Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Jedi Ben
well I'm hoping Hamill more or less resembles my avatar in the ST, or as close as possible. While Hamill is by no means obese he has let himself get pudgy(probably the focus on voice acting instead of live action) these last couple of years. Nothing but a little exercise can shape him back to the jedi master he used to be Plus I also hope Hamill will get involve in a bit of actual sword fighting besides the given digital stunt double.

Del-Rey has been batting 1000 in crushing my dreams so no surprises there. still I can hope

might as well, I'm even willing to overlook the entire EU as long as they borrow some of the more popular elements(such as Mara, Luke building the Order, Luke's marriage, etc). I think Del-Rey has written the Legacy era into a hole and it's to the point that there is no going back. GL regarded the books as AU, so I'm more or less expecting it

exactly, people need people also to have a stable mentality.

also the films emphasize that with Luke and Leia's twin Force bond. Hopefully GL, Ardnt, and Abrams will remember it.

seems like there was some truth according to Lucas

 

That's kind of what I'm hoping for, yes. I'd like them to overwrite everything after SQ.

that would be horrible we would lose the great adventures of jaina, Anakin and Jacen, and lose TUF Luke 's best moment ever

 

And even worse, we'd keep SQ.

 

Arawn_Fenn,

I take it you didn't like it ?

 

SQ was a good novel. I enjoyed it.

 

I doubt they really care about the EU at all its going to get obliterated if it happens after the OT. Everything before the PT though should make out fine. Until Disney spins out a KOTOR movie.

 

I can say at least one positive thing about it.

It cured me of my Zahn addiction.

 

MasterSkywalker86:

Yes, I read that. It sounded like it's a done deal. Then GL just backtracked a bit because he realized he probably shouldn't have let the "cat out of the bag" so to speak.

I agree that Del Rey has pretty much "written the Legacy era into a hole", so I do think that wiping out most of what has been written after SQ might bring some hopeful optimism back to the SW galaxy... not to mention, bring some characters like Mara, Chewie, Anakin, and Jacen back to life.

And yes, I definitely want to find that Luke has rebuilt the Jedi Order. I also want to see his Order following different traditions than the PT Jedi. I especially want Luke and those other Jedi who wish to do so to be allowed to marry and have families, and I don't want to see the Jedi Order taking infants from families and not allowing the families to have any contact with their children/siblings.

Right!

That would be great!

It does seem to be pretty much confirmed if Lucas himself says they will be in it.








JediMatteus:

I think we could get other great adventures for Jaina, Anakin, and Jacen that don't involve the YV. That war makes the war of the PT and OT seem like small skirmishes. I don't think that any EU stories should eclipse the film stories.

As for Luke, I agree that TUF was a very good book for him and that he had a couple of really wonderful scenes. However, I'm willing to let those go so that some of those horrible portrayals of Luke in other NJO books as well as in DN, LotF and FotJ will also be eliminated. I'm hoping that we'll get some other BETTER Luke stories that take place between VotF and Episode VII to take their place.








Arawn_Fenn:

I'm curious, AF: What did you particularly dislike about SQ?

For myself, I liked the sort of mystery story that was SQ, and I think it works so well when you read OF after it. I thought the two of them went so well together. But I'd love to hear why you didn't like it if you don't mind sharing.

Allegiance and CoO cured ME of Zahn. But I'm still hoping that he'll give us another good book in the future.







Skaddix:

You could be right, but I do hope they'll be able to keep at least some of the stories up to SQ.

 

You could say it was a variety of things... Even though it explicitly dwelled on a specific line of dialogue from VOTF that had been particularly interesting to me, I didn't feel like the book followed through with the potential in that reference; in some places I couldn't get a clear mental picture of what was happening due to the description in the text; the Outbound Flight schematic was somewhat amateurish; because of the way the Geroons were presented I got stuck with a less than wonderful mental image of what the Vagaari looked like in armor; it felt like it should have been easier for Luke and Mara to deal with a droideka; the book was fairly short and generally didn't feel like it justified its own existence. Also, I guess what I wanted to see at the time was a story about an actual active Thrawn clone, especially after VOTF, so just teasing the possibility at the end by having the characters speculate about it was not satisfying for me at all. In a similar way, I think I was expecting the book to be more like Outbound Flight, or maybe another way to put it is to say that for me it probably would have been better if OF was released first.

 

It really depends on when the new were broken to Denning. Lucas revealed to Bloomseberg Businessweek http://www.businessweek.com/article...-bought-lucasfilm-and-its-plans-for-star-wars that:

To me, that sounds like a selected number of people have known about the ST for a while already. Of course, we can only guess about who, but with the relatively relaxed and trusted athmosphere I have the feeling of, I think Sue Rostoni would have known. And it doesn't seem far out to me to guess that she'd been allowed to inform a trusted few; like Shelly Shapiro and a few others. Now, Denning's been a key author for a long time, due to his ability to work the long lines, so I could see him knowing from at least working with Apocalypse (and we must assume he had it finished months before the release) - which would also explain why it sort of changes track, compared to the rest of FOTJ. That would mean he'd known for a neat while - and definitelty whil writing Crucible - it could actually explain why Crucible was announced so quickly after Apocalypse! And my personal guess is that Chrstie Golden is also informed while writing Ascension (it has so many rushed sections in it that distinctively differ from her two earlier FOTJ books) - she could have had the idea for SotJ while writing that - creadting a Jaina & Ben bridge for the ST, while Dennings doing the Big3 bridge.

That's a pure gues, of course, but based on things in FOTJ taht ave puzzled me, and that get explained if you cound the ST in.

I woulæd be sad too, to see everything overwritten. I'd mostly wish them to let the EU be, at least for a start. When we've had the ST and how that affects the GFFA and the characters in general, then we can start to discuss if we want to see the inbetween-story told on screen, and what that's supposed t look like.

Yet, he's put down a veto for some things not to happen - like Luke's death - so it's not like he's not disregarding the EU either. I think the grades of canon is actually a sign of the opposite - that he doesn't want to contradict the EU on the main points, but that he knows there will always be details he'll have to overrule in order to do follow his vision.

Like Child, it was CoO that cursed me of my Zahn addiction. Actually I don't think it was a fun thing at all. But you made me lol and I guess that's healthy.

What line of dialogue are you thinking of?

Agreed about the droiddeka. I guess it followed the line of TPM, but I never quite bought how hardfought they were in TPM either - as basically, a Jedi should just be able to lift is with the Force, or cripple it's guns or something. But it was a perfect example of how Zahns loves loong, complicated scenarios. Like that famed Jedi trap in SOTP.

I'm not going to lie, I generally liked SQ, it was wonderful to see Luke and Mara togerther and alone - but I guess just that, would have sold almost any book to me! It also had a lot of really great stuff in it - but in general, I think it had more potential that it fulfilled.

 

at least they did deal with a droidka. Few Jedi in history have had the guts to deal with them. They usually ran.

 

The one from Stent about the hundred different threats in the UR.

 

In the the "How should Luke die" thread on ST, I first time read an absolutely beautiful vision of that sad event:

THAT I'd like to see!

 

Ah, ok. Yeah, it sort of spun out of that, but it didn't weave the story it could have.
Same with Luke & Mara's marriage. I remember Zahn saying in an interview that they were still very newly wed at this point - but I got more the image of an old, steady couple.

 

so how do you feel about the information ? like you and the rest have been saying the safe bet is they all have minimal parts...although I hope they're central characters but the their kids are the main characters. I especially hope Luke has some great things to do in the ST, so Im hoping for more than a minimal part.

agreed, although I hope to see Luke do some greats feats too now that'll be a master, it would be great to see what a Skywalker can truly do.

the thing is though is that Jacen sort of one ups Luke with his moment of oneness in the same book, although Luke's feat was out of skill and attunement to the Force, Jacen's wasn't out of skill but being chosen by the Force.

it didn't help that the race masquerade themselves as a low tech culture as well.

I can understand that, especially for Luke who demonstrated his ability to displace motors in droids and also telekinesis/force crush the droideka itself could have solve the problem relatively easily. But from what I remember though Luke decided to restrained his use of the Force from VOTF on, so using his raw power wasn't an option for him. Also I seem to remember that the droid could gun him down in a split second if he wasn't constantly blocking. I think Zahn was following the PT logic where the jedi simply fled when facing destroyers, but I took it that it was Luke and Mara's first encounter with a new adversary.

I dunno, didn't someone mention Shelly was relatively surprised when she heard the news ? also it seems like if they were in the loop about it the Legacy era would have been largely untouched if the ST is focusing on that era. I remember GL mentioning no more Wookiee jedi after Lowbacca during the PT films, so there might be a correlation.

well if the grades of canon are in fact a sign, wouldn't that mean that films/tv/animation take precedence over the books and comics ? It seems like that will be the trend, and if it is I hope that works in our favor.....*Mara stays alive*

funny thing is I wasn't a big fan of Zahn when first starting out with the EU. I mean an author who reduces the use of the Force for Luke!?!?!?!? lol, well it wasn't til I grew to appreciate his use of Luke's other skills which we don't see very often. His writing on the Trawn trilogy and HoT duology feels the closest to the OT as a continuation aside of Mindor and DE. Also he introduces Luke's wife who is a complex love interest/character on her own. There is also the fact that Zahn acknowledges that Luke could rip a space fleet to shreds if he so chooses, that kinda makes me bias.

although I wasn't a fan of Allegiance, and CoO was great for the plot but not for Luke's character.

right, except at this point Luke decides to restrain his use of the Force, plus the split second concentration of using the Force would be all the time needed for Luke to be gunned down. I suppose Mara could have defended him while he grab the enemy but they were aware of other potential attackers. Or Luke could have simply Force absorb the blaster fire but then he wouldn't be restraining his power I took it as them being careful, Luke and Mara's first encounter with a new enemy and a complex action scene from Zahn. I really dig the scene when Luke and Mara use the Force on corpses creating puppets iof themselves to the Vagari.

same here, it shouldn't be thought of as a successor to VotF which is grand in scope and execution but a nice side story of Luke and Mara as a couple. my gripe is it could have used some more romantic moments, as that never has been Zahn's strong suit.

 

Well, it fits in Zahn's idea to power down Luke, for sure, and I don't actually mind it, it just strikes me as...constucted. And constructed, over-thought, is a thing I've started to get annoyed aboult in his writing in general, I guess.

I dunno either. But she might well have been surprised - question is when she heard the news! I don't thinkt it's a co-incidence that the timeline hasn't been moving forward more than 4 years since 2006, despite 19 books and two series (before, they made big leaps). For a time, they even moved on with ½ a year intervals.Now, at least, we get Crucible which is set a whole year after FOTJ. Besides, - what news? Wchih of them? Most probably didn't know Lucas was toying the idea to sell to Disney - but I'm pretty certain several knew he hadn't abandoned the ST idea completely - and his idea to retire hasn't been exactly a surprise either. Every professional editor would make his/her thoughts - and probably find facts about a number of potetial scenarios too.

I can see that's indeed a crime to you!

Agreed, Zahn deserves all the credic he can get for all that! Plus, as you say - he has some really good stuff also in terms of plot and writing! But he's made a few things lately that i don't like - and that I think he actually should be to good a writer to do. Heck, I'd like to tell him what I mean in a constructive way!

Well, he has the "wanna get off me, or are you just getting comfortable?" line - which is one of the best UST-lines in the EU. Also Luke and Mara's entire relationship in TTT is a masterpiece of UST (unreleased sexual tension). But in SQ they sure are comfortable with each other but also very, very, shall we say - 'un-tense'? And one thing is that you don't mention things, but there aren't even any 'dark' moments where you could the reader can unleash his/her imagination. On the contrary it's mentioned that they're so ´very busy that they don't even have time/energy to talk. And the same is stated about their marriage - that despite been married three years, they haven't had much time to see each other. To me, that's kinda WTF stuff! Plus the two scenes weher we actually see L&M in bed together, they just hold to each other and first time Mara runs off and second they fall asleep. Not very satisfying after TTT, I'd say.

 

Hmm, Iooks like I haz become powahful than you can possibly imagine!

 

I agree 100%, the action scene was a basic depiction of how Zahn can over analyze an action scene, which can be irritating at times. Especially when he already had a good majority of their pre-battle plans in the book. Sometimes it becomes too borderline cerebral that there is no action being made due to the analysis and reevaluation of the current plan. The reader at this point(particularly this reader) could argued that Luke could have simply picked up the droid and crushed, etc. Over-thought is a good term for Zahn's handle of the scene but for some reason I wasn't as bugged as I could have been due to NJO's and VotF's explanation of Luke reducing his Force use.

I dunno....it seems like a stretch for me, considering that Ardnt and Abrams are going with an original story. I dunno how well will mass audiences follow what has happen POST NJO.

it's almost up there with killing off Mara I mean at least he doesn't handicap Luke like other authors have and acknowledges that Luke could simply solve the problem with the wave of his hand like he did in SotP. Still though I prefer to find a balance of Luke using his wits and his power like he did in Mindor. The prevention of the Falcon crashing was Luke's use of the Force in resourceful ways instead of using direct raw power(which he could have), it was a nice balance.

right, he does need some constructive criticism when handling a younger Luke, it's almost like he doesn't much about the character.

I'm sure you can provide us the chronology of Luke and Mara's relationship since their meeting in TTT.

see that's one thing I don't understand, despite their closeness they don't act how regular newlyweds would be. Zahn's handle of relationships beyond first base is one of his weak points. See Union,Onslaught, and Invasion for what I mean There is a good line where Mara said "the worst thing about being married to a jedi master is you can't keep secrets" then a a page later, the best thing about being married to a jedi master is that he knows what you need" or something to that regard.

But Ben you can't die, I came back....er from the movies to complete my training

 

Arawn_Fenn:

Thanks for sharing what you didn't like about SQ.

Yes, I agree about this.

Maybe SQ and OF should have been in the same book? Parts I and II?

Sadly, there have been quite a few books lately that have been short AND padded and shouldn't have existed on their own, in my opinion, especially many of the LotF and FotJ books. I think both of those 9 book series could have been done in a trilogy or less.

I can understand why you would feel that way.

I think a lot of the mystery of SQ would have been lost if OF had come first. I liked that I was trying to figure out what was going on in the past just like Luke and Mara by having SQ first.

But thanks for your explanations. I can see your point of view too.







kataja:

True, but that new person who took Rostoni's place certainly seemed surprised by the announcement of the ST, and she didn't seem to know what would happen with the EU.

I don't know about that, K. If SR would have known about the sequels being made, I would have thought that she wouldn't want to miss out on the excitement of being in the loop about them. OR maybe she did know about the ST and decided to quit because she knew the EU would be overwritten and she didn't want to spend any more time on something that would be changed?
.

I think Crucible was well into production by the time anyone knew about the ST. It takes a long time to go from the beginning of the writing process to printing.

We'll see, I guess, but I really find it hard to believe that the film people will work around 40 years of post RotJ EU. It would severely impact their ability to be creative and do what is best for the films. That's my opinion, at least. I do hope that we get to keep some of the EU, but since there has been so much destruction of the SW galaxy and so much baggage for the characters, especially Luke, Han, and Leia, since SQ, I actually would prefer to see the EU ignored from that point on. I think it would be better for the characters and for the galaxy itself, which has been so badly damaged from the wars with the Vong, Abeloth, the thousands of Sith, etc. Plus, too many of those stories diminish the film wars because they were written to be far worse. No EU villains/wars should eclipse the films, in my opinion.







JediMatteus:

That's a good point!








Arawn_Fenn:

Ah, yes! I wish that more of the authors of the Del Rey EU had used those "hundred different threats" idea instead of using Sith, Sith, and more Sith.... AND the YV!







kataja :

Well, that might be okay as long as Luke is at least 120, and not 65. I'd still rather have Luke surrounded by friends, family, and Jedi and not alone when he becomes One with the Force though.

Yes, I agree about that. They didn't seem much like newlyweds still discovering one another... Though I suppose after that Force bond in VotF they didn't have a whole lot left to discover.

I really wish that more authors would have utilized the special Force bond between them. I remember being so annoyed while reading VP when Mara was being attacked by one of those Vong and Luke was in the same building and had no clue that Mara was even in trouble. That was so disappointing!






More tomorrow!

 

Agreed. He does that pretty often - but someitmes it comes off worse than others. This particular scene didn't bug me that much either, probably since I knew what to expect and I could almost feel how well the droideka fit into Zahn's general plan .It was like, ok, have fun, I'll play along'.

It's no doubt crucible that the plot of the ST has nothing to do with what's happened since NJO. They ahve to start forma 'point blanc'.

Of course! Sadly, there isn't much to tell. Mara's helping to evacuate Coruscant around the time of DE, but it doesn't seem like she and Luke meet. Next affirmed meeting is in Dark Apprentice, where Mara comes to Yavin IV but stays only shortly and leaves in anger. Later we've seen Stackpole soften that a little, among other things to actaully have Mara to stay for several days. Mara passes by after the Exar Kuhn incident, but this time, they don't meet. But meet, they do again in Children of the Jedi, where Mara also meets Callista. Then we have the infamous encounter in Dark Saber, where Mara and Callista eat lunch together - probably the only scene I love in KJA's writing - then again, it's kriffing brilliant!!! Anywa, all of this is in years 11 and 12 ABY - then follows a loong break until The New Rebellion in 16 ABY, and again the Corellian Crisis Trilogy which takes place as late as 18 ABY.

What we need is more flesh in this time period! No doubt Luke and Mara must have met more than this - but all we have to indicate it, is a snippet from Jedi versus Sith where Mara also visits Yavin IV, indicating she indeed came on and off.

Agreed. There are a few golden snippets - but in general, it's pretty lukewarm. Definitely not my take on these two.

Yoy haven't finished you training yet??? Yet you tooke me as apprentice. What is the world becoming to?

We can only guess.

That it does, then again, my suspicin is that some people have had clues for a long time.

You suggest their Force bond made their marraige boring? Naah. I don't buy that

Well, you know, just another day at the office

Ok, folks, RL is calling, so I'll disappear from cyberspace for probably the next two weeks. Take care of the thead while I'm away

 

see that's one thing I don't understand, despite their closeness they don't act how regular newlyweds would be
not really newlyweds anymore. this was three years into the marriage, spending much of it apart. In the NJO series they spend some more time together, and it is much more intimate

 

well three years is still pretty new for a relationship, there is also the added bit in the book where due to their careers they had rare chances of spending time together. As Luke mentions in the book they're still in the fitting in period. They might know each other better due to the Force bond but they're still getting used to each other.

Also I like watching Luke and Mara work together

Well, that might be okay as long as Luke is at least 120, and not 65. I'd still rather have Luke surrounded by friends, family, and Jedi and not alone when he becomes One with the Force though.
you know ironically an old SOS regular posted a similar ending for Luke as well, walking into the binary sunset and becoming a Force spirit at age 120, ironically he had a choice as he became basically a Force god should he stay in the corporeal world but he chose to join his family in the spirit world. The only difference was that Luke's grandson follow him to watch him go. Although Child has a point I would imagine that his family and friends would seem him off.

how about the film starts with a surprise birthday party for Chewie

Our resident Luke and Mara expert ladies and gentlemen I can't imagine they didn't have some type of personal dialogue during the Jedi Academy saga.

Also might I add that Mara also flew Luke around in Dark Saber I believe for a joyride. Luke noticed that she was "showing off" and also Callista notices that Mara had feelings for Luke....the first one to notice. Although Leia knew in TTT that Mara would not kill Luke

flesh ?!??! I think you mean we need more new fresh stories during this timeline ?

hey no bad puns besides I always used the "lukewarm" line.

Psah, I haven't finish my training in comics....in Luke knowledge I am the Master .......................... well mostly

if anything it makes it more interesting

take care apprentice

 

You too? Mara finds that one stupid personally, and why wouldn't she. It's pretty funny coming from Luke himself.

 

Yes, much do you have to learn in the realm of comics! Your Luke knowledge for post-NJO is impressive, DE however remains my specialism!

 

Really Luke used the line in a book, which one ? seems like something he would say to tease Mara with. Ironically I have used the line when describing Luke in the FotJ series and I believe JediMara commented on the pun being dumb....so I guess art imitates life

DE is your domain, no question I say have more of a grasp on SotE and DN...although the latter is a thankless job