Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Ben, Mar 22, 2008.

  1. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    wasn't that Luceno's ?

    as for Anakin appearing to Leia and Jacen, is there a reason why he didn't appear to Luke after RotJ ? I mean he never really got to know the kid aside of craving his power.
  2. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Easily his worst book, yeah.
  3. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    ironic, as I thought he did a decent job with post mortem grieving Han in the first Agent of Chaos book.

    anywho @Jedi Ben any idea why Anakin didn't appear to Luke more often ? I get that Luke has already forgiven him but you think that Anakin would spend time getting to know his son
  4. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Nope, on that.... I got nothin'.
  5. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    funny I thought you Force ghosts knew everything :p
    kataja likes this.
  6. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    I diagree with most of Child's beliefs on Luke being "darkish" in LOTF and FOTJ. Luke was the picture of the lightside most of the time, especially in FOTJ. How many times did luke soak in the lightside for power, or for perspective. I remember this often in FOTJ espcially in Vortex and Conviction and his treatment of Vestara in Ascension. I know some had a problem with Luke in Backlash. Because he sent rocks on a force stream to kill nightsisters. he had trouble locating them in the force whenever he got near. This was really his only option. Nightsisters are evil and deserve to die. No prob with it at all. Now in LOTF Luke was in major danger of the dark side for venegeance killing Lumiya. This was the one main time that i agree that Luke was darkish. But i felt he great through most of FOTJ.
    MasterSkywalker86 likes this.
  7. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Iron_lord:
    Well, since Luke didn't kill innocents, even if he HAD fallen, he would have been redeemed. But it has already been confirmed that he didn't fall.







    MasterSkywalker86:
    That's a great point, MS. George Lucas certainly gave the impression that Luke redeemed his father.
    Otherwise, why keep having Luke say that he "felt the good in him"? And if one never read the novelization and only saw the film, it was clear (to me, at least!) that the audience was expected to believe that Anakin *was* redeemed. Not only did we see Anakin beaming in the afterlife, but we saw Yoda and Ben pretty pleased too. If Anakin was still a darkside Sith, would they have been so happy?

    Right!






    Iron_lord:
    He didn't. In fact, he stopped some of the deaths that Palpatine set in motion when he sent those Devastators out. Luke sabotaged the Devastators; saving many lives. He also gave orders that resulted in Imperial losses and Alliance wins. At one point, someone said (I think it was Lando) that it seemed that the one in charge of the Imperial Forces wanted to lose... and then the comic book narrator said that he actually did, as that leader was Luke Skywalker. He was trying to help the Alliance from behind enemy lines. Luke was like an undercover agent.







    MasterSkywalker86:
    And, as I said, Luke was doing his best to sabotage Imperial plans and destroy Imperial ships/devastators, and to help the Alliance.







    Jedi Ben:
    But now do you understand why I am so annoyed about DE, JB??? :(

    I completely agree! Some of them turned Luke's victory over Palpatine and the dark side in DE and made it seem like a defeat and something some fans feel Luke should be ashamed of and condemned for. :mad:






    Iron_lord:
    Very possibly. You could very well be right.







    MasterSkywalker86:
    You're right. Luke has always been hard on himself. However, I don't know that it was a mistake to try to defeat the Emperor. What was Luke supposed to do? Let Palpatine continue to kill and destroy? I think it was more that his mistake was trying to do it alone.



    More another time....
  8. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    exactly, the quote pretty much just wants to contradicts G-canon which is a no-no ;)


    agreed, he sabotaged the world devastors, gave R2 the master codes to the World Devastors. Lando and Wedge recognize that from watching the battle.


    I more or less understand your frustration ;)



    agreed, as you mention what else Luke could have done ? His con game did pay off in the end saving the day with the knowledge of the Force storm.
    Jedi Ben likes this.
  9. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Unlike you COW, I place the blame on the writers of the other stories and the readers - DE is a pretty simple story. There's very little to misunderstand.
    MasterSkywalker86 likes this.
  10. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Same here. In FOTJ I actually think he was grounded in the light beyond belief. But also in FOTJ, I found him mature and reliable, save the writers (mainly Traviss) didn't give the stability to his family life as I'd hoped. And I still don't see his killing of Lumya as a 'vengeancce' killing. He lost his judgement, not his head IMO.

    Finally got it! Yeah, so far Leia's definitely in focus. I like how
    SPOILS! (open)
    they put Leia's attitude in perspective to recent events! She is stressed and streched over far, far too much, but holding together by sheer willpower. And Luke is sweet, but oh, so young, headstrong and unused to military. And his girl? Hard to say yet. Could be a spy - then again, it migth be too obvious? At any rate we know the relationship will end pretty quickly. But I like that he can manage a girl with so much edge this early. Very much looking forward to next issue!
    Show Spoiler
    Last edited by kataja, Mar 23, 2013
    MasterSkywalker86 likes this.
  11. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    I'll third that for FotJ, Luke didn't act dark at all and probably acted the most consistent of NJO, DN, LOTF, & FOTJ. The problem is the series wasn't handle well. LotF, while I like Betrayal and Inferno for Luke's portrayal, the rest of the books are basically padded to continue the story for an unnecessary 9 books to reach the disappointing conclusion of Invincible. The series could have been a trilogy easily. Luke is portrayed as dark in the final book despite him not doing anything dark(Denning found a way). Also Sacrifice left it questionable of Luke's actions against Lumiya despite me agreeing with them.


    As for Brian Wood's story:

    Thanks for keeping me posted, please let us know more about Luke's portrayal and his gf ;)
  12. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Is he, now? I mean, Denning had to comment Luke's actions in Sacrifice? Actually, the whole point with them were a erason to keep Luke out of the final duel with Jacen - but with Luke remaining in the light - aware himself that facing his wife's murderer in a duel was too much even for a Jedi Master. What I think, is that all those white eyes theories circulating on these boards, have had people percieving him darker than he's actually written. And, yeah, you can blame Denning for sprinkling insinuations here and there - but no one knows if the way they've been interpreted here is what he intended. That's the nature of visions and likes - they're open to interpretation.

    I will ;)
  13. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Yep, same here - SWood, as it has been dubbed, is on the to-buy TPB list anyway, but be good to know it's definitely worth getting.
  14. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    I'm mostly alluding to the white eyes symbolism, which drives me nuts. The fact that Denning brought it up in the first place brings up an unnecessary ambitious grey view to Luke to new fans. The fact we had hundreds of fans that believed Luke was the Dark Man til now is proof that it has already influence the newer fans of EU. We don't need to make the hero dark, we need to have him stay in the light.


    And thank you apprentice for keeping us in the know ;)
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Mar 23, 2013
  15. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I can only think of an out of universe reason: Many OT fans dislike PT Anakin and maybe that's why he wasn't featured much in post-ROTJ-EU. Another possible reason could be that the authors dislike Anakin.

    Personally I hope for some Anakin-Luke interaction in the ST. If well done, it could be fascinating. I expect Anakin after all he went through to be a very pragmatic and down to earth good guy, someone who doesn't cling to romantic notions much. On the other hand he might try to find back to the Jedi school of thought with its high ideals and principles. While Luke could help him understand the idealistic point of view, Anakin could tell his son very much about the dark side. Please Arndt give us some of that! ^:)^
  16. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    the thing is though, most of Bantam's run was when the PT wasn't even a pipe dream in GL's eye. So I wonder if GL gave specifics to the Publisher to not to touch anymore scenes between Luke and Anakin. Though I was hoping for some followup, as I would expect Anakin to tell he's proud of his son who undid the damage he did to the galaxy.

    much agreed, although at this point I could take the lack of Anakin conversing with Luke as a sign that Luke knows as much as he needs to, especially after hanging with Sidious
  17. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    First of all, just a quick correction: I see that I did say in a comment to Darth Pevra that Luke was cold and darkish in DN and FotJ. That was an error. I MEANT to say that Luke was written as cold and darkish in DN and in LotF. He wasn't portrayed as cold in FotJ. He seemed a little more himself, though I can't say that Luke accomplished all that much in that series.



    Iron_lord:
    Sounds like something Mara would say! ;)

    Many things had been tried and failed before Luke tried to defeat the Emperor from behind enemy lines. Luke needed to do something. What he did was very risky and very courageous. I think going alone was the biggest problem. Working with Leia, everything ended up fine. As JB said, it was really a huge victory.

    That's very possible. It was certainly KJA's fault for including DE in the novels. Until that point, comic book events were not included in the book continuity. In fact, since I wasn't into comic books, I was shocked when it was mentioned in the Jedi Academy trilogy that Luke had faced the Emperor again. I thought I had missed a novel. It took quite a while for me to find that this was referencing an event from a comic.







    MasterSkywalker86:
    That's a good point, MS!

    I agree. It made no sense at all that Luke wouldn't be more concerned and watchful.








    Iron_lord:
    I was disappointed that Luke, "the great Redeemer", didn't give Vestara more of a chance at the beginning. However, after he DID decide to believe in her, she ended up proving that he was right to be wary about her. She betrayed him, Ben, and the others, almost causing Allana's death.








    Jedi Ben:
    Sadly, many people don't seem to see it that way. They seem to think of it as Luke's biggest mistake.


    Which was really a very brave, selfless thing to do.







    Darth_Pevra:
    That sounds promising. I need to read this!


    I completely agree!


    And the super-secret group had to be an X-wing squadron???







    :
    I agree. Plus, Luke's experience in DE brought him to the realization that the Jedi *were* needed to stand against darkness. He also came to the realization that he couldn't do everything alone. So the events of DE made Luke decide to restore the Jedi Order and start the Jedi Academy. So it had another good result.



    More another time....
  18. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I don't know why it had to be X-wings and not another shiptype but they were also looking for a new secret base fpr the rebellion. The traitor in the rebellion of course shouldn't be in the know about the new planet so Leia only reports to Mon Mothma.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Mar 24, 2013
  19. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 4
    Personally, I hope not. Not unless they find a way to digitize Shaw. No need to see a 60-something year old Luke conversing with his 20-something year old dad. Talk about breaking the magic and taking you out of story.

    Personally, I'd like the ST to be free of Anakin, Yoda, and Ben. The shot at the end of RotJ is the perfect way to end their story, signaling that it's Luke's story now.
    kataja and MasterSkywalker86 like this.
  20. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    agreed and it should have been treated as a major victory over the DS, like the end of RotJ. Luke conquered Palpatine like how his father was suppose to do.

    I wouldn't say it was his "fault" for including the events of DE in book continuity, but I think he's directly to blame for the misinterpretation of the events during DE. It's like he read the synopsis of the comic without actually reading the actual comic.Also mind controlled to be lost in the DS should have a stronger emphasis that it's different than falling to the DS by one's free will. The same argument could be made for Kyp and Mara. Also I feel KJA never understood Luke in his writings, in JAT he felt too passive, too much of a sage/saint. His personality did not show much. IIRC the interview that either Jedi Mara or Kataja brought over here demonstrates this as KJA felt Luke should be asexual....er what ???!??!


    especially after a fight with a rage enhanced Gantoris.


    I actually agree with him, but the way he was written for his initial decision could have better flesh out.Most of us felt that Luke seem to forgotten his own experiences with redeeming people. But the fact that Vestara was born and raised as Sith is a good reason to be hesitant.

    yes
  21. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Agreed. Also the fact that his own son (with easily affected teen emotions) was at stake, was a good reason for him to be more wary than otherwise. I can see on mysefl i RL, how I'm more hesitant when my son shows sides I can reconize from myself, that can be a weakness as well as a strength. It's simple experience and parental love.
    MasterSkywalker86 likes this.
  22. Auditor Dredd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    good point K, the fact that Ben's hormones were working against him at this stage of his life is even more reason for Luke to be cautious. Luke while he still retains hope, he knows that first loves hardly ever work out, and it's very rare that Vestara would stop being evil even for the sake of Ben.

    The fact that both Jaina and Vestara used Mara as a reason for Luke to trust her actually proves the opposite. Mara was a special case who wasn't corrupted/fallen the DS despite her using Palpatine's abilities as a power source. The fact she was one of the few that believe the Empire stood for justice is a reason why she wasn't evil. Vestara more or less had an understanding of what she was doing, but laments that she couldn't change despite that knowledge.
    Last edited by MasterSkywalker86, Mar 24, 2013
    kataja likes this.
  23. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    MasterSkywalker86 :
    I'd like to keep some things, but in order to get rid of some of the terrible stuff that we've gotten in the EU, especially in the last few series, I'm willing to let go of all of it. I just hope that Luke will have a family; will have restored the Jedi Order; and will be respected and beloved by the people of the galaxy. Then I will be satisfied.


    Definitely. That was true of DN, LotF, and even some of FotJ.


    See? Nothing evil about that, and that was the worst thing Luke did in DE. So why so many people seem to think that Luke fell to the dark side in it is really baffling!

    I would have preferred that too, but if too many people knew about it, than the Imperials would be more likely to find out too. Plus, not having Han and Leia know about the plan made it seem more authentic. Han's reaction to Luke being on Byss and "serving Palpatine", for example, certainly would have made Palpatine and other Imperials who viewed their interaction believe that Luke really was "changing sides". Luke was a good actor; a good con man; a good undercover agent who didn't give away his cover.







    Skaddix :
    While I understand what you're saying and can agree that it doesn't seem quite fair, I also believe that it *is* possible for "deathbed confessions" and conversions to occur in real life, so I believe that Anakin could be redeemed by helping Luke. However, I like to think that he has to do some "good deeds" in the afterlife in order to make up for the evil that he did, sort of like a purgatory.








    Jedi Ben:
    Yes, I like the idea of atonement, You could also be right that it was especially important for Anakin to save Luke because Luke would eventually be responsible for saving countless future lives.









    MasterSkywalker86:
    Yes, and they realized that the one in charge didn't want to win. He was helping the Alliance.


    Thanks!

    Exactly!!! And would Luke have known how to counter the Force Storm if he hadn't read the Emperor's books?








    kataja:
    Sorry! I didn't type what my brain was thinking! I agree that Luke was characterized a little better in FotJ. It was DN and LotF where I found Luke to be portrayed as rather cold and "darkish".


    If it wasn't a vengeance killing, why would Luke worry about facing Jacen? The authors purposely put that vengeance killing in Sacrifice to keep Luke and Jacen from facing off so the Solo twins could have that final duel. There were some things in those scenes that screamed Vengeance killing. For example, when it looked to Luke like Lumiya was going to do a suicide run in her ship before they had the duel, Luke said something like, "No, you don't get off that easy. You're MINE." He didn't just want her to die. He wanted to kill her himself. I think Luke even said something like "an eye for an eye" when he was discussing it with Ben before he found out that Lumiya hadn't killed Mara.








    MasterSkywalker86:
    I agree. Denning did pretty much the same thing to Luke in TG, even though Luke was only in that book for about two pages! :(








    Darth_Pevra:
    I actually hope that we don't see any more of Anakin or Darth Vader. I feel that his arc concluded in episode VI. This is Luke's time now and that of his offspring and Leia's. I wasn't happy about the change of Haydn Christianson for Shaw in the first place in RotJ . It made no sense to have this 20 something Daddy showing up as a Force ghost. And he didn't even look at Luke or give Luke the smile of fatherly pride that Shaw gave in the original version. To have a younger Anakin interacting with a 60-something Luke would be quite jarring and unsatisfying, I think. Sadly, I really fear that they will somehow try to push Vader into the ST because he is considered so iconic. But I think that would be a disaster for the future films.

    And Luke should be a Jedi Master in the ST. Why would he need any advice from dear old dad???









    T-R-:
    You and I think very much alike about this!!!! I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who feels this way!!!!

    I completely agree!






    MasterSkywalker86 :
    Exactly!


    That's entirely possible.

    You're right. KJA didn't seem to "get" the character.
  24. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I didn't like the switch either. It's wrong on many levels. But if Christensen appears in the ST that means there was at least a good reason for that exchange.

    For your other points, two things:
    1) Anakin Skywalker is an important part of the saga and we don't even know what type of person he is now. Sure, he's good, but what else? Also there is a lot of unfinished business with his children. He tortured his own daughter on the Death Star.

    2) Luke doesn't know and will never know as much about Sith as Anakin does (most of the EU will quite probably be ignored for the ST, including DE). The reappearance of the Sith in the ST will be a huge thing as they were extinct after ROTJ. It's simply smart of Luke to give dear ol' dad a phone call and ask him how this could happen.

    But yes, I give you that interaction between Luke and Anakin would be a bit weird. On the other hand ghosts are supposed to be a bit weird. A five minute scene that also serves as exposition (how did the Sith return?) would suffice.
  25. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Valid points @Darth_Pevra. But why would they 'wait' as long as the ST to interact - assuming it's Hamill playing Luke and he's in his 60'ies? I mean, there's a lot of stuff I'd like to see happen, but I'm not sure they should be shown in the ST. Instead we should get the storyies og what happens between the OT and the ST at some point.

    Exactly. And being the most forgiving guy in the galaxy, Luke would still learn from what could have been mistakes.

    Well, we've argued about this before, but I guess it all comes down to what you put into the word 'vengeance killing'. My point is that Luke wasn't filled with rage and didn't enjoy to kill Lumiya. I see it like he went for a grim justice - and indeed 'an eye for an eye' is a law practice in many cultures. But what happened, is that while he thought he had his path clear (the desicion to kill Lumiya taken already books before) and saw himself more execitioner than anything else, he by learning he'd killed the wrong person, realized he hadn't been as clear in his emotions as he'd thought. I think he was in complete control of his emotions in the duel and in the killing, but his judgement had still been clouded by Mara's death - and thus he realized how much control it really required. That was why he looked into visions to see how things would develop if he went after Jacen himself. And as he found out none of this futures would turn out well, he gave the task to someone else.

    And of course it was a set up from the authors! But so what?
    Last edited by kataja, Mar 25, 2013