Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    May the Force be with you MS! And all you others who're hit. Looking forward to hearing from you again!
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  2. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    I agree that it would be more accepted if the ladies did it. But I'm not sure it's becasue women are seen more vicious - I think rather the opposite; women are considered at least socially weaker and thus, when one "kicks butt" it nowadays resukts in big hurrahs from the audience.I think Stig Larsson's Salandcer character is a perfect example of this - that women are nowadays allowed to do anything - also things men can't! Parsonally I'm not ecited about it, feminist though I insist callng myself o_O But we do agree that it has something to do with the expectations to the character, fair or not, realistic or not. And it touches what you've pointed out so many times - that heoes are generally doomed harsher, no matter what. Either they should have acted differently or they should have acted earlier - you name it.

    I actually agree with you - it just seems I mind the actual novels less.

    I knew you'd approve of that! ;) My son actually asked me who's my fav hero in Avengers (he just got it on DVD) and I just blurted out Captain America, realizing it was true. I hadn't even thought about it, but he's by far the most interesting, I think.


    Yess!!! Second that!!! :D

    You know what - I just ordered Vector Prime from the library in audio version. I decided to start from scrath - but as it's uneralistic I'll read it again at the mo, I might as well hear it while I drive to work! After a few months, I might be able to give updated, fresh opinions. And waterproof, of course ;) - I'll simply find out the truth about NJO's Force philosophy. And each and every audiobook will ahev to be ordered from England, it seems [face_batting] Heh - I usually never like causing other people problems, but librarians that sit and tell me something can't be done - they bring out the bloodthirst in me! [face_devil]

    But shortly to your comment - you'r probably right that the huuuge problem with NJO is that they accepted the PT's take on things and tried to make sense of it - and it got all messed up. Luceno, as I understadn it, brought the feet's of the Force back to the ground. But we still have the mess i NJO. :(

    I think it's an important point. Particularly when accusing Luke for the conditions of the Order in the start of DNT.

    Actually, we don't know that. That they worked fine, I mean. That time period hasn't been shown this far. ;)
    Last edited by kataja, Oct 29, 2012
  3. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Where violence is concerned I invariably end up looking at The Usual Suspects: It comes down to being willing to do what the other person isn't. In this respect it is very easy for someone to smack me into the ground because I'm no good at violence to any degree, reason I'm good with but most people aren't reasonable, or don't wish to heed it.

    I'm not sure what counts as feminist any more, although I have seen Sarah Lund be described as such, in that she's a flawed hero who's allowed to be. That has been a criterion of mine - does this character have flaws but not so many or of such depth that they out-weigh her appealing elements? You only have to look at the women in Eddings or Jordan to see examples where female characters are more defined negatively. I think that's why I quite like B5 so much, Ivanova is wonderfully flawed but she never loses the audience's backing, there's also Corwin, who knows how to work for her. I still have a great deal of liking for Guy Gavriel Kay's creation Kimberley Ford, though it's probably 20 years since I read Fionavar Tapestry. And then there's Donaldson's Linden Avery.
    Last edited by Jedi Ben, Oct 29, 2012
  4. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Kataja
    May the Force be with you MS! And all you others who're hit. Looking forward to hearing from you again!



    thanks hopefully at the worst we will have just fast winds and some brownouts.




    I actually agree with you - it just seems I mind the actual novels less.


    Luke being the "possible" Dark Man was a silly proposal yet with the ambiguity surrounding the current books the idea stay around longer than intended. Can we not deal with another Luke "comes perilously close to the DS" for the next 15 years?:rolleyes:



    I knew you'd approve of that! ;) My son actually asked me who's my fav hero in Avengers (he just got it on DVD) and I just blurted out Captain America, realizing it was true. I hadn't even thought about it, but he's by far the most interesting, I think.


    lol, there's a reason why those two are my favorite characters. Their morality, idealism, their tenacity, their willpower, humility, and purity make them refreshing and relevant when dealing with current events are bleak. Basically they still see good in people despite their own experiences and continue on resonate well with me. They both don't hold any hateful thoughts to the enemy but they'll do what they have to do in order to keep the world or galaxy safe. I look forward to the Cap sequel, and I think Child would enjoy both Captain America: The First Avenger and The Avengers.



    Yess!!! Second that!!! :D


    personally I want a solo series with Luke starting out as a knight and continuing as a young jedi master(NR era), a trilogy/series of Luke and Mara during their marriage and before(from NR to Legacy), a Mara Funeral book(proper) with Luke, Ben, and Talon starring, a Luke and Leia story(NR-Legacy), a Luke and Han story(NR-Legacy), and a Luke and Lando story(NR-Legacy).
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Oct 29, 2012
  5. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Actually, if someone doesn't enjoy Avengers I'm inclined to think there must be something seriously wrong with them! It's 2.5 hours of A+ popcorn fun! (And I'm not a fan of actual popcorn either!)
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  6. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    I didn't say that I thought they were either. Actually I didn't. That's why they annoyed me so when pushed on like the way they were!

    I've read that much. Problem is, that nothing of that necessarily is contradicting what happens in DNT start, as I see it. The trick will always be in the degree. Yes, there is a DS - but to what degree does it form a threat? If anger doesn't automatically lead to danger - when when does it? No, end doesn't justify the means - but to which extent does it? The latter is very much what the so called "torture scene" is about. And I know that you right now have a row of answers ready - but my point is, that the answers will always be individual - and even more so in an Order where each and every Jedi is responsible for seeking guidance from the Force.

    My question to you is - how much didn't you see it because TUF managed to re-establish your trust? 'Trust' here being the key-word. You fear what will happen in Crucible because you have no trust in Denning. Much of where our opinions disagree is because I see the glass in LOF and FOTJ half full, you see it near empty - again a question of goodwill - which comes from trust.

    And to your comment above - key here is "the rest of the Jedi Order". We know what Jacen meant. We know what Zonama Sekot meant - and no doubt the opinions of a living planet must have had an impact on the Jedi. We also know what Luke meant - but how firm is his grip on the order in NJO? Is he at all trying to hold a grip - or is he aiming for the opposite - that the Jedi must find their own solutions. I believe it was the latter.

    I will better when I've lstened to those audionbooks ;) (see comment to MS) But I remember NJO Luke as generally very holding back. Kyp is out fighting Vong, Luke insist an waiting and securing the Jedi. He takes Force naps, gets tired, worries about his wife, has sex with his wife and everytime his nephew Jacen coems up with an new idea he suggests caution. In general, he advices caution every time soemthing new is brought up to the table. Finally he goes on a several month long trip in a space ship with the more adult part of his family in order to find some mythical planet , because he can't get the war effort to succeed.
    Am I exaggerating? Definitely! But this is how a Luke hater could see it -a nd what he/she could argue for.

    I meant the long track of Force philosophy babble

    You put lot of trust in that readers agree with Luke's opinion. I agree with him myself - but I wasn't even sure the writer did the same.

    They try to diminish the pain, which isn't exactly the same thing. And we don't know what the Killick got afterwards.

    Then again, you insist on that Luke made a vengeance killing. Which I don't think he did - as I've also explained several times. So what we disagree abut isn't the principal idea - it's about how to understand what happens.

    And I've heard quite a few people call Luke 'whiny' in the movies...
  7. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    I believe feminism is simply the belief women should be equal to men. There's no need for it to be anything greater. Unfortunately, Lazy Writers often treat it so women must be nothing BUT action heroines to be women and x10 tougher than male characters.

    Mara Jade and Jainia (when written right) were good balances but Jaina sort of lost momentum when her only plotline was the "will they or won't they" with Jag.
  8. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    And this definitely is a very sensible change! I guss the only problem is taht it forgets the Force :p

    Very interesting. It makes much sense, but you definitely need a deeper understanding in order for it to make sense!

    I try very hard not to keep track - there are too many battling philosophies there too. I do it out of old fashionned gratitude - I recognie that some women before my time who f´called themselves that, made some important work for me to be able to dress as I want, talk as I feel and to be able to drink a whole peint beer and more if taht's what I want ;)

    Seems like a good criterion to me - the burden of being perfect is definetely imprisoning! I think nits interesting, though, taht men had akind of liberation from this with the creation of the anti-hero - but this matter has never really progressed since. The anti-hero still prevails (as Charlemagne points out in his essay) - but I wonder if there isn't a budding interest in the hero's return too? F.ex I can't imagine a Captain America movie before now. I could be nice if these + antithesis could develop to a synthesis... = a hero who's human but still worthy of ideals...
    Last edited by kataja, Oct 29, 2012
  9. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    I guess the main Q Charles becomes: Equality as defined by what? That aside, I agree with your diagnosis.

    Now, for all her status as a pioneering feminist character, I'd likely see Leia in ANH as being overly aggressive, adversarial and contemptous of others, certainly all very aristocratic but not exactly the traits of someone I'd be inclined to back or wish to work for. It's interesting that by ESB/ROTJ, she's allowed to show why she has the rank of diplomat, as she's nowhere near as snarling in the latter two movies.
    Last edited by Jedi Ben, Oct 29, 2012
  10. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Equality as defined by the fact you don't have to ask yourself why a female is doing this, I think is pretty much the modern turn. The short version, in my view, is "As soon as its no longer strange for a woman to be headlining a Star Wars series" will be when it's the case in SW.

    In Leia's case, the fact she's aggressive, commanding, and scrappy are all elements unexpected from a classical Princess.

    Padme, sadly, gets to be stereotypical in many respects.
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  11. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Yeah... I wonder how many people who got their joy of the books destroyed by that tenascious idea... [face_thinking]

    I so agree! And Child - I really think so too - you would like it!

    Yessness!!!!! =D=^:)^


    Actuallt, my husband didn't enjoy it but walked out in 2/3ds of the film. :p Then again, there is so much wrong with him. I know all about it! 8-}[face_love]

    That's agood way to put it. Equal. Not the same. But your're right - it's like women shuld compensate for not havign been cool for so long that they have to exaggurate everything.

    Worth - at least. Then again, we have a very confused notion of what worth is, in general.

    [face_laugh] That's a very good point. I've actually never seen her as that diplomatic :pBut I do remember the joy of seeing a heroine who didn't need to please anyone, who spoke her mind and who still came out as feminine and (still very important) - desirable. Alas - the last aspect will always remain to soem extent.
  12. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    I think Padme gets hampered in the Prequels a lot by first being forced by plot fiat to understand Anakin's massacre and second to be killed by domestic violence/losing the will to live. It seems a poor way to end such a major female character in the series.

    One of my major thoughts about the Prequels were they needed two more main characters, one a man and one a woman who weren't Jedi. Not necessarily Han Solo but someone with the Everyman/woman perspective.
  13. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Jar Jar could be thought of as "the everyman in The Phantom Menace".
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  14. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Like your definitions! ;)

    Yes, Leia broke many stereotypes. Of course she isn't as buttkicking as modern heroines - then again, she is herself - even the buttkicker has turned into a new stereotype and most of the actresses that play the part are chosen for the shape of their butt rather than on what they add to the role.

    Padme was a very strange case. Natalie Portman who is such a good actress - yet she turns out to be so meak, playing out all the clichées. If anyone, she'd need a SOS thread! On the other hadn - she is definitely flawed...[face_thinking]

    I agree! Particularly the 'dying of broken heart' part was bad! :rolleyes:I think Luke would have found away to understand her - but I think Leia would have cringed!
    And yes, in general, I think the prequels suffered of to much Jedi focus. Why, TCW suffer of the same - and so has the post-PT novels in general. I'd love to see Luke interact with the Rogues again - my fav moment in LOTF was the awesome scene on Endor in Fury!

    [face_laugh]
    Then again - what a terrible thought! [face_sick]




    And MS - hope you're still hanging in there!!![:D]
    Last edited by kataja, Oct 29, 2012
  15. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Padme does get to rescue herself in the arena, in AoTC. And take Gunray hostage, in TPM.
  16. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    I prefer to think of him as the allegedly funny alien. As for Padme, she did get numerous good moments as well as bad ones.So she's not a horrible character and many young girls liked her, it's just she could have been written better (like Anakin).

    Ahsoka actually is a character I wish had been in the Prequels because she's a nice contrast to Padme and evens out the male-to-female ratio a bit.

    My take? A work is not feminist when the heroes consist of 7 dudes and 1 girl.
    Last edited by Charlemagne19, Oct 29, 2012
  17. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    1. Heh, yeah, it's a big part of the problem. As is that I have those accursed L'Oreal adverts in my head now thanks to your post! ;)

    2. Would you say that the attitude of not needing or desiring to please anyone would be classed as typical alpha male behavuiour? (Yeah, I'm going somewhere with this, but I need to know I'm using the right terms.)
  18. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    MasterSkywalker86:

    Stay safe and dry, MS! Even though I live far from the coast, in the Great Lakes area, we too are going to be affected by Sandy. We're going to be having sustained winds of 40+ mph, and gusts of 60+ for the next 24 hours, and we've already gotten several inches of rain with a lot more expected in the next 48 hours. We're expecting a lot of flooding and power outages due to falling trees. If you're near the coast, I'm sure you'll be affected even more.



    I hope you're right about that!

    *I* don't either, but as someone... TB, I think?... said, Del Rey has been trying to find a way to tone down Luke's Force powers for a while. This would be the way that they could permanently do it, by taking away some of Luke's Force ability and making Luke less than he was, and thus, keep him from amazing Force feats. :mad:





    Kataja;;;
    The problem is though, K, that I *don't* think we're getting lots of different choices so that everyone finds something he/she likes. As you know, I keep complaining about what we've been getting in the post-RotJ timeline, because all we keep getting is the dark, dreary, negative, pessimistic, "realistic" stories. We don't get anymore uplifting, positive, hopeful stories anymore where the heroes get true, satisfying victories. It's because I'm not getting anything that *I* like and want to read about that I've been so annoyed with the books that we've been getting and so negative about them. Believe me, I wish that we were getting some books in this era that I *could* enjoy! I would be positively BUBBLING with joy and enthusiasm!

    We are in agreement about this!







    More later.....
    Last edited by ChildOfWinds, Oct 29, 2012
  19. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Yep, guilty as charged!

    The info came from the giant round-robin in the back of TUF's PB version.

    and;
    The complaints were about the "same-old, same-old" plotlines in the Bantam era; which probably brought in things like ysalamiri as a counterbalance.
  20. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Jedi Ben :
    I definitely agree, especially when it seemed that the authors kept retconning their own story and changing things midstream, for example, all of the differing reasons for Jacen going Sith and exactly who/what Abeloth was.

    Above all, I hate the fact that Luke and the other good guys don't seem to be allowed to have a true victory anymore. Their "victories mainly seem to consist of surviving the fight. We don't seem to have really joyful, satisfying "endings" anymore.




    MasterSkywalker86:
    Well, if Luke, Leia, and Han "pass the baton", then they won't be major players in the stories anymore. And I still can't think of anyone who could take Luke's place as Jedi Grandmaster at this point, nor can I really see Luke "retiring". As I keep saying, Luke isn't Yoda. He's an action-oriented kind of guy and I can't see him sit back and do nothing while watching others go off into danger.


    I agree. Luke was kind of cold and calculating and darkish in Invincible.


    Let's hope not!



    Exactly!

    I hope he'll go on many adventures!


    Yes!


    More tomorrow....
  21. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    I hope everyone is still allright and well and soon able to join us again!

    True - she has good moments too. And it's not like I mind a woman being "traditonal" either - she doesn't have to kick butt at all. But there were really a lot of terrible clichées too - and scenes even such a good actress like NP couldn't save! Well, this isn't a Padme thread so let her RIP

    [face_laugh][face_devil]


    [face_thinking] Not necessarily. I'd say that the need to please it typical of most women - but that doesn't necesarily lead to the opposite. I think it's part of the anti-hero type Han Solo behaviour to wear an attitude that pretends he doesn't wish to please anyone - but I don't think that is very alpha male. I think it's often confused to alpha male, though. Linking this discussion back to Luke is actually very interesting 'cos he's definitely a man who wants to please others. By nature he is this way - but as his story arch develops, he's paying a hight price for it as first he chooses the way of the Jedi that definitely doesn't please people but instead often puts him in the role of the odd wizard - and later he realizes that people will never see him as he is but will always look at him in awe or in fear - never as who he is; which is kind of the worst thing to happen to someone who tries to live up to expectations. I think this latter is what happens to him in the start of BFC, and I think itøs god this is brought up as it would definitely bug someone with Luke's personality deeply. And I think for Luke's stoyrarch, that it's worth recognizing that he only rises to full feathered alpha-male after he recognized he can't please every one and start focusing on what he needs to do.

    So, answer to your question; needing to please probably isn't compatible with being alpha-male. Not desiring to please is quite another thing and it has nothing to do with being an alpha male or not.

    Where were you going with this? [face_batting]


    I hope you guys are all right!


    Del Rey did it openly around NJO. But really it was something that started already back in the Bantam era. See below:



    Exactly. I have that RR too. It goes way back and seems to constitute a basics problme for the authors. But in the RR they talk specifically about prolems cause in the Bantam era. Luceno (or Shapiro) doesn't specify, though, whether wounding Luke with the anfi-staff was part of the solution. The thing is, though, that since DNT, Luke hasn't been weakened....

    I know this hasn't been the case while we got these multi-novel stories. But I remain optimistic that things migth change now.

    This, however, might be a problem harder to solve since I think your view on whatever comes in Luke's time will be shadowed by Legacy... :(

    Second that!!! :D
  22. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    COW,


    I think part of the problem is DR has taken an angle that individuals can only do so much to change a galaxy, which is fine, but they've kept the dysfunctional institutions, which make the heroes' efforts look foolish. I mean, you only have to look at the amount of purges tried on the Jedi - Vong, Jacen, Daala - and then if they're not under external attack, the Jedi are settling disagreements by lightsaber duels to the death. The institutions need to work!

    That whenever I tend to come across a supposed "feminist" position, it invariably ends up advocating that women act more like the ******** variety of blokes! No other behaviour seems to get a look in. Then again, it's just now occurred to me that, as abused terms go, patriarchy has to be near the top of the list as few men are really in a position of power sufficient to qualify. Still, who cares about such details?

    For myself, I'm not that assertive and am never that certain as to where the line is between confidence and arrogance, so tend to err on the side of caution so to speak.

    re: Those interview excerpts

    Luceno's is of far more interest, as it makes a good point. Sadly, Shapiro's still comes across as lunacy and I have to wonder where the "complaints" drew their basis from - as Luke certainly isn't running around the galaxy solving everything by himself with ease!
    Last edited by Jedi Ben, Oct 30, 2012
  23. HandofSkywalker86 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2004
    star 4
    Hey guys,

    I've been gone for a long time, but I just wanted to stop by and see what the general sentiment towards the Disney acquisition of LucasFilms, and the reports that there will be an Episode VII is around here.

    To stay on topic, I gotta say that after all these years Luke still remains one f my favorite heroes in all of fiction. I don't know that anything will ever change that.
  24. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    First of all, I was extremely lucky with Sandy. It's still raining, but things have calmed down. I personally had no downed trees, damage to my house, or flooding. It was very scary watching those trees shaking in 60 + mph winds and driving rains though, and my heart goes out to all those who were so tragically affected by this monster storm, suffering terrible loss and damage.


    HandofSkywalker86:
    Welcome back!

    Well, I do have concerns, particularly about how this will affect Luke. I have no idea when these would be set, but I think probably 20 years or more after RotJ. I would think they might completely ignore the EU and just link them to the six prior films. Even if Luke only has a cameo appearance, I do hope we'll find that he hasn't been a hermit all his life. I'm hoping we'll find that he still does get to have a family of his own.

    But I'm also excited. I have always wanted to see the sequel films and was disappointed that we got the prequels instead. My preference would be to have some adventure films about Luke and his Jedi Order, though I doubt that we would be lucky enough to get that. Believe it or not, I'd actually rather get something totally new rather then an adaptation of some of the books or comics, unless they would turn the Thrawn Trilogy into films. That could be really good, I think. Another possibility that I wouldn't mind would be for them to just start over after the events of VotF. That way, Luke would definitely be set up with Mara.

    But if we can't have either of those scenerios, I'd rather start from scratch from the end of RotJ. I know a lot of people wouldn't like that but I just don't see how they could really use everything that's been done so far in the SWEU, especially since there are a whole lot of people who have never even read any or very much of the EU. They would be at quite a disadvantage.

    I suppose they could start after the events of Crucible, but then we'd be stuck with thousands of Sith and Abeloth in the galaxy, and if we're starting fresh, I'd really love to get rid of both.

    So, I'm pretty sure that we will lose at least some of the EU. I certainly wouldn't be disappointed about losing anything from NJO onward. I would be disappointed to lose the Thrawn trilogy and duology and some of the other book stories. I would especially hate to lose Mara. But those other stories and characters would still be out there and they could be an alternate timeline, so it's not like any of it will really be gone.


    I feel the same way about that, HoS!








    Tim Battershell:
    And, sadly, they seem to be going back to that yet again. :(:mad:


    But that was a very false claim. If you go through the Bantam SW books, you'll find that there are really only a handful of times when Luke did anything truly all that powerful. That's an EU myth, as I've said before. There were plenty of times when I felt Luke needed to use the Force MORE, and I wanted to scream, "Use the Force, Luke!"

    I think there's actually more "same old, same old" since Del Rey got the license! All we seem to get lately is Sith, Sith, and more Sith.... with Abeloth thrown in.








    kataja:
    I pretty much agree that Luke would like to please others. But, as you said, he sometimes (even often) makes decisions that he knows won't be pleasing, for example, declining Ben's offer to go with him to Alderaan, at first; going against Yoda and Ben's desire for him to stay on Dagobah and complete his training; going to face his father even though Leia didn't want him to do it, etc. Yet, if he thinks it's the right thing to do, he will do it even if it means he displeases others.



    I think that was the plan. That's one thing though that I was glad that Denning *did* ignore from TUF when he wrote TJK. Sadly though, now he seems to be reversing that decision by giving Luke this new injury in Apocalypse. :(


    I wouldn't say that, K. He *was* weakened by doubt in DNT, and thus lost several battles with Lomi plo.

    Luke was weakened in LotF by the vengeance killing. Because of that, Luke doubted himself and his ability to stay on the Light side. That's why he couldn't go to face Jacen. Luke was also injured multiple times in LotF. In his battles with Lumiya he lost a hand (again) and was badly beaten up. He also was a huge mess after his fight with Jacen and needed to recuperate.

    In FotJ, Luke was weakened in what he could do by being exiled and thus, unable to be involved with the Jedi. He nearly died in Abyss during the time that he went mind-walking and was still in that weakened condition in the next book. That's why he had trouble defeating just one rancor, while a few Sith managed to defeat two dozen of them plus their rancors. Luke also just dueled one Sith...Galaan... to pretty much a draw.

    Luke also was weakened in all of his fights with Abeloth, and at the end of the series, he suffered that possibly debilitating, permanent injury. :mad:

    I kept hoping that would be true after every series. Now, it may be too late. We've already heard that Luke will be "passing the baton" after Crucible. AND, now that we know that there will be more SW films and a new owner, Luke may very well die in Crucible. Now, I know that it has been said that this won't be the last adventure of the Big Three, but they just might mean that there will be other books about them that will take place in earlier time periods.



    It would, yes. But it still would be nice to have some real, honest-to-goodness, satisfying victories for Luke at the end of SW books even if Legacy still looms in the future.

    More tomorrow....
    MasterSkywalker86 likes this.
  25. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    With yesterday's news in mind, I'm wondering if the surprise appearance of Krayt in Apocalypse foreshadows a shift of Legacy futher 'up-when'.

    It would allow for appearances by the OT Big 3 (4?) cast at more-or-less their current ages and appearance in the ST without any chance of running over Legacy -- and would allow the Galaxy and Jedi to 'forget' Krayt etc. even more.

    The PT Jedi characters could have been in Force Hibernation (as per Ikrit), so I don't think there would be insurmountable continuity problems there.

    Abeloth (if she returned to her planet, which seems quite possible) has now lost a good part of her food-source (the Mindwalkers) so could take quite a time for (in Lord of the Rings speak) 'the shadow, after a defeat and a respite, taking form and growing again'.

    Of course, this would depend on how much information TD was given before or during him working on Apocalypse - but books aren't written in a few days.

    Just thinking out loud!
    Last edited by Tim Battershell, Oct 31, 2012