Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    That's pretty much the problem I'd have with the move K, it's a convention and a very old one at that - I don't think audiences are really after or satisfied with the conventional anymore.
  2. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Your point is always valid - and yet it isn't. ANH is a bunch of convetions in new clothes. That's part of the reason why it worked so well. It's not the convention that's the problem - it's how you work it in. In general, things become conventions because they're used so much - and they're used so much because they work so well. F.ex. the younger generation gets proper room to work if the older is removed. In ANH ben Kenobis death was actually the most clumsy way of accomplishing this as he had to be convetionally killed. The rest of the Order had already conveniently been wiped out - and Luke and Leia lost their old folks more as demonstrations of the Empire's evil than traditional deaths. Ok, maybe not Luke, but you gte what I mean?

    To me, the main problem with killing Luke as it is, is actually that there seems to be so much focus on what to do with him. So whatever they come up with, is in severe risk of looking uninventive. As I see it, they should do with him what serves the plot best. That's the only way to work it in just a bit smoothly.
  3. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

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    May 8, 2005
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    Or how about I raise a Gandalf to your Dumbledore ? :p Gandalf was pretty much the mentor character to Frodo and Bilbo similar to how Obi-wan was to Luke. Luke could be the Gandalf of the films(just not as old) who's a central character and has fights that only he could stop, but he's still only one character in the middle of a big war. Like Gandalf Luke could be the mentor figure if that's where the films are going, who doesn't need to be kill off. One of the refreshing things of LotR is aside of Boromir the rest of the Fellowship survived.


    I hope the rebuilding of the Order is a sub-plot and one of the arcs for Luke to go through in the trilogy
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Jan 12, 2013
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  4. kataja Force Ghost

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    May 4, 2007
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    This is true. It could be awesome! I guess hoping for all Big three to stary alive thorugh all ST and ready for the follow up, would be too hopeful, though. I think at least Han will die, if for nothng else, then 'cos Harrison Ford probably won't come back after the ST. But Mark Hmaill and Carrie Fisher might as well stay for cameos.
  5. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

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    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    I still have doubts they'll pick up the original cast, for starters there hasn't been any confirmations. But back to the original topic, I think there will be still a need for the new hope but perhaps in a different manners. he'll be a master, teacher, husband, and father....all of these are new experiences for him. The only thing familiar will be fighting evil
  6. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    True, yeah, but pulling off conventions in new clothes is very hard to do well. If you look at Potter, the focus is clearly placed on the younger characters, which you'd expect as it's aimed at children.

    SW EU is quite unusual in that it's gone so far that there are multiple generations now in the frame, so how to handle that might be a problem unique to SW.
  7. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    That's true... In fact, I'm pretty darned worried about the ST - there seems to be so many structural problems with it, that I can't see how they're gong to pull it off. Face it, the PT was also pulled down by similar problems - and not before mid-AOTC did the story start flowing. And even then, it still lacked so much that made the OT charming; the focus, the heroism, the sense of chaos, the feeling of a used universe... And in terms of Luke's character, I'd much rather not have him in it at all but getting a good legacy, than having too many characters to drag along. See next post

    We're talking a bit aside of each other then, since I'm almost convinced it will be the original cast, and all I say mirrors this more or less. Of course if it is a reboot of the EU and new actors, everything looks different. Buy if it is the OC, as I still think was GL's original vision, what are the options? From where will the evil come? The Empire or its remnant? A new enemy (type Ssi-Ruuk or the Vong) - or will it come from within? The latter would make most point in terms of learning from the PT. Luke Skywalker not only defeated Evil, he also stopped history from repeating itself. But would it be a point to have Luke actually perfrming the victory (so to say). He should by then be this insanely powerful and wise Jedi? Correction: he should be this established insanely wise and powerful Jedi. Where is the challenge? Where is the tension? What are the prospects for SW from there? At least all three questons have to have a good answer for a plot line to spin off. And I think it'd pretty vital for them ll that Luke's not in the middle of things.

    Then how remove him? First, it could be so back in the timline that he's either already dead (IMO a bad option) or second, he could have retired to meditate since some 20 years or so, returning to action for the ST. Or he could sit in the middle of things from the start - but in that case, I find it a bit hard to see we can avoid a repetition of the stagnated Jedi Council from the PT. And I'd HATE to see a Luke Skywalker who sits and slows things down - that would be the worst character betrayal since... well, since NJO :p Auch, we didn't have to go far back. But this time there would be no comic series to set things right afterwards, this would be Canon. [face_plain]
  8. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Actually, could the opening crawl of Ep 7 start like this?

    Holster those blasters! COW, put the saber down! :)

    No one is going to buy it, quite seriously, I don't think anyone would buy it. Most people's expectation would be a fake-out, a bluff, misdirection - and they're likely right. We then get introduced to a new bunch, one of whom has an affinity for the Force, always needs one right?

    At some point, they're in a fix, say it's at night for added emphasis, as all looks lost a green lightsaber ignites....

    Of course, once it turns out Luke's death was a con, the expectation will be for him to cop it, so that also doesn't happen. Why doesn't he take care of the problems himself? Because he knows it's no longer his time, that belongs to the new bunch and they need to fight their own battles.
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  9. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    I actually like that! There could be several reasons why he's believed dead. Maybe he took off with Leia and Han on some crazy adventure and never returned ;)

    If he'd re-appear later than his own expected time-line, he'd also be more than excused for steeping aside.
  10. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    i had zero problem with Jacen going dark. My problem was the lack of redemption. Luke did what he could to redeem Luke, but i wanted Jaina or Allana to do it. I did not want him to die.
  11. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    Yes, but his legacy would be tainted because the galaxy was once again in turmoil.
    Last edited by Robimus, Jan 12, 2013
  12. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Only to some of us Robi, I'm not in that particular club!
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  13. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    I think we're opposites on this issue as even the original cast doesn't have a clue if they'll be involve or not. For me that sticks out like a sore thumb that they haven't given the original cast contracts yet....but then again we don't know if they even know what the story is about. We also don't know if the screenplay is even finish yet or what era this will be in. I only hope Luke will be a central hero in it, he's in character and powerful, and he'll get to live in all three films.

    I'm hoping for this but a soft reboot..or lets say a selective reboot.

    This one I'm unsure of, the Empire despite their lost on Endor still has numbers over the New Republic I imagine they could be still a threat....the problem is how do you top Emperor Palpatine....I imagine some type of sith equal to Palpatine would step up to plate but he would have to be drastically different otherwise or we end up with something too similar. What if a Sith empire comes in ???? that would be something of a change up since we only seen one or two sith..

    what do you mean ?

    of course :cool:

    it would be a plus to have him slay the actual dragon this time yes.

    one word: Abeloth or the idea of Abeloth.... Luke's literal battle with the DS as he battles a DS demon, offspring of the Force vs Force entity. This could work in more ways than one, as Luke would be put to the test with something that could challenge him and unlike Palpatine this being was never human(at least in idea).

    or have someone who's basically a photo negative of Luke, a parallel character who match him in ability or strength. Perhaps maybe if the Force could make it's own family line then maybe the DS can too. Or maybe one of Plagueis's creations aka "the power to create life" maybe could come true. Since Anakin brought balance, it's now the duty of the Skywalkers to keep balance when any new emerging threat pops in.
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Jan 12, 2013
  14. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Pretty certain the dark side already created its own avatar, Sidious and we all know how that worked out!
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  15. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

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    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    yeah but it seems the DS will always try and try again
  16. Skaddix Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2012
    star 4
    DS has billions of years what else is it going to do sure it might not get an avatar strong enough to beat luke but he is only going to last a hundred years or so when u got billions a hundred years is nothing.
  17. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    The dark side is practically:

    What we going to do tomorrow night Brain?
    Same thing we do every night Pinky, plot to take over the universe!
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  18. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    And here I thought baddies had all the fun...
  19. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
  20. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    MasterSkywalker86:
    I suppose you're right.... Still, it's disappointing to again here that so many don't want to read about Luke, Leia, and Han anymore. I hope we do get more GOOD stories with the Big three and I hope that will cause fans to "come around" as you said.


    I could go for that too. I think that Jaina and Luke could make a good team... I would like to see more of Ben too though.








    kataja:
    I don't consider it a detail ! Doing evil and not doing evil are too completely different things and the difference is pretty major, I think. You put Luke on the list of those who had fallen to the dark side when you were wondering why it was so bad for Denning to turn Jacen into a Sith because you said that lots of others had done it. (Which is one good reason why we SHOULDN'T have repeated that storyline, in my opinion.) But I'm digressing... The point is, you included Luke in the list and I feel it was wrong and unfair to put him there. Luke never fell to the dark side and shouldn't have been included in a list of people who HAD fallen to the dark side.


    While I agree with you that the younger generation will be the focus of the new films, I guess I'm still hoping that Luke will survive the ST. It's just so expected that the older generation is killed off to allow the younger generation to shine, so I'd like to see something completely different. That sort of story is just too overdone. Why can't we have older generation and younger generation sort of working together, with the younger generation getting to do most of the action sequences, but couldn't Luke be sort of the "brains" behind the operations and the mentor of the younger Jedi? Does the leader always have to die in order for the younger generation to be successful and heroic? I don't think so. I'm hoping the new SW story will surprise us and go in a different direction. I'd like Luke to be around to train at least a couple more generations of Jedi!









    MasterSkywalker86:
    I agree! I'd like to see Luke around as the mentor/teacher/leader for a long time.









    kataja:
    I'd certainly like to see this! I wonder if the Big Three will be in the ST at all. Did you read the thread in the Episode VII forum about Carrie Fisher apparently "saying goodbye" to Leia? If Carrie Fisher isn't in the ST, then it's possible that the other two actors won't be in it either. I would hate to see a ST without Luke. :( I hope they're not going to have all three of them already dead when the ST starts! :(



    I agree.... So why can't we have more than one generation working together? I guess I'd like to see Luke be the leader of the Jedi and the "mastermind" of the Jedi missions for the most part, but I can also see him getting actively involved in a situation where "only the best" will do. This doesn't mean that the other Jedi won't be doing important and heroic and amazing things too, but sometimes the top guy is needed in a desperate situation.







    Jedi Ben:
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!


    While I can see Luke coming to the rescue like that (and it would be pretty cool!), I wouldn't want anything or anyone to say that Luke was dead. Instead, he could be at the Temple, teaching, directing, leading, and sending the Jedi on missions. BUT, when the other Jedi are "in a fix", Luke can show up at the time and place of greatest need.... because he KNOWS he needs to be there.








    JediMatteus:
    I didn't want Jacen to die either. It was yet another waste of a good character, as with Mara and Anakin Solo. And all three of them were people who were very important to Luke.




    More tomorrow....
  21. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Remember this site in particular is only a small percentage of fans and I tend to notice the younger fans to be more vocal about topics that annoy them than say long time members(although we have our moments ;) ). The Big 3 in a lot of ways is the center of Star Wars despite the multi-spanning eras that it has evolved to. The Big 3 tales are always going to be the go to stories for a lot of fans(casual and hardcore alike), especially for my generation. I don't know if that'll change for the younger generation as they'll have both PT and OT trilogies available to them, but the OT has the greater staying power, as there'll be more to grasp as the viewer grows older. I'll see what my nephew says over the years....as his favorite character changes all the time.

    Still I'll go with the comment that while the Big 3 are the center of the universe, Luke is the heart of it. The fact issue 1 of Brian Wood's comic sold out only proves it....besides the merchandise, the blu-rays, and what 35 years of being relevant ;)

    agreed, though it would be a nice change of pace to see if Jaina becomes the leading protagonist for the new generation, as you mention Luke and Jaina make a great team. I think there would a lot of good moments between the two. Of course I want to see Luke and his son work together it would be refreshing and another reason for Luke to live throughout the three films to see Skywalker and son as a true family of jedi(the Skywalkers deserve a normal family dynamic). It would paint a stark difference from Luke's path from Anakin's.

    since the first 3 films show Anakin as a boy to a jedi to sith and the last 3 show the consequences of his choice, I imagine the ST would demonstrates the outcome from Luke choices in OT. IE, Anakin was seeking power impatiently and arguably for him self(he began seeing Padme as an object instead of his wife) but ultimately loses his power when put in an iron lung, Luke on the other hand doesn't seek power but he does gain it to help others.

    and he gets to show off every once in a while ;)
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Jan 14, 2013
  22. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    MasterSkywalker86:
    I would certainly like it if this is what we get. However, I'm really not expecting Luke to be one of the primary focus characters in this film. I would really like it if he did something truly remarkable though.

    If this takes place 25 to 30 years after RotJ, I really hope that the Empire is no longer a huge threat.


    That definitely *is* a problem!


    That certainly has been true during the EU. I could see that continued in the movies.



    *I* definitely agree with you about that.... But with me, you're "preaching to the choir," MS! ;)


    You *do* make a good point here though!


    I would *Really* like to see that, yes!

    That sounds good to me! Sounds like a plan! I hope Lucas and the screenwriter agree!
  23. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    I don't consider it a detail either, Child, not personally, but read what I say. One can approach a story from many different angles - and that puts emphasis on different things.

    I don't think so either - but I think there is a great danger they'll follow conventions - and I've decided not to let that spoil the ST for me in case they do - as long as other things I've listed earlier are done ok.

    I reda it and I read her open letter too. It was very vague and could as well be red as her making peace with the character as taking goodbuy. I.e. nothing is clearer.

    A very, very good point! And we're not representative either.

    Exactly!
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  24. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    one of the older generation characters has to help lead the new cast...I can only see Luke capable of doing this. Not to mention there is a way to have both the new and the old gen in the spotlight...see Avengers and LotR for examples.

    Let's comprise and say 15-20 years as a more likely time if the PT-OT gap is any indicator. As it would be a appropriate time to have kids and the adults are still relatively young.

    they need to demonstrate the consequences of Luke's decision, it helps that Kasdan is involved and Arndt teaches lectures of why the OT is still relevant to this day.
  25. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    kataja:
    Okay, I can understand that, but it still doesn't explain why you put Luke on the list of people who fell to the dark side. I just don't "get" it. :confused:



    Well, I hope they choose to do something surprising and different and DON'T kill off Luke just because it's the "normal" thing to kill off the leader/mentor and leave the apprentice/younger character on his/her own. I will be *especially* disappointed if they do this and Luke has no children of his own that we can follow into the future.


    Possibly. I guess I worry that if the PTB don't use one of the Big Three that they will choose not to use any of them, and that means we wouldn't get to see Luke in the ST. I would HATE that! :mad:







    MasterSkywalker86:
    I truly like your optimism, MS! And I hope that you end up being right about this. I know that *I* feel that only LUke is the best one to lead/direct the new characters. I just hope that those who are writing this feel the same way.