Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Apparently neither has Luke :p while I wouldn't necessarily mind him having a beard in the ST I feel it would be more of nod to Obi-wan more than anything which seems to me a bit pointless but a nice way for Luke to acknowledge one of his teachers. I prefer him to have the look of my avatar plus the black jedi master robes.

    it really has, most of their dynamic was wasted on series books. There are simply too few solo books with the two of them as a couple.

    My money is on temporary, I would be equally as annoyed if it was permanent as well considering what the character has gone through, probably more so. Personally I'm hoping for a soft reboot starting with the NJO era and part of Bantam...as it's hard to really care about what's going on with Legacy when you don't like the status quo.

    NJO and Legacy eras as a whole have done little to keep me invested. Depending on the way the books go I might just focus on just the films,comics, and the animated projects. They really have dug themselves a hole and it'll take some considerable talent to bring them out of it. I'm just happy that we now have a choice of what to focus on.

    another thing it's seems the last book we all unanimously praised on this thread was Mindor...and before that was TUF. I don't like that gap between really good books featuring Luke.

    I also hope for more Luke in the films ;)
  2. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Only one book in fact- Survivor's Quest.
  3. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    and that really needs to me fixed....if not in the books maybe in the new films
  4. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Can't really buy into the notion of Anakin as a hero, even a tragic one - he damned himself. Not as if he didn't get a few opportunities not to either. The Clone Wars run of comics 2002-2005 did what they could to show his better aspects - yes, he did have them! - but AOTC really did a number on the character.

    And frankly, a lot of the crap thrown at Lucas is, for me, primarily due to his thinking it a good idea to try and make the audience sympathetic to the individual who would become Darth Vader, that he then compounds this base error by slinging a prophecy in to make Anakin's one good act on Death Star 2 - one he took his sweet time over too - only amplifies the damage. Instead of SW being about the ability of a person to change the world by not being a bastard, it becomes a story that says: Yes, you can be a psychotic, murdering bastard for 20 years but if you do one good deed in your life and happen to have a prophecy about you and just so happen to fulfill said prophecy with your one good act, you'll get let off! If Lucas can't see a problem with that then clearly he lost the plot some time ago.

    I like the sound of Abrams' comments they are most encouraging and, for all the influence a screenplay has on a film, it is the director and cinematography that play every bit as major role, if not more so!
  5. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    mark my words. these new films will be even worse than the last ones. If they make luke into some feeble old jedi with no power, i am done with star wars movies 4 ever
  6. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    I'm far from the biggest Abrams fan, but I assure you he'll do a much better job than Lucas did on the prequels. Besides... there is plenty of evidence that Abrams likes Luke, such as the quotes I posted.
  7. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    While anything is possible, Abrams strikes me as having too much respect for the OT characters to treat them as feeble and powerless. The same goes for the writer Ardnt who does seminars on why the OT is such a memorable trilogy.

    The fact that Abrams didn't want the job in the first place makes me confident he'll take his time and effort to get the job done properly
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Jan 30, 2013
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  8. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    EmeraldJediFire:
    Welcome to the SOS thread, EJF! I agree. Mara was great for Luke.

    Oh, don't get me started on that one! ;) I have gone on lengthy rants about how Luke's character was thrown under the bus in order to allow the plot that the authors wanted to go forward, even though it was totally out-of-character for Luke and diminished and degraded him. I still say that the vengeance killing was the very worst thing that Luke has ever done, and it shouldn't have happened, especially at this time in Luke's life. He was also a terrible example for the young Jedi, and he was supposed to be the Jedi Grandmaster!

    I think Traviss probably took great pleasure in portraying Mara as an angry assassin and Grandmaster Luke Skywalker as a vengeance killer. I think she wanted her anti-Jedi sentiment to be shown in full force, and what better way to do it than have the leader of the Jedi and his wife act no better than villains? Making it even worse, she portrayed the Mandalorians as the "salt of the Earth" and wonderful family people. It was TRULY annoying and very unfair to Luke and Mara's characters.








    MasterSkywalker86 :
    I would like something similar to that, yes.

    As Iron Lord said, SQ was really the only one.


    I hope you're right. I don't want to see Luke with a permanent Force injury which would likely diminish his Force powers. I guess I'm concerned not only because Denning is writing the next book, but also because Shelly Shapiro and some of the authors have said that no one knows what to do with Luke because "he's so powerful". (I disagree that he has been portrayed as "too powerful". But, I can see Del Rey taking away some of Luke's power so the authors (and some fans) can't complain anymore that Luke is too powerful. By making Luke's injury permanent, they can keep Luke from ever being all that powerful. :(

    As I've said, I think SQ would be a good place to restart the post-RotJ timeline. Things got really nuts in the NJO.


    I agree. And with some very important characters dead, I don't see how they can ever really fix things post Apocalypse.


    Oh! ME TOO! No question about that! But I'm also hoping that we'll get engaging, endearing, good and heroic children of Luke and Leia and Han to follow and relate to in the future.








    Jedi Ben:
    That's the way I feel too. I don't consider Anakin to be a hero at all.


    I think you've hit the nail right on the head, JB. I don't like the "message" that this kind of thinking gives. Was I glad that Anakin saved Luke? Of course!!!!! But that still doesn't erase all of the atrocities that Anakin committed for decades as Darth Vader. He was NO hero. Yes, he saved his son's life and that was great, but it was LUKE who restored and rebuilt what his father had spent years helping to destroy.


    Again, I agree. However, I must say that I'm disappointed that Episode VII will likely be delayed due to Abrams' busy schedule. If they would delay it simply to make it a far better film, fine, but it seems that it may be delayed just to accommodate Abrams' schedule. That's the one thing that concerns me. Maybe they should have hired a director who doesn't have so much on his plate already?








    JediMatteus:
    Why do you think they will do that, JM??? When I was discussing Luke losing power, I meant in the novels because of Luke's injury in Apocalypse. I don't really expect them to make Luke a weakling in the films.... At least, I certainly hope not!








    Instantdeath:
    Yes, and I would hpe that he would treat Luke respecfully in the films if he truly likes the character.
  9. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    interesting biblical quote there, but the fact the editors allow that and the mess that happen in Sacrifice means there isn't much direction on their part. I can understand in making the Mandolorians somewhat relatable and sympathetic to the reader but there is a difference in canon and fan fiction. There is also the issue in Sacrifice of Mara not acting like Mara, we spent a total of 8 books where Mara spent a good portion of time analyzing her plans and strategies before making a move and somehow in Sacrifice we have a Mara who doesn't understand the concept of backup and acts purely on instinct. Did I miss something here ?!?!?

    but.......I assume there are some changes you want :p

    and that is a crime [face_not_talking]

    that is such a strawman argument :rolleyes: the current batch of FotJ books had a fully powered Luke do hardly much of anything. They handicap him enough...time to unleash him. If anything the Del-Rey team needs to figure out how to use a powerful Luke in a story. They have examples of of specifically Del-Rey titles TUF, DNT, and even Mindor to some degree....why not follow that trend ?!??!

    Invasion had a good approach too.

    I agree, but I would hope they take down some of Bantam's bizarre books as well.

    heck the issues started getting bigger with LotF....at least with NJO there was a ending where most of the Skywalker/Solo family are still alive.

    I agree

    well we waited 30 years since Jedi for any announcement of a sequel trilogy Child, I think we can bear another year or 2 ;) As you mention I prefer that Abrams takes his time with this one as we already dealt with the weaker PT which focus more on special effects than character, and even though I like those films it's very hard to start off the saga with TPM. I hear that Abrams won't necessarily be directing the third Star Trek but he'll produce, and perhaps they can give the Mission Impossible reins to Brad Bird who did probably the best one out of the batch.

    Also it seems like he wants to the time delay to make a better film by these comments:
    "You know, obviously, it's so early. I can just say what I want to do: I want to do the fans proud. I want to make sure the story is something that touches people. And we're just getting started. I'm very excited."-J.J. Abrams
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Jan 31, 2013
  10. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Me too!

    I'd prefer him without, but it's not a must.

    Agreed! Both with you and him! I think it's ok to sympathisize with Anakin - but not to be on his side! And that's really a problem for me in the PT era.

    Now, on the other hand, this I agree with, 100%!!!
    Last edited by kataja, Feb 1, 2013
  11. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Abrams has also said:
    I think he nails it!
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  12. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    now my question is......will he be the sole director of the new trilogy ? [face_thinking] He's only confirmed for Episode 7. Depending on how well Episode 7 does I no doubt believe Disney will provide him a offer if Episode 7 is successful but we don't have any guarantee he'll do another one.

    Burdened/ worried/injured seem like a running theme in a majority of the Bantam books....I would say they made him too spiritual with little of his personality in CoPL. Luke's optimism is a major part of his character...take that away and you end up with a colder character, FotJ thankfully retain most of his behavior there.

    Luke is like how Christopher Reeve portray Superman, despite all the hardships Luke has gone through he's still full of postivity and a type of subtle joy in doing the right thing.




    HERESY!!!! [face_not_talking][face_not_talking]:p

    In seriousness though, couldn't have Luke and Ben bonded regardless of Mara's fate ? I know in FotJ their bond somewhat benefited from their mutual loss but I think they could have bond despite their earlier friction in LotF. The irony though is we have yet to get a Skywalker family novel. :rolleyes:

    you better :p
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Feb 1, 2013
  13. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    so is Dew busy or something?
  14. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    MasterSkywalker86:
    It certainly did seem that way at times. And you're right about Mara's uncharacteristic behavior too.

    Well, I would prefer Luke without a beard, but I don't think he always needs to be in all black... I would like to see them change the colors a bit. I don't think we need to always see the Jedi in Brown and tan either. What's wrong with a dark blue or green now and then? Maybe a green or blue tunic and black pants and black cape? And they can lose the cape most of the time too. It seems rather impractical for a Jedi to have a cape anyway. It gets in the way of quick movements!


    You're "preaching to the choir" here, MS. I completely agree with you. I have never understood or agreed with their claim that Luke was too powerful in Bantam. And, yes, I think it's time to "unleash" Luke!

    Yes like Crystal Star!








    kataja:
    I agree, but I didn't even sympathize with him all that much because he pretty much brought everything on himself. Yes, I felt terrible that his mother had died, but his actions afterwards were horribly wrong, and don't get me started on him killing Jedi children!!!! And all because he saw a vision and was too selfish to accept losing Padme and too arrogant to think that maybe his vision wasn't necessarily correct. He ended up causing Padme's death himself.


    Though I disagree that Luke is always brooding in Bantam books, I think there's a big difference between someone who is burdened by responsibility/unlucky in love, and someone who is a tragic hero. When we think of tragic heroes in TV and movies and books today, we often mean a character with a fatal flaw who is doomed to fail or destined for a downfall. I don't think that really fits Luke.

    But even if you just think of Luke as a tragic hero because he has a lot of responsibility on his shoulders and because he suffers losses, I think he would then be even more of a "tragic hero" post-VotF, because he suffered far more losses then. He lost Mara, Anakin, Chewie, and Jacen all in the Del Rey books, not to mention half of his Jedi Order during the NJO. He saw the deaths of Callista and Akanah. Luke also had the terrible burden of how to go about dealing with the YV; Jedi Joiners; thousands of Sith; and Abeloth.... all in the Del Rey books. I think those responsibilities and burdens were every bit as difficult as restarting the Jedi Order. Maybe the reason that you don't think of Luke as brooding as much in Del Rey (Though he certainly did during LotF, as Ben was even worried that Luke was contemplating suicide after Mara's death..), is because we don't "get inside Luke's head" as often during most of the Del Rey books as we did during many of the Bantam books. We don't really know what Luke is thinking or feeling all that often during Del Rey.



    I think we could have gotten father/son comraderie without Mara dying. I hated that LotF gave us a Luke/Ben rift instead. That seemed very contrived and unnatural. I always thought that Luke would have a wonderful relationship with any children he would have because he himself didn't get to know his father or have a relationship with him as a child. Luke was always interested in family, and he is compassionate and caring.

    I think Luke was mature before he lost Mara. In fact, I think he was mature in many of the Bantam books too. Some of what you see as "detached", I see as reserved and mature.








    MasterSkywalker86:
    Yes, I think Luke and Ben could have bonded without Mara dying.








    JediMatteus:
    I don't really know about that, but I do know that he has been very unhappy about the recent EU stories. But he was also not pleased about the idea that all of the EU might be overwritten by the ST. I think.
  15. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Nuance? Are you adding to your crime of heresy bu invoking nuance in an internet discussion? :)
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  16. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    I come from Finland, you know. We need to get conventions spelled out to get them :p



    Hard to say. It could sound likely - then again, tehy could go for the Harry Potter-style too, and use different directors. I think it depends very much ont he story they're telling too - will cntinuity be relevant to the deifferent episode, - or would it be amsrt to use the new angles different directors can offer.

    I think you're right, actually...[face_thinking] It's not the as much burdens - but his lack of spirit. It really bothers me as I see Luke's 'go' as some of his absolute main characteristica. In that light, I have it much easier to accept f.ex. his actions after Mara's death, as I see Luke as a guy who acts - and thus can make mistakes - rather than one who sits back irresolute.

    LOL I seem to get that a lot at the moment [face_laugh]

    I think the simple answer is: of course they could. But I think the fact that we got one at all, was due to Mara's death and the editors acknowledging taht they'd pushed the tragedy too much. And yes, we ironically still lack that. In truth, this is what seriously bothers me: not that a character (here: Mara) was killed - but that she hadn't been used properly before she was: giving the main protagonist of SW a moments peace. That - and of course the much stupid stuff around her death (the muddy relevance to the plot, the OOC actions etc.)

    I think in the novels he's more often described in tans than blacks. The blacks is very muhc a fanfic / comic book stereotype.


    I still lack to read BFC so I don't know what happnes there, if he comes and saves the day, but at least in COPL he gets pretty mcuh a superman end-scene. I don't mind it, but as i recall it, it was a bit clumsyly told.

    True.

    I think MS nailed it above - the problem isn't what happens to Luke - but how he is portrayed. And I don't agree we get more into Luke's head in Bantam - or that we get happier for that sake. Then again, we can disagree all we like - no one of us is going to move. I think. Unless we take it book by book, textplace by textplace and argue for our points.We really should do that at sone point.


    Agreed Luke would be a wonderful father. Then again, I accept a kid like Ben would be an almost premature teen, and have a lot of need to define himself with two so strong and famous parents. And I think it became clear pretty quickly that it was a teen revolt - not a kid who didn't feel loved. And in FOTJ we've gotten the explanation why Ben pulled away from the Force in DNT. Or was it already in NJO?

    And when did Luke become reserved? I accept that he acts reserved, since he's become this super-Jedi who everyone knows - but I think it would hurt him to the core of his sould to act like that.
  17. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    To have Mara analyze, evaluate her options, and finally reevaluate her next strategy in any book with her as a protagnist only to have her go off her own without telling anyone her plan just doesn't make any sense.

    Actually in the EU he doesn't just wear black, he has worn tan, white, and even green robes in Union.

    To use his gifts in obvious and creative ways

    among others....*the gun of command* ;)


    I kind of hope he would stay for the whole trilogy as the movies need a one view direction. For movies outside the trilogy I think it's fine they use different directors.

    Luke lacking spirit is like Luke being not involved in the action.

    you think ? :p

    the sad thing is Del-Rey hasn't addressed this issue .

    actually it's vice-versa...Black in the books/comics is one of his main attires....BUT he does wear other robes like tans and browns, and he also wears green robes in Union
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  18. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Exactly!

    Exactly! No, actually, it's worse, i think [face_thinking]


    Black is standard in fanfic - but in novels he gets to wear tans too. But I think that 'green' in Union is supposed to be black - it just the matte fabric of the Jedi Robes. Unless Stackpole specifically wants Luke to add some glamour to Corran's standard outfit :p

    I still think he was best in Rebel Stand; chapter five :D My eternal thanks to Aaron Allston who gave us that moment! [:D]
  19. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    if you miss one or the other than you definitely are missing a huge part of the character

    well considering he wore it in SOTE, TaB, Mindor, CoPL(although it's describe as gray but then again Wolverton screw up with colors) TTT, JAT, TNR, DS, CotJ, PoT, HoT, SQ, and all of NJO, LotF and FotJ...it's no wonder why.

    FotJ being one and I think JAT a bit....although I dunno what other books he wore the tan robes. as for Union he already had a few establishing shots of himself in black so I don't see the panel of himself, Wedge, and Han as anything but being green plus he wore yellow at the ceremony. Perhaps Luke dressed in green cause he was hanging out his fellow Corellians [face_thinking]

    is that when is red ooze eats his clothes ? [face_laugh]
  20. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    kataja:
    But do you think Luke shows much "spirit" in the NJO, DN, LotF, or FotJ. I don't. There was a bit more in some of the scenes with Ben in FotJ, but not much.


    And I think that for the most part, Luke DID act in most of the Bantam books. He was certainly a lot more proactive than he was throughout much of the NJO when he sat back and did nothing because he wasn't sure how to deal with the YV. Meanwhile, Luke's teenage nephew saved the Jedi kids on Yavin IV and led the group that went after the Voxyn queen....


    Which is a skewed kind of thinking. They should have realized that they should have showed a good relationship between Luke and his son without killing off Mara. And they should have known that they had "pushed the tragedy too much". Sheesh! We had already lost Anakin and Chewie. They had turned Jacen into a Sith Lord. How much more should one family have to take??? Plus, look at all of the characters that Del Rey wasted and never replaced with other new very important heroic characters.


    MS had said that he wanted to see Luke looking like his avatar, but in all black in Episode VII. I was just commenting that I would prefer that Luke wear more varied colors than just blacks, but that I also didn't want to see him always in browns and tans like the prequel Jedi.

    It wasn't that much of a "superman" scene. Luke was able to pilot the Falcon on his own while firing the quad guns. While that would be pretty impossible for a non-Force sensitive, I don't see that as all that spectacular for a Jedi with the Force's help.


    No! No! You misunderstood me... I'm saying that's why I think you think that Luke is more brooding in Bantam: because we "got inside his head" more often and we got to know how he feels about training Jedi, etc. I think it makes Luke seem more worried and brooding because we're privy to his thoughts. If we had gotten into Luke's head more often in the Del Rey books, I think you might have felt that Luke was worried and brooding in those books too. Luke wasn't a point of view character as much in most of the more recent fiction. Other characters were instead, so we just more often read about what Luke did and said, not about how he felt about what was happening. I think that makes a difference.


    Unless we take it book by book, textplace by textplace and argue for our points.We really should do that at sone point.

    Yes! We really should!



    Perhaps, but not to the point that he would do things that he knew were wrong just to spite his parents... like join the GAG and do some of the very wrong things that he did with them. Plus, I don't think he should have had such a terrible rift with Luke. Sometimes it seemed like Ben didn't love his father at all.


    I think Luke was even somewhat more mature and reserved in a few places in RotJ. I think Luke's experience on Bespin...combined with his Jedi training... affected him profoundly.






    MasterSkywalker86:
    Definitely!
  21. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    The first half of NJO had him benched so no, the latter half seem to have him more like himself yet still restraining his Force use til TUF, although the Force Heretic trilogy didn't do much to help his character. DN he was much more of spirit and active than most of the NJO, although the Potentium view put some of the actions of the jedi in a gray area. LotF seem alright, although you would argue about him being a vengance killer in Sacrifice while I'm willing to give him a pass.. FotJ had him probably the most in character but there were a mighty lack of wow moments from his character.

    but Child how will they sell the books ? good plots and great characterizations ???? psah that'll only get you so far. 8-} :p

    it was still a grand feat for the jedi knight and one we have not seen replicated by any other jedi so it seems like rare thing for a jedi to accomplish. he piloted as well as manned the guns of the falcon with a mixture of telekinesis, precision, and mastery that Han said no one could fly this well....no one was that good. This feat demonstrate Luke's inheritance of his father's flight skills.

    that rift between them could have been resolve rather easily if Luke was allowed to use common sense and reason in the conversation between them....sadly the plot must come first :rolleyes: It was Bloodlines where the rift started and where Luke could have answered Ben simply about why he had to destroy the Death Star.

    well duh :p but I think Kataja is using the word reserved in a different matter than we're thinking of...perhaps detached or lacking in spirit than being calm and cool.
  22. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Ok... point. :p

    I distinctly remember him wearing tans in some NJO too. maybe Balance point... [face_thinking]
    Where do you think its green?

    Yeps. Best scene in SW - EVER!!! :D


    Well, define spirit, lol, but yes, I think so. Humor, drive and good spirits. But as I said, below, we won't move this discussion unless we start a stextstudy of the actual novels, and I admit RL doesn't allow me that for the next couple of months, not properly anyway.


    That's true. Start of NJO is a sad chapter in Luke-writing. Ok, VP starts out fine, and Dar Tide is ok, but then it just dives... Not as bad as Han, though...

    But it's not that he doesn't act in the Bantams - he's just so...blah. I think Leia's observation of him in CotJ (p.8) is sympthomatic for many other novels:
    Haunted is used in Luke's initial scene in Jedi Search too (p.16) Now, I think the reason Hambly writes him like this is simply to create a scenery where Callista can come in as the salvaging angle, and make Luke blossom again - indeed, Zahn's working a similar pattern, only with a different savior - while Anderson and Wolverton are more interested in the mysterious Jedi Master.

    In contrast, I liked a scene like this quiet one in Rebel Stand where Luke is also tired and troubled, but where I think he still comes off quite different (I've cut a bit in it but it's pages 212 and 213):


    Ah, sorry. And maybe you're right. Or maybe it all comes down into the writing. I dunno.



    That we should. Soon! :p



    This is true - and I also think that in retrospect, it makes sense taht he had this period of his life (4-19 ABY) where he's battling so much stuff that he almost changes personality. My objection is that I don't think that was intentional from the editors or the authors - they just wrote him all JediMasterlike - not farmboy-like. And definitely not Roguish. And I'm personally very happy he's seemed more balanced and happy since. I'm a bit annoyed Zahn established that Luke and Mara hardly saw each ther the first three years - and even more annoyed she became ill soon after, but i hope they had a few cloudless years before the illsness and Vong war!!!



    This is pretty much my take on it too. And I'm not bothered by the lack of wow moments :p I think Luke seems perrty happy, actually, since TUF - DNT is a massive galactic therat - but on personal level he's not really affacted, is he? Then there's Mara's death - whihc is of course a major blow. But the way he's portrayed in FOTJ, already Inferno, actually, he's regained his inner balaance and good spirits admirable well. And the short moemnt in Apocalypse where he's ready to die and reunite with Mara - but as quick to return to life - is really a moment that confirms this to me!!!



    Exactly.I f.ex., would be perfectly happy with seeign nothing moreSW than one lushious desription of Luke and Mara's marital happiness after another - but unofrtunately, I don't really count as average. They have to sell the books - and they have to try something new once in a while. We got the Bantams - fine. We got NJO - fine - We got LOTF and FOTJ. And a number of others standalones to trilogies. All in all, that's a pretty nice variation. But I really look forward to more of the last chategory!!! I just hope they standalones will be continuity-aware, and use the opportunity to patch the holes that ther books and series have caused - not rummage around and state things that causes new gaps! *cough* like SQ's first there years statement *cough*




    Yeah... I think, actually, he way it was 'placed' in the book, it was a bit over the top. I didn't mind it myself, but I think people hardly that fond of LKuke'øs character, found it to be way too much. I think that scene is one of the reason's some people accuse Luke to just wave his hand and save the day.

    Yeah. The massive lack of communication between the characters was LOTF's worst sin. And in restrospect, I think Traviss was much cause to this. I also think she was the one who referred to a lot of yelling in the Skywalker family. I just can't see Luke yell to Ben. To Mara, certainly - those few times when she'd really know exactly how to push him :p - but not to his son. And I think the scene in Exile where he trains with Ben without a power cell in his lightsaber, is a perfect example of how yto write Luke as father in character.

    Exactly. Thanks for being my beta, MS! [:D]
    Last edited by kataja, Feb 3, 2013
  23. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    I win:D

    I think so too but I dunno where, I know for a fact he wore black in TUF which is oddly displayed in tan in couple of images out there. I don't get the mix up but whatever

    lol somehow I knew you highlight it....you wouldn't have the actual quote that Mara said during that scene ?

    I think you mean they wrote with him with little to none of his personality.....at least in regards to CoPL, I think Hambly did a pretty decent characterization.....BUT she had the issue of injuring Luke and made him fell in love with a ghost. KJA wrote the character very detached...burdened and very "messiah like" than his actual heroic persona.

    on a personal level...I would say it varies. The final battle of TUF had Luke, Jacen, and Jaina fighting the elite of the elite before Shimarra. Luke is seen taking the offensive so he bears the brunt of the attack rather his family does, he has the added weight of making sure his family doesn't get hurt. In DN the only thing that Raynar and Lomi could use against Luke was doubt/fear in regards to his wife...so when Lomi threaten Mara I would say it made it very personal to Luke. I say there should always be a mandatory wow moment when Luke is around...as it's been part of his character since he destroyed he Death Star ;)

    ok I can see this.

    actually I was being sarcastic;) If Mindor and the new Brian Wood comic is any indicator character pieces can sell well and tell a good solo story. It's a shame that we only hear about Luke and Mara's Force bond in VotF and SQ but not get the proper evolution of this ability in further books. When they both join initially it was clearly out of instinct but I think after further years of being married it grew more.

    Actually while it is a "wow" moment clearly it's not that over the top when you think about it. He doesn't use telekinesis on the actual Falcon and fly it just using his mind....BUT he uses telekinesis to operate the gunner controls to multitask and flew with his force enhanced sensory abilities to fly the Falcon without a fault.

    personally I prefer the scene of Luke floating in the sky while telekinetically lowering Isolder's snubfighter

    this needs to be fixed!!!!

    also the book is Tempest where Luke has Ben spar with him, the point of the exercise was for Ben to get Luke to ignite his saber. Luke didn't have any power cell in his saber to prove to Ben that Luke had a point. Ben needed more training

    no problem.....what's a beta ?:confused:
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Feb 3, 2013
  24. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Ok, Balance Point, p 44
    Mayeb we should collect some more tan quotes?



    Of course, Master. It unfolds like so:

    (Rebel Stand pages 106-107)


    I actually agree very much with this. Luke was in many ways good in COPL - but apart from what you mention, she also made his thus burdened in the start - and I can't forgive her for allowing him to just leaving Cray to her destiny - first on the Eye of the Palpatine (where he hands out with Callista for ages instead of helping) - and then wihout a word to her death. But messiah-like is a good word for JAT Luke. I have the feeling there - and in COPL that they try to make Luke this Obi-Wan figure already, instead of focusing on the human behind.


    A mandatory wow moment? [face_thinking] Maybe... But I meant that DNT doesn't leave much of a mark - his doubts and fears there is something he overcomes already inside the story - and so completely that Lomo Plo for all her tricks and nest-power can't use it against him.

    Yes, its'a shame. Though it's actually there in BP as well as in SBS. And in the latter its further compared to the Jedi Battle Meld that they start to use in NJO - but then seem to forget all about.

    Thing is, I guess, taht there's so many aspects and details in SW, that one writer simply can't remember them all - not to speak include them into a story. It's sad, but it's the fact.

    It was Tempest? I remembered Exile, but I didn't check it, so...

    A beta reader is one who checks a text for faults; typos, contradictions etc.. Personally, when I write fanfiction in English, I'm desperately dependent on one, since english isn't my mother tongue! I can easily write: "on that faithful day" when I mean "on that fateful day" - and a spellcheck would never discover it. Not to speak of all kind of subtleties I miss or get wrong. My current facfic beta; amazing frodogenic, has saved me from embarssament many times, I can tell you!!! :p
    Last edited by kataja, Feb 3, 2013
  25. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    MasterSkywalker86:
    Well, in DN, Luke was also portrayed as being doubtful, which is why he couldn't see Lomi Plo. He also was written as very concerned about Mara fairly often. Plus, Luke was doing some dark, questionable things, using dark emotions to fuel his Force powers, so I think any "spirit" that Luke had was sort of "wrong-spirited". :p

    But Luke never believed in the Potentium.


    I wouldn't say that Luke was "all right" in LotF at all!!!!! Not only was he portrayed as a vengeance killer in Sacrifice, but he was also portrayed as almost uncontrollably angry at one point. I felt that Luke was presented as "darkish" in some of the other books too. He seemed rather cold and unfeeling in Invincible, for example. Luke didn't care about much of anything in a couple of books after Sacrifice, and Ben was even concerned at one point that Luke might be suicidal. Luke also kept losing to Lumiya in LotF, and in his fight with Jacen after finding Ben in the Embrace of Pain, Luke purposely struck Jacen where he knew it would hurt the most... in his kidneys. Plus, Luke and Mara weren't portrayed as very good parents either.



    Probably only because no other Jedi would be willing to risk flying the Falcon without Han's permission! ;):p


    Exactly! And I always hate it when authors throw Luke's character under the bus to serve their plots. :(







    kataja:
    That makes two of us!!!


    Exactly!!!


    I can't say that we've seen much of the Farmboy or Rogue in the Del Rey portrayals either.
    I'm not sure that I'd say that we've seen a very happy Luke either.

    Well, he only returned because Mara wouldn't let him die! ;) She pushed him back into the land of the living!


    I think MS was being sarcastic. :p

    I'd definitely like to see more stand-alone novels too though.



    I really didn't see that Millennium Falcon scene as being "over the top". It was just amazing to Han and others because they weren't used to seeing Jedi in action. When you think about it, piloting a ship alone wasn't all that amazing. Luke has always been portrayed as an excellent pilot even without his Force gifts. And for a Jedi, I don't think it would have been that hard to shoot guns telekinetically either.


    Hmm... I didn't remember that Traviss said that about the Skywalker family... I could see her doing that though. Look at how angry she wrote Luke about Ben's boots during LotF. But I agree with you: Luke wouldn't yell at Ben.







    MasterSkywalker86:
    I agree! I too am disappointed that Luke and Mara's bond wasn't brought up and utilized more often.