Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    kataja :
    Thanks! Too bad it's not available to read.


    I *do* see your point!


    Well, let's just hope that this new book gives us a resourceful Luke, where we can see his growth. Let's hope the author doesn't take his cue from Zahn's Rebellion era stories!


    I guess I should say that it seems to me that Denning doesn't LIKE Luke that much. You're right that he *does* write him fairly frequently, but I think that Denning's Luke characterizations are to Luke's *detriment* rather than to his credit. In my opinion, the impact on Luke is negative rather than positive. Thus, it seems to me that Denning doesn't care that much for the character.

    This is true... However, as I understand it, the Luke journey part of it was actually Luceno's idea. It seems that he was going to add that to one of his books (the Millennium Falcon book, I think. It would have been Luke's adventure while Han and Leia were on the Falcon), but Luceno and the editors decided that it would make that book far too long, so it wasn't included in that book. The idea of journeying to other Force groups and learning from them was instead "saved" for Denning's book. :(:mad: It then became an exile so Luke could find out what happened to Jacen. I really wish we could have gotten Luceno's planned version instead...



    I do too, but I just think that lately we're getting too much of Rebel Luke. Of course, the big problem with Rebel Luke is that he can't use the Force, so he can't be a Jedi. I happen to like the combination of Jedi and Farmboy better than just Rebel. As I've said, I'd really like to see adventures of Luke and his Jedi on missions. We really haven't gotten much of that at all. We just keep getting Luke and his Jedi fighting major wars. I'd like to see the Jedi helping ordinary people with ordinary problems. I'd like to see the Jedi doing things that makes the people of the galaxy respect them and welcome them, instead of the opposite, which we keep getting.









    MasterSkywalker86:
    Yes, I suppose the ST is part of the reason why we're not getting anything in the NR era. I *do* wish that Disney and LFL would let us know where in the timeline the ST will take place, and whether or not the EU will be over-written or not.


    Kataja said that he said, "Han driven" rather than "Han focused", but it might mean the same thing. We'll find out this summer, I guess.

    I definitely agree that the direction is not at all what I wanted or envisioned for Luke... or for Mara, Leia, Han, Jacen, or Jaina actually...



    Possibly... But I also think it's just possible that Del Rey still has no idea about where things are going in the ST, so they don't want to start more stories in that era until they find out what's going on.


    EXACTLY! Instead, except for Crucible, everything involving Luke is in the Rebellion era lately, from Zahn's books to this new Rebel book, to the new SW comics.


    Again, more than anything, I don't want to find that Luke is permanently disabled in the Force and will no longer be able to do fantastic FOrce feats when we meet him in Crucible. I don't want Luke to always be weary and tired and pitiful!!!!! :(

    I agree. The problem isn't that Denning didn't include Luke enough. It's the *WAY* he included Luke that I don't like. It's the characterizations and roles that he gave Luke that I have a problem with.
    I'm still also annoyed that Denning allowed Traviss to get away with killing Mara. He could have said "NO!" (and Allston too!) but he didn't. So now Luke is alone. Meanwhile, he often writes many Han/Leia together scenes.
    MasterSkywalker86 likes this.
  2. LijoT Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2005
    star 4
    Haha CoW, seeing that you and SoS are still here makes me smile broadly :) The lightbringer's legacy lives on!
  3. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    If Luceno created a solo book of Luke and Ben exploring other Force groups it would have been epic. He's one of the few writers that has a grand understanding of the Force and he also does a pretty good characterization of Luke.

    well I imagine once the director is announce things will seem more concrete.

    .

    I think out of all of those characters Jaina might have fare the best, she's a Master now and a married woman. Although she was a buglover, in a meaningless love triangle, and had to kill her brother :rolleyes:

    I really doubt that will happen, if anything Del-Rey never regresses to the same problems. They always create new ones :p

    I blame equally the Editors as well as the writers on that decision.
  4. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    So, after a long stretch of reading nothing involving Luke, I'm suddenly going to have a lot to talk about. I'm now going ot start my read through of all the Bantam material (the Thrawn trilogy to the Hand of Thrawn duology), and then will finally (finally!) move on to the NJO and beyond.

    I'm starting with a reread of the Thrawn trilogy. I've read it twice before, however, and to shake things up a bit, I decided to listen to it on audiobook. I've never really tried audiobooks before; in fact, I listened to my first audiobook just a month ago (it was The Hobbit, since I wanted to reread it for the movie).

    Have to say, I really like Marc Thompson's Luke. All of his characters are great (though Winter sounds a bit strange to me). The first Luke section of the book, his parting with Obi-Wan Kenobi, strikes me as one of the best scenes in any Star Wars novel. I also really enjoy his conversation with Threepio. The first time I read it, I found Luke's thoughts that a Jedi should not concern themselves with merely planets and governments, but the people that make them up, to make perfect sense and to be incredibly in line with his character. Later, we learn that while Jedi certainly try this, they just as often are more preoccupied with keeping to themselves than helping people. Nonetheless, Luke's got the right idea here.
  5. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Never. He said: "When I was thinking about this book, one of the things I kind of felt was that there had been “Leia-driven” books and we’ve had “Luke-driven” books, but it’s been a long time since we had one that was “Han-driven,” and one of the things I really tried to do with this one is have Han’s spirit drive it."
    in http://fangirlblog.com/interviews/troy-denning-part-two/

    I suggest we give them some leach - the ST muddles every perspective right now.

    ...and the latter was what many fans had been screaming for, for a long time. If you read the first part of that interview, and he' adresses exactly that - the writers try to please - but they can't please everyone all the time - and it takes time from desicion to actual product.

    Ah. I didn't know that. Thanks.
  6. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Indeed!!!

    That's more fair. I still disagree, though. I think Denning has given us a more mature Luke who is both amazingly strong in the Force - and has integrity to use it (contrasting to the eternally hesitant Bantam Luke). Also, part for Mara's death, I think the post NJO Luke seems so much more balanced and positive than the mopey we too often saw pro-VOTF.

    Well, then the credit for the idea goes to Luceno. But I agree with the editors that the idea good to use in a longer story!

    Fair enough.

    I'd like to see that too. But I'm still hopeful we'll get it at some point.

    You jump to conclusions. If you read what the interview says, it becomes evident it's the interviewer who 'puts the words in Dennings mouth' here:


    And yet you like the Bantams? :confused::p

    He wrote a couple of great L&M scenes too. The one in SBS we talked about the other day (Mara making breakfast) and the one in TJK where Mara jokes Luke's only trying to lure her into their cabin.

    Yes to the first, hmm to the latter...

    [face_laugh]

    That sounds great I! Keep us updated as you read - I'd like to hang on there too! I'd chose the audiobook route too, if I just could get them from the library - but despite our ultramodern times, they seem unable to arrange it :oops: And I think buying them from ITunes when I have all the books in paperback, is a little too crazy.

    [QUOTEChildofWinds]Jedi's Honor - Too bad it's not available to read.[/QUOTE]
    It's hard to read as you choose whatever will happen after each scene. But listen to this start:
    I really think it's a good characterization of rebel era Luke!
    Last edited by kataja, Jan 22, 2013
  7. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    yeah those mind witches are brutal
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  8. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    I would also recommend SOTE if you get the time. I think Steve Perry does a good characterization of Luke between ESB and RotJ, although people criticize that his writing is very simple.


    Considering Han hasn't had much of story arc for the last 18 books I think it's about time.

    come again ? :confused:

    and it work out being one of the book's benefits.
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Jan 22, 2013
  9. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    I get mine from Audible.com. You actually get one free audiobook, if you want to give it a shot. I'm enjoying it immensely.

    Listening a bit more, and I still find that it's like reading an entirely different novel. It's just a different experience overall. I continue to love Thompson's voice work. The only character I'm not liking is C'Baoth, and that's because I still hear him with Christopher Lee's voice. No mere mortal can imitate Christopher Lee. Still, I'm not a big fan of Thompson making C'Baoth sound "old" and somewhat frail. I still hear it as a deep, commanding voice. He's got Luke, Han, Thrawn and Ackbar down though.

    @MasterSkywalker86: Yep, I've read SOTE twice. Great Luke sections in that. In fact, at this point I've read every major novel up to TTT, with the exception of Red Harvest, Medstar, Jedi Trial, TCW tie-in books, Coruscant Nights, Ruins of Dantooine, Rebel Force, and Shadow Games. I'm sure there are a few others in there I'm missing, but I've hit everything with Luke up to the TTT. As far as he's concerned, it's a straight line through Bantam and the NJO.
  10. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    I went in and heard him make some Yu Go Oh voicing on You Tube and was really impressed. One of the voices he made there, was really close to Luke's too, so ican well imagine that. Darn! Now I want to hear those books even more badly!

    They are. I wouldn't mind seeing more of them in a Luke book. Now that Luke knows what they are too :)


    Eihhh, what do they expect? Dostojevski? I LOVE SOTE - because Luke is so great in it!!!

    What I mean is, that announcing anything but Rebel era EU novels right now, before we know what wil happen with the EU, is more or less suicidal. I know that by the time the novels actually would reach the bookshells, the fate of the EU will probably have been cleared - but right now, not many would buy books from a later timeline. People seem to find a hard time even looking forward to what we know will come out. I think its smart to wait until we know what havoc the ST will cause.

    I think so too.

    I can imagine... I do buy stuff on the net, of course, but I'm a bit prejudice when it comes to running costs - it would proably cost extra for me as I pay in danish currency... Gotta make more reserach...

    So true!
  11. DARTH_MU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2005
    star 4
    I for one would like to see future pro fiction rather than retreads of the same era.
    What do we care what happened to Luke between ESB and RotJ?
    To quote from spiderman "I already seen the gliders! Frankly I never supported your work, we have my predecessor to th--" Okay, I'm getting carried away here.

    I want to see his further adventures.

    They seriously messed up with the date of Legacy comics, I'll grant you that.
    But now I want to see what happens next to Cade Skywalker more than what Luke Skywalker did a century ago.
  12. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Lijo :
    Lijo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good to hear from you! Stop by and chat about Luke! What do you think about the SQ? Do you think the EU will be completely over-written?







    MasterSkywalker86:
    I agree! I really would have liked to see Luceno write that Luke/Ben story!

    LOL! I definitely agree that they are always creating new problems! But I fear that we really ARE going to hear about Luke's disability because it was Denning who wrote that and Denning is writing the next book, unfortunately. Plus, Denning made comments about Luke's injury in an interview, and he was the one who said that it needed to be part of Lukes story arc. So, I can't see him contradicting himself, as much as I would like to see him do that.


    None of them are blameless, true. The Editors should have reined in Denning.








    instantdeath:
    I'm looking forward to your comments, ID!!!!

    I haven't either. I really like to read for myself. But maybe that's what I should do with CoO, so I can get it finished during my drivetime!

    That's good to know!

    I agree! I'm looking forward to more of your comments, ID!



    I'll have more comments later!
  13. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    I think what sells the audiobooks for me, even more than the stellar voice work, is the great use of sound effects and music. The music made the parting scene between Luke and Ben all the more powerful. Really ramps up the action scenes as well. I've listened a bit to the Darth Plagueis audiobook as well, and it brings lightsaber fights to life.

    Those were my thoughts as well, that I prefer to read, and I probably would miss a lot of things if I were listening. So far, that second concern is unfounded; listening is a different experience, but very fun (I've actually read that reading leads to deeper comprehension, but actually interferes with visualization. I can definitely believe that). I still think I prefer reading for the most part, because I can read so much faster than a narrator can speak, but I think if I ever reread books, I'll just listen to them instead, to get stories I like in a different way.
  14. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    kataja:
    We'll definitely have to agree to disagree about Denning! I see Denning as writing a far colder and more darkish Luke most of the time. Even in TG, where Luke appeared on two pages, Denning managed to make Luke seem darkish. (Denning had Leia think she saw a dark Luke.)



    Well, I think it could have fit very well in a single book (or duology) if the book or books had been completely focused on the journey. But I agree it was too much to put into the Millennium Falcon book. I *do* wish Luceno had written the story though!!!!! I'm still so disappointed that so little came out of that Luke journey. He didn't learn all that much in his travels to other Force sects, and what little he did learn, Luke never used even once in that LONG nine book series. The journey idea was kind of wasted, in my opinion. It could have been so much more!



    I think we should have had it by now instead of the almost constant galactic warfare that Del Rey has given to us. I really can't say that I would be at all disappointed if the EU post VotF were wiped out. I don't feel that we got much that was very positive or worth saving after that.



    I didn't like ALL of the Bantam books, but I liked many of them. One great thing about the Bantam years was that the stories were never longer than three books long. So if you didn't like a story, you didn't need to wait a LONG time to get another one that you might like better. I also liked that the Bantam stories all had DEFINITE endings, and for the most part, they were satisfying endings. I could close the book with a smile on my face most of the time.... That RARELY happened with the Del Rey books.

    And I don't feel that Luke was "weary, tired, and pitiful" most of the time. Luke was positive and optimistic through most of the Bantam books, even when things were going very badly. Was Luke worried about starting the Jedi Order? Yes, but that makes perfect sense to me. He himself had only a few weeks of formal training; he had no training manual; he had few Jedi candidates; he had no mentors or colleagues to help him. PLUS, he knew that his own father had fallen to the dark side. If Luke wouldn't have been worried about starting the Jedi Order, *I* would have been worried about him!



    But those were so short and so few !!! In contrast, Denning pretty much wrote an entire book (TG) filled with Han/Leia scenes.

    Did you ever finish TUF????? I thought Luceno had a good Luke characterization pretty much through the entire book.



    That's odd!


    I do like that!


    More another time....
  15. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Hey guys, I don't normally post too many things about RL but I wanted to mention I just graduated and received my Bachelor's. So I have now attained another title.:p

    And now the circle is complete [face_devil] I look forward to your journey from Bantam and to Del-Rey it has been a year since I reread my own collection and it's alway fun to see the books from another's perspective. I been actually reading A Song of Ice and Fire during my EU "sabbatical". Please list notable Luke feats when you come upon them[face_praying]

    Which Yugioh character voice Luke ?[face_hypnotized]

    They expect it all...lol. Agreed SOTE is right up there with TTT and HoT for me. The best of Bantam and some of the best portrayals of Luke during the EU.

    I dunno, maybe right now the halt in NR eras make sense but once the film starts coming full swing with it's release I imagine the books would make some bank with novels that focused on the timeline of the Episode 7. I know I would be buying Luke NR books when the time comes[face_batting] Speaking of which, and take this with a grain of salt it has been reported that JJ Abrams will be the director of Episode 7....[face_praying]. Combine that with Michael Ardnt and Lawrence Kasdan writing and a good producer we have a potentially good sequel in the making.Ironically I would have been happy with Brad Bird directing....

    there is still time.

    remember the editors also have a final say too.... also for a narrative point it doesn't make sense that Luke looses his power when an even more powerful being is still out there.
  16. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Even as a lego Luke still gets fangirls :p

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  17. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Fair enough. My own preferances are simple: Luke, Luke - and more Luke. Kriff what era it is. O:)

    I, you have made me want this very badly! I just have no clue how to get it, unless I buy the same stories all over again! [face_worried]

    Well, at least we agree on that! :)


    Well, we agree on that too. It was indeed a dark vision - but it was a vision about what could have come true. A future that turned out to never happen.

    I agree - again. It could have been much more But no way you get me say the journey was waisted. Everything Luke learned is there, to use in other stories. To me, that's what makes the EU so cool. Stories interact, and while one doesn't manage to use all its potential, it remains there for someone else to use!

    Well, this is where our opinions divide. ;) Sometimes I wonder if we've read the same books :p


    My main complaint about JAT isnt that he was worried or unexperienced. It's the inept way he was written worried and unexperienced. And what followed from there. But I think Luke was also tired and pained in CotJ, DS, CS, PoT, I, Jedi and TBFCT. He was happier in TNR but there too he had to be deadly hurt as the story developed. That is 11 out of 23. Ok I was wrong - it's not most if the Bantams - it's only near-half of them.

    Then, again Luke's pretty worried in TTT, THT, TAB and SOTE too - in TAB he's badly hurt too. That would make 18/23 - but these books are so well written taht I don't mind them ata ll - actually I do like them.

    On the other hand, in TCCT and COPL, the only ones where he's neither pained or worried, I just think Luke's just dull or strangely written - so it means that I don't much care about 15 out of 23 Bantams.

    Then again, I do like 8 Bantam books - a lot! Lets regard the glass as half full!


    Still stuck in ch 3 - it's on my night table. But I have read all the Luke scenes in it. I don't find his lines convincing. But I'll get back to it when I've managed through the entire book, of course.

    *kataja dances a little dance*

    Congratulations! I'm so happy on your behalf!!! [:D]


    Now, this I DO agree with!



    Exactly. And we should remember that Denning has never said that Force blow made Luke less powerful! What he said was that It would play some role - or something like that. We should be careful with interpretations!
    MasterSkywalker86 likes this.
  18. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    thank you, I just recently got a job as well so I'm extremely happy right now.:D

    right, we don't know exactly how this affects Luke and his Force abilities yet.


    ok so the news is JJ Abrams(the director of Star Trek, Star Trek Into Darkness) will be directing Episode 7 despite saying no before...I'm still waiting for confirmation though that this is official. It would seem odd for the same director to handle two big franchises, especially if there will be a sequel to Trek Into Darkness. Still on the off chance he does do it....I think it's a good sign
    kataja likes this.
  19. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    i had never heard of a mind witch until i read Luke's bio. Like to see more of these in Star Wars literature
  20. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    I LOOOOVED that!!! :D Man, am I waiting for March!!!

    MORE congrats!!! [:D]

    Mmm... I'd be careful believing anything that isn't confirmed. I do think we'll get som news soon, however...

    I think it wouldn't take much to tip over - but one single story, maybe a duology in which they feature mind witches and maybe even Force vampires, could be cool. And Luke would now know what a mind witch is. It could be done as a bit of a pastiche, considering how much of that stuff taht's out right now.

    Ok, I went back and found what Denning said about that Force wound of Luke's:
    He speaks of a 'weakness' - not of a weaker Luke. I see that as a fundamental difference.
    Last edited by kataja, Jan 25, 2013
  21. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    Although I think I would find sound effects on audiobooks distracting and cheesy for most books, they're incredibly fun in Star Wars, not to mention appropriate (the sound effects and music are a huge part of the original movies). The scene in Heir to the Empire where Luke swings down to the market place was the perfect time to play the sand barge assault. It's what I had been hearing when I read that scene anyway. Gave it this really fun, old school heroic feel.

    Also, I really like the "Force bond" that's established here between Luke and Leia, and I love Han's reaction to it (I'm sure he was freaked out by it at a time). Is this something that keeps up, or is this yet another thing dropped in later stories?
    Last edited by instantdeath, Jan 25, 2013
  22. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    kataja:
    I suppose that's true... It does make sense. Still, it's kind of annoying to hear that what they're planning for a new novel for us is something about Darth Maul.... Sorry, but that's about the last character I want to read about... Well, Maul and Boba Fett!








    DARTH_MU:
    I actually pretty much agree with you about that. Aside from the fact that I would like to read about Luke and his Jedi on normal missions, and that I would like to read about Luke and Mara again, I too prefer to go forward rather than backwards. Knowing what will happen in the future affects my enjoyment of a story. I think that was part of my problem with the prequel films. (Well, that and many other things!) I already basically knew what was going to happen, so I really wasn't all that interested really.



    I feel that Legacy should have been pushed much farther forward in the timeline. Even after it ended I didn't see any reason why it needed to be set so close to Luke's era. However, I don't agree about preferring to see what happens to Cade over a Luke story. I am NOT a fan of Cade Skywalker! ...Not at all!!!









    MasterSkywalker86:
    CONGRATULATIONS, MS!!!!!! And Congrats on the new job too! Wow! Your life is changing quickly! Much good luck to you in your new career!



    But not for THAT Luke/Ben journey story. Unfortunately, that has already been finished by Denning. :(


    This is true, but so far, the editors seem to "rubber stamp" everything Denning proposes. They don't seem to ever say, "NO!" to the guy about anything!

    Well, *I* certainly agree with you!!!! But I don't know if Denning even thought about that when he gave Luke the injury.


    Very cute, MS!!!



    kataja:
    :) Spoken like a true Luke fan!



    Right, but Denning never even acknowledged that it never happened.


    What do you think the odds are that any of the very few things that Luke learned in that journey will EVER be used in another EU story? :p

    We do seem to have very different opinions, don't we? You love the Del Rey books, while I hate most of them, and I like most of the Bantam books which *you* hate! ;)



    But the fact that he said that the injury caused Luke to lose some of his Force essence sounds pretty ominous and scary to me. If Luke loses some of his Force potential, that means he will lose some of his Force power.


    More another time....
  23. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    And now it's official! And I agree, I see it as good news too! Very good, actually. I saw ST a couple of weeks ago and I was very impressed with the manus, casting and directing!


    I could imagine in fits well (despite, like you, having a genaral idea sound effects are distracting. But Zahn has always said he writes with Williams' music in the background, - and I think his text in TTT really bears clear mark of it - so I think its fitting here)

    Sadly, their Force bond is mostly ignored! I think he overdid a but how much you generally can speak inside someones head (like later Leia speaks in Mara's head to and vice versa) - that was a thing that gave the Jedi almost too much of an advantage - but I think it was cool if Luke and Leia would still have remained this close, or at least nearly.

    We agree on that!!!

    [face_blush]

    Hmm, should he do that in the first place? After all, the vision was referring to something that had happened for most of the readers - but had not happened In Universe. So he neither could or should need to adress it in TG. And later, it wouldn't really have fit in anywhere, would it? H'e been writing in time eras that take place much later, with completely new challenges. To go back and comment on what happnes in TG or DE would actually increase the idea that Luke was theatened by falling to dark.

    Never tell me the odds.;)


    That we do! But I still love you, Child! [:D]
  24. Skaddix Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2012
    star 4
    I am fine with JJ. Although that might have to do with me not liking his apparent top competition at all.

    Still I am wondering how they scale the force feats in the U. I honestly don't expect any god mode watch me wipeout a whole fleet stuff.
  25. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    And now it's official, if anything this is very promising news. As for god mode, there is some speculation that the enemy in STID has super powers.....so I wouldn't rule out anything just yet. For a narrative/visual perspective we got pretty much an ideal team of Abrams, Ardnt, and Kasdan, I'm pretty happy about this. I'll respond more later...texting on the phone is hard
    kataja likes this.