Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Mar 22, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ChildOfWinds Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 6
    instantdeath:
    Oh, I like that comparison of the difference between Anakin and Luke here, ID!







    MasterSkywalker86:
    So you never read Legacy? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like Cade... Not many people do, even those who are huge fans of the Legacy comics. I really didn't like him AT ALL! Poor Luke deserved to have a far better descendant than that jerky, selfish, dope-addict. :mad: But I would like to hear what you would have to say about him.

    I don't think I would say that Luke's guidance saved Cade's life. Cade didn't listen to Luke very much. He pretty much scoffed at everything Luke said. While Cade did "man-up" and get involved by defeating Krayt, I'm not sure I'd say that he ever really accepted his heritage as a Jedi either. After defeating Krayt, he took off with his pink girl friend, and it was unclear about what he would do next. But it didn't seem like he was planning to be a "career Jedi".


    Many good wishes that you pass!

    It did??? I don't play video games. I wish they would have done those as book or comic stories instead....


    SO true!!!!! I really think I might have liked Callista, but I couldn't get past the fact that she was a spirit in a computer and that her body had died before Luke was even born. I mean, that's WIERD! Then there was that whole body-transfer business that was pretty disturbing actually. What if she and Luke would have married and had children??? Would they have been Callista's kids ... or Cray's? It was too "out there" for me!

    Plus, the ending was SO unsatisfying! Luke spent the whole book searching for Callista, and then, when he finally sees her, they wave and that's IT???? Plus, after being sad and pining for her for the whole book, Luke certainly got over her awfully quickly at the end.


    He's ambiguous with many other things too!

    That's awfully fast after Bakura!!! I thought the Bakura story lasted longer than a week. They had to travel a distance in the first place to get there, and they didn't solve the problem in a day.


    Oh! Luke was involved in a Rogue mission??? I'll have to see if I can find that! I wonder why that wasn't included in the Luke compilation?







    Tim Battershell, I didn't "recognize" you with your new avatar! ;)


    I said the same thing above! Yes, I agree with you!


    I think he was there for ONE paragraph or so ! That's ridiculous!


    I don't know if Luke was still part of the military or not. But I think they just used that "searching for Jedi information" as an excuse to not include Luke. Yes, I can understand that Luke would want to start looking for more things about the Jedi, but when the galaxy was still such a mess, I can't believe that Luke would do that full-time. He should have had time for some missions with Rogue squadron too. His Jedi skills could have been useful.








    kataja:
    True! Let's hope they decide to do that. I would prefer that over more books like Allegiance and CoO, where Luke is just portrayed as a far too naive fledgeling Jedi, when he should be a Jedi at all yet.


    That's a good point. Plus, as they may be using the Big Three as older characters in the ST, there may be more interest in Luke's earlier adventures again.


    That makes three of us that feel that way then. Luke was portrayed as almost stupid in the way he handled that. It didn't seem like Luke at all! After his father, Luke would have been far more careful with students who showed even a bit of darkside tendencies, I think. Luke is is astute and NOT a fool, and I didn't like having him portrayed as one.


    More tomorrow...
    kataja likes this.
  2. kataja Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Just a few comments now, but getting back later...

    Well, they have a nice fight in TBFL - I really liked seing Leia have a proper fit and Han just shutting up :pAnd Luke just went stubborn and followed his onw mind anyway.;) But it's not enough. Not nearly enough.

    Which made his gloom all the better portrayed. i really love that book. Maybe I should give myself the X-mas present to re-read it?

    Yes. And that was KJA??? It's amazing 'cos that was actually good. Terribly ambiguos - but in the good way! And pretty darned perfect at that part of timeline!!!

    Very well... Master :p But I still might re-read Mindor first ;) Congratulations on your promotion.

    Well, good luck. But I'm not sure she'll 'Master' you ;)


    Exactly!

    Exactly. And even in Rogue Leader, he's not talking about quitting - he's saying he can't devote all the time he should to the Squadron - whihc is far from the same thing. I could easily see him come back from time to time and him and Wedge having the relationship they do - Wedge would either back off - or Luke would fly as part of the squadron - I'm sure they'd make it work

    Exactly!!!!!


    I've never balked at that - but at some point I'm going t go back and re-read to see it I can see that pattern.


    That's an extremely valuable thing - particularly in the EU as it is now!!!

    LOL - mind you I wrote this quoting you people who complain about it - I'm still pretty blind to it myself [face_blush]

    Very god point, Ben! No, ignorance was most certainly bliss in this case!!!
  3. kataja Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Very good point, Nobody! Luke was the only one - even Leia might have been 'tainted' somehow, because Vader knew so much of her already. Unless he'd seen enough of Padme in her to crack. Obi-Wan and Yoda were well excused. I admit I'm a bit afraid to go deeper into Vader stories in general, as I have an idea they like to tinker with this - how-bad-is-really? question - and either they truly show how bad he was - which makes me question his redemption - or they tend to make him less bad - which is mocking those who once believed in him. So ignorance is bliss also in my case.

    I enjoyed the Luke on Jabiim story line a lot. It went to the limit of how much Luke can learn, I think - but it did it well and only raised questions and a liguering sadness. Luke didn't learn more than his hopes and dreams would be able to silence - but it would be come back to haunt him after Bespin. I liked it.

    While I generally enjoyed DNT, I didn't like how that particular sotryline was handled. We saw those tapes - but we never saw how luke actually reacted and reflected on them. Which - IMO - should have been the point of bringing it up. But we should remember that Zonama Sekot at least, gave Luke good pictures of Anakin.

    Obi-Wan was excused, I think. Luke was still so green - and he had enough of a shock when his uncle and aunt were killed. Besides, Ben probably thought he'd be able to hang around a while longer. While Yoda... Yeah, well... o_O

    I can see it too, yes. But that doesn't mean I approve. They had a point - but Luke also had a right to know. What if he'd killed Vader - and then learned he was his father? Same with Leia - if Han had't been around to charm her things could have gone pretty bad - and afterwards a "gee, we didn't know" wouldn't help much. Ah, well. There's only so much you can fics in retrospect, and this is SW - the flaws are part of the charm;)

    I have it the same way. And it wasn't for lack of goodwill.... I really wonder how they thought people could swallow that one...? That said, I think Callista was too 'perfect' - she was oh, so wise and brave and noble and beautiful and good to fight. What I like about Luke and Mara is that they bring up - and smooth out each others flaws.

    more later...
    Last edited by kataja, Dec 22, 2012
  4. JediMatteus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 5
    Isn't there a comic or something where Luke and Biggs stumbles upon the darkness In the Sand People camp where Anakin slaughtered them for killing his Mom? I also liked where Obi Wan delt with that and faced the Jedi responsible for letting it get worse with revenge.. Can't remember his name.
  5. ChildOfWinds Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 6
    kataja:
    It does take time, but it is fun to do it. It's fun to do it with these short, little comments about Luke's roles in the books too.


    I agree! That would have been a time of many decisions and possibilities for Luke, so it would be a good time for some Luke tales! (Of course, any time is a good time for Luke tales, in *my* opinion!)
    :)

    Yes! Luke has always outranked Wedge. The squadron leader put Luke in charge, and I do think that I remember Wedge calling Luke, "boss" in the film.






    Jainasky:
    Welcome to the SOS thread, Jainasky!

    I will admit that it took a while for me to open up to her too. The very fact that she wanted to kill my favorite farmboy didn't exactly endear her to me. However, she grew on me, and now I find it difficult to think of anyone else as Luke's wife. However, when the sequel films come out, I would rather find that Luke married someone besides Mara than that he married no one at all.







    MasterSkywalker86:
    Well, it seems that they are awfully close together, but at leastl the close proximity of the two worlds does help explain that they would be able to set the Rogue Squadron story just a week after TaB.


    Sadly, that's true. Maybe they will still write those books in the future.


    I agree. And it happened so fast too. HOW do you fall in love with a voice in a computer anyway???

    I'm glad that I"m not the only one that was bothered by that... Plus, as I said, if there had been a child, whose kid would it have been anyway?






    kataja:
    That book does have a very good Mara characterization. I would even say that VotF is a pretty good Mara book EXCEPT for that horrible lecturing of Luke which really spoils things.

    I like the way that you put that. As it says in VotF too, they just complement each other so well. Each of their strengths seems to support and take the edge off the other's flaws.







    jainasky : .
    I would be interested in your reaction to this book. The first part of that book annoyed me a lot, but once I accepted what was done to our boy Luke, the rest of that book wasn't bad. I didn't like most of that series though.









    Kataja:
    I wish Kathy Tyers would write more SW books. I think she truly *gets* both Luke and Mara. She said that Luke is her favorite character, and it really shows in her stories.









    MasterSkywalker86 :
    Yes, I agree. Plus, I think it took a while for Mara to be willing to trust someone, especially after the way in which she was used by Palpatine. But once she committed to Luke, she did so completely, even becoming a Jedi and helping Luke train others.


    This and the other paragraph above, is a nice analysis of Mara and her relationship with Luke.


    So true!!!








    Jedi Ben :
    That's a good question, JB. I'm not sure. On the one hand, you're right that if he had been given more information, Luke might not have believed that Vader could be redeemed. However, he also knew some pretty awful things about Vader already. He knew Vader had killed Kenobi and had tortured Leia, AND that he had been Palpatine's right hand man for many years. So, he knew some pretty awful things about Vader. Yet, somehow, he had still felt the little sliver of good that was still in him. I guess we'll never know whether Luke would have believed Vader to be unsalvageable if Kenobi had told him everything.








    Nobody

    N!!!!!! Welcome back!!!! It's been a LONG time!

    That's a great point about Luke being the one person that Luke actually still cared about. That's likely the "good" that Luke felt.



    I really didn't like that Denning added that to DNT. I would have preferred it if Luke had never found out. Having Artoo film everything was ridiculous.


    I agree.


    Good question!







    JediMatteus:
    I agree! Luke deserved to be told!


    More later...
    kataja likes this.
  6. instantdeath Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    Reading some more of the Luke biography, it kinda makes me sad that there's no story, as far as I'm aware, of Luke meeting his friends after he's become a Jedi and one of the most important single person in the galaxy (he does briefly meet up with Fixer, I think, in one of the early Marvel comics, but that was before ESB). I really have to wonder what they'd say to old Wormy. As Fixer asks, "do you think anybody out there cares about Luke Skywalker"? I think he gets his answer.

    It's a bit cheesy, since they aren't allowed to talk like real teenagers talk, but I like the American Graffiti vibe so far. Luke does start off as the nice guy who sort of lets people walk all over him. Even at this stage, though, we are seeing him fight back in the form of simply being more ambitious, in wanting more out of life than what Tatooine promises the rest of the gang. And, of course, he beats everyone in races.
    kataja likes this.
  7. kataja Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    It was suppose to be poetic, I think...

    Well, enough to make someone like me to buy the book :p

    We agree on that all right!!! The latter is just :mad:

    Exactly. It's understandable he's do a whole lot of mistakes int he beginning - but he'd not stand by clueless as he does in JAT. Also, am I the only one who get annoyed they all seem to forget that Luke was a Rebel Alliance soldier for four years!!!??? I can not believe the Alliance would have let their No 1 Yavin Hero go untrained - on the contrary they'd send him off to some super boot camp to learn as much as possible as quickly as possinle. And in the millitary, he'd learn discipline and leadership as well.


    Isn't taht in the Luke or Obi-Wan biography? It mught be in a comic too.

    Yes, it is! :)

    We agree on that!

    I'd love to se more of her too!!!

    I like your take on that. Never seen AG - are there any parallels? I remember that comic too, it was nice - but too little. Fixer was very impressed by Luke but still sold him to the Tagges. There's a little more in on of Alex Wheelers Rebel Force books too, the first one if I rmemeber correctly - and it started off nicely but didn't leave any lasting impression on me. But theres a fanfic that I absolutely adore, by JediTrace (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2467653/1/The-Worst-Day) that lets Mara first and then Luke return to Tatoine. It might be a bit b-wordy, though... ;) (and features an OC, a cousin of Luke's) But it definitely captures the vibe of the hero who comes home to people who once disreagded him, but who really can't anymore.
  8. Mat Skywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    yeah perhaps there is a retcon for it being just a week. I mean other things have happen in EU that were close in time but it is cutting it rather close.

    I hope so, perhaps with the new movies coming out they'll have more opportunities to do so.

    Out of the blue and for the sake of the plot. I dunno it's an odd idea, Kataja made the most sense of the situation and even then I would still consider it OOC for Luke anyways especially since he push Mara away. I mean he stayed focused on his duties than his social life yet he throws all that away for Callista...sigh

    [face_plain] I dunno, genetically speaking it's Cray's but spiritually it's Callista's but even still that's pushing the moral boundaries there. I mean what's wrong with Luke finding a normal woman.....like Mara ?

    right although Mara at the time didn't felt like she was used or at least wasn't willing to admit til Luke brought it up and then she accepted it.

    thanks....I have my moments ;)


    actually I did but not all the issues, the story didn't put me off at all it was actually pretty good. What I didn't like was Cade's personality which bothers me since I wanted to have a Skywalker character that kept me invested. I could understand that through Cade's experiences he went through a great deal of "scarring", losing his father, friends, and being abandoned in space would affect his character a great deal, but if I saw say some positive attributes show up a bit more or earlier on for Cade then I would have been more interested.

    Cade was going to commit suicide after killing Krayt in War, Luke told him not to. I know there is a bit more detail to it but Luke DID influence him at that point and saved his life for it.

    thank you :)

    yeah I'm surprised they haven't, considering the Rogues are a big draw of SW.

    no kidding....it started out as a bad idea and ended up being worst.

    dunno, I know Haden Blackman did the pencils on the mini series but it seem to be a small release in 05.

    all good points, Luke did become more introverted saved for Callista which we'll call an OOC moment for him. Mara would have expected for Luke to open up more hence what she mentions in VoTF and was disappointed by him suddenly becoming more reserved. I also see her scolding as that type of rant, while some of her ideas were wrong about Luke it was more about their personal issues when it came down to it. I think you worded that nicely, "her ideas of what wrong than what was actually wrong" bravo =D=

    I agree, there were many ways they could have implied what happen or cutaway once the fireworks happen, which Denning has a knack for. I guess Zahn is a bit too cold when writing relationships.

    yeah I'm a romantic at heart :p you're right waited isn't the word, peeved about it certainly. But with what happen she probably resume with what she know until Luke could open her up again. She also seem inclined to tell him about it a great deal


    yeah Barbara Hambly has her rather generic and KJA had her in practically a non speaking role.

    what book is that ?

    After you finish TUF :p I think I might reread the HoT duology after DE though.

    I'm sorry what did KJA did well ? I forgot what book we were talking about here.

    definitely worth a reread but finish TUF first :p thanks....now its Grand Master again. Go do your duties :p


    [face_blush] [face_rofl] that reminds me the line in DW, where Mara mentions how she likes to call Luke Master every now and then ;)[/quote]
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Dec 23, 2012
  9. kataja Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    [:D][:D][:D]MERRY CHRISTMAS to everybody!!!![:D] [:D][:D]



    Just checked in my Essential - the Corellian Trade route would take them to Kineyn - and after taht, a smaller lane would go all way to Bakura. I admit starightout I don't 'get' space travel - and I*m also pretty sure that all the retcons in the world couldn't make up for all the stuff that's been done - but I think if you travel down the existing lanes, then it goes fast - its the minor jumps that take time.

    The thing is, that he does the same with Jem in DE - and she's actually his student...just saying... o_O That's even more OOC to me. Then, Luke's at heart an impulsive nature and when he's pushed to his limits, it would bound to come out, right? I see Jem a aprt of a post traumatic whatever - and the reason Luke falls for her must be that she's falling for him wich gives him a hope he can't resist. Same with Callista. Mara, to be fair, did not give Luke much support - she was more like to stand aside and watch with hawk eyes, not missing a miss step. My take on things is that Luke simply wasn't ready for a relationship with a lady that critical - he's still a fumbling farmboy trying to learn to swin on the far too deep waters he's been thrown out on. By THT he's a man, who can face his mistakes and admit them wihtout getting a heartrace. There's that one sceen in THT that I see as important (and one of Zahn's almost invisible major feats) where Mara lists up faults Luke has made in a "who was it that" manner - and Luke doesn't even blink: "It was me. Why?" Then aftrwards, Zahn has him cringe a lot - but if you read cloesly, you see it's for other - and new faults that he realizes. And most of them I don't agree with - but the scene above still stands.

    Aww, thanks!

    He's generally a bit lukewarm, isn't he? (no pun intended) It works so well in so many situations, I really love muhc of his undrestated humor and warmth - but then in some scenes, it just doesn't. Well, nobody's perfect. But you're right - Denning offers some nice moments between Luke and Mara. I love that one in STB where Mara's trying to make breakfast (whihc, of course, doesn't work out very well) and Luke comes out saving the situation by goofy humor and Mara just starts to drag him to the bedchamber :p


    The Luke and Leia quarrel is in Before the Storm, first book in the Black Fleet Crisis. Pretty early one when Luke goes to tell he's taking off with Akanah.


    Ewww com'on Master!!!! It's Christmas!!! Besides, I'm working thorugh Black Fleet Crisis too and had decided to do that first. Problem with TUF is that I need to skim part pf the 18 earler NJO books before I get to it in order to remember what's happened! Then again - I get Reader's Essential today - it's under the tree - so maybe it will make it easier to me? :) (yeps, in Denmark we're not only hours before you people in the states - we also get to open out gifts already X-mas eve :D)

    Actually I did start on Mindor yesterday - and darn - it's so good!!!

    The scenes' with Mara in Darksaber. The only thing worth reading in that entire book :p


    Bravo, you recognized it =D= I wondered if you would ;)
  10. JediMatteus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 5
    Yeah Obi-wan defeated and redeemed the Tusken jedi who was taking what Anakin did, and used it for cause of revenge. This was in the Obi-Wan book, I have not read Luke's bio. Does that have anything new in it like the "Life and Legend of Obi-Wan Kenobi" did?
  11. kataja Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    I gave myself the best Christmas present in years - to re-read Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor!!! I'm only five chapters in and have absolutely no hurry but relish it in nibbles. And Force what a flavour!!! Aaahh... [face_blush] Having reached to chapter 6 I think what I love most, even more than the excellent characterization, the hilariously funny details and the general awesomness on feeling, is what Luke IS, in this book. Not so much a hero, though his struggle with this roles ring absolutely true - but how loved he is - what an source of inspiration he is to everybody - and particlularly to those who stand close to him. Leia tells Wedge and Tycho: Luke's in danger - and they round up the Rogues, opposing all orders in the world, immediately. Han rushes off to save him, Leia does, Lando does. And it strikes me how essentially SW this is - love - and how much an embodiement of love, Luke is.

    I deeply, dearly, hope they can manage to hold on to this in the ST!

    And it contrasts so grimly with the sneering and disregard we're served in CoO. [face_plain]

    Most of it is OT scenes and comic stories retold - thus achieving a higher level of canon. But some of the scenes are new too. Nothing remarkable but definitely enjoyable.
  12. JediMatteus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 5
    i just downloaded the Luke Skywalker bio on my kindle. Even in the beginning there were some cool, revelations about Luke as a child. I think i will get more info than most as i have not read the old comics.
    kataja likes this.
  13. Mat Skywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Hope you had a good holiday as well. I knew that Bakura was somewhere close to Endor but it could be argued that's a relative short time to do so much

    one could argue that it was Jem who was pursuing rather than Luke;)

    I agree with your take.


    can you please quote that one ? I forgot that scene. ;)

    ah thanks

    ok then but after the holidays its back to your chores :p

    nice, Im planning to check out DE later tonight

    [
    good point

    I try not to forget Mara's flirtatious behavior
  14. ChildOfWinds Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 6
    I had a wonderful Christmas. I hope everyone else who celebrates had a wonderful one as well!

    kataja :
    Interesting idea, K! It makes sense that the events of DE and his own close call would shock Luke and make him draw inside himself more, and it probably was a contributing factor in delaying their realization of their love for one another and their eventual marriage.

    But since Luke didn't fall to the dark side, I don't know why Mara would be repulsed by Luke pretending to join the Emperor in order to defeat him.

    Yes, and actually let her guard down and trust someone again.


    Exactly! Yes, Luke felt he needed to put some of his time into learning more about the Jedi, but that didn't mean that he was planning to do this exclusively. As you said, he could still easily come back now and then and fly on some missions with Wedge and Rogue Squadron. And yes, I could see Wedge being willing to "back off" and let Luke lead his old Squadron when he was able to fly with them. And Luke is a humble guy. I'm sure he wouldn't mind NOT being the leader when he flew with them.


    It started already in SbS when Denning had Luke stupidly remain behind while he sent many teenage jedi apprentices to Myrkr. That is so NOT Luke! Luke is an action-oriented character and always in the thick of things. Plus, Luke is a lot smarter than that. But Denning needed for Luke to NOT go in order for his planned plot to go forward, so Luke foolishly sent the young Jedi with 15 or 16 year old Anakin to lead them. It made no sense to me then, and it still doesn't all these years later.


    And then there's Apocalypse, which ends with us not knowing exactly what's wrong with Luke. Is he permanently disabled? Will he never be able to do amazing Force feats again?

    Apocalpyse also ends with all of the villains still in place. The good guys didn't really defeat any of them. The BIg Bad is still alive somewhere; thousands of Sith in two different groups are still alive and loose in the galaxy; Daala is still out there, as are Krayt, Vestara, and Ship. NOTHING is really settled. Nothing has really been accomplished, so there is no true ending to the story. I really find that kind of writing extremely unsatisfying and annoying. When I invest my time in a story, I want the whole thing: beginning, middle, AND ending.


    More another time....
  15. kataja Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    It's perfect, then :) But I must admit, I've read most of the comics and I still found it pretty cool.


    Oh, I had. Glad you had so too! [:D] Uhm, actually I was looking at the way from Corelia to Bakura, but yes, Endor is very close to Bakura - and on a lane, s it shouldn't take too long.

    Hey - he stood nicly against Shira and Teneniel when they pursude a realationship - then again, if we assume the DE events must had influenced him...

    It's a long quote, so take it as your X-mas present. But here comes:

    StarbyStar,ch 22, paperback: p 271f
    I just love that scene. The only thing that's 'wrong' is that Mara would have had a time when she saw now value in herself.... Now, I don't buy she's as cocky as she tries to be and I definitely think she must have had some serious downs after TTT - but I don't buy that she would quite hit the bottom either!

    :p I'm sure you do!

    So glad to hear that! [:D] And yes thanks! It was great! I still have vacation until wendesday next.

    Glad you approve. Well, there has to be some reasons, right, so why don't go for the psychologically likely ones? ;)

    Well, taken her background, she'd likely be more or less allergic to the whole subject. Also, she'd still think Palpatine as someone truly powerfull, he'd dominated her entire life after all - so Luke's risk would look all the more arrogant to her. Plus she migth be secretely despearet that in that particularsitiation he couldn't ask her for help out fear she'd be influenced by Palpatine. I think all the contractictions there would give her mental nausea!

    Exactly! Thikning of it, it's more or less a miracle Luke managed to make her do that at all. It takes a Luke Skywalker ;)

    I can see that too! :)

    Hmm, you see a Denning-footprint there - but I see a NJO footprint. From page one, the Solo kids were thrown into that war - and their friends followed. I agree it's OOC for Luke - but I don't think Denning had much chose as to what would happen in that novel - he had to kill Anakin and the voxyn queen - all he could influence was how.

    We've been here before Child ;) And while I respect your opinion and sympathise with your frustration, I still don't agree.
    Last edited by kataja, Dec 27, 2012
  16. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    It's taken me just over 10 years to get COW to partly see how I see DE K, it may be a similarly long-term project for you with regard to Apocalypse! :)
    kataja likes this.
  17. kataja Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Ah, LOL that's a kind'of friendship too ;)
  18. Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 8
    Luke was hurt at the end of NJO... shadowed at the end of LotF... and again wounded at the end of FotJ... I'm sure he'll be fine this time too, CoW!

    As to the villains all surviving FotJ... Good. I'm tired of there only being two or three loose ends left at the end of every series.

    NJO - Raynar Thul and two Dark Jedi (Sith) are missing... I wonder where this is going.

    DNT - Jacen's acting dark, Alema's death is uncertain, Jagged is missing, the GA-Jedi relationship is dipping, corporations are acting illegally. I wonder if... Jacen falls and a civil war happens?

    LotF - Ship is missing, Daala is in-charge of the GA, and Lecersen has been snubbed by Luke as leader of the Empire... I wonder if Daala is going to be a problem? That's not likely!

    FotJ - Tribe is defeated but still hidden; One Sith are exposed but to a small degree; Abeloth is severely weakened; Mortis is revealed; Daala is still alive; Vestara and Ship are at large; Thaal has concealed his role in the Lecersen Conspiracy; Lecersen is still alive; Treen is in hiding.

    It's fun that all of our loose ends are so open-ended. We can get a galaxy of stories, instead of one very narrow one. Abeloth was a very refreshing change of pace.
    kataja likes this.
  19. JediMatteus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 5
    i have already finished the book. Loved it!!! especially the end where Luke finds out about Anakin being a slave and the podrace that he won. It was cool reading the revelations in Tatooine Ghost with Leia, and here with Luke. Part of me wanted Luke to reveal himself as Anakin's son, and let these poor people know what became of him.
    kataja likes this.
  20. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    The question of loose ends is, for me, partly linked to confidence in the creators involved - is there a sense they know what they're doing or is it made up on the fly badly? (If you can notice it, then it's being done badly.) If people have confidence in the people involved, then those threads will be attended to and done so well. Without it? The threads will probably get disposed of but badly because there was no plan in the first place.

    That's perhaps the problem with Luke's injuries, they happen in one book and are gone by the next so effectively rendering him a punch-bag for the authors. Can't be long before a book in juries Luke and the net reply will be: 'Yeah? And?' It'll have about the same credibility as Marvel/DC pronouncements like 'nothing will ever be the same again!'.

    Back to loose ends, I don't think it is expecting too much for a big, multi-part story to conclude its main plots - Nomi, Welk and Raynar weren't that in NJO were they? DN was basically a 3-book prologue for LOTF, with all the suspense removed by the writer effectively scrawling on a billboard: Jacen's going dark! Nah, it's LOTF-FOTJ where Sinny's been having to work overtime! It's hard work bringing logic to the illogical! :)
  21. Robimus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    To me probably the biggest mistake LOTF made was killing/redeeming all the villains, thus leaving us with very little going forward. Lumiya, Thracken, Alema, Jacen - not to mention all of the 'evil' Moffs - all were killed. Tahiri was essentially redeemed - Which left basically Daala, Lecersen & Mandalorians left to fit into the villian roles(roles they didn't have in LOTF).

    It would have been nice if they kept one or two of the actual villians around for future use.

    With that I really disliked Abeloth by the time FOTJ came to a close. I think the best choice would have been to rid the galaxy of her forever.
  22. kataja Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    I agree. At maximum it's a possibility the later authors can use if they need a conflict to escalate without people starting to complain "why didn't Luke put a stop to it already on page fifteen" - "oh yeah - he had that would, didn't he?" But most likely, it will simply be forgotten - the authors have enough in their heads to take into consideration than tiny wee details from previous books. :p

    [face_laugh] I like your take on that! And agree completely! All of those stories seem like great fun to me! Plenty to do for both for Luke and his Jedi. Which is exactly what people have been yapping about for ages! We should be clapping our small hands, should we!

    So glad you liked it JM! It's not a great book in any ways - but very lovable. I like that we get so many pre ANH stories! Also, they manage pretty well to give glimpses of what Luke has to offer, without making him a great hero yet - a rather hard task, actually, when you need to tell an adventurus story.


    Exactly this, Ben! It's not only you - this is how it works! Do you believe in the writer and his/her ablity to pick up old stuff and bring them to a neat conclusion in good time - or do you not! Child doesn't, as she in general doesn't like Denning' style - and thus, the more there lies that he's thrown out that isn't wrapped up - the more frustrated she gets. And if I look at the loose ends as litter - I can well understand her point. I don't agree, personally, as I like Denning and think he's shown several times how good he is to return to his own threads and spin a new story from them - but I understand her take on it. It's, as you put it, very simply a question of trust.

    Heh - I stood with Scoundrels in my hand today, and couldn't bring msyelf to buy it. Again - broken trust. (or is it 'failed trust'?:confused: )

    This is a general problem, though - not a Luke-gets-injured problem. Though Force knows he's been that more than enough! :rolleyes: But in a continuous stream of stories, about a limited amount of characters, written by dozens of differet writers - how the heck could every detail be maintained and brought to end? And even on this Luke therad we have to admit that his injuries are a minor detail. So details will continously be forgotten - unless it's a wee detail that the random writer remembers and can use for his/her story.

    This, I didn't get. Care to ellaborate? [face_batting]

    So the problem in one book(series) was that they all got killed - and in the next that the villain didn't get killed? As a co-fan I respect and take your opinion to account - but if I was in change of Lucasbooks or a writer - it really wouldn't be much to work from, would it? ;)
  23. kataja Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Read Jade Solitaire today - in an effort to cure my annoying Zahnofobia ;) It's written right after VOTF, so it should be no wonder Luke & his kin pop up no more than three times in it. It was a bit obvious, maybe, but also this kind of sit-by-the fire-and-eat-chocolate story with accompagnying logics - so it was fine with me. Most fun is a moment where Mara fears of loosing her lightsaber and reflects that it was once Luke's and he'll kill her if she looses it so she'd better get it back. Luke in general killing people for loosing stuff is of course so OOC that it has to be read as Mara will kill herself if she looses this gift from him! :p I'm not all a fan of having to put all character's musings out of context and into a larger one - but here it did work very well, I admit that! =D=
  24. Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 8
    :D

    Sounds about right, Ben!

    Back in NJO, when we could count our darksiders on a hand, Lomi and Welk are relatively big loose ends :p

    Tatooine Ghost is one of Denning's best novels, I must say. Star by Star, Inferno, Tatooine Ghost. The top three Denning novels, for me.

    To be honest, I reckon Abeloth will be sorted out in whatever Ten Knights novel we eventually get. She has a finite ending, now. The Mortis loose end feels Lucas imposed to me, a little bit. They could have had Abeloth's Planet *be* Mortis, if they wanted, and wrap up the Dagger of Mortis plotline earlier... have Raynar head to the Killiks earlier, for example.
  25. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    Hmm, quite seriously, what would you say the difference is between a broken or failed trust? I don't mind a writer engaging in mystery, but a condition for a good mystery is that it gets resolved - preferably in a way you didn't see coming but which is utterly coherent with what info you had before. I'm not at all certain Denning succeeds in this respect, instead layering haze upon haze to conceal that there isn't that much there.

    The problem surely is that the injuries are presented as a big deal, wouldn't you say? Sure, we can end up with Luke being akin to Batman:

    "Hey, wasn't your back broken?"
    "It got better!"
    "Oh, OK."

    But it isn't really very satisfying and doing that actively undermines the next writer's efforts, as while they know they can disregard it, the readers don't see it as anything of consequence, Luke'll be fine in the next book! What is needed? Coordination, which is more accurately the role of an editor rather than a writer. An editor can look at the big picture and say: "OK, A leads to B, therefore B must reflect what went on in A..." - which is basic continuity. At the same time, the character can and should be written in such a way as to recognise the injury without unduly disempowering them. Not easy to pull off but that's why SW EU employs pro writers with an established track record, they should be able to do this.

    Sinny has a rare ability to take the most infuriatingly illogical, out-of-left-field developments, general craziness and whatever other wackiness DR come up with and somehow render order out of the chaos! For instance, it's a running in-joke between us that Apocalypse would break his skills - it didn't and I'm now wondering what will!

    Perhaps, but the focus of NJO was the Vong wasn't it and that story was wrapped up.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.