Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Sadly JM, we're not the entire fanbase - just a small part of it, while another part acts the arse by going on how great it'll be to axe all the stuff we like! :mad: Not cool.

    Re: The Vong

    No, the notion that the Jedi taking the war to the Vong would have resulted in them going dark in great numbers didn't stack up for me. Nor did the idea that the Force-voids mean moral conundrum, the Vong are attacking, killing and torturing NR citizens in millions, that's a no-brainer to respond to. What NJO should have done is had the Jedi confronted by some horrendous choices where they couldn't save everyone due to:

    a) There's only 100 of them, combined with:
    b) Sheer offensive abilities of the Vong

    It would have made for a more understandable schism, with Jedi wishing to save one world over another for competing reasons - each quite valid.

    Had the Vong been fought to extinction, by their own choice - contrary to what that little hippy Jacen thought, it wouldn't have been some grave evil . Tragic? Certainly, but war is the embodiment of making sure your side beats the other side. George Patton was, by all accounts, a hard-arsed bastard but it's hard to argue with him on this point:
    re: Vong biotech

    Biotech may be closer to becoming but organic black hole mines? No. One problem a now long departed poster had with it was there was no structure or limitations applied to it, whatever was needed could be generated without heed to any notion of science or restraint!
    Last edited by Jedi Ben, Nov 5, 2012
  2. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Tim Battershell :
    I guess that reason never worked for me because Luke and the Jedi wouldn't have resorted to using something like Alpha Red to totally genocide the YV. They would put themselves between the YV and innocents and kill only to save others. Even when the battles ended, Luke showed mercy on the surviving YV. Instead of punishing them, he allowed them to leave on a brand new world... meanwhile Luke himself and his family had lost their own personal homes with Coruscant heavily damaged and Yavin IV pretty much destroyed.








    I completely agree!


    I agree with you. As for that toxin, Luke and the Jedi wouldn't have used it. They were very much against it.







    Tim Battershell:
    But that wouldn't have been the fault of Luke and the rest of the Jedi. They would have fought to protect the people and the galaxy; not just to destroy all of the YV. So why would that have pushed them to the dark side? They would have been doing what Jedi should do: standing against darkness and trying to protect the innocent. They shouldn't be faulted for the YV's culture and unwillingness to stop their aggression.







    MasterSkywalker86 :
    Great points!







    kataja :
    I thought it was especially terrible that Luke didn't go after those children who were in danger on Yavin IV. As the leader of the Jedi Order, they were his responsiblity. Plus, Luke has always been proactive about rescuing those in danger. Why would he suddenly choose to NOT go to save them? Instead, his fourteen or fifteen year old nephew, Anakin, went to save them. That was SO ridiculous!
  3. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    JediMatteus :
    The EU readers are just a small part of the star wars fanbase. Disney may decide that they would alienate more people by trying to include all of the EU continuity into the new fims than by just ignoring it. They may feel that they would be making the films too hard for the non-EU fans to understand if they try to include too much of the EU that those fans have no clue about. Since there are more of them than there are EU readers, they may feel it's wiser to go with not including the EU than with including it. I could be wrong, but that's the way it seems to me anyway. I hope I'm wrong, as I'd like them to include the EU up through SQ, but I just doubt that they will want to worry about all this.








    MasterSkywalker86:
    That's the way I feel too. And, as you said, the EU stories will still exist.






    Jedi Ben:
    I agree. I think it's worse NOT to do something when people are dying and you can make a difference. In fighting the Vong, the Jedi were protecting others and the galaxy, and there is nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. So I didn't understand this problem that the authors gave to Luke about not wanting to take the war to the Vong because he feared that all of the Jedi would go dark. That just doesn't really make sense. If you're defending innocents, you're doing what is right.


    I think that would have worked out better, yes.


    Right! What was more tragic was that about 3 trillion GA lives were lost in that war with the Vong. And NONE of them would have needed to die if the YV hadn't invaded the galaxy.








    Dawud786:
    That's definitely what *I'm* hoping, because I thought it was a stupid rule too, and I really, really, REALLY want Luke to marry and have kids. Cloistering young children in the Temple and away from their families was a pretty disturbing tradition, I thought. It's one thing to start a child at a fairly young age, it's quite another to not allow them to live with or see their parents. I was pleased to see that even though Luke started to train young children, that their parents were allowed to come to the Academy too and that they found jobs for them. That was the one thing about TJK that I actually liked.

    Exactly!!! Plus, Luke needs Force sensitives to train, right? Might as well include his own child/children as Jedi apprentices. They would likely be very powerful Jedi!






    Tim Battershell:
    Right! Plus, we learned from the OT that it was love that brought down an Emperor: the love of Luke for his father and the father for his son. So there is nothing wrong with love. It's the obsessive/possessive love that can cause problems.







    kataja:
    We're probably wishful thinking, but I like the idea that Yoda was encouraging Luke to have and train his own children as well as training his sister.







    Tim Battershell:
    You could be right, of course, but I just wonder if people who don't watch the Clone Wars cartoon (and I'm one of those people) and who don't read the EU would have any idea what was going on. It's quite an odd storyline.



    But I heard it was only a suggestion, not an edict. If Lucas wanted this information to go into the books, wouldn't it have been a command?


    Well, if the ST ends up being about Mortis, I really think my newfound enthusiasm for the future of SW will plummet very far, very fast! I just don't really care for the whole thing.







    The-Eternal-Hero:
    What do you mean about getting our wish but not the way we wanted it? Can you please explain a bit more, TEH?








    MasterSkywalker86
    I did see and like Avengers. I didn't see the Firefly series, but I did see the film that followed it. I thought it was quite dark and chilling. One of the main characters was killed at the end. Not my kind of entertainment. I don't want to see that in the SW sequels.

    What has Brad Bird done?


    I like all of your qualifications, MS. I agree that I would like to see all of the above too.



    I'm perfectly fine with losing DE. As you know, I was never really all that crazy about it anyway!




    More another time...
  4. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    That sums it up pretty well. It kinda sucks to be so torn. I' d like to be overjoyed there's new films coming. But fact is that I'm not. :( I liked the continuity too much.

    It certainly does. Rezpens speculations definitely make sense. Still, I find it hard to see Luke come back for a handful of films and then suddenly "go Mortiss stata" - become some kind og half god. Wóuld it work, story wise? Here I'm thnkig retcon included, IT takes itme ot develop a story, and all that kind of godly stuff is hard to get right... I'd seemuhc sense in Luke "go Mortiss" in the books - and thus being able to "return" to a sequel set much later. But i f that's what happens, I canøt see why George would be so excited about it since he's not into the books at all...
  5. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Ha ha! Patton was a cynic indeed! [face_laugh] But I dompletely agree with you about the Jedi strategy. I must admit I felt qute bad about the shisms inside their lines too -. the complete order seemed very unmature. Not my cup of tea. I remember it irritated me to no end that you finally incvnte these new , potentially very good villains - and then had the heroes break up from inside, Then again, isn't t just typical fro the time welibe in?

    Agreed! That - and the StarbyStar set up with Luke sending a bunch of teens to fight the voxyn. NJO had many qualities - but it also had a embarrasingly long number of idiotic setups it insisted on pulled through! I think Ben's onto when he again and again points out how our generation(s) are somehow alienated from the facts of war - and the dilemmas it rises that when we try to approach it intellectually, we get it all wrong. And no I'm not thinking of the families who wait for a loved ne to come home - I speak of those of us who sit in our littel ivory tower and try to imagine it all.

    The Invincibles, Ratatuille, Iron Giant! Your kind of stories, Child. If you havenøt seen them - allow yourself the luxury! I don't hesitate to call Invincibles the best super hero movie I've seen, aminated as it is. And the Iron giant is ....just aweome! So sweet. Stories with the heart exactky the right place!!!
  6. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Tim Battershell:
    I fully agree that Alpha Red was an abomination as far as the Jedi were concerned - it was even an abomination as far as Vergere (with her unique view of the Force and Jedi-ship) was concerned; and she took it upon herself to sabotage the project, albeit only managing to halt it for a time. Alpha Red is not an issue for me on this.

    There is nothing at all wrong with the Jedi fighting to protect the people - that is fully within the Jedi Way of using the Force for knowledge and defence (Yoda to Luke in ESB).

    The problem (as I see it) arises once the attack has been stopped, but large chunks of the Galaxy remain in enemy hands - and the displaced former inhabitants want their planets back!

    Does continuing the fight to turf the Yuuzhan Vong off those planets (which would be expected of the Jedi) constitute aggression (which Yoda also said was "quick to join you in a fight" and leading to the Dark-side) in Luke's view? I think it might be; particularly as any Yuuzhan Vong in occupation would have to be slaughtered to the litteral last Vong (quite possibly including females and children, if there were any there).

    Don't forget that both Corran and Jaina nearly fell, and Alema Rar eventually went entirely to the Dark-side because of events in that war - had Luke and Jacen (who understood the Yuuzhan Vong better than any other member of the Order) not found a third alternative, Alema Rar might have been only the first of many.

    If I'm right, I agree that it's a fine dividing line, but it may be just one more case of the head of the Jedi holding himself and the Order to much stricter ethical standards than would necessarily apply to lesser mortals.


    Tim Battershell:
    I don't watch the Clone Wars cartoon either - I read the synopsis on the Wook! Yes, it is indeed an odd storyline (one that doesn't even fit into the Clone Wars proper - there's no Seperatist political tie-in or army of Battle-droids around); but it does seem to be cropping up in a lot of recently published books - which would have been in the planning/early writing stages when those episodes went to air (perhaps even when those episodes were also in pre-production). To me, the timing, and syncronicity, stinks of fish - a cartoon plotline cribbed into one book I can accept, but into two novels (allegedly Luceno has confirmed that there are indirect references to it in Plagueis) and the Book of Sith are straining my coincidence threshold!
    Last edited by Tim Battershell, Nov 5, 2012
  7. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    right they still hold up....at least the ones in my collection ;)


    well Serenity was intended to be the sequel/conclusion to the series of Firefly, so seeing sort of say the "endgame/final battle" for the series first might have alter your perceptions. I would describe the series as basically a realistic "Star Wars" from the perspective of Han Solo. The tv series has the humor and light tone mixed in with heavy issues, not unusual to Star Wars. Avengers demonstrates the engaging dialogue of many conflicting personalities similar to Luke, Leia, and Han. If he wasn't already doing Avengers 2 I would love for him to take a crack at Episode 7 since to me he seems to understand what worked in the OT and what didn't in the PT.

    The Incredibles, Ratouile, and Finding Nemo. He also can do a good live action film as he demonstrated with the last Mission Impossible.


    they must be met Child....must :p

    I would be fine in actually seeing the battle between Luke and the Emperor Reborn live action though.

    well it's still pretty early to lose hope, who knows at this point. I'll play devil's advocate lets say on the off chance that Episode 7 is Mindor/TUF/TTT/HoT quality ? what then ?
  8. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    the best i could ever hope for is Dinsye leaving the eu intact, and buidling on that. Then giving us a new publisher that knows what they are doing. Luke needs to stay Luke. don't mess him up.
  9. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    the best i could ever hope for is Disney leaving the eu intact, and buidling on that. Then giving us a new publisher that knows what they are doing. Luke needs to stay Luke. don't mess him up.
  10. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    1. I hated the internal division plot in NJO, it was so damn pointless. Dark Tide I has a great scene with Jacen saying the Vong are invading in billions, they are not enough Jedi to stop them head-on. Therefore, to have any chance of victory, the Jedi and NR have to stand together. Instead the next 2 years, culminating in the fall of Coruscant, are an exercise in doing the exact opposite!

    2. A few years back, I read Kershaw's 2-volume Hitler biopic, which is more accurately described as a bipoic of Germany rather than Hitler per se. It is, in every respect, a masterpiece BUT it took me over a year to get through the second volume, covering as it did WW2 in far more horrific detail. What I concluded in the wake of that experience is that we are taught at school the barest surface of what went on in that time. The reality? So far removed as to be utterly alien and incomprehensible! I was watching a doc on the African war and how it all led to the battle of El Alamein. The numbers invoked were incomprehensible - 700 tanks, 180,000 men, 35,000 prisoners, hundreds of thousands dead. Soldiers at the time couldn't process that and we can't do it 60-70 years later. It's just off the scale. I do think there is a substantive difference between Europe, Britain and the US on WW2. For the latter it was something happening somewhere else, for most of Europe it was occupation and destruction, for Britain resistance despite being bombed frequently, with only a small stretch of protective water between it and Nazi Europe. It is incomprehensible that the NR military would have gone: "Well, the Vong have done numerous planetary bombardments but we can't do that to them as a point of principle." More likely? "They've done it to us, let's do to them!"

    1. I like the scenario you describe but it requires that the NR and Jedi gain and keep the initiative over the Vong. NJO never allowed that to happen, despite the victories in Rebel Stand and Destiny's Way. It would have been quite interesting too.

    2. Yeah, Firefly and Serenity are linked but are also quite different shows in tone.
    Last edited by Jedi Ben, Nov 6, 2012
  11. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    kataja:
    I completely agree! And, yes, it was really ridiculous to have Luke send all of those teenagers to fight the voxyn. It made no sense at all, especially since Luke and Mara going would have made far more sense. They both had experience with ysalimiri. Luke also knew about the Fallanassi illusions and could have cloaked himself to go destroy the voxyn without being seen.

    So he mostly does animated films? I'm not sure that would transfer to a live-action film. I like the "heart-in-the-right-place" comment though.







    Tim Battershell :
    Well, I would still say that the YV are the agressors and have captured what doesn't belong to them, probably enslaving lots of the people. So again, going to rescue those people seems to me that it woudl be fine for Jedi. And if not, then why couldn't the GA attack to regain those chunks of the galaxy? THEY, after all, are the ones with the big ships and big guns, not the Jedi.







    MasterSkywalker86:
    Well, for me, the ending is all important. Why have and enjoy a positive set of stories to only end up with a sad, disappointing ending? I don't want an ultimately sad ending for the Star Wars story.


    Okay. I wondered if he did only animated films. That answers my question.







    Jedi Ben:
    This is all very true.







    kataja:
    Yes!








    JediBen:
    I completely agree! As I keep saying, I think it's an EU myth that Luke was "too powerful" and solved all the problems himself in the Bantam books. The text doesn't support those claims.



    Unless Legacy is ever continued, it's still questionable whether Luke's descendant ever goes back to being a true Jedi or just goes around the galaxy doing whatever he pleases with his pink girlfriend.


    Possibly...


    But it still annoys me to know end that we have prequel Jedi taking over Luke's Order after he's dead instead of Jedi taught by Luke or by one of Luke's students. We definitely didn't need to have a prequel Jedi in charge.... especially a prequel Jedi who didn't lift a finger to help Luke.



    Which, in my opinion is really, really STUPID!


    SO what??? Who cares??? This would have made FAR more sense and would have been far more satisfying than having PREQUEL JEDI leading the NJO. Yes, a couple of fans might have complained about knowing that someone survived. But that makes more sense than having a PREQUEL JEDI in charge!!!!! Plus, it didn't even need to be a Jedi with a name that we already know. It could have been someone that was introduced as a Jedi taught by Luke or by one of Luke's Jedi. I don't see how this could have been a problem. I just think that the author was fond of his characters from an earlier series and decided to include them.... whether it made sense or worked in the story or not.

    EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!







    Tim Battershell...:
    Well, Luke's injury seemed to be both physical and Force-related, even though that really didn't make much sense. I mean, if Luke's body wasn't even physically there during the fight with Abeloth, HOW did it get injured???? The more I think about those FotJ books, the less sense they make.


    So why did Denning give the impression that whatever happened to Luke would be something that should be a continuing part of his "character arc"?


    I agree, but this is, sadly, likely to be a permanent one. That's why I'm hoping that this whole FotJ will be nullified by the new Sequel films.



    Well, I don't know the answer to that question, but we do know that Krayt has been trying healing techniques for a long time and has spent a lot of time in stasis. As I said, it's possible that this could be due to the injury he received in the battle with Abeloth as well as in his injuries that he received from the YV.


    Well, Denning seems to have been given a LOT of power and latitude in the Del Rey EU. So, it probably follows the EU canon. Whether or not it will be dismantled by the new films, remains to be seen.



    Perhaps, but since Luke remained in the land of the living specifically because of Krayt and his Sith, I would say that Luke is planning to look for him. Now that the author has opened the can of worms of having Luke and Krayt meet, I feel they need to have another meeting between the two of them.
  12. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Damon Lindelof, co-creator of Lost has this to say about Star Wars, George Lucas and the new films:
    http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/...vent-movie-ever-says-lost-co-creator-20121106

    This is exactly how I see it too. I hoenstl think they should made the leap and start somwhere new - but with Luke & co somehow in it. Best would be, if they could avoid mentionning what's happened in between at all for a start. Let the new time-era settle. Let them take time to decide what to do wtih the EU. They can get bacl to the EU or retcon when people sort of know what to expect. My take is still taht they'e s money and stories to use in the EU material - if they'd make even 1/3 of ti to TV, they'd still chnace much of it, even if they'd base it on the present EU. That's probably what I'd like most - keep the EU - but rewrite it as it gets to screen. That way we could keep what's godd for Luke (Mara, Ben etc.) but maybe shake away the worst bantha pudu.

    These are relevant questions. My problem with the start of NJo was that they weren't ont he table as far as the events of the war. Only in the explanations why the Jedi were fighting among themselves.

    Hmm, but I'd say they went dark becasue of what? Becasue of the challenges the war - not becasue the Vong couldn't be touched in the Force

    The latter I agree with, though. The Jedi should have higher ethcal standards tahn others. Which made it even more disappointing that they quarreled and some alomst spoke about "the Jedi for the Jedi". I remember a scene in Edge of Victory I where Luke asks if he's beena bad leader since this is happening and Mara comforts him - I remember hating myself for thinking: "Well, it could seem so."


    No one would love that more than I! But as I see it, first condition of seeign it, is the ST taking place logn enough after the OT not to touch the EU! But if Disney's going to unleach one film evert two/three years, they'll probably start to take interest in already existing stories at some point. I could see this sequel trilogy happen in soem distant future, but Big3 showing up anyway - then maybe a sequel more - but in contrast to Geroge Lucas, Disney has the manpower to make fill ins taht the fans want to see.


    Oh, I have a lot of hope - it's just that as long as we're only speculating, I'm not willing to confront the perspectives that disencourage me. :p And of course I'd love it it it was good! I'd probably love it even if it ws less good. Even the PT had me come crawling in the end. I just fear for my poor Luke, that they'll have him go monk ro something else terrible. (no offenese monks ..)

    Heard! Heard!!!

    That annoyed me too. I comforted myself with it beng standars nowadays to portray all leadershiåps as incompenetnt, be it the US government in an actonfilm, the NR or Luke - but it still was disappointing. My son asked me about a year ago why all regimes were so bad and I had to tell him taht they weren't like we see in the movies at all - and taht thought here is a thing about power corrupting, most politicians actually try to to a decent work, it's just that we find it hard to agree abotu what's he right thing to do. But I think it was pretty scary taht he was actualyl thinking like taht. Not exactly heads up t democracy :(


    Yes, reality is a very alien entity. :p As forthe military approach - as Tim points out, theJedi should have higher standars, but baiscally I agree.

    Exactly! I'm glad we now have the Invasion comics that show Luke as active int he war!
  13. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    All power corrupts - absolute power corrupts absolutely:-

    Derived from the above is:-

    Power tends to attract the people who can be corrupted by it!
  14. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Yes, reality is a very alien entity. :p As forthe military approach - as Tim points out, theJedi should have higher standars, but baiscally I agree.

    Exactly! I'm glad we now have the Invasion comics that show Luke as active int he war![/quote]

    1. Arguably the Clone Wars are the best example of why the Jedi are unsuited to war! Although if that sentiment was present in the EoV books, it wasn't without reason as a dumb galaxy decided that yes, handing them over Tsavong Lah would somehow save their arses.

    2. Yeah, it's one of the things that irritates greatly that this notion of democracy = broken chaos is so indulged!

    3. Well, we did! :( :_|

    If we're invoking Acton's line Tim, then it ought to be accurate, not least as there's a subtlety often overlooked in it:

    There's quite a bit of space here for someone to be uncorrupted by power, quite likely it would require an exceptional individual though - know of anyone like that?
  15. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    If anything, having PT Jedi running things adds to what LFL seems to want - one uniform, monotonous depiction of Jedi with no difference between the orders!

    On the jeopardy angle, it's something I really don't get: That a character either survives or manages to procreate somehow kills the entirety of suspense in a story just does not compute. Especially in a galaxy as advanced as SW! A character could have a descendant and still be killed off! How? Frozen sperm and in-vitro fertilisation, that's how. There are times when I just conclude SW EU and some of its fans have an imagination deficit!
  16. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Luke! Possibly Wynn Dorvan! Leia!

    That wording is how I've seen it - but it has been filtered through other people! Thanks for the originator!
  17. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Luke, Luuke, Luuuke etc. Frank Herbert used Gholas (clones grown from the cells of a cadaver).
  18. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Oh, what you is certainly the popular form - I just find the original a little more interesting due to the possibilities it allows!
  19. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Even that is largely a fan interpretation. Losing body mass doesn't change midichlorian count, and it was never said to have hurt Luke's potential even to a small degree. Vader's issues go beyond simple loss of body mass; he is on life support with his breathing controlled by a machine.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Nov 7, 2012
  20. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    OMG - I just hope they won't use Zahn's brilliant april fools idea for a soft reboot!!! [face_laugh]

    Then again, that would make Mara part of the cast...[face_thinking][face_batting]
    Last edited by kataja, Nov 7, 2012
  21. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    kataja :
    That's the way I feel too. The only way that this would need to be different would be if the sequels take place very soon after the originals, but I hope that doesn't happen.


    That might be the best way to go. I'm still hoping though that if they decide to wipe out only some of the EU, that they delete things that start after SQ. That's when things really started to go south for Luke's character.




    I agree with that.


    The authors never should have had a rift among the Jedi. They already had enough problems with AN ALIEN INVASION, plus, the government wasn't willing to cooperate with the Jedi either. Sometimes Luke, his friends, and Jedi were the only ones trying to stop the invaders, as at Helska IV, I think it was. To add insult to injury, they also had that "Peace Brigade" that was hunting Jedi, as well as voxyn. Why did the Jedi also need to have an interior squabble as well???

    This is my one big fear too. I will be SO disappointed if Luke doesn't have a family. I want to be able to follow some of Luke's offspring into the future stories. I would hope that Disney would recognize the value of having a young with the iconic SKYWALKER name for future films. I hope they won't deny Luke a wife and kids. (And I would like to see more than one Skywalker child, if possible.)







    Jedi Ben:
    I agree. I don't like it either.



    But I think there really SHOULD be a difference. In the first place, some of what the PT Jedi were doing, like taking babies from their parents and not allowing them to have a relationship with them; and forbidding Jedi to marry and have families seemed very wrong to me. I felt that changes were needed. Jedi also shouldn't be so cut off from the average person in the galaxy. I was, therefore, glad that Luke's Jedi had different traditions and ways of doing things. I was very annoyed when authors started to shoehorn prequel Jedi traditions into Luke's Order.


    I don't understand this kind of thinking either. What does it matter if you know that a certain character managed to survive, at least for a while? I actually see that as a GOOD thing!
    MasterSkywalker86 likes this.
  22. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Thoughts:-

    Have we discussed Grace (daughter of Mara-clone 'Hunter' and Kam-clone 'Alpha') from Riptide, yet? Could she be the second 'Skywalker' child implied in CoPL? She is, effectively, Ben's half-sister.

    What do we make of the ERC retcon (or correction) that Vestara's Thermal Detonator toss in Apocalypse was deliberately botched? Does this imply that Vestara will be quickly back on the scene?

    Has anyone noticed the unfortunate (or perhaps intentional) anagram of 'Sith'; which could explain why they mess-up each and every time they seem to have won? They sometimes manage to grab hold of power, but they're Sith at holding on to it for any significant length of time(?)!

    On the basis that we saw Darth Maul get sliced apart at the waist, but never saw him actually expire and that some of him has returned in TCW; what implications could that hold for others that have been implied as dead, but who we never actually saw expire? Examples: Chewie, Boba Fett, even Palpatine Mk1?
    Last edited by Tim Battershell, Nov 8, 2012
  23. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Except re. the Bantam era, where, however dire the situation looked, none of the core characters even stood a real chance of not surviving! At least NJO showed that the Galaxy (and the Jedi way of life) is dangerous!
  24. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    well Child you technically saw the ending first(so you're introduced to them briefly) and the character of Washburne wasn't the ending at all, his arc was the heroic sacrifice and demonstrating that the heroes are all in danger. Yet.... the rest of the characters have their last stand/final battle and survived while defeating the evil of the Alliance. They get their ship repaired and River takes over as pilot and the galaxy is aware of the atrocities of the Alliance. I wouldn't judge it as being a dark ending but the movie had dark moments in it. I believe the actor wanted the character to die hence forth the unexpected death. This franchise has been the poster boy of issues with being shown on Fox.
    .

    while I agree on some points, I still feel that you can get other actors to play the roles of the big 3.....but they have to choose carefully. As for Lindelof there are many issues I had with Prometheus [face_not_talking]

    nah uh I would love it more :D especially in what they can do with fights now a days well that could happen as well.


    i know what you mean, as I mention before they must stay true to my 4 points.....or there will be hell to pay :p
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Nov 8, 2012
  25. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    I completely agree! And, yes, it was really ridiculous to have Luke send all of those teenagers to fight the voxyn. It made no sense at all, especially since Luke and Mara going would have made far more sense. They both had experience with ysalimiri. Luke also knew about the Fallanassi illusions and could have cloaked himself to go destroy the voxyn without being seen.

    to me, the NJO is a sacred masterpiece. i won't question it. i thoght that the premise that Luke would be a huge target while the kids would be underestimated made sense. I love Star by Star the way it is.
    Last edited by JediMatteus, Nov 8, 2012
  26. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    I agree, it was unnecessary - and it could have been so much cooler to see the Jedi work together instead of quarrelling. But as they decided to have them quarrel - I found it disappointing that they just let Luke sit there with his doubts and Mara hushing him that it wasn't his fault. They never dealt with how much was "Luke's fault", i.e. what could he learn and make better - as there's always something you can learmn from every situation and Luke obviously had to have much to learn as he started from scratch when establishing the order.

    I desperately hope so too. Not because I think people need marriage for happiness - but because I think Luke and Mara is such a fabulous and fun match!

    I don't think so - and if we have, I've missed it since I haven't read that duology yet. OMG, yes there was a second child in that vision in COPL. I had quite forgotten. But I can't really see Grace be that - she migth be Ben's half-sister - but taht doesn't make her a Skywalker child. I think the holocron has effectively forgotten all about that COPL vision, actually.


    That was retconned? Cool. I don't think it will put Vestara back quickly, though - too much happened afterwards - but it opens for the possibility taht she can come back among the Skywlakers and Solo's if the plot needs it.

    I hope not. I think it's bad style to let dead return - unless it's kind'of a important part of the plot, like Gandalf in LOTR or Harry Potter in Deathly Hollows. Lucas had to have Obi-Wan return as a Force ghost and it was ok because he relaly had no idea his film would make enough money for part II - but after that, it's meek.

    LOL Ok, maybe you would.
    Last edited by kataja, Nov 8, 2012