Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

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    star 4
    I was being hyperbolic with Anakin and the rest of the Solo kids, they indeed have(had) potential there is no argument there but to say they would all pick up what Luke could do in half the time doesn't mesh despite them being aware of the Force at a much earlier age, also to say the older generation doesn't keep up due to their experiences doesn't make any sense. I mean how long has it taken for Jaina to be a proper jedi master ? With the Skywalkers they all have seemingly unique traits with the Force besides being extraordinary strong, Anakin Sr. had great willpower, Leia (despite having instances of anger) kept her feelings and emotions in check, and Luke could pick up abilities in a extraordinary fast amount of time. Now I think Anakin Jr. might have also had this gift as well, but both Jacen and Jaina had other gifts. Jaina was piloting and Jacen's was communicating with animals.

    also what makes you think that Luke would be at the same level of power at 10 years ?

    .
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Jan 3, 2013
  2. ChildOfWinds Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    I am SO far behind !!!

    kataja:
    Yes, but I think it was a quiet, internal, "wishful-thinking" kind of jealousy. It was not the sort of thing that Luke would ever act on, but would quietly suffer in silence, saying nothing about his own feelings for Mara... until Mara brought up the topic in VotF.








    MasterSkywalker86:
    f

    Maybe so. Or, maybe he knew that Luke would be too weak to focus his mind to fight the poison through the Force?

    Proabably! Plus, he gave the impression that all of those people needing his help was hard for him to ignore and was trying to get away where he could tune some of the "noise" out.


    Yes, Yoda said this. But as I said before, once he realized that Luke *WAS* going to leave his training and go to Bespin, (where he would likely have faced Vader), Yoda truly should have told Luke the truth so he wouldn't hear it from the man who was his enemy, but from a trusted friend/mentor. I don't "buy" that Luke wasn't "ready" as an argument. When is anyone ready to hear the news that his/her father was the second greatest villain in the galaxy.

    And Luke proved Yoda wrong anyway. He was obviously mature enough to deal with the information, because while Luke was stunned, shocked, and horrified to find out that Vader was his father, Luke didn't fall to the dark side and he didn't crawl into a hole and hide or go nuts. Instead, he quietly accepted the loss of his arm and made plans to go save Han.


    That's possible.


    But I think that was only because Jacen/Caedus was handled about his poorly as Luke was. I don't think that Jacen was quite as powerful or skilled as Luke yet, but he was getting closer, and the fact that he was willing to do darkside things that Luke wouldn't be willing to do, could have given Jacen an advantage.

    Yes, things could have been much more interesting and creative, with amazing Force powers utilized, but the execution of both Jacen and Abeloth as adversaries for Luke was poorly done, in my opinion.

    We certainly did! We got a very lame "ending" too.

    There were other powerful Sith too though. Just a few of the Lost Sith were able to defeat two dozen Nightsisters and their rancors. I think that's pretty amazing, especially given the fact that Luke had difficulty facing just one rancor. :(


    Okay, I will grant you that. But then again, Luke was able to defeat a group of Lost Sith right after he had returned from mind-walking, when his body was nearly dead from lack of nourishment. So, why couldn't he defeat Gaalan?


    He did take advantage of Luke's momentary distraction, yes, but at that point, he seemed to think it was more important to take those Nightsisters back to Kesh.... I wonder what happened to them???

    LOL! So you're saying that Luke had a spy working for him? ;):p




    More another time...
  3. SiouxFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2012
    star 3
    Because there is some point at which 'powers' plateau. And why do we feel the need to have Luke be the most powerful? Was Yoda the most powerful Jedi in the Old Order? I have my doubts. The wisest? Certainly; but the most powerful? Maybe, maybe not. The Jedi Order is not run by 'survival of the fittest' rules, is it?

    This, I think, is a failing of the Order. What did Mara achieve to be given Master status? Or Corran? Jaina had WAY more things thrown at her by age thirty than any of them did, yet they were all given 'Master' seemingly because they were all Luke's age.
    Last edited by SiouxFan, Jan 3, 2013
  4. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

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    star 4
    Yoda was confirmed to be the most powerful of the OJO, Anakin would have exceed him if things didn't go south, that's just canon.
    as for powers plateauing Vader felt there were no limits in Luke continually growing(SOTE, Dark Lord), Yoda basically proves what a jedi can do with the years to continually grow.

    as for need for Luke to be the most powerful, the fact remains he is the most powerful jedi of the NJO and he earned it. He has been constantly tested since his younger years to his 60's and he has grown from it, from destroying a death star at age 18, to defeating Palpatine in combat at 28, to resisting the Force potential of trillions of Killiks at his 50's, to defeating a force god more powerful than him multiple times. I don't doubt that a Skywalker could match his power some day but his successor certainly has a long way to go. It's not everyday that you beat the master of the DS before your thirties.;)

    as for Jaina, well she simply focus more on piloting and being a "bug" for a bit then focusing on the Force. I for one am happy to see her grow back to being a jedi and a character. I think she will be Luke's possible successor.
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Jan 3, 2013
  5. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

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    star 4
    I think the idea is when using poison on a Force sensitive the Force would protect them from any lethal toxins but this would leave them incapacitated for a while where non force sensitives would have already died by that point. This leaves the victim immobile and vulnerable to attacks. The same scenario happens to the Jedi General of KOTOR 2.

    as Ben mentioned before Luke was one in a million.

    I agree that Jacen was handled poorly if not worse than Luke, but I never felt that Jacen would be a match for Luke not until many years pass by but even by then why would Luke still be still at his same level ? Caedus was growing in power and abilities yet Luke had a significant lead in power, skill, and experience by being constantly tested in battle. I think one of Jacen's downfalls was being too direct instead of covert, he knew at the he wasn't the biggest fish in the sea so he should have bide his time and play the puppet master. Regardless I would have prefer Jacen to stay an unorthodox jedi instead of being a bad guy.

    exactly, and sadly instead of analyzing the child of the Force/Force entity dynamic they only imply on it briefly.

    I'll say the ending with Jaina's wedding wasn't a bad touch but the climatic fight with Abeloth, Luke, and Krayt wasn't great aside of the fact you could say Luke punch a Force deity in the face;)

    you know they did so by betraying the nightsisters into a trap of their design, right ? that doesn't mean they were necessarily powerful but they had some cunning and were prepared for the nightsisters. the dathomir clan did not have that advantage. Also considering we seen Luke Force toss a rancor before, I imagine at full power everything would be a cakewalk but again the authors always have to "injured" to balance the odds.

    Luke used stealth, grenades, and ambush tactics to defeat those Sith while using the Force to keep him alive, it's not like he took a lightsaber and fought them all directly. He fought using more his wits, near the end then he resorted to fighting Vestara, Vestara's master, and the two no name sith men with his saber but only by last resort.

    Considering Luke was still recovering in Backlash he simply conserve his strength throughout the book, he could have force push every rancor but he resorted to using his saber. He could have Force wave the nightsisters into the ground but he simply use the stone projectiles to fire at them. He could have defeated Gaalan but he took the steady pace. During the entire book Luke was using the Force minimally and that's attributed to his recovery. The same applies to the shuttle, he could have probably pull the shuttle down with effort but he let it go. Remember this was a telekinetic grip that another Skywalker could not break, so I imagine Luke did not use his full power on pulling the ship.

    Gaalan took the distraction cause he knew he wouldn't win that duel, also the Kesh value deeds more so than logic. So killing the grand master of the enemy would have been very high on the to do list then picking up some nightsisters wouldn't you say ?

    also who knows about those nightsisters.

    not at all [face_not_talking] :p simply Luke would have made small talk about it with Kyle.
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Jan 3, 2013
  6. Nobody145 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 4
    I think Jacen was possibly second only to Luke, and of course at the time Jacen wasn't a match for Luke, but given enough time he could have been. There have been occasional cases of those who have fallen getting a sudden power boost. As Yoda said, the darkside was... quicker, easier? Of course it comes with a price, like going crazy, but usually darksiders are too far gone to care. Besides, there are artifacts out there that could boost someone's power and given Jacen's travels, who knows what he had seen.

    Also, I'm annoyed that most of Jacen's fights with Luke weren't much longer than his battles with the Tribe. But then most of those battles were just random skirmishes, but if Jacen could tie with Luke, at least for a while, its annoying that all those various Lords and Ladies could hold off Luke as well, which makes Jacen look even worse. But then he was always somewhat of a joke of a villain, crazy, not too bright (at least compared to the heroes). I think the younger one can sometime win, luck or the Force is often involved, but that's partially due to disappointment at how not epic the Luke vs. Jacen battle could have been, since instead Jaina had to step in after Luke was "tainted" :rolleyes: and then for most of FotJ we saw Luke just tangling with random people. The exhaustion and greater numbers excuse can only be used so many times, and they dragged it out long past when it was interesting.

    I'm a Luke fan, but its easy to dismiss bad portrayals as bad writing because you know Luke is supposed to be the hero of the saga, or at least one of the foremost heroes. Jacen was one of the next generation heroes, but then they took him on a really weird journey. First they had him as sort of like a protestor for like half the Vong War, while Anakin and Jaina did the more normal traditional stuff like defend the galaxy, then Anakin died and after a really weird training period, then Jacen took the lead and helped won the war. Then after all of that they just shoved him into the villain position and his list of heinous acts just keep getting longer as time goes by, and his motivations are even more... contradictory than they were in Betrayal. I can't speak for everyone, but even after all the lessons, about his grandfather, possibly from Vergere, his lifetime of Jedi training, he really, really messed up and didn't even redeem himself in the end like Anakin Skywalker did. If he were written as helpful or repentant or something sympathetic, it might be easier to like him but even dead he's still a smug jerk and we don't really see what becomes of him after that last conversation in Apocalypse (but Apocalypse doesn't bother to properly finish up a lot of things).

    I think telling Luke about Anakin early on would have been... destabilizing, to say the least. At the time, Luke still had an idealistic image of his father, reinforced by what Obi-wan had told him. If Luke had trained on Dagobah for years, maybe they could have broken it to him gently. Luke has already lost several parental figures (Uncle Owen, Aunt Beru then Obi-wan), wrecking his father image wouldn't have helped. Maybe Luke would still have rushed off to confront Vader, but he could have lost the duel even earlier (like say by being trapped in carbonite) if he had been worried about facing his father, maybe he could have put up a better fight, who knows. If by some fluke he actually won against Vader, Yoda and Obi-wan probably wouldn't have minded too much. They were probably also somewhat surprised at just how... obsessed Vader was with his child, since otherwise he's just been raging for most of the last few decades. I think they had planned to tell him eventually, but fate intervened and it all worked out for the best anyway.
    Last edited by Nobody145, Jan 4, 2013
  7. SiouxFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2012
    star 3
    Yes, you can continually grow, but not at the same rate you were when you started. After a while, any increases in knowldege become incremental. How does one 'earn' to be the most powerful? Does Luke's history put him in position to lead the Order? Certainly. But where are we getting this idea that just because he is the leader means he has to be the most powerful? There are several references to Kyp being more 'powerful', even throwing Luke against the wall when tested. Are we ignoring this? Rationalizing it?

    Why are we treating Luke like he has to be the Alpha Male? The commanding General of the AirForce is NOT the best fighter pilot, the commanding Admiral of the Navy hasn't been on a ship in years, yet they still lead.
  8. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    I'm going to draw on Robi's post and say slamming restrained people's heads into tables with the Force is quite a difference!

    But more seriously, yeah, I'd see the DN onwards as bad writing, I bailed on the era with Betrayal and nothing I've seen written on the board has convinced it was the wrong call. So for me? It doesn't exist.

    But, some of the conversations I've had have convinced me that the problems with stories like LOTF is less conceptual than execution. Selling me the notion of a second civil war and Jacen going dark, especially given his NJO role, was always going to be a tough sell, but impossible? No, I don't think so. For instance, some time back you and I had a great exchange about what Luke should have done to Jacen and you brought in the psychiatric angle. I think that could have made LOTF probably work far better, but it would have also required far finer handling than what was demonstrated.

    Changing tack, I'm in the minority here but I'm not interested in God-Power Skywalker nor, to be honest, Killer Luke. What determines Jedi rank and reputation should be far more than power alone, it shouldn't be down to a telekinetic bench-pressing contest! Equally, when I read that Luke's about to duel a Sith, who knows the can't win, he says he'll make it quick, I can't help but find the portrait being conjured quite unrecognisable!
  9. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

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    exactly what instances ? if you're talking about the force sensitive test in JAT, both Leia's and Luke's results also had a"kickback" effect it wasn't indicative of power but more of if they possess the Force or not. Also I seem to remember in TUF Kyp was not able to best one dying Slayer where Luke killed 8 on his own. The only thing I recall that Kyp was able to match Luke was to pull the same dovin basil trick in NJO without collapsing, but we now know Luke was restraining his Force use. Originally KJA's plan was to make Kyp "the new hotness" but that didn't fly at all with LFL.

    cause it has been firmly established in his character since 1977 and has been canon for the last 35 years :p. To me it's part of his character alongside his farmboy earnestness, it's a trait of that character. Also it's not due to just simply his heritage, unlike Leia Luke has been pushed to his limits since ANH. It's true that the Grand Master rank isn't associated with one's force ability but one's leadership skills but Luke just happens to be the most powerful that holds that rank.

    Now as for comparison about jedi ranks to actual military ranks, I don't seem to remember active Generals being on the front lines of modern warfare and by that I mean actively firing their weapons at the enemy..while Luke has participated in just about every war with his saber or x-wing since the Galactic Civil War.
  10. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

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  11. kataja Force Ghost

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    Agree on your analysis, save that we have no idea of what Jem what actually like. It's not that we get much idea out from DE... My personal theory, of course, is that it was the Force that killed her because she wasn't the right for Luke. Only, it used those Dark Siders as tools. Later it used Abeloth to make sure Luke wouldn't hook up with anyone more than Mara :p In general, the Force is a tough matchmaker for Skywalkers - and if needed it doesn't even insist on the traditional ways - like when Anakin was conceived.

    Leia doesn't know how ´lucky she's been o_O

    I bet a cup of warm drink of own choise ([face_coffee] ) that "Luke's personal story" will already be finshed by the start of ep 7 and next generation in the leading roles. But I bet a second cup that we''ll return to his story in movies after the SQ!!!

    Agreed. He was my major trial throughout NJO...

    I remember liking Dark Tide [face_thinking] And there are adorable scenes in Union + the abut that in itself is adroable -a dn when is a SW story about a qwedding? !? So huge cudo's for that! But I don't like start of I, Jedi, not that scene in Union.

    The old versus the young is a classic confrontation and it's always a question of if but when the young and powerful beats the old, no matter how much experience. It's simple biology. But as you say yourself, Jacen simply wasn't powered up enough. Luke is still too close to his peak about 40 ABY - and Jacen too much a wannabe. I think they hade the choise to either make him super evil and stay alive for several storylines, until he could truly threaten anyone - or they could do what they did - use him in that one story arch but at least still clinching on to the belief he was doing what he was doing for a good cause. I prefer what they did, part because I think Jacen was bad enough as it was, I didn't wamt to see Han & Leia's kid lose the last excuse (valid or not) - and becasue ti think that story line needed an end. But then, that's just me.


    I liked that i FOTJ too. What it means, we'll find out I guess, tmie will show - but I think way it was written made me cautiosly optimiestic. As you say, Luke was too personally involved to be able to be warm - but situation taken into concern, it was positive taht they at least talked!

    Anything interesting in those references?

    Match for? No. Threat to? Yes. He was an extremely powerful Jedi with a lot of tricks in his backpocket. Add to that he was ruthless, and ruthless is always a threat. In time, Jacen might have become as powerful, maybe even more - but I think 'a few more years' is a definite underestimation of Luke's own constant growing in the Force.

    Oh, absolutely! In general, Luke's not one to ever act out of jealousy, particularly not witha girl who he has no claim on. He's far too respectful! We see a little moping maybe when comes to Leia - when he's really really young - but the moment he know Leia's made her choise, he accepts it completely!

    I like your points, I really do. And maybe Yoda should have told Luke. But that doesn'´t neceassary "make Luke ready". He IS very emotional and reckless when he realizes his friends are in danger - and I can definitely see why Yoda chooses not to tell him - particlularly if it is as I've staretd to think, that Yoda believeøs Vader won't know or care. I don't necessarily agree - but I can see his points! And the fact that Luke ovcome sthe shock and turns it inot one of his finest hours, doesn't mean he was 'ready' either. He could have broken, had he been just a but less the man he is.

    I don't remember that fight much, but I rememebr it as Luke was surprised he couldn't do it as easily as he'd thught - which means he's unedrestimated Gaalan. And underestimating an opponent is a classical reason why the weaker might just survive a fight he otherwise wouldn't have. Also, is it ever said Luke couldn't beat Gaalan - it's only that he couldn't do it as quickly or easily as he'd thought.

    Not at all. And Luke doesn't have to be the most powerful just for the sake of it. I've always thought he's best whe he's 'just Luke' as a person. Or when he shows other resources. But fact is, as much as anything is fact in SW (whihc isnøt muhc, I admit:p) that Luke's the son of Anakin Skywlaker who was this megamidichlorianist + the the st whateever - and GL has stated taht Luke could become this most powerdful Frce user of all time or whatever (as Anakin didn't) . And as Luke's both by heritage and time ahead of everyone else, plus has been dedicating hismelf to the job completely, I think it's erasonable to assume he's seriusly good with the Force when he's in his mid life. Also, in GFFA 60 is no age. A Luke advacing 100 and I'll be completely fine he's well over his peak - but 60 - not yet. I'd give him at elast ten more years before he'd start to slow down - adn the curve wuld be very soft for the first time.

    A straightout failing? Hmm. The New Order is rebuilt from scratch. If they're changing praxis, I'd see it more as a sign they dare to learn from their mistakes.

    Me too - on both! Unless her role will be in the Empire. Ayway, I excpect great things from her!

    Now all he has to do is pull Kyle Katarn in the beard and his list of daring deeds will be complete! :p

    Hmm... You bring in a lot of things into what I still get the feeling is one point. I absolutely agree to the last thing - the leader is generally the leader not because can do everything but becasue he's the best to lead. But in some areas, he's become the leader becasue he s' the best - or he's the senior. In Luke's case it wold definitely be the last, but I also think he's still the best, partly due to his experience, partly his hertage and partly his dedication. The heritage stuff is a GL statement; he's said at some point taht the son could be all what the father didn'tbut what exactly that was, I'm sure some one else remembers better than me. The leadreship thing is something Luke's learned the hard way - he was in no way a great leader in the early time of the New Order, so as Luke- lover, I love to see him so we... alpha male, as you call it, as it really is a "wow - finally"- feeling for me. FYI , I facepalmed myself thought most of the Bantams. As for Kyp, well, it seems to me that claiming he's the most powerful doesn't add up with GL stating that Anakin and the his son were the most pwerful - but if someone can explain it to me in a way it makes sense even to my small brain, then I'm willing to listen. :D But as I said above - I don't really care for powerlevels - I just want to see good Luke moments. That's what I come for in Star Wars, and I'm not going excuse myself about it, particulary not in this thread! But I'd take a good Luke & Mara snark anytime before some Force feat.

    I 'm wiht you in that minority., then.
    Last edited by kataja, Jan 4, 2013
  12. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Is Luke really an alpha male character though? I'd dispute that, if anyone's closer to that, it's Han, not Luke, who he's often contrasted with.
  13. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    But that was the only option? Seems limited. I think that's what I'd like Luke to be allowed to demonstrate - creativity, it's one of his key traits but infrequently shown. Then again, can't have anyone being effective can we?
    MasterSkywalker86 likes this.
  14. kataja Force Ghost

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    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    I was wondering the same thing. In ANH, Han was the guy every guy wanted to be like. Luke was the whiner/dreamer and many people have never forgiven him for that. IMO Luke's always been much more the underdog, who by hard work and refusal to spare himself, has worked himself up. He's constantl been questionned and challenged, and if he's become the Alpha Male at some point, it's not before FOTJ. Maybe he finally is it by then - and maybe that's why I love that series, no matter what happens on Coruscant during it! :p

    But Luke's definitely a guy who was put in a alpha male-situation, long before he was ready to handle it. Only he refused to give up and grew with the challenge.
  15. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

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    May 8, 2005
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    alpha male in the sense of how Superman and Captain America are. Their humility and good nature outshines their more powerful attributes in my book.

    let's see, the sith wouldn't back down, the jedi were in a dark side nexus planet where their abilities weakened while the Sith were strengthen and the sith weren't there to take prisoners and the jedi were on a urgent mission to find Abeloth. The situation didn't allow for more options and I believe that sith that Luke made the comment to took it as offensive.
    kataja likes this.
  16. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    I'm a sucker for dark side planets, so out of curiosity, this one was?
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  17. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

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    May 8, 2005
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    Dromund Kaas or Korriban I forget which. but it was one or the other
  18. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

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    Sep 3, 2012
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    Dromund Kaas, IIRC. They found nothing on Korriban.
    MasterSkywalker86 likes this.
  19. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

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    right, I think it was Korriban where Vestara left the message to the Sith hounds
  20. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

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  21. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

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    true the few panels of dialogue don't really paint her character well enough, but oddly enough I'm starting to see why JB likes this type of art [face_hypnotized] I recently finish DE so I might be coming off a DE high :p

    lol that's a little harsh for the Force don't you think ? :p

    she has it easy in the relationship department.

    I'm hoping that your second cup is right although I wouldn't mind to see it around the NR era.

    he did have Luke use the Force to drop a table on a thug during the bar fight but that was about it in Union. He handle Luke well in Onslaught save for the Force unconsciousness due to Luke restricting his Force use.

    it will happen true enough but as we see the case in RotS power isn't everything in a fight. If Luke is by his peak around 40 ABY then he has double the ability of the Emperor. Personally I don't think Luke is quite there yet but it's safe to assume he bypass the Emperor in power. I think Jacen had just pass Vader in power perhaps but he had a ways to go to reach Luke's level, aside of the scene in TUF(which wasn't of his own doing by his own admittance) Jacen hadn't done many feats that are Skywalker worthy in my book.

    exactly =D= Jacen should have been a schemer Sith, cause neither his swordplay or Force abilities were up to par with Luke's. Though I find it ironic that he didn't get a shot at fighting Kyp though considering he was the #2 in the Order until the Solos started growing [face_thinking]

    QFT

    that's how I feel as well, I think there really wasn't a good option with the scenario cause either way he would have been demoralized by it during the fight. Luke recovers well enough despite the impact in ESB but by then he lost the fight. I feel he would have been confused during the entire confrontation had he been told earlier.

    actually that wasn't at the duel, that was when he was trying to Force pull the shuttle down but Gaalan counter him. At this point I took it that Luke didn't give it his all.

    Gaalan struck at Luke, high, low, a series of subtle and sophisticated blows that would have bewildered any lesser duelist. He was good; Luke gave him that. He might have been a match for an expert swordsmaster such as Kyp or Kyle Katarn. He would have been too much for a comparatively diffident duelist such as Cilghal, or even Luke as he had been back at Sinkhole Station, at low ebb in physical and mental strength.

    But Luke, despite recent exertions, had had time to recover. He parried each of Gaalan's blows, and his ripostes—his blade skittering off Gaalan's and thrusting now at the Sith Lord's face, now at shoulder or knee or torso—came increasingly close to touching flesh. Luke smiled.

    Luke reached after it, a clear exertion of telekinetic Force power, then dropped his hand. He looked rueful. "He's countering my power."

    considering we seen Luke resist a Force push back up by the potential of trillion of Killiks and Luke's Force use had been minimal during the entirety of the book it's likely he didn't give his best shot.


    I don't think any of us arguing that point ;)

    exactly =D= the quote is from the Rolling Stone Interview with George Lucas at the release of RotS.

    "Which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor -- he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become, but the son could become that."-GL

    Palpatine became the strongest Sith of all time(read Darth Plagueis and DE to see why) the Force struck back and brought forth Anakin and his line, who could be much more powerful than him that way they would have no problem in disposing him. Anakin killed him in RotJ, but the Force knew that wouldn't have been the end of Palpatine and therefore Luke and Leia were needed as shown in DE.

    that's another point Anakin and Luke didn't become powerful by heritage alone....they have been constantly tested over and over.

    shhh you'll give Del-Rey ideas[face_shhh] :p

    lol the funny thing is most of the feats mentioned about Luke were true....like Palpatine had nightmares about Luke and feared him, was a line in RotJ novelization adapted by the Lawrence Kasdan screenplay.

    I wouldn't say Luke has been a bad leader but he has always been constantly learning how to lead the Jedi Order, from him taking over the NJO in DN to Apocalypse I feel he has done a much better job of leadership than he had in the past.

    In Dark Journey Kyp made the infamous line that he was more powerful than Luke, but it was later to confirmed by the author that it wasn't true it was what Kyp believe during the time. After the scene in TUF where he struggled with one Slayer while Luke defeated 8 I think we now know who's more powerful......it's R2-D2 of course :p
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Jan 4, 2013
  22. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Trust in me...

    [IMG]

    You will love the art of Dark Empire!

    Now when I snap my fingers, you'll remember nothing of this!

    <SNAP!>
  23. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

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    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    mind tricks are for the weak minded [face_not_talking] :p Plus I still have the image of Luke facing the Force Storm in my mind so don't press your luck :p

    is that the snake from Disney's Robin Hood ? it has been a long time since I seen it
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Jan 4, 2013
  24. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Yup, it's Sir Hiss from Disney's Robin Hood!

    If you want a laugh, track down a copy of this:

    [IMG]

    Kennedy's art is far better suited to Wagner's blackly comic scripts, it's brilliant stuff.
  25. Nobody145 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 4
    I still love that "Who's driving this crazy thing?!" tent moment.

    FotJ had them visit a few darkside planets, because Luke had run out of leads to find the Sith or Abeloth so they had no other ideas other than to just tour old Sith planets. Which is really sad as its a really obvious idea and it does lead them into a trap, but otherwise they're still clueless about Abeloth or even the Tribe's plans which is partially why Luke finally heads back to Coruscant.

    And during all this Vestara still refuses to tell them Kesh's location. And they're surprised when they learn they can't trust her. :rolleyes: Well, her situation and feelings are more than a little complicated, but still, Luke barely had a thing to do with her it was mostly Ben, partially to Luke's displeasure, although possibly his own fatherly concerns were involved too.

    I don't mind seeing Jacen as a schemer to make up for the gap in power between himself and Luke... the problem was that he's a gullible idiot so he couldn't fool anybody most of the time. They didn't attack him outright for legal reasons, but by Inferno he had already lost all credibility with what remained of his family (and he didn't have any friends left either, unless you counted Tenel Ka). He fell for Lumiya and Alema's taunts, Ben figured out pretty quickly he killed Mara, and he had all the subtlety of a turbolaser. Another reason he didn't really make for an impressive or even decent villain. Vader wasn't famous for his subtlety either but he could play the game, partially because he learned from the master of those kinds of things (literally), Palpatine. All Jacen had for teachers were Lumiya and Alema and... yeah, he was in trouble. Well, technically Vergere too but her precise goals are still debatable too.

    Luke said something like that in Ascension? Huh, must have forgotten, it was such a boring book I don't remember much. Anyway, no surprise as that author didn't have the greatest grasp on Luke or Ben's characters (there's that line in Allies that started up a whole thread a while back, not to mention calling them both bachelors traveling around on their own back in Omen). What is it with the disdain for married heroes these days, but then a lot of franchises are often going for reboots to keep their heroes young and relevant or something like that. Not entirely sure Mara's death falls under that reasoning or just as more of their bad storytelling (killing characters= drama!).
    MasterSkywalker86 likes this.