Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    NJO high points for Luke also includes DT1, BP, SBS - well part of. BP is one of the best for Luke.
  2. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    true....but that's what 4 moments out of 18-19 books ?
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Nov 3, 2012
  3. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Quality, not quantity Padawan and I'd argue some of the things BP did have not been done since.
    kataja likes this.
  4. Dawud786 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2006
    star 4
    I think overall the NJO was really good for Luke. Aside from his indecisiveness early on. It's after the NJO that things get hairy.

    TCW has been a slippery slope, and the ST could be too. I'm not particularly keen on them discarding things they don't like and keeping what they do like... because that could easily just keep happening. Someone comes along and says "oh, you know what? I don't like Dark Empire... let's over-ride that one." It's only a matter of time before someone doesn't like TTT and it's gone. The only thing in DE I want fixed is EE, and I just want that expanded and written better. So I'd much rather have the EU preserved in its entirety and made fully official and eliminate the need for tiered canon.
  5. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    it's Jedi Master ser, respect the rank not the man Grand Master :p although 4 good moments for one character out of an entire series is still too few and far in between if you ask me.
  6. Dawud786 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2006
    star 4
    They are high points, not the only good moments. I'm not sure anyone else has as many high points in NJO as Luke.
  7. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Except BP did this:

    Had Luke as teaching, the sequence with the Chandra-fan student is excellent
    Had him issuing a killer put-down to a Rodian senator that also reflected his outlook perfectly: "All worlds are my concern."
    Had him find out exactly how he is seen by the average person when he comms the liner Mara's on-board

    All are extremely smart and never happened again! Quite criminal really but there you go.
  8. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    I think that the Mission to Coruscant was another high point - as well as for us nearly seeing more of Luke than is seemly!
  9. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    It's probably near a decade since I read Enemy Lines Tim! Care to refresh my memory?
  10. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    bump
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Nov 3, 2012
  11. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    He gets into a digester tank to open up a turbolift - and forgets to tell the bacteria that his clothes aren't food either!
  12. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    if you're talking about when he went to confront Lord Nyax it was Tahiri who seem to excel in the battle as well as give the final blow to Irek Ismarmen.
  13. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4

    how about Jacen or Anakin ? I don't think anyone has gotten as many high points as Luke did in his entire career but let's face it aside of Onslaught and bit here and there in SbS we didn't see Luke do a whole lot that we know he was truly capable of save TUF. Invasion seems to rectify that the problem but the issue still lies with the direction of the NJO books and Force exhaustion.

    Now I don't want to get into a debate of the importance/relevance of NJO, it succeeded in some ways and in others it could have done much better such as the handling of both the Old and New generations as a team. But I can't really recommend many NJO books to Luke fans aside of two.
  14. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    [face_laugh]

    I can imagine! Great to have you back and hear all's well! I heard you had snow too. Stupid storm that come in winter!

    Good points - though I desperately hope you're wrong! On the other hand - if the film takes place where the canon is now (which would fit with Mark Hamill's age) - Mara's dead anyway and they can let new facts be revealed by and by. Also, fan wanting to know how Luke and Mara met would be a good thing, wouldn't it - from an economical POV - it would lead the casual fan straight to the expanded universe - and in the long run srrat a broader demand to see that part of timeline filmed too...

    Besides, if there's to be a Skywalker in the films, he's gotta be the offspring of Luke (or?) and you'll need a mother anyway. Better usea charcater at least some know and that you can refer to, instead of letting Luke hook up with some new casual lady...

    And I wasn't around... But I can see this is going to be a long wait... :p

    I don't think so. I have this feeling they'll focus on a new cast from the start, even if they'll probably bring in Mark and Carrie. To have 65 year old stars who everyone remembers form their prime is risky, to say the least. It's another thng with say Bruce Willis who's aged over time and remarkably well. But if they make a clean start, they can carry on and on with that new cast. Plus they can always go back and animate what happened in between. As mucha s I'd love to see Luke on screen, I think it would be smarter for them to start from somehwre fresh.

    I hope they preserve the EU, but I don't believe they'll film it. But I think Luke will be in the new film as that Obi-Wan figure, passing on some important wisdom to the next generation. I hope for him to appear wise and the respected head of the order he created. Thus, I hope he has created the new order and not just disappeared to contemplate into some desert after ROTJ. also hope he got married to Mara and that they got at least Ben. Also, I'd really, realyl like to see him kick some butt with the Force! [face_blush] Like Mark Hamill said - he just got his lisence to kill in ROTJ - but we never saw him use it. I'd like to see him use it, even if it was just once!

    This is all true. And it's possible everything will be rebooted. Still, Lucas did occationally come with termss to the EU - and one of those was, they couldn't kill Luke. So whil he wasn't following the novels, he had pkans of something! And he didnøt want the EU to come in his way. I think it's reasonabel to expect he's given a few more instructions, like 'leave the galaxy more or less intact but the time Luke's 65 '- or sim.


    This, I think is pretty certain. It's Disney's trademark, after all. That said, i think the thrird trilogy was planned to be lighter too.

    Agreed! BP was awesome, at least Luke and Mara-wise!!!

    Now, that's an EU moment I'd like to see in screen [face_batting]
    But I'm not sure poor Mark will be so eager... :p
  15. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Kataja

    I can imagine! Great to have you back and hear all's well! I heard you had snow too. Stupid storm that come in winter!

    [:D] thankfully we didn't get any snow yet. It might come next week but hopefully we will be ready.

    I don't think so. I have this feeling they'll focus on a new cast from the start, even if they'll probably bring in Mark and Carrie. To have 65 year old stars who everyone remembers form their prime is risky, to say the least. It's another thng with say Bruce Willis who's aged over time and remarkably well. But if they make a clean start, they can carry on and on with that new cast. Plus they can always go back and animate what happened in between. As mucha s I'd love to see Luke on screen, I think it would be smarter for them to start from somehwre fresh.

    I think definitive new cast but for the OT characters, Hamill and Fisher as you mention haven't aged well. But I imagine the new OT cast will be 40's-50's, since actors specifically in action roles around those ages have tracked well. Liam Neeson and Robert Downey Jr for instance. I don't think it will be Luke's story like the OT but I think he'll be prominent in the three movies. At least from the sources I'm hearing.
  16. Dawud786 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2006
    star 4
    You know, as far as the marriage rule for Jedi goes... I could easily see the average movie goer thinking of that rule as stupid and a big part of the reason why Anakin went Sith in the first place. He couldn't be himself and love the woman he loved because of the Jedi Order's hidebound rules. I think most people can relate to that on a level that would make them just as pissed off at the Jedi Council as Anakin was. I could easily see the average movie goer totally accepting that that's just not part of the Jedi Way anymore, especially since ROTS treats us to the two remaining Jedi actively deciding against doing the usual Jedi move of cloistering young children from infancy into Jedi monasticism. Surely that would have been more efficient as far as training, but it would have left them just as disconnected and clueless about the struggles of the everyman as the Jedi were prior to and during the Clone Wars. A significant flaw in their Order, including the further excising of the Jedi from normal sentient experience by way of the celibate life.

    Plus, Luke is starting from scratch. He's already shown a proclivity for doing things differently that Obi-Wan or Yoda wanted him to... and because of that, he saved the freaking galaxy from Sith rule. Why would he go all monastic when he could still be a Jedi and have a family life? No one would have trouble accepting a Skywalker getting married and making it work.
    Last edited by Dawud786, Nov 3, 2012
  17. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    I agree - particularly as every Jedi is likely to have a pet 'attachment' to something - Mace to the Republic and one (from Jedi vs Sith sourcebook) to the Force itself!
    lukemaraben and Dawud786 like this.
  18. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Tim Battershell:
    But lots of Sith on the loose would be a very dangerous thing. ... It would be very difficult for Luke and his small Order to deal with them... even with the help of the GA fleet, I think... It would be far easier if most of them were on a few very huge ships, but I don't think that's the way things are post Apocalypse.








    kataja:
    You're probably right... But after the disappointing prequels, I hope they will hit a "homerun" with the ST.


    Those films could be really wonderful!



    Why *does* that make you think of Crucible, K??? Do you think that the new film story would involve something that takes place in Crucible? Something involving Luke and Leia?



    So will *I*! At the very least, Luke should have some deceased, much-loved wife. I definitely *do* want Luke to be or have been happily married and have a family. Even if she had a different name, I could always think of her as being Mara....


    Well, that would certainly help if we saw all of Luke's loved ones welcoming him to the next life...


    And every government as corrupt and failing and not cooperating with the good guys!





    I just don't think that Del Rey would have known about the new films soon enough to purposely include something to make the books coordinate with the upcoming films. Jennifer Heddle doesn't seem to know what's going to happen with the EU because of this new announcement. If she doesn't know, then the authors wouldn't have known either, right?







    MasterSkywalker86 :
    It's pretty amazing, isn't it???? I'm very glad that you're okay after that hurricane. I was beginning to worry about you when several days passed with no posts from you.

    I would love to see Luke on the big screen again, but I'm not so sure that I want to see Joss Whedon at the helm. I fear we might be headed into dark territory again with him. I really want some these new films to be at least somewhat "lighter" than the prequels were.

    Yes! For the first time in a LONG time, I'm excited and hopeful about SW... and Luke...again! :)

    I think this depends on when these films take place. If they take place within 20 or so years of RotJ, then he couldn't, but if they took place about 30 years later... then he could.Look at how much Obi-wan aged in just 19 years!


    Again, we have NO clue. It depends first of all, on when in the timeline the ST takes place. It also depends on whether Disney wants to incorporate the EU into the new storyline and timeline.

    If I had a choice, I'd like to keep the EU up to and including either VotF or SQ and dump the rest. I really didn't like the stories or Luke's characterizations in most of the books from the NJO onward. Yes, Luke had a great characterization in TUF, but in my opinion, I would be willing to lose that in order to get rid of Luke's terrible characterizations in many of the earlier NJO books, as well as the whole LONG, depressing NJO story, with those Yuuzhan Vong villains that I always hated. PLUS, we'd regain Anakin Solo! I think things really went downhill after he was killed off!

    And there was almost nothing that I would miss about the stories or Luke's characterizations if DN, LotF, and FotJ were suddenly declared Infinities stories.

    But to be honest, I really have a feeling that all of the EU may be overwritten, especially since I heard about that comment about forgetting everything we think we know about Luke's future. That, right there, seems to suggest that the new trilogy will connect with the previous films, but *not* with the EU.







    Jedi Ben:
    I don't know that I would say that anyone is willing to "jettison" the older fans. I think it's probably more that they would hope that their product is so good that it will please everyone and that those who are disappointed by the loss of the EU as canon material, will be willing to accept the EU as a different timeline/alternate universe.







    MasterSkywalker86:
    It *does*, doesn't it???!!!!


    I'd like to see Luke and Mara together too, but I'm not going to get my hopes up about that... at least, not yet.

    I think I would be okay with it too, though, as I said, I'd like to keep TaB and CoPL in too. The rest of the stories haven't been all that good for Luke... Most of them just haven't been all that great as stories either come to think of it.







    wmu'14:
    Well, I'm hoping that rule *doesn't* still hold, I think it was a pretty dumb rule, and we already know that Yoda changed the rule about children being trained as infants and living with the Order, not in families. Some of the things the prequel Jedi were doing could have been improved and changed, and I think the no marriage rule should be one of them. I will be very disappointed if we find that Luke never married and had a family. Besides, I want future films to include Luke's child/children as well as Han and Leia's child/children.


    Then they can go back and discover the EU! ;)







    MasterSkywalker86:
    Thanks for posting that link, MS. It was interesting. We'll see in the future how much was right, I guess.







    JackG :
    As I said above, I wouldn't mind having anything NJO and beyond steamrolled! I don't think Luke was portrayed all that well in most of those stories, and I really didn't like the dark, bleak direction that those stories took the SW universe in. For me, they were very depressing and unsatisfying.

    And I wouldn't mind losing the Legacy comics either. They paint a very dreary, cold, chaotic galaxy in the future, pretty much destroying Luke's legacy. And I can't stand jerky Cade.


    More tomorrow...







    Skaddix:
    That's probably right. There were 19 or 20 years between the first two trilogies.
  19. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
  20. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
  21. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    'New' is a relative term - even the brand-new ANH referenced (the then unfilmed) PT and Clone Wars as part of Luke's, Vader's, Obi-Wan's and the Rebellion's backstory. Also, if the ST is 'entirely new', would there be any real reason to dig into the Holocron since its one and only function seems to be continuity?

    Mortis is a G-Canon TCW creation - not an FotJ one. Installing Luke as 'Keeper of the Balance' (the position Anakin refused) would very likely imortalise him, which might be appealing to GL as he will no longer be in a position to veto Luke getting bumped-off!

    IIRC, it's only the one book - Troy Denning's "Apocalypse" - that even hints about Abeloth being anything more than a one-off Force Entity; something like Waru, in effect. From at least one post in the Lit forum, Leland Chee was alleged to be the conduit for Abeloth's association with the Mortis "Ones", and he was (also allegedly) one of the LFL people 'in the loop' about the sequel film(s), because the Holocron was being referenced.

    Jennifer Heddle is mentioned on the Acknowledgements page "for her contributions to Apocalypse, and her graceful arrival at the end of a long and exciting series"; as is Jason Fry "for our email brainstorming regarding the 'Celestial Overlap' in our two projects - I really wish that chapter had made it into the Essential Guide to Warfare"!....

    I also seem to recall TD having said more about the Mortis issue, somewhere, but I can't recall exactly where at the moment.
  22. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Looks like you got your wish, just not the way you wanted it! I think Lucas, Kennedy, and Hammill will be bringing back the classic Luke Skywalker for one an all in 2015.
  23. Dawud786 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2006
    star 4
    Mortis in Apocalypse stinks of higher ups intervening IMO. And I hated it when I first read it because it is so shoehorned in, it makes some amount of sense because of the nature of Abeloth as an entity but it makes no sense that there are no clues or anything else throughout the rest of the series. Somebody said this is super duper important, and should be included in that storyline at the very last minute... and I think the dangling plot threads are part of that process. At least I want to think that. Because that warms me to the un-necessary sequel trilogy and the fact that Crucible and Sword of the Jedi are coming up leaving a kind perfect place to put the ST in the timeline.

    Denning may have no clue. Heddle may have no clue. Or didn't have a clue when all that went down. But if it's as I think, that Mortis connections came from top down... they could be making the same connections I am, and they can't speak on it because they would not want to jeopardize their jobs.
  24. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Thanks it was pretty hairy, dealing with no heat for the past four days was perhaps the hardest part. Getting gas is near to impossible with the lines and getting food was as much trouble. I'm very thankful to have the power back but things still aren't back to normal. Now apparently I get my wish of the sequel trilogy......didn't I mention that Lucas lies when it comes to making more movies ? :p Although I know he won't be making the new trilogy since he retired but I imagine they refer to him in certain instances.

    have you seen Avengers or Firefly ? the Marvel spectacle prove that movies with humor and a lighter tone can still make a box office, plus the humor. Although I wouldn't mind Joss to be the writer but I think he has his hands tied right now. Perhaps Brad Bird can direct...



    same here :)

    You know if the PT is any indication perhaps 19-20 years later will be the likely scenario. Hamill hasn't aged as gracefully as say Ford, and I doubt he's seeking to reprise his role. I'm more willing to have another actor in the role especially if Obi-wan and Anakin can have two actors in the role. Obi-wan is a special case....blame his wrinkles on the Tatooine suns :p

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/11/01/mark-hamill-talks-star-wars-episode-vii

    see the link on Hamill's thoughts

    I wish they gave us a synopsis, its a safe bet that Luke will be in it but what does it mean about the EU stories we collected over the years ? I'm still planning on buying the TTT but now I don't think I'll buy anymore Del-Rey books due to this announcement.

    SQ would be a good closing point for me too....as I was mentioning to JB and Dawud TUF was the only book that had an unleashed Luke and his characterization down. For the other 18 books I could do without. One fantastic portrayal against 18 mediocre to bad ones doesn't exactly tip the scales. I'm also not a fan of the Vong in the books, their culture/biology got on my nerves. Invasion was the only Vong portrayal I could say I like.



    ditto, as much as I like DN I abhorred the Legacy era aside of a few things.

    I think I have few points they must do in order for me to like Luke's portrayal in the new films

    * Luke needs to retain his characteristics of being the pure hopeful, heroic, humble youth, as well as his wisdom, maturity, and serenity as a jedi master. Luke is no grey anti-hero he's all hero.

    *Luke should be married to Mara Jade, I will not abide him being single in the ST especially if you look at the OT where clearly he'll noticed a beautiful girl when he sees one. I hope Mara will be Luke's one true love.....at this point Zahn's creations/contributions have a good chance of being in the film. As for people who argued about won't casual fans asked "who's the ginger girl on Luke's arm ?" a simple exposition in one scene and few lines could bypass that.

    *Luke should be shown rebuilding the Jedi Order.

    *Most important.....especially to me is we should see Luke demonstrate that Skywalker potential that all the films hinted at. neither the PT or the OT we got to see what Skywalker could do, considering Luke has his father's potential it's time to see this. Talk is cheap, time to show the power that Palpatine craved. ;)


    not only do i have the Captain America sequel and Avengers 2 to look forward to but now Star Wars..... :D



    it's anyone guess at this point but since Mara is very popular in the community I have my fingers crossed.


    agreed although I dunno where I stand in concerns to DE since in a lot of ways it's a sequel trilogy, maybe they adapt a few ideas but unlikely. All the Zahn books and Mindoir seem to be the must have.


    o come on [face_batting] since the Star Trek reboot we now have two Kirks with the new one(Chris Pine) making the role his own. We had 6 Bonds, 5 Batmen(although the last one got it right), not to mention 2 Obi-wans, and at least 4 Anakins. I think the new guy would have his work cut out for him but.....I think it possible that there can be an actor who capture the character.
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Nov 4, 2012
  25. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    I agree. Already Ascension was oddly rushed - and Apocalypse was odd too. I didn't mind it - but I didn't look like anything I'd expected. And the quickness with which Crucible was announced also smells of something being made differently than the original plan. I think it smells: *round Abeloth up, at leats more or less, put in the Mortiss and make the Order able to survive without Luke. Oh, and send Allana back to her mother to free Han & Leia. Then send off the big 3"

    I just went and checked and the EU has stomped in place around 40-44 ABY since 2006 now. And whil I'm sure no one kenw anything back then yet, I can easily see Lucas tell them to hang on where they are for a while - not letting Luke age much more. Before that time, they made timeleaps for every new series but FOTJ was suddenly placed very close to LOTF, only two years later , placing it oddly 43, 5 ABY!!! C'mon - point five???!? Are we stalling or what???

    These would be definte requests. Plus that Luke was portrayed both erergic, powerful, farmboyish and roguish!!! Sorry, but I don'øt see many get away with that...

    And to me, that's too many Bonds and Batmen - the latter I never cared aboout - the former lost his individuality and turned a mass-produced figure years go. ObiWan somehow managed to keep his individuality, probably because we first saw sir Alec pour his charisma into is and then were able to change inot Ewan McGregors also brilliant preformance - and the timeleap made is possible!!! But I'd be very, very worried about nerw castings. I'm already worried about reboots and new plots - the idea of a new casted Luke gives me the shivers!!!

    And truly - this is the SOS therad! We, of all, should be able to see the dangers that lie here!!! I'm not saying it's IMPOSSIBLE - but it's very, very, dangerous ground
    Last edited by kataja, Nov 4, 2012