Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Meaning it's a good question right ? ;) I also want to see this but I wouldn't mind showing a few scenes of Luke starting the Order by scratch, teaching apprentices, etc, before we see an established Order. I want to see Luke creating the NJO from it's infancy before we see it in it's more establish stage.

    That would be great, while it's a given Luke will be older one way or another ;) the question is how many years older ? I'm hoping for 30's to 40's, as Luke and Mara could have kids sooner than say their late 40's if the new films don't follow all the canon of the books.

    =D= YES! =D=(stopping an invasion fleet with telekinesis would be a step in the right direction [face_praying] ) also it shouldn't be just one showing either, a few wow moments would seem appropriate as it would show that Luke is well verse in all ways of the Force since his days with Yoda. Imagine Luke struggling to Force lift the X-wing in Dagobah, now imagine him years later Force lifting a whole squadron of X-wings..or a fleet as a warmup exercise

    that also goes without saying.

    I think so....it's been a long time since I read the earlier NJO books.

    point, I suppose the authors are responsible in some respects. Killing off Mara was a group decision and it will always bug me that nobody thought this was a bad idea in the making.
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Jan 9, 2013
  2. ChildOfWinds Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    MasterSkywalker86:
    Definitely!


    I really need to reread that comic book!







    SiouxFan:
    I don't think you're mis-remembering, because I'm sure I heard that too. I know I heard that he "pitched" his story idea to Del Rey, and that's not a term that I use, so either Denning said it or someone said that Denning did it.






    Jedi Ben:
    Exactly!!!! And except for SbS, Denning was VERY much involved in the planning and direction of the post -RoTJ SW universe. Pretty much everything but DN has had his fingerprints all over it despite what he said in that interview. I believe that what he said was true of his first book in the SW universe... SbS, but not the rest. Yes, LFL had to approve everything, but I'm pretty sure most of it came from the authors, and they were all led by Denning. So I blame the authors AND LFL for giving Denning and Company too much power and not enough of a leash.






    MasterSkywalker86:
    I believe that Del Rey's editors were heavily involved in planning the NJO, but I don't think they had as much input post NJO.


    I did order it, but I don't know when I'll get it. I'm hoping there will be LOTS of Luke in it!


    I thought it was a good question, yes.

    I really don't think we're going to see this in the sequel trilogy, MS. I might be wrong, but I don't think so. I think it will take place about 25 - 30 years post RotJ, because there were 20 years between the first two trilogies, and I would think Lucas would want at least a couple of decades between the OT and ST. I think time is needed to establish the Jedi Order.

    But I do think that maybe we'll see those earlier years of Luke establishing the Order in an animated series or in some later films with new actors.


    I'm not sure they'll go that far, MS! ;) But I do hope we get at least one really great Luke feat scene.

    I'm glad you agree!


    I think the authors are VERY responsible. I think they have a lot more autonomy than Denning's interview suggests. I think what he said may have been the case during Del Rey's early days, when the NJO was planned by a group of authors and editors, and new authors were given a segment of the story to write and had to adhere to it. But I think since the end of the NJO, things have been a lot looser...and Denning has been the main "mastermind" of the plots and direction of the post-RotJ SW EU. In my opinion, that has been a big problem.

    Definitely!
  3. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    I hear Leia, Luke, and Wedge start off the series, but the first issue seems to focus on Leia. Perhaps the next issue will center on Luke.


    you never know, plus it would make sense to have ST be closer to the OT in years due to the Empire still being around.

    that too, although I would prefer that via film....but w/e....it'll great to witness Luke in a visual medium again.

    why not ? Especially now with superhero films and their incredible feats of strength. I don't think they would hold that back from Luke but I do think they would only demonstrate the "WOW" moments a few times in each film due to it causing a deus machinma issue.
  4. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    What if Luke dies in Episode 7?

    Kinda like Luke's mentors did in the OT?

    Won't that be fun?
  5. Nobody145 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 4
    I don't mind heroic deaths if they are epic, memorable, or at least, well, heroic and achieve a significant goal. It took a moon to kill Chewie and his last act was saving Anakin Solo. Anakin died on a mission to take out dangerous creatures. Ganner died taking on an entire army by himself (and he was winning most of the battle).

    Mara, Isolder, Pellaeon and Jacen's deaths were all just as victims, failures, or outright villains... which I hated. If we have to lose characters like this, can't they go out as heroes? And in Jacen's case they're still adding things even after his death (and none of it is an improvement).

    I actually liked the JAT in terms of setting up a new Jedi Order. Not the best written or most entertaining or logical trilogy (seriously, Luke should have moved the academy off Yavin after Gantoris' death, which I think several later books bring up), but at least it showed Luke basically starting from scratch. He had some personal experience, had found a few Force sensitives, including at least one former Jedi, dug up as much lore as he could, had defeated the Emperor twice (or thrice, depending on how you view the whole Dark Empire thing), and the war with the Empire had basically wound down to nothing almost (they were doing a pretty good job of killing themselves off by then with warlords fighting it out). So it seemed like a nice quiet time to set up a new Jedi Order, and by later books it was implied the academy was mostly running by itself, with enough senior students to handle things in Luke's absence.

    Then post-NJO, everyone now has a uniform, a hierarchy, a central base, etc. Good relations with the galactic government are important, as is the ability to split off if said galactic government goes wrong, but still, the prequel Jedi Order had worked its system out through centuries of practice, Luke's New Jedi Order hasn't even existed for one human lifespan yet.

    I have read the new Star Wars #1, its quite good, very well written and excellent artwork, although Luke isn't really the focus character. He's still young, inexperienced, but brave and well-meaning and just nice in general, so I enjoyed the issue a lot, although with the way things are shaping up, not sure how much focus he'll get. This is still post-Yavin Luke, so he's still coping with a lot of things, so he seems even younger than he does in the Empire/Rebellion series where he's somewhat settled into being a Rebel. I recommend it, its just a good series and well written Luke is another plus too. No idea about the exact timeline placement, but it hasn't caused any huge continuity problems yet (sometimes an era is so crowded its unavoidable, other times a minor line screws up a lot of things, particularly in the bigger projects), so I'm liking a lot. Not as "bad" as the Allegiance or Choices of One Luke for those who disliked that (and I didn't mind those that much either, since I just think of it as post-Yavin and pre-Hoth as mostly the same Luke and don't bother with the exact details such as whether Luke has encountered Vader on Mimban yet or not), so I'd recommend, to show support for Dark Horse at least (and I'm not bothering to follow all those Darth Vader and whatever miniseries either so I can save money for this), since who knows how much longer they'll keep the comic license.
    Last edited by Nobody145, Jan 10, 2013
  6. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    I'd like to think that SotME never happened; that it was just a dream! ;)
  7. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    I wouldn't like the idea to begin with even if they handle with care. It would seem to be rather disappointing to see the hero of the last trilogy to just up and die in the first new movie after all the hardships and sacrifices.Considering Lucas didn't allow his death in the books kind of reassures me that they might not go the "del-Rey" route with the ST
  8. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Also the sequel trilogy doesn't necessarily have to follow the previous film tropes beat for beat. At least not all of them.
  9. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    On whihc pic doesn't she have eyes? :confused:

    Yay!! :D

    I'm not all sure that means tehre will be mostly Han in it...the way he says it, I think it means more that the story will be driven by a slight feeling of chaos. But let's see.

    Rerading it, it actually seems impossible that table could have dropped down on the guy any other way.

    Well, I don't know what you've read ;) but something like taht has been claimed. IMO it should be take with a grain of salt, though. It's true that Denning's been involved in all three big storylines since, even wrote one of them alone (DNT) - but that doesn't mean he's neither dictating not deciding anything. It's been LFL and Del Rey (don'tknow the powerbalance there) taht have been deciding what they want - the authors can come up with ideas how to make that possible. I think Denning has a lot of ideas, though, that's why he's been 'used'. But that doesn't mean he can choose whibc ideas actually will be executed.

    I ask the same. How is it Luke-wise?

    If I write it, I'll send you a note ;)

    [:D] May the Force we with us, then!

    I've read something similar but consider, that none of us know the prehistory to that idea.

    Yes, but why was that a bad idea in itself? Anakin turned dark. Luke turned dark. Kyp turned dark, Kyle did, Jaina almost did + a number of others. Star Wars is full of people turning dark. Few of those stories are actually very dark. It's so easy for us to sit and say this doesnøt work, and that doesn't eitehr. But when you sit at the other end of the table and try to work out a story, you have ideas where you want it to go - but that'snot the same as the end result becmoing even close t what you envisioned. I mean - who wants to make a bad story? No one! But the process is harder than it seems.

    Well, if he dies, I hope it will be in a scene that's more heroic than traditionally 'ha-ha' fun. ;)

    Personally I don't care if he dies in Ep 7. As long as he gets some good scenes and a good legacy. I do, however, hope that they do something creative with his death, so that it's not just another predictable 'mentor dies' scene. Not because it's Luke, but because it's so expectable that he will die in the ST... What could be really "fun", is that they managed to cheat us somehow!

    This is basically my opinions as well.


    Sounds very nice! :) I've read that this is placed two or three months after ANH, so it's before the Rebellion comics - and here he would still be very green. No problem wth that at all.
  10. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Uh, yeah... And if it had, every Sith or Darksider would have gone:

    Hey, got a load of Jedi wannabes in the part of the galaxy you want to take over? Easy solution! Kill one of 'em and they'll run quick!
    kataja likes this.
  11. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    If that had been done 20 years and in the right way? Stunning, revolutionary and brilliant.

    Now or in a few years? Dull, repetitive, hackneyed, unoriginal.

    SW needs a better way of handling generational relations beyond killing off the members of one or the other!
    MasterSkywalker86 likes this.
  12. ChildOfWinds Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    MasterSkywalker86 :
    I hope so!

    .
    Exactly!!! I didn't think we'd ever see Luke in a "visual medium" again, and now it looks like we will!







    Robimus:
    No, that wouldn't be fun.... I'm hoping it won't happen.... As you said, we already saw Luke's mentors die in the OT, I'd like to see the filmmakers take a different route. Let's finally see the head of a Jedi Order who remains a mentor and head of the Jedi Order throughout the ST, even if other younger characters get to be the main heroes and get most of the action roles. As I said to MS, I would like to see Luke get at least one great WOW! moment, and I'd like to see Luke get to accomplish something in the ST, but I am prepared to see Luke mostly used as a supporting character to the next generation. But I don't want to see a repeat of the earlier SW films, so I'm hoping Luke will survive the trilogy and continue to be an inspiration and mentor for younger Jedi.






    Nobody145:
    I agree with that. But I also hope that we won't have to lose Luke in the new films.


    I disagree. In the first place, did they even have ships on Yavin IV? I thought that they didn't.... Wasn't Mara's the only one and that's why Kyp took it? But aside from that, what are you teaching future Jedi Knights if you have them run at the first sign of trouble? And if they had left, they wouldn't have eliminated Exar Kun. Those young Jedi (with Luke's help), managed to accomplish an impressive feat: they rid the galaxy of an ancient Sith Lord's spirit.

    And once Exar Kun was gone, there was absolutely NO reason to leave Yavin IV. It was indeed the perfect place for a Jedi Academy.

    That's a good point, N. That fact makes it even more disappointing that there was that purge of the new Order at the time of the Legacy comics.

    I'm glad that it sounds like Luke is being characterized well in SW 1.







    Tim Battershell:
    Yes, that sounds good to me too, TB. I really didn't like SotME at all!







    MasterSkywalker86:

    I completely agree with you about this, MS. I also agree that the ST doesn't need to follow everything that the OT did. In fact, I'm hoping the story will be new and different and refreshing. I don't want to see repetition. Let's have more creativity.







    kataja:

    Well, since Denning said that most other books are Leia-driven or Luke-driven (and I don't agree with this, by the way), Denning seems to be saying that the book will be a book in which Han will be the major character, because what would a "Leia-driven" or Luke-driven book be like except on where each of them is the most important character?

    .
    And I think that the editors and LFL have just let him pretty much do what he wants to do. They seem to have pretty much "rubber-stamped" whatever he and he co-authors wanted. It was Denning who wanted to turn Jacen into a Sith. It was Travis who decided someone should die as Jacen's "Sith Sacrifice" . (Though Sith don't really sacrifice!) And it was she who decided it would be Mara who died, even though Mara was no sacrifice for Jacen. At that point, he didn't care about her at all.

    The other two authors went along with the idea, and the editors and LFL "rubber-stamped" it. The authors somehow believed that once Jacen went completely bad that there was nothing they could do with him but kill him, and that was allowed as well.

    Denning was certainly responsible for the whole "beyond shadows" thing and those faces in the lake, and on and on. LFL didn't come up with most of these ideas. It was Denning and the other authors who did. LFL and the editors just approved it. How they could approve of all of this stuff I really don't understand though, so they're guilty too of not reining in some of these not-so-good-ideas.


    Sounds good!


    First of all, I think you've answered your own question. It was a bad idea because it's been WAY overdone. Secondly, Denning went way overboard with Jacen. Jacen became an evil Sith Lord like his grandfather. That should NEVER have happened, in my opinion. Why should two Skywalkers become Sith Lords????

    AND, don't forget: Luke DIDN'T turn dark!!!!!!!!!!! He was like an undercover agent on Byss, not an evil darksider.









    Jedi Ben:
    Exactly, JB!!!!! I don't think Luke should have taken his Jedi apprentices off of Yavin IV either. And look at what they accomplished in the end!!!!



    I agree one thousand percent, JB!!!
  13. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Nobody
    That's good news then, considering this is only 2 months from ANH I expect Luke to be green. I only ask that while he's not experienced that he doesn't appear helpless as we witness in Allegiance. He should be as capable as he was in ANH and resourceful, with minimal Force use.

    all of the black and white ones [face_laugh] Of course it could be just me :p also the rest of the characters look off as well in the TTT sourcebook.

    that's also a good point

    seems likes Nobody enjoy it.


    thanks I was beginning to think I was the only one who felt this way.
  14. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    So no character death in the EU or Episode 7?
  15. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Haven't had your fill yet with the current EU ? :p
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Jan 11, 2013
  16. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    It could be several things. It could be mostly Han's POV f.ex - that's not at all the same as he's more "important" than the others. Or, as I'm guessing, it could be a story where the emotion from a typical Han POV drives the plot onwards. In one word that would be: "chaos." You write Han - you think out of the box constantly.

    Like I'd forget that! ;)


    Second that!!!

    Um, are you looking for a particular answer?
  17. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    That's an entirely different question Robi! The point of my initial answer is that tricks that impress greatly the first time around rarely do on the second thus something else is needed.

    Although, where characters like Daala are concerned, Sly's line from Expendables 2 applies: Why is it those of us deserve to die don't and those that deserve to live die?

    Great EU death scenes for me? Ton Phanan, Ulic Qel-Droma, Kol Skywalker, Nat Skywalker - probably a few others.
  18. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Jan 11, 2013
  19. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Oh, it's going down a storm by most accounts!
  20. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    have you read it yourself ? if so what's your take ?
  21. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    I'll be getting the trade, so will tell you in 6-7 months maybe!
  22. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    hmmmm, now I might be interested to take a look. Looks like the Big 3 are still relevant and sell well as long as the story, characters, and the execution is well done despite what some EU fans might have you think.
  23. ChildOfWinds Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    MasterSkywalker86:
    Yes, I agree.







    kataja:
    True, and that would be okay.

    Which is fine as long as it isn't just Han who is "thinking outside of the box" and coming up with solutions to everything.


    So why did you include Luke in your list? :confused:







    MasterSkywalker86:
    Sounds good. I hope I like it as much as the person who wrote the review did, and I hope I like Luke's characterization.


    Which is great news! However, I'm very disappointed with the large number of people who seem to want Luke to die in Episode 7. (in the Episode VII forum). I'm also annoyed that so many people in a thread about what they don't want to see in future books here in Lit, keep saying that they don't want to see more of the Big Three in general and Luke in particular in fuure stories. :(:mad:
  24. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    I think that has more to do with the handle of the Big 3 in the last 18 books more so than anything. Arguably Del-Rey was asking a lot from their old fans and even from their new ones.On the other hand you have Mindor and Star Wars #1 that prove fans still want to read about Luke and co. when the stories are done well. In fact the first issue sold out not too long ago, so I like to think some fans are fickle since they aren't getting the stories they want(i.e. lack of diversity). I think more good stories with the Big 3 will make fans come around, With the ST, for everyday fans who never read the books this will be the first time they'll see Luke and co on the Big screen since 83 or 97. That'll be the audience that the films will cater too, so it makes less sense that they would killed one of their central characters. I'm with Ben on this one they should have the old and new generation work together. I would like to see Luke as central hero of the classic generation, and Jaina as the main heroine of the new generation. There is a way to have the most powerful jedi master team up with his young apprentice niece.....ever seen Avengers ? There is a part for everyone from a thunder god to a man who fire a bow:cool: also Invasion and TUF had a nice balance of the new and old generation.

    another thing to consider is that negative emotions are easier to convey over the interwebs than anything positive, as a Star Wars I can say I'm guilty of this as is most of fandom ;)
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Jan 11, 2013
  25. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    I'm arguing with myself as it is whether that will´be my move too. That's usually what I do...

    [QUOTEChildofWinds]So why did you include Luke in your list?[/QUOTE]
    Because if you think in the sweeping terms of a storyline, the fact whether he turned all dark or not is a detail. It's important in terms of Luke's characterization - but in terms of storyline from the tellers POV, it's a detail. I realize I should have worded it differently, though, said "went to the dark" instead of "turned dark", because one could argue he went to take a look at the dark side from the inside. But then I thought we'd been through that matterso thoroughly so I wouldn't be misunderstood. ;)

    I think you're right. All the fans who haven't discovered the post-OT EU - and they are many! - are now looking for Big 3 adventures to refersh their memories for the ST!

    I saw Harry Potter V yesterday (Order of the Phoenix) and I could actually envision Luke's role a lot like Dumbledore's - absolutely vital - but not very muhc on screen. I also LOVE the battle between Dumbledore and Voldemort in the ministery - there is no doubt Dumbledore is the finest magician who ever existed! Whether L's ending should be like D's, I dunno. I don't have a problem with Luke dying at all, it's pretty much the convetion taht the older generation give way for the youngre in stories - but Í want him to have a central place first!