different to Mark Hamill, since Mark Hamill is an Earthborn actor (he is, if you permit a ridiculous turn of phrase, Luke In Name Only aka LINO).

    The films may be the "unfoggiest" window into the Star Wars universe, but they're still reasonably foggy.

    Ergo, Luke actually looks different to LINO. My theory is that if this were brought to the attention of more writers, and if they learned that Luke is actually more akin to Dolph Lundgren in appearance (though perhaps not in height) than Cockknocker, they might be more willing to ascribe to Luke the "badass" traits the character deserves.

    The dude's a bona fide hero. He needs a better visual representation.
  18. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    JB

    * True, but I'm just not prepared to keep spending £4 a month when there are other titles to support.

    well as you said before wait for the TPB, also don't get any tie ins unless it involves someone you care for. besides the TPB won't be out until issues 1-8 are released and Marvel has been known for delays. expect it next year.

    * You may be waiting a while.

    yeah I know issue 6 is pushed back to Febuary, well I hope it arrives late this spring. at least the new marvel select figure will be out by march. :p

    * There were 2 Iron Fists, as Charles said, one died but it's very well done.

    how does this work for the NA ? does Luke know about this ? why did this Rand perish ?


    * Then I have to dispute your notion Thor is a fraud, Millar certainly set it up to appear that way in those issues yet where did all those warriors at end come from?

    whoa there buddy, after Ultimates 2 it's proven that this Thor is also the real deal. My point is why does his powers come from his belt and not from him ? like the 616 version. now with the new belt and traditional hammer, what's your theory ?

    * I've a liking for the X-Wing books.

    hence you liking the rogue squadron games.

    * It isn't: Mary-Jane apparently whispers something to Mephisto before the deal activates, what it is is unknown - there's the trapdoor.

    ah ha, but isn't she asking mephisto to make Peter's life more enjoyable ?

    MS

    To me? The OT by far. I'm just not sure that in 30 years there won't be people for whom the Prequels were just as impressionable.

    I think the OT is much more memorable. Besides ROTS, the only thing the PT I will remember for is double bladed lightsabers and gungans.

    Child

    The poor Browns didn't either, even though they won 10 games this season, which is the best record for them since they were restarted after our original team was sold to Baltimore. I'm not a huge football fan, but it was disappointing anyway.

    yeah i know the feeling, Philly went 9-9 I believe and we didn't even go to the playoffs. at least the Pats will win it this year. I don't like the giants. ;)

    Well, thanks to the library, I'm still reading LotF. I'm still buying the KotoR comics though.

    see comics are good for you ;) as for books I pretend that I don't own 6 books of LOTF.;)

    More and more people are choosing NOT to buy the Del Rey books. A LOT of fans have left since the beginning of the NJO. Skydancer, the person who originally started this thread, is one of them.

    perhaps DR will take a hint ?


    I think it would make sense for some of the books to focus on the younger characters and for some to focus on the OT characters.


    I think it would be best to split apart the kids from the Big 3, only a handful of authors can incorporate the generations together. At this point they might as well have separate novels.

    No, it really didn't.

    it felt like star trek. ;) *ducks*

    So am *I* ! I should have started to use the library a lot sooner!

    why couldn't we be warned any sooner ?????? :_|

    Change that involves character growth rather than character regression, for one thing. Change that involves allowing smart characters to THINK and be resourceful and come up with creative solutions to difficult problems instead of cutting those bright characters down about 100 IQ points and "tying their hands" in silly ways in order to make the contrived plots work. Change that allows Jedi knights to actually be unleashed and use their Force gifts instead of just having the authors talk about them. SHOW US, don't TELL US! Change that allows a Jedi Grandmaster to actually show his wisdom and experience and confidence after about 40 years as a Jedi, instead of having him constantly portrayed as a foolish, indecisive, wimp. Change that allows new characters to work well with existing characters (Masters and apprentices on missions together) and grow and develop instead o
  19. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    MS86,

    well as you said before wait for the TPB, also don't get any tie ins unless it involves someone you care for. besides the TPB won't be out until issues 1-8 are released and Marvel has been known for delays. expect it next year.

    * True, but the artist is Yu who has a rep for being on time. In any case, my dissatisfaction with Marvel's grand plan is akin to my view of DC's Crisis epic - I don't care about it any more, it's gone on too long without a good conlusion or mini-conclusions along the way. An example of how to do an epic storyline? Cap and Iron Fist.

    yeah I know issue 6 is pushed back to Febuary, well I hope it arrives late this spring. at least the new marvel select figure will be out by march.

    * There's that.

    how does this work for the NA ? does Luke know about this ? why did this Rand perish ?

    * It wasn't a Rand, it was a man named Orson Randell who knew Wendall Rand. One thing: The storyline in Immortal Ion Fist is concluding in issue 14, which makes its first story a glorious 16-part epic! And it is indeed epic! Get the TPB if you're interested but be aware it's only the first 6 parts.

    whoa there buddy, after Ultimates 2 it's proven that this Thor is also the real deal. My point is why does his powers come from his belt and not from him ?

    * I see it as likely Odin blocked Thor's powers, gods are known to be unpredictable bastards at times.

    like the 616 version. now with the new belt and traditional hammer, what's your theory ?

    * I'm not following Ultimates 3 I'm afraid, so can't comment.

    hence you liking the rogue squadron games.

    * Well that and the opportunity to: Blow the Death Star, deck a Star Destroyer, do the Endor forest speeder bike run, destroy the Executor, fight the Battle of Endor - but that level is insanely hard.

    ah ha, but isn't she asking mephisto to make Peter's life more enjoyable ?

    * Well, as Nobody said, it could be just about anything but it's certainly a get-out-of-jail-free card.

    * Oh and Marvel's cancelled The Order with issue 10, one of the best titles it had which really smarts.

    JB
  20. Trip Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2003
    star 4
    Needs more VampireMullet.
  21. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Hmmm.... I see we're getting very close to that magical 10,000th post point! :) I hope I get the 9,999th post. I always like the ones where the numbers in each digit are the same. They look pretty cool! ;)

    RK_Striker_JK_5
    I expected growth, not regressing two of them and killing the only one to get decent character development.

    Yes, was it asking too much to DEVELOP them???

    What I hate worse is that there isn't really any successor to the Big Three yet either. Or rather, there isn't anymore viable successor.
    Yeah... they kinda shot themselves in the foot there...


    Oh, yes!!!! And it could have been SO different! And we could have had the older and the younger generations working side by side and helping one another. The development of the relationships would have been great, and we would have gotten to know and respect the younger characters while seeing them interact with the older ones.

    Something where they didn't lose half their IQ points every book? Where they learned from past mistakes and acted more mature rather than less mature as time went on?

    Yes, is that so foreign an idea??

    And the bubble... is NOT a bad thing!

    Not at all! I hate worrying about which character I might lose in the next book! :(

    I was enthusiastic. I raced out and bought VP release day!

    So did *I*! I was so excited and so psyched. WOW! What a HUGE disappointment VP was! Amazingly though things went downhill fast from there, and VP ended up being one of the BETTER NJO books! That tells you a lot about what I thought of most of the rest of them!

    A Prophet-Wormhole Alien-possessed his mother and got her together with his father. So he is... and isn't.

    Well, from what you've just written, it sounds like he's just a normal human whose mother was influenced to do something she probably wouldn't have done by an alien.

    Thanks, but no thanks. I'm not all that terrific at writing dialogue.
    *Ahem* I read that L/M fic you wrote. So I'd protest that.


    Well, thanks for saying that, but I know it was pretty amateur. ;)

    Yeah, people forget that change is... neutral. It is simply different from what came before. It can be good OR bad.

    Exactly! And if the change is going to be bad, you're better off NOT making the change at all, in my opinion!

    It's rather lazy, actually. Sometimes death is the natural end expected end of a character's arc. And sometimes it's an excuse for 'OMG'tehdramaaaaaaaaa!!11!!!'

    Yes, I've seen it used as an excuse for drama far too often.

    Change that involves character growth rather than character regression, for one thing.
    All of that... said it better than I could've.


    Thanks, Striker, but I'd say you said it very well.

    And does a character HAVE to die for the reader to "get" that there is danger???
    I never thought so. I was always wondering, 'How are they gonna get out of this?'


    Exactly!

    Master_Starwalker

    It seems like it would be the most pulp-like portrayal, so that's what I'm hoping for.

    Same here!

    Ulicus

    This is Luke Skywalker from a Marvel comic, with some edited dialog of my own devising. The main problem with Luke is that Mark Hamill looks like a big (well, short) wet blanket of sniffles and tears (except in ESB, where he looks vaguely cool).

    I guess I disagree. I like the kind of vulnerable, compassionate look in an heroic character. And I would say that Luke looked VERY COOL in RotJ in the fight on Jabba's sail barge and in the lightsaber duel with his father. It's the combination of "farmboy" and Jedi Master that I find very appealing. I really LIKE the image we already have for Luke. I don't think we need a new one.

    The dude's a bona fide hero. He needs a better visual representation.


    I agree that Luke's a "bona fide" hero. But I like the package he already comes in, thanks! ;)

    MasterSkywalker86

    see comics are good for you as for books I pretend t
  22. Ulicus Lit'ari

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2005
    star 6
    Superman was a farmboy. [face_mischief]

    I couldn't find Luke remotely cool in RotJ, because... well, he just looked a bit odd. And He-Man can look vulnerable and compassionate.

    Granted, when he does, he's usually in a pink leotard or whatever... but....

    Ah, fair dos. :)

    Just throwing it out there.
  23. kddidit Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2003
    star 1
    Just wanted to de-lurk to say "Hiya" and make a few quick comments.

    Charlemagne:
    Hope your dad is well on the road to a complete recovery.

    Child of Winds, I?ve noticed in past communications that we?re of similar taste. I very much enjoyed Sisko and the gang on DS9, for whatever that?s worth.

    It?s all very depressing isn?t it??? It completely negates all of the struggles and sacrifices of the Big Three and their friends and family.? Child of Winds

    That?s why I quit reading stories set in my favorite universe. I've put books down feeling disappointed and cheated, even if I rent from the library. It's expensive, certainly, but it meant more to me than a transaction. Ultimately, this isn't the SW I grew up with and I just don't relate to the characters in the NJO and LOTF. This sounds so silly, but I?ve not watched the OT because I?m worried that the hurt I still feel after reading NJO and bits of LOTF will somehow bruise my OT viewing enjoyment. I gotta say "Thanks" to SSM, Dart and Striker for the humorous takes on the Death of JINO. That Kirk dialogue was spot on! Nobody145: I always liked Pikachu and wanted one of my own!

    I?m also bummed to hear about the Spiderman retcon. I always liked Peter/Spiderman and MJ as a couple. I like to think she whispered, "Amor Vincit Omnia".

    MS86
    asks what we?re reading nowadays. I?ve been re-reading Bujold, Poe and, for something completely different ; ), Suze Orman?s Road to Wealth.

    If your team has been eliminated from the Superbowl: Baseball Spring Training starts next month.

    Hope springs eternal, eventually. Right?
  24. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Ulicus

    Superman was a farmboy.

    I guess I like farmboys turned superheroes. ;)

    I couldn't find Luke remotely cool in RotJ, because... well, he just looked a bit odd.

    Odd??? How so??

    kddidit

    Just wanted to de-lurk to say "Hiya" and make a few quick comments.

    KD!!!! [:D] [:D] Hi! Happy New Year!

    Charlemagne: Hope your dad is well on the road to a complete recovery.

    I'll second that! How IS your father doing, C???

    Child of Winds, I?ve noticed in past communications that we?re of similar taste. I very much enjoyed Sisko and the gang on DS9, for whatever that?s worth.

    Thanks! I'll have to give it a try one of these days!

    That?s why I quit reading stories set in my favorite universe. I've put books down feeling disappointed and cheated, even if I rent from the library. Ultimately, this isn't the SW I grew up with and I just don't relate to the characters in the NJO and LOTF.

    I know. It definitely ISN'T the SW we used to know and love. It's really sad. :(

    This sounds so silly, but I?ve not watched the OT because I?m worried that the hurt I still feel after reading NJO and bits of LOTF will somehow bruise my OT viewing enjoyment.

    I can actually understand that. Maybe with the passage of a little more time, that may change. I haven't watched the films in a very long time either. I'm not really sure why.

    MS86 asks what we?re reading nowadays. I?ve been re-reading Bujold, Poe and, for something completely different ; ), Suze Orman?s Road to Wealth.

    I just finished The Kite Runner. It's not my usual kind of reading material, but my cousin recommended it, and I did find it to be an excellent, though dark story. It's ending was hopeful and it's theme was redemption.

    Did you read the next book in Bujold's knife series? I didn't really like the first one, so I didn't read the next. I just LOVE her Myles Vorkosigan books though.

    If your team has been eliminated from the Superbowl: Baseball Spring Training starts next month.

    Hey! That's true! Our Indians were eliminated during the American League playoffs this past year. Hopefully, they'll do better this year!

    Hope springs eternal, eventually. Right?

    Edit: YAY! I got post 9,999! :)
  25. Trip Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2003
    star 4
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