Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Yeah, can you imagine the press if they're not hitched?

    Episode 7 presents.... The Solo Bastards!

    (note to the mods: the term bastard being used in its proper connotation)
    MasterSkywalker86 likes this.
  2. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 4
    I agree. I think once Lucas decided marriage was a part of the SW Universe as shown at the end of AotC, marriage applied to Han and Leia.

    This makes me very excited about the ST with Luke as the focus. I said in a thread in the Episode VII forum, sounds a lot like the Return phase of the Hero's Journey.

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  3. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    So, someone want to tell me how the OT doesn't cover that entire Lucas quote?

    EDIT 1: Save for the passing on what you have learned bit the OT has it nailed.

    EDIT 2: Oh and it isn't hard to tell the difference between good and evil, it all comes to conscience and whether you possess one that works.
    Last edited by Jedi Ben, Mar 17, 2013
  4. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 4
    I also wanted to say, I've been in and out of the SOS threads over the years and know how certain novels portray Luke differently from the movies.

    I have faith that Lucas (with Arndt's and Kasdan's help on the script), in writing his alter ego in his 60's, will indeed Save Our Skywalker once and for all.
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  5. T-R- Chosen One

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    Aug 13, 2003
    star 4
    Because the OT was about Luke's journey to be a Jedi, not about Knighthood itself. Also, the part about understanding that good and evil isn't always clear cut.
  6. EmeraldJediFire Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2012
    star 4
    One thing to say about this: Mara Jade

    It might not happen but I'd like it t.
    Last edited by EmeraldJediFire, Mar 17, 2013
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  7. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 4
    Me too. I'd love to see it. And don't forget, Lucas gave the ok to add Mara to the RotJ radio drama.
  8. EmeraldJediFire Jedi Grand Master

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    Feb 23, 2012
    star 4
    You do have a point with that... Mara isn't what I thought she'd sound like..but perhaps that's just because she was playing a persona.
  9. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    How does Luke's dealing with Vader/Anakin not cover that? That is pretty clear that good and evil isn't clear cut, but the properties do exist and a being can always choose between them. It took Anakin a damn long while to make his choice while Luke was getting fried but he did choose correctly.

    Had Luke simply followed his teachers' direction to kill Vader, having deemed him 100% evil, he'd have been killed by the Emperor.
  10. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 4
    Good and evil was clear cut in the OT. Vader and the empire were evil. Luke and the rebels were good.

    I think it's clear that what Lucas is saying is that in the ST the lines won't so clear cut and neat.

    Just because Luke thought there was good in his father, doesn't mean that he didn't believe that good and evil wasn't black and white. That's where the moral and philisophical choices are.

    The ST will have it not be so black and white.

    RW example. The U.S. use of atomic weaponry in WWII. Was it good or evil? It was good because the allies used it to win the war, defeat the axis, and save lives, but was it moral to do so? Was it good?
    Last edited by T-R-, Mar 17, 2013
  11. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Jedi Ben:
    I would have been so much more satisfied if John Ostrander would have let Luke actually be successful in getting through to Cade. I would have liked it more if Luke would have been the catalyst that caused Cade to change. I was also disappointed that even after Cade decided to take out Krayt, it seems that he still gave up the Jedi at the end and selfishly took off to enjoy life. In the end, Luke didn't affect Cade at all.

    Hey, JB! You're a Force Ghost! :(






    JediMatteus:
    I don't want it to be DE or the NJO series. I'd rather see a new, fresh story about Luke and his Jedi Order.








    MasterSkywalker86:
    And most especially, for Luke!!! He certainly should have been able to sense that Mara was injured and in trouble!


    That would be GREAT! It would definitely make more sense for Luke to be the Chosen One rather than Anakin. After all, Anakin was the one who went Sith and DESTROYED. Luke is the one who remained in the Light and rebuilt and restored what Vader and the Emperor had destroyed.


    I really like that comment, MS!

    And isn't that SAD????!!!! Two books out of 19!!!!! That's ridiculous!


    Yes!

    Interesting!

    I've heard that it focuses more on Leia than Luke. I think I heard that Leia started an X-wing group or something like that... That really doesn't make all that much sense to me. Leia didn't seem like a pilot in the films. In fact, if she was a pilot, why didn't she go out with the others to face the death Star? It was a life or death situation and every pilot was needed. Besides, when would she have practiced piloting? She was a Princess and a Senator. Luke should have been the only pilot in the family, at least at that time. I'm not really thrilled about that. Why should Leia get to do everything? It kind of makes Luke look like the "loser" twin. Luke should have some talents that Leia doesn't. After all, she has talents in diplomacy and politics that Luke doesn't.








    T-R-
    Thanks for posting all of that, TR!!! I hope that Lucas doesn't change his mind and that Luke WILL play a major role in the ST. I especially hope that the one above abotu Luke having a romantic relationship will come to pass. I REALLY, REALLY want Luke to have a family!







    MasterSkywalker86:
    I think we will see Han and Leia married. I hope Luke will be also. Lucas may not have decided whether or not people married in that galaxy far, far away back in 1983, but we now know that he decided to include marriage in his SW galaxy, as we even saw Anakin and Padme get married.


    More another time...
  12. EmeraldJediFire Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2012
    star 4
    Personally, even though yes I was a tad disappointed (just a tad) I'm glad we have a Skywalker being an individual. It shows they don't all have to be Jedi... I like Cade better this way because he's different.
  13. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    While Leia is indeed flying an X-men she is more playing leader than playing ace-pilot. For the sake of the story, I don't mind her climbing into the cockpit. Maybe she learned a little about flying on Alderaan.

    Leia so far has been often ignored in the EU and anything that focuses on her inner conflicts is good imo. I like how torn she is in Brian Woods comics, how heavy duty and responsibility weigh on her. Maybe later Luke will help her by taking on some responsibility himself.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Mar 18, 2013
  14. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    If Luke had really thought good and evil were clear-cut, he'd have slaughtered Vader and Sidious using any method, because they're bad so it's good that he kills them right? Except there is the dark side waiting to pounce if you do use the wrong methods. I know it's been an in-vogue thing for the last 15 or so years in pop culture to act as if good/evil don't exist or if they do they're relative or that it's so hard to know the difference, but on the whole, it generally isn't save for a quite specific set of recurring hard cases that there is, as yet, no perfect answer to.

    As to the reality of war or hard moral dilemmas, SW tends not to go into that territory and with good reason. NJO could easily have done so with the final assault on Coruscant but deliberately chose not to. Fact is we have no shortage of pilots being immolated, masses of people being killed, lots of hurt, pain and destruction - no one in their right mind is going to watch a SW film and think: War's cool!

    (There is a fair amount of evidence though for the use of atomic weaponry as the least overall bloody option for WW2 for both US and Japanese lives! On a utilitarian basis, that does render it a good option. Of course, if you're waging war at all, generally all the good options are already off the table!)

    It's the rank beyond Jedi Grand Master!

    As to Cade, I don't buy that he would have been able to change for the better without Luke's encouragement, Cade's problem, to a very large degree, was that he did not feel up to the job he was being asked to do, nor did he really believe he could do it without screwing it up by falling to the dark side. That's Luke's contribution right there!

    I, personally, think by taking out Darth Krayt, a genocidal maniac who would, if permitted full reign, been every bit the equal of Darth Sidious, is more than sufficient service for a lifetime. It's akin to a soldier in WW2, who's job was done with the VE day announcement, for which there is a quite famous cartoon:

    [IMG]

  15. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    Luminous beings are we not this crude matter, you must unlearn what you have learn. :p


    exactly...fingers crossed that we get to see that come to fruition. Luke in OT is basically the Chosen One in all but name. I think that's why he's refer to the New Hope aka Chosen One 2.0, a similar moniker and he basically undoes the damage his father did.

    and it's a fact :)

    exactly.....ironically it took one book for Luke to end the war lol :p


    actually Leia has experience in flying ships.....just not flying in armed combat. While I'm sure she flies well nothing has ever been suggested that she was an ace pilot or a natural pilot. Diplomatic skills in mediating is what makes her a prime candiate for a jedi consular. I figure in ANH she probably thinks she would be more a help from the tactical center then in the air.


    I think it's a given too that they're married now after PT.
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  16. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    T-R-:
    That would be great if that happened.

    They certainly have, especially from the NJO onwards!

    I truly hope that you're right, TR!


    It definitely wasn't about the Knighthood! Luke was the ONLY Jedi knight once Yoda and Ben were gone... and Luke wasn't even a knight until the very end of RotJ.

    I'm hoping that in the ST we'll find that Luke and the students that he and his own students taught will be the ONLY Jedi in the galaxy. I don't want to find that a bunch of Old Jedi Order Jedi managed to survive (like K'kruhk) as we have gotten in the EU. Old Jedi Order Jedi sometime seem to be popping up everywhere! Yoda told Luke that HE would be the LAST of the Jedi when Yoda died... until that is, Luke trained new Jedi himself. I want to see the ST follow what Yoda said!

    TR, I hope you won't mind that I'm pasting one of your comments from one of the threads in the Episode VII forum below. You said:

    Luke didn't fall in DE, TR. Even Leland Chee in the Luke Omnibus said that Luke only "nearly" gave in to the dark side. Luke was like an undercover agent. He was helping the Alliance by sending them imperial codes and by destroying Imperial ships and property and sabotaging imperial plans. I think Luke was foolish to go to Byss to try to defeat the Emperor alone by learning about the dark side, but he never gave in to the dark and he didn't commit any evil acts. In fact, in DE it says that the more Luke read about the darkside from the Emperor's books, the more he was repulsed by it.

    After being defeated by the last clone of the Emperor, Luke did almost get lost in despair that he would ever be able to defeat the Emperor or get away from him, but as soon as Leia told him that Luke would train her children, that was enough to renew his hope and he was able to act. Together, he and Leia were able to defeat the Emperor with the wall of Light.






    EmeraldJediFire:

    I'd like that too!







    T-R-:
    That's a good point!





    More tomorrow...
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  17. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 4
    Don't mind at all, and thanks for the clarification. It's been a while since I read the comic series, looks like I'll have to dust it off again.

    I do think the general impression is that Luke turned as even the Wook says "The newly resurrected Palpatine scoffed at Luke's attempts to vanquish him. When Luke attempted to subdue Palpatine, the Sith Lord seized one of the lightsabers he kept stored in the lab and engaged Luke. Despite his valiant efforts, Luke was disarmed and held at blade-point. Palpatine proceeded to complete Skywalker's turn to the dark side, reducing him to an obedient watchdog."
  18. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    And more than a few novels in which Luke says "I went over to the dark side".

    As late as Fate of the Jedi: Ascension, we have (when discussing Vestara) Jaina saying to Luke "You know, there are people saying you weren't, and can't be, redeemed. Or Aunt Mara, or Vader..."
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Mar 19, 2013
  19. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4

    And we know how well FotJ is a stickler for following continuity with what hiring a genocidial lunatic as president and waving her crimes away.
    Also in VotF Mara was confirmed to never have fallen to the DS, rather she was a soldier who believe she was doing her part in protecting the galaxy.

    Perhaps Jaina's quote in context is used as her opinion than outright fact

    As much I like using wook for a resource, it's still maintained by the fans and there are entries that aren't properly cited
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Mar 19, 2013
  20. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Darth_Pevra:
    Well, I don't think she was ignored that much in the Bantam books. She was even the CoS, after all. I agree that she hasn't been given all that much to do in the Del Rey books, but then neither has Luke really.

    I certainly don't mind having stories that focus on Leia and her inner conflicts, but I really don't like the idea of her being an x-wing pilot. As I said, she was a senator and a princess and a rebel leader during the Rebellion era. Luke was pretty much only a pilot. I don't see why they had to also make Leia a pilot. Let her be the main character in the new SW comics, if they want, but I don't think having her be an X-wing pilot was a good choice. Couldn't Luke be allowed to be/do ONE thing that Leia didn't at that time? As I said, it makes it look like Luke was the "loser twin" who didn't have anything special about him, while Leia was three things that Luke wasn't: a Princess, a diplomat, and a leader of the rebellion. Later, she became Chief of State and a Jedi. Why push her into the role of a starfighter pilot too?







    Jedi Ben:
    Then why did he treat Luke so disrespectfully? Why did he threaten that he would commit suicide if Luke didn't leave? Why did he pretty much never do what Luke wanted him to do?

    How so?








    MasterSkywalker86:
    Let's hope Luke gets some screentime recognition for that!

    So why have her start an X-wing group??? Why not Luke instead?








    T-R-:
    Remember that the Wook isn't written by official sources. Pretty much anyone can post to the Wook. But I do feel that the comic wasn't written clearly enough, and that's why quite a few fans and even some authors seem to get the impression that Luke fell.

    But how could he fall to the darkside if he didn't commit any evil acts? And if he fell to the darkside, how could he so quickly and easily return to the Light? Leia didn't have to do anything. She simply told Luke that he would train her children, and magically, Luke was fine and was able to act against the Emperor.

    Plus, there's the confirmation by Leeland Chee that Luke DIDN'T fall to the dark side. As Chee said, Luke... "nearly gave in to the dark side after his defeat." (by the Emperor).







    Iron_lord:
    Luke has ALWAYS been hard on himself, and probably does regret that he chose to even learn about the dark side in order to try to defeat the Emperor. Plus, he also said in VotF when Mara blasted him for going to Byss, "But I didn't fall to the dark side".


    As MS says, FotJ wasn't exactly the best series continuity-wise. (or any other way actuallyl!) And Jaina of all people shouldn't have been "throwing stones". She had her own darkside adventure, and she certainly did far worse things during her little walk on the darkside than Luke did. (Luke actually didn't even commit any evil acts! Not much of a darksider, if you ask me!) If Jaina really felt that Luke fell to the darkside, then Jaina fell even farther!

    I can believe that people might say that Vader couldn't be redeemed because he spent 25 years terrorizing the galaxy and committing terrible crimes. But Luke DIDN't commit crimes or do evil acts. He never even fell to the darkside. How is it that he "can't be redeemed" if he didn't commit any evil acts????








    MasterSkywalker86:
    Exactly!

    I think it's sometimes forgotten that even though it's a resource, the Wook is an imperfect, flawed resource. As you said, it's maintained by fans and fans aren't always right.
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  21. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Hm, I personally hope the Chosen One prophecy never gets mentioned. Imo it was ill-conceived and what really counts should be the acts of a person not some "grand destiny". Luke did what he did out of free choice - its what makes it special.

    Well, I don't like the idea much either. But I'm willing to overlook is as I doubt we'll ever see Leia fly X-wings again outside of the Star Wars series.

    What Brian Wood did was giving her that role out of the blue so that he could group Luke and Leia together in a "phantom X-wing squad". The constraints of the story made him do it. Was there some more elegant way to bring them together? Perhaps. But I can still sympathize. Sometimes plot must come before logic.

    By the way I think Luke is far from being the loser child in the OT. Luke is the one who receives Jedi training, not Leia, and he is a prodigy when it comes to the force.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Mar 20, 2013
  22. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 4
    Thanks again. If he didn't fall, why would he need coaxing back by Leia? Why would he even hesitate? The fact that the comic leaves questions like this is one reason I can't wait for the ST to supplant most of the EU.
  23. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Possibly, by experimenting with the dark side at all. Once used, no matter how good the intention, the person is permanently "tainted" in that philosophy.

    I think the Wook actually copied language about Palpatine "turning" Luke, from wording in the original Essential Character Guide.
  24. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    So people think LUCAS can help save Luke Skywalker??? He sure did not make the universe better with Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones. I also think the Clone Wars tv show is less than great. Lucas has not been on his game in decades. It's not going to get better, We have to depend on Disney to save Luke, but sadly i don't think he is a focus for them. Just the kids and grandkids
  25. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    As far as I'm concerned it's down to Luke that Cade does anything about Krayt and avoids falling to the dark side in the process. Without him? Cade wallows in despair and self-loathing and Krayt wins.

    If you have a person without a positive self-image they can easily rip themselves to pieces on a regular basis, but in SW that same position for a Force-user or Jedi, will open them to the dark side quite easily. That's what Luke helped Cade to avoid but it isn't an easy process. It may be said those who are confident fail to understand how anyone could lack confidence, or mask its lack with empty bravado.

    You've answered your own Q to a degree with the hesitation. DE is built around the nature of the dark side being primarily coercive in nature, it attempts to explain Vader's statement that he must obey his master.

    It may attempt to obtain souls willingly, but more often than not it works as a Faustian bargain, often undeclared and once it has you, you can be coerced further into it by sheer force. That's why Luke looks like a zombie on Eclipse, he practically is.

    Yet, given what we see Leia do in DE, it makes it much clearer why in ROTS and ROTJ, the Emperor wants Anakin and Luke isolated. Just 1 Jedi seriously karks up the plan!