Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    also another thing of consideration, it never occurred to me how cold and complacent the old jedi order had become til I recently saw the season 5 finale of TCW. The Order's view of ostracizing Ashoka when she was accused instead of working with her makes me hope that in the ST Luke's NJO will overcome the weaknesses of the OJO and demonstrate the strength that comes from love, friendship, family, teamwork, honor, duty, and being ethical.
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Mar 2, 2013
  2. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Did anyone read the blurb for Crucible??? Here it is from the Clubjade site:


    I don't know about you, but I wasn't excited about Crucible before, and this doesn't do anything to change that. In fact, it makes me even less enthusiastic about it.

    Again with Galaxy-wide domination? Didn't we get enough of that with the Empire, the Ssi-Ruvi, the Yuuzhan Vong, a couple of Sith groups, the Yevetha, etc.??? And "monstrous aliens" again? :rolleyes:

    And Luke and Leia need to take on some kind of artifact that can bend time, space, and the Force??? What can possibly do that? And we're back to another "apocalyptic nightmare" again? Didn't Luke and company already face that with Abeloth????

    Once again it seems like the author wants to "one up" the last series just as he and his cohorts wanted to one-up the series before that and the one before that. The more crazy things get for Luke and his era, the more I'm certain that a rewrite from a t least the end of SQ would be the best thing for Luke and for all of the characters.

    Plus, we still don't know how Denning is going to handle Luke's Force disability in Crucible. :(






    MasterSkywalker86 :
    Then I hope he remembers that Obi-wan quote about Luke.
    .


    That's a really excellent point, MS! I do hope that they compare and contrast the difference between Luke's choice and Anakin's, and continue that to Luke ushering in that golden age of peace and living to a ripe, old age. I truly would love to see Luke eventually enjoy a "happily ever after", something he definitely didn't get in the EU from Del Rey.


    I agree. I don't think he would have been so naive and clueless about what was going on with Gantoris and Kyp either. Luke is pretty perceptive as well as cautious, and shouldn't Luke have gotten some warnings through the Force too?

    Oh, I agree! I don't watch TCW, but that does sound like a cold, heartless act by the Order. I do hope that we're going to see a much improved Jedi Order with Luke's new Jedi. I like the way that you said that they should demonstrate the "strength that comes from love, friendship, family, teamwork, honor, duty and strong ethics."
  3. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    yeah it doesn't thrill me either :rolleyes: it sounds like an amalgam of all the story lines prior, we already dealt with monstrous aliens (vong NJO), we dealt with terrorism(LOTF), and we dealt with multiple glimpses of apocalyptic nightmares(Jacen and Abeloth). Why combine them all to make a super story ? It doesn't sound like the solo story we were hoping for, especially with the stakes so high. And another issue is the fact that the sith and Abeloth are still around.

    sort of reminds you of Garu in the Crystal Star right ? :p actually this could be the follow up to the Mortis story line in Apocalypse. If that's the case I might be interested [face_thinking]

    yeah I get that vibe, and the feeling that there is going to be too many plots within the plot.

    well it's not mention so that could be good.

    same here, there should be a happy peaceful send off to the old gen instead of sending them to their deathbeds.

    I was shocked that the duel with Gantoris didn't tip him off at all, he didn't even give Gantoris a time out [face_not_talking]

    Exactly at least we can see that in Luke's Order when done right. that's one of the problem of the OJO, they remained too apathetic on a general basis to keep their guard up against the dark side. They should have instead embraced the aspects of the Light Side that they had forgone due to their fear of "attachment". Love, selfless love won't lead you to the dark side in fact if anything it'll destroy the selfish nature of the DS. Obsession was Anakin's downfall not love, and as proven it was love and family that saved the galaxy. Anakin's son defeated the sith known as Vader and refused to killed his father, through those actions Luke saved the jedi that was his dad. And in turn it was his dad who saved him from Sidious in his one last act of life. The jedi need to know how to cope with love, lost of love, as that's a part of life. Love, family, bonds, and friendship seem like necessities to the jedi don't you think ?
  4. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    OK, yeah, I blatantly ripped this off from the Crucible thread, but it's too fun not to be shared wider!

    Behold! The "ruthless geniuses":

    [IMG]

    More seriously, uh... yeah.... not exactly enthused by that blurb, but I have legions of guinea pigs in the form of the other posters who will buy and read it for me! Heh.

    How do you go from controlling mining to dominating the galactic economy? Surely it'd be too large and too diversified for even the SW EU equivalent of the Q Group to pull off?

    And then there's an artifact that can be bend time and space? OK, I'm calling it now - they enter it, the world spins away and Luke wakes up on Endor with a load of Ewoks looking at him, with the hangover from hell!

    Or, this turns up:

    [IMG]

    And this guys invites them for a ride:

    [IMG]
    MasterSkywalker86 likes this.
  5. Nobody145 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 4
    Another boring fate of the galaxy book, nothing to see here, move along, move along. [face_tired] Although by now I'll take generic over stupid. At least mediocre is less to get worked up about then ludicrous. Only a few short excerpts so far, so not sure if I'm happy Luke isn't crippled, or slightly annoyed they just ignored that injury from Apocalypse. Well, as long as Luke is portrayed as appropriately powerful. Funny how it comes full circle, back during the Bantam days this kind of summary would have been normal. Either some Imp warlord, dark Jedi (or both in some cases) and people got tired of that, so instead they brought on the Vong. And the NJO is an impressive achievement, perhaps it set the bar too high, but that doesn't excuse the really low standard established by the post-NJO novels. And on top of all that, there's the uncertainty of what's next for the Star Wars EU with Episode VII coming up. Knowing how Lucasfilm operates, we probably won't be fortunate to see a new publisher (I'm still more worried about the Star Wars comic license).

    It'd be nice if Jedi could strike a nice balance between family, attachments and normal life, the problem is that plenty of stories have guardians lose someone else, a fellow officer, a family member or even just a random innocent and it causes problems. The problem for Jedi is that once they start being depressed and angry it is really hard to stop, so I can understand why the Jedi went for the simple solution and just said no attachments. Its not the best solution for every case, and the prequel era was getting too set in their ways, but for most Jedi, the vast majority, it worked out fine. Although the vast majority also didnt' have as much raw power or suffered as much as Anakin Skywalker, his destiny was too much for him alone. It took Luke to reach him at Endor, and while Dark Empire is... campy somewhat, the basic message at the end, that Luke and Leia need to work together to defeat Palpatine, is an important one for Star Wars.

    By the way, for the Gantoris fight, it is pretty silly, but the I, Jedi book by Stackpole adds some background to it so it doesn't seem quite as bad. Corran asks if Gantoris gets off with no punishment for trying to kill Luke, but Luke counters that Gantoris already regrets it and won't do it again, so any additional punishment isn't going to do anything. Maybe Luke should have asked Gantoris for more answers, but then Gantoris was killed shortly afterward, although at least Gantoris didn't fall at the end, even if he died horribly.

    Pinkie and the Brain was so funny. Too bad Doctor Who isn't as funny as he used to be (he spends half the time depressed these days, such as the last Christmas special), although that seems to be endemic of current fiction too.

    Not that its much comfort, but turns out the TCW can't do a decent trial of a Jedi story either, so its not just Luke's NJO that would have had trouble with someone like Jacen. But then TCW can't do much decently, but at least the prequel era Jedi Order couldn't handle dealing with a supposed Jedi criminal and maintain a good relation with the Republic (but then at least they were dealing with a Sith Lord, instead of a well-meaning Omas and... well, not much else to say about Omas' successors by this point).
  6. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Oh, I wouldn't worry Nobody, at most the Doctor's fits of depression tends to be resolved in the space of an hour! Each time though there has been due cause for it too. The Doctor isn't good at farewells nor at what he considers to be losing people.
  7. Nobody145 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 4
    True, its just kind of funny, at first I thought they were going for a Christmas Carol story, but they already did that just a few years ago with this same Doctor already. Well, mainly because of how much during the last season it was hammered in that those last two were special and he would protect them and... whoops. Not a complete failure, but still, had to clear house for the next super-duper companion. And even before that, there had been several points when they could have parted amicably but it had to end in heartbreak for the Doctor again.

    When did protecting people become such an occasion for angst? Even the Batman comics recently had a crossover about it (although it was also better written and avoided most of the cliches too, though was still quite a dark story without going for just more gore, something Invincible and Apocalypse could really take a lesson from). Probably because protecting someone means failing, and its part of the reason both Anakin Skywalker and Jacen Solo fell, although it was more their own character flaws than anything else. Its why the Jedi no attachment thing is in theory the least painful way to live, just leave everything up to the Force and it'll all work out eventually. In the RotS novelization, I think that was how Obi-wan was described sometimes, a Jedi who viewed themselves as a servant of the Force above all and it worked out for him mostly (finding convenient escape vehicles and such). Although following the Force doesn't guarantee a nice life, but for Jedi, it usually guarantees a worthwhile life at least. Whether the Jedi is willing to settle for that, that's the test of character.

    Luke losing Mara and then almost immediately killing Lumiya in revenge isn't a good example, but in later books (written by better authors) Luke is in better shape at least, in terms of dealing with the grief and looking after Ben and saving the galaxy (again). I forget which book, and not sure which time period actually, but I think in one of the later LotF books he semi-jokes about losing faith in the Force if things don't work out, but I think it was a joke, but still, that kind of thing is not usually something to joke about. As Cade later finds out, trying to avoid your destiny really only leads to more trouble. Its not always a nice life for Jedi, but its usually an admirable life at least. When Jaina was dubbed Sword of the Jedi, that kind of summed it up, in a somewhat morbid manner, and while not entirely inaccurate, just wish it hadn't been so... bluntly stated, as ever since then Jaina's been saddled with the title, not as if Jaina already didn't have enough emotional baggage, carrying on after Anakin Solo's death, reconnecting with her twin brother, saving the galaxy, and now she's the only Solo child alive and a senior Jedi.

    Luke losing Mara is a bad example of how Jedi deal with attachments, although those were extreme circumstances (murdered by their own nephew), but the other extreme, of Luke barely reacting to Kenth's death, also isn't good. But then there wasn't much good about FotJ, so Luke's lack of reaction (he was busy, but still) and then barely any follow-up with the Jedi Council about it (all swept away to make room for the final battle after eight books of meandering around) isn't the right solution either. But then just maturely dealing with loss is part of growing up, and while I'm tired of all the post-Yavin, pre-Hoth Luke stories, one of the (many) nice things about the current Star Wood comics is that we see Luke still struggling to deal with losing Obi-wan and being hailed as the hero of Yavin. By the Empire/Rebellion comic, he had settled in and was haunted more by questions of what Obi-wan didn't tell him about his father (
  8. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Quite a few people, myself included, were feeling more for Rory's dad, Brian, over the loss of the Ponds as opposed to the Doctor!
  9. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    I'll take a look at it it but at this point the book is not faring well by default with a blurb "that emphasizes the fate of the galaxy". at this point I expect another war to unfold by Luke simply using the restroom. :rolleyes: Why does the galaxy has to be hostile every 5 minutes ?

    where have you seen the short excerpts ???? This is at least good news considering how much Child was worry about it, it might not save the book but at least they didn't follow the ongoing trend of crippling him..

    I think the Vong storyline worked as well it did due to the mystery surrounding their origins and nature, the release of the PT also help. Also the stakes were raised with these new foes but I think 18 books would have tired out the most die hard fan.Plus the sad thing is they feel each series Post NJO has to up the ante....:rolleyes:

    and there should be a coping lesson for the jedi when dealing with loss, in fact most of Luke's life had been dealing with loss of his love ones and coping, since the start of the jedi career. While handling Mara's death was the final straw for him in some regards the other jedi should have mourn with him while keeping him out of action and doing something he might regret later

    I think it's a message that should be used more often, like in the KOTOR comics. JJM highlighted one of the most important aspects of the OT and the Light Side.

    it stills seems flimsy at best, Luke could have him in a type of jedi detention(ysalmari) where he meditates/cools off with one of the senior jedi keeping an eye on him(Kam, Mara)
  10. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    MasterSkywalker86:
    It does, doesn't it???


    I suppose it might be, and I wasn't very thrilled with Apocalypse either!

    Yes, things definitely went downhill from there for Luke, the other characters, AND the entire galaxy.


    Exactly! Why are so many people in such a hurry to see Luke, Leia, and Han killed off?


    And that made Luke seem truly clueless.




    I completely agree about that.

    I *do*! I just hope that the creators of the sequel trilogy agree with us!








    Jedi Ben:
    LOL! ;)

    Get it from the library, JB and find out what Denning has done to Luke and the galaxy firsthand!



    You would think so, wouldn't you???



    That would probably be a lot better story than we're probably going to get!









    Nobody145 :
    I don't think we learned from that blurb whether or not Luke is Force crippled. We won't know that probably until we read the book and find out whether Luke is less powerful than he was before, or whether he can still perform amazing Force feats that he could once do. We know Luke isn't dead, and we know that he is still able to function physically. I don't think we know if Luke can still use the Force powerfully and well.


    That's still the million dollar question: Will Luke be portrayed as "appropriately powerful".

    I understand what you're saying here, N, but I still feel that Jedi should be allowed to marry and have families. Everyone forms attachments. If it's not to a husband/wife and child, it would be to a fellow Jedi or a mentor. As MS said earlier, it's obsessions, not love that was the problem. I'm glad that Luke allowed marriage and families in his Jedi Order, and I hope we'll find that families are allowed when we meet the Jedi of the ST too.

    Well, I wish that message would have been brought out in a different way. As you know, I'm really NOT a fan of DE.


    No, it definitely isn't, and it's probably my least favorite scene in all of the EU. I truly feel that Luke shouldn't have been written this way. The hero should be portrayed as doing the RIGHT thing, not the same thing that his villainous father did in the PT. At this point in his life, Luke has been preaching about NOT doing this like this for several decades. He was also the JEDI GRAND MASTER, and should have been shown giving his students a good example. I think Traviss wanted to trash the Jedi again, and she did it this way by making the leader of the Jedi do a very dark and wrong thing.


    I agree about both.







    MasterSkywalker86:
    That's a good point, MS.
  11. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Actually, maybe more the opposite, if you take my meaning ;)


    This is very true, I think.

    Haven't seen the end of Season 5, but I wholehartedly agree. Even my young son reacted vehemently against Mace's reply to Anakin in ROTS when he reveals the true identity of Palpatine ~ 'if that's is true, you've won my confidence' It's so cold and distant - and STILL doubting!!! He should feel the agony Anakin's into, and realize he's only been able to to the right thing with the uttermost willpower! :mad:

    I definitely hope (and believe!!!) that Luke's Jedi will act differently!


    Yup - and as I in general think blurbs are stupid and misleading, I'm not excited abut this one either ;) On the other hand, I still very much look forward to the book.

    And I think the blurb strengthens my theory that Cricible is preparing the EU for the ST

    Well, you might still have you will [face_batting]

    Exactly!!!

    Second that!!!

    Yeah, I'm no big I, Jedi fan - but at least Stackpole manages to make Luke look better in general without adding a lot other stuff to the havoc as Zahn does.
    Last edited by kataja, Mar 4, 2013
  12. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    and if you read the latest rumors in the episode 7 forum, there is only one child and grandchild featured. So that is Jaina and Allana, unless they start from scratch. Where is Ben? anyway i wonder fi this time bending artifact somehow is used to destroy th current eu, and so we start over.
  13. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    So long as his existence is not directly contradicted -- he can be wherever we want him to be!
    kataja likes this.
  14. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    lol. I can only hope he still exists
  15. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    I really find it hard to believe they let go of the name Skywalker! And rumors are just rumors until there's any official confirmation
  16. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    I'm really not exactly enthused enough to do so! I have a to-read list pile that, depending on how you look at it, is in double figures or thousands of pages!
  17. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    I'm only hanging on the interest of the idea of Luke becoming a Force god(ie the Mortis arc)....so that's the only thing that has kept me from writing the entire story off ;)

    here's hoping the ST reboots that into something more peaceful and happy than what we been getting.

    I know right! It's been 30 years since we last seen the Big 3 and the first thing everybody wants to see is them dead as soon as the scene focuses on them :rolleyes:

    same here but I imagine them as big fans of the trilogy would understand the significance of these memorable characters.

    humans are social creatures by nature while the jedi understandably need to keep balance with being reserved, the OJO went overboard by distancing themselves from attachments and life itself. That made them weaker in the LS of the Force as they didn't kept attuned to the more important aspects of the Force. Force bonds themselves are a pretty good indicator from the Force itself on where it stands on family I think.

    good looking in a plain sort of sense ? I think I understand

    the fact that they were easy to give up on Ashoka despite time and again proving her worth paints the OJO as the definition of cold. This makes sense as the jedi have refused on the idea of love as a whole.


    lol and you're suppose to be the optimistic one.
  18. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5

    kataja:
    I hope so too!

    AND, I really, REALLY hope that Luke will have a child of his own. The rumors that have been going around have been that we'll be introduced to one child and one grandchild of Han and Leia in the ST, but there is no news at all about Ben or another Skywalker child. I will be so terribly disappointed if Luke doesn't have a child in the new films. :(


    Spoken like a true EU optimist!


    But what about the Jaina books then??? Plus, I think that Crucible was already written, or at least well underway when the news about the ST came out, wasn't it?



    I don't know that he makes Luke "look better" though. I think he makes him look too naive and clueless, and he seems to try to make Corran look superior to Luke. He even had Corran, a Jedi trainee of about a week or two, beat Luke in a lightsaber skirmish! And Corran hadn't used one before as Luke did! It was just ridiculous in my opinion, and the purpose just seemed to be to make Corran look great and Luke look weak and kind of dumb. I wasn't impressed with I, Jedi at all!







    JediMatteus:
    Well, it is only a rumor, but I really am worried that we might not get a Skywalker child and that would really be terrible, in my opinion.

    That's an interesting thought, JM. I hadn't even considered that.








    Tim Battershell:
    Hi, Tim! That might be true, but I really wouldn't like it if Ben or another Skywalker child doesn't appear in the film. Why would Luke interact with a niece/nephew and not with his own son if he existed?







    JediMatteus:
    I agree. I hope he still exists too.







    kataja:
    I agree, K, but sadly, Lucas has said that Luke doesn't get married in his universe. I really, REALLY hope he has changed his mind about that, or that Disney can convince him that having a Skywalker for the future is the best way to go for later stories.






    More another time!
  19. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    I think it's safe to assume the big 3 will be in the ST after the Leia confirmation
  20. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    yep. fine by me. i jjst want to have Ben and Jaina. I don't even really care about Allana, except for the fact we need young people with a future in Star wars. We have no replacement han Solo anywhere.
  21. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Hamill better hit the gym and get a personal trainer, start working on the gun Luke :cool:
  22. Skaddix Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2012
    star 4
    Depends on how many orginals they bring back. U can make Lando's kid in the Han Solo Role or a new character.
  23. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Jedi Ben:
    I understand! And definitely much of the post SQ EU isn't worth wasting time on anyway, in my opinion.







    MasterSkywalker86:
    Good luck with that, MS. I rather doubt you're going to see that in Crucible.


    That's kind of what I'm hoping for, yes. I'd like them to overwrite everything after SQ.


    I agree with you. Someone on the ST boards posted something that I agree with as well. That person disagreed with Yoda about attachments. This is part of what he/she said:

    I feel pretty much the same way. People are more grounded, stable, and secure when they have strong relationships with others. They also have a support system as well.

    That's a great point, MS! I really do hope that we'll find that Luke DOES allow marriage and families in his Jedi Order, and I hope that Luke will have a family too.

    I understand that her publicist backtracked on that one, so nothing is official yet.








    JediMatteus: i
    I too hope that they will exist in the ST. I'd like to see Luke with more than one child, but I really hope that we get at least Ben.
  24. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
  25. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Quite seriously, why?